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Guus
Can someone provide me with a temporary test account on a public server that has a certificate chain longer than two certificates please?
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Ge0rG
does let's encrypt count?
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Guus
My Let'sEncrypt cert has no intermediate certs in the chain
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Guus
(so: no?)
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Ge0rG
if only we had xmpp.net
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Zash
Pretty sure it has one intermediate
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Guus
Then my count is off somewhere, checking...
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Zash
If only Let's Encrypt had any competition left
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Guus
ah, the chain that I am looking at doesn't include the CA cert
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Guus
that's why I thought it didn't have an intermediate. My bad. Thanks Zash
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Holger
Guus: So you no longer need an account? (Otherwise I could give you one with two intermediates.)
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Guus
Holger, please do
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Guus
a check for more than one is always interesting.
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lovetox
hm about the council discussion
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lovetox
delay on subject is the edit date on the subject or not?
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lovetox
or am i misremembering that
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lovetox
for the idea to add it to MAM
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lovetox
yeah, just note that it can only be in MAM
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lovetox
it can not be part of the MUC history
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lovetox
which is kind of weird, but i guess nobody wants to use MUC History anyway
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lovetox
whats also weird is
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lovetox
https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0045.html#subject-mod
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lovetox
As explained under , when a new occupant joins the room the room SHOULD include the last subject change after the discussion history.✎ -
lovetox
> As explained under , when a new occupant joins the room the room SHOULD include the last subject change after the discussion history. ✏
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lovetox
SHOULD is wrong here in my opinion
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lovetox
there is https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0045.html#order
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lovetox
and its a MUST
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Ge0rG
lovetox: MAM doesn't solve the problem of seamlessly switching between history and live messages.
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Ge0rG
I never understood why I'm the only one bothered by that
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lovetox
why not?
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lovetox
with deduplicating this works fine
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Ge0rG
It's an ugly hack.
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Ge0rG
And you need MUC history for the dedup
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lovetox
Ge0rG, i think its a very low priority problem
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lovetox
literally never seen a issue regarding that
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Ge0rG
Or you need to fill the gap after receiving the first message after you joined.
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Ge0rG
lovetox: you don't see the issue because it's a race condition that's not happening often, and users are used to xmpp losing messages
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lovetox
im not sure i see the problem, i join i request 0 history
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lovetox
i receive a live message
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Ge0rG
When do you fetch MAM?
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lovetox
i request MAM, and sort all messages into my chat view according to the timestamp and order i receive from MAM
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Ge0rG
But when do you request it?
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lovetox
after successful join
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lovetox
after the subject
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Ge0rG
And you request everything after the last message you had in MAM before starting the join?
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lovetox
no
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lovetox
join -> receive subject -> request MAM
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Ge0rG
Request MAM with which parameters?
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lovetox
the last stanza id i received, of course between receive subject and MAM request finished, i dont record ids
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lovetox
and the last mam page gives me all the live messages received while i fetched mam
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lovetox
so its fine at the end
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Ge0rG
That sounds a bit racy
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lovetox
this would need to be answered by a server dev
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Holger
It's definitely racy 🙂
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lovetox
i dont see it
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Holger
Making this non-racy would require some cluster-wide locks server-side.
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lovetox
i receive the last mam page with the last message then i record that stanza id
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lovetox
at that moment im definitly fine
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Holger
Well maybe I misunderstood. What I understood was: You issue a MAM-request, wait for the response, and effectively throw away any live messages received while you're waiting for the MAM response to be completed, right?
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lovetox
no
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lovetox
no message is dropped
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Ge0rG
That's also what I understood
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lovetox
no i don’t record ids
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Holger
Them I misunderstood "of course between receive subject and MAM request finished, i dont record ids".
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lovetox
normally when a live message comes in
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lovetox
you have to record the id
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lovetox
this is now your last stanza -id
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Ge0rG
What does it mean?
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lovetox
for your next mam request in the future
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Ge0rG
Ah.
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Holger
So while MAM is in action, you process both the MAM response and the live messages, and you de-dup.
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lovetox
yes
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lovetox
the not recording ids of live messages while a mam fetch is in progress is for stuff like
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Ge0rG
So worst case is that you'll request more messages from MAM if the join was aborted
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lovetox
when the mam requests aborts in the middle or something like that
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lovetox
yes
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Ge0rG
But you do record the stanza IDs of the MAM results?
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lovetox
of course
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lovetox
point is, as long as im not receiving a complete=true with stanza id
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lovetox
i display all live messages, but i dont record stanza-ids
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lovetox
when im in sync (complete=true) every muc messges moves the last-stanza-id
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Ge0rG
Somebody should write down all these dirty tricks
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emus
! I told you guys we need a "Did you know?" section in the XMPP Newsletter
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Ge0rG
Like using MAM to apply stanza IDs to your previously sent messages, or when to advance the last ID
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Ge0rG
emus: we need those sections in the XEPs
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Ge0rG
Which is actually sad.
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emus
Sure