XSF Discussion - 2020-11-03

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  206. Seve

    XEP-0367: Message Attaching https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0367.html XEP-0422: Message Fastening https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0422.html Has been there any discussion regarding the similarities of these two?

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  209. jonas’


  210. jonas’

    a lot

  211. jonas’

    well, not a lot, but a bit

  212. jonas’

    here’s the thread: https://mail.jabber.org/pipermail/standards/2019-September/036421.html

  213. Seve

    jonas’ Thank you ❤

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  252. jubalh

    Does anyone know whether there were any plans to bring XMPP to KaiOS? I'm not sure about the limitations of the OS

  253. Zash

    FirefoxOS fork? Any web client should work then

  254. jubalh

    so that means like open a browser and use it there? so no push notifications, right?

  255. Daniel

    Doesn't it support web push?

  256. Daniel

    Even if web push hasn't been implemented in your favorite web client yet it should be fairly easy to retrofit

  257. jubalh

    maybe i should get such a phone and try it ou

  258. jubalh

    maybe i should get such a phone and try it out

  259. jubalh

    my smartphone just died :/

  260. Daniel

    What's the appeal of KaiOS?

  261. Daniel

    Aside from being the operating system of one fairly cheap phone in India

  262. Daniel

    Aside from being the operating system of _one_ fairly cheap phone in India

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  264. jubalh

    It's not KaiOS per se that interests me. More like getting a more durable phone that isnt too expensive

  265. jubalh

    I'm thinking about Nokia 800 Tough or Hammer 5

  266. jubalh

    But I would need XMPP for sure

  267. jubalh

    And not running android would have the downside of not being able to use the DB App and Audible

  268. jubalh

    Otherwise the simplye thing would probably be fine

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  272. Zash

    I have a FirefoxOS device in a drawer somewhere.

  273. Zash

    It was cheap. It feels cheap. But you could easily package webapps for it iirc.

  274. jubalh

    thats good to hear :)

  275. Link Mauve

    jubalh, I recently bought a PinePhone, still waiting to receive it.

  276. Link Mauve

    Dino is an obvious client to run there.

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  279. Link Mauve

    I’ve never tested Android for more than a few minutes on someone else’s phone, so I wouldn’t miss its applications.

  280. jubalh

    Link Mauve: right, that would also be interesting from a foss perspective and i'm interested in buiding gtk apps myself to run on the phone. but not as durable as i'm looking for :)

  281. jubalh

    Link Mauve: so what kind of phones did you use so far if not android?

  282. Link Mauve

    jubalh, my first smartphone was the OpenMoko FreeRunner, in 2008, I’ve kept it ever since but with the battery pretty much dead I haven’t used it much in the last years.

  283. inky

    pinephone is amazing, contgraturalions.

  284. Link Mauve

    Then two years ago my mother gave me a 15€ dumb phone, which I’ve used when I needed to be called or to send SMS, and that’s it.

  285. inky

    i used openmoko with shr/qtmoko, then liked maemo devices a lot. now have a couple of commits to maemo-leste, i like that project a lot.

  286. inky

    and i mainly use sailfish.

  287. Link Mauve

    Prior to the OpenMoko I’ve had an i-mode phone.

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  290. Link Mauve

    inky, given my usage of the OpenMoko was more as a pocket computer when I was in high school, I stopped relying on it once I got a laptop.

  291. Link Mauve

    XMPP > SMS.

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  307. Ge0rG

    One can't simply retrofit desktop applications for mobile touch, even when they share the same widget toolkit

  308. Zash

    Miller columns!

  309. Link Mauve

    Ge0rG, hold my grenadine. :p

  310. Ge0rG

    Link Mauve: I'll sip a bit on it while you are in your self imposed world of suffering.

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  351. jubalh

    Ge0rG: noone said so. did someone?

  352. jubalh

    libhandy will make it easier though

  353. Alex

    The clock is ticking, let get some more applications in for board adn council: https://wiki.xmpp.org/web/Board_and_Council_Elections_2020

  354. Ge0rG

    Oh no, I've written the page but forgot to link it!

  355. Ge0rG

    (and the wiki still sucks on mobile)

  356. Alex


  357. Ge0rG

    But I still have some days left, right? Right?!?

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  359. Ge0rG

    Phew, did it in time.

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  361. jonas’

    woo competition!

  362. Ge0rG

    Board is still underseated

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  383. antranigv

    can anyone be a board member?

  384. antranigv


  385. MattJ

    Anyone who applies and gets voted in, yes :)

  386. MattJ

    You don't even need to be an XSF member already

  387. Ge0rG

    antranigv: https://xmpp.org/about/xsf/bylaws scroll down to "ARTICLE IV: Board of Directors"

  388. Ge0rG

    > Directors may only be adult natural persons

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  390. MattJ

    Supernatural beings are excluded

  391. Ge0rG

    also no bots

  392. antranigv

    ahh noooo, looks like I can't, being an alien

  393. antranigv

    anyone know what would be the best use for xmpp.fund?

  394. antranigv

    I got the domain a year ago now I'm thinking to put a links for all patrion and similar of XMPP server/client applications

  395. antranigv

    so people can donate

  396. antranigv

    not sure if I should ask that here, or if there's another channel for that

  397. antranigv


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  400. Ge0rG

    antranigv: jcbrand has created a job portal on https://xmpp.work/ - might be a nice idea to have something similar but for clownfunding

  401. antranigv

    too bad Dino does not have service discovery for MUCs on servers. I should add that.

  402. antranigv

    Ge0rG, crowdfunding you mean? :D

  403. Ge0rG

    antranigv: sure

  404. antranigv

    yea I'll do that, I'll get in touch

  405. antranigv

    I still have the feeling that all messengers are going to die but XMPP is gonna stay forever.

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  413. Neustradamus

    Some people really must update XMPP in Pidgin... - https://sourceforge.net/blog/november-2020-community-choice-project-month-pidgin-im/

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  416. Ge0rG

    Neustradamus: please do!

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  418. Holger


  419. moparisthebest

    pidgin project team has an xmpp server?

  420. Holger

    I guess Pidgin might be a good fit for the remaining *SourceForge* community indeed.

  421. Neustradamus

    moparisthebest: xmpp:devel@conference.pidgin.im?join

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  423. Holger

    XMPP is still the first-mentioned protocol on pidgin.im ...

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  425. moparisthebest


  426. flow

    why does that blog post still mention "Google Talk"…

  427. moparisthebest

    doesn't google talk still work to talk with other google talk users?

  428. MattJ

    I /think/ Google is still accepting client connections

  429. Holger


  430. Zash

    They do

  431. Ge0rG

    but no TLS

  432. MattJ


  433. Holger

    For c2s there's TLS.

  434. Holger

    There wasn't for s2s but that's all-dead now anyway.

  435. MattJ

    There was no TLS on s2s, but they've always had c2s TLS afaik

  436. Ge0rG

    ah, ok

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  438. MattJ

    One reason was custom domains... they were part of the discussions about how to allow a domain to be securely delegated to a third-party to run an XMPP service on your behalf without having to send them your cert+key annually

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  446. edhelas

    Version 1.3.0 of XEP-0118 (User Tune) has been released.

  447. edhelas

    wow 12 years later :D

  448. jonas’

    thank debacle :)

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  495. Ge0rG

    marc: I've submitted the IBR with token approach as a new proto-XEP at https://xmpp.org/extensions/inbox/ibr-token.html and opened a new PR to remove the specifics of it from XEP-0401 at https://gitlab.com/xsf/xeps/-/merge_requests/33

  496. Ge0rG

    Rendered HTML: https://op-co.de/tmp/xep-0401.html

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  498. Ge0rG

    marc: it would be super-splendid if you'd review the 0401 changes and give your OK to merge them.

  499. Ge0rG

    it also renames the XEP to "Ad-hoc Account Invitation Generation"

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  505. MattJ

    !praise Ge0rG

  506. Ge0rG

    MattJ: that's a bit premature, isn't it?

  507. Ge0rG

    There are also some more TODOs remaining in the document, but I hope I can fix them after I've sneaked myself onto the authors list

  508. marc

    Ge0rG, 1.2 3) optional?

  509. marc

    Maybe I don't want all the accounts in my roster

  510. marc

    Also, you sneaked your name into the authors list ;)

  511. Ge0rG

    marc: well, 1.2 3 is the ultimate goal of inviting somebody, isn't it?

  512. marc

    I think that's 1.1

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  514. marc

    If I'm an admin I don't want to have all users in my roster

  515. marc

    I think that's shouldn't be mandatory

  516. Ge0rG

    marc: so it should be a parameter for the admin ad-hoc command?

  517. marc

    Or a server configuration

  518. marc

    I don't know

  519. Ge0rG

    Or a site configuration, because you are the admin after all

  520. Ge0rG

    marc: the new ibr-token comes with a mechanism that doesn't fall back to roster subscription

  521. marc

    new ibr-token?

  522. Ge0rG

    Also I'm pretty sure I didn't touch 1.x 3 in the current PR, so please let's stick to reviewing just the changes I did today?

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  524. Ge0rG

    > marc: I've submitted the IBR with token approach as a new proto-XEP at https://xmpp.org/extensions/inbox/ibr-token.html [...]

  525. marc

    Ge0rG, I see, it's in the current version of 401

  526. marc

    Hard to diff without diff ;)

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  529. marc

    Ge0rG, I saw your submission but I don't understand what you mean. Why is there no PARS fallback. I thought you argued hours for PARS fallback

  530. Ge0rG

    marc: you mean in the new XEP?

  531. marc

    ‎[19:55:48] ‎Ge0rG‎: marc: the new ibr-token comes with a mechanism that doesn't fall back to roster subscription

  532. marc

    Not sure what you mean by that

  533. Ge0rG

    marc: https://xmpp.org/extensions/inbox/ibr-token.html#sect-idm45648763902464 and https://xmpp.org/extensions/inbox/ibr-token.html#sect-idm45648763899840

  534. Ge0rG

    marc: those two are explicitly for account registration, not for adding a contact. The PARS fallback is still part of 0401 and not of the new one, which is just the registration via IBR flow

  535. Ge0rG

    I really don't like splitting a use case over three different XEPs, but I even more dislike everything being stalled

  536. Ge0rG

    marc: the diff is in the MR btw

  537. marc

    I didn't even mention PARS, just that the roster subscription shouldn't be mandatory in account creation

  538. Ge0rG


  539. marc

    But it's not part of your change

  540. marc

    I just recognized it while reading your 401 version

  541. Ge0rG

    marc [20:00]: > Ge0rG, I saw your submission but I don't understand what you mean. Why is there no PARS fallback. I thought you argued hours for PARS fallback > I didn't even mention PARS, just that the roster subscription shouldn't be mandatory in account creation

  542. marc

    > ‎[19:55:48] ‎Ge0rG‎: marc: the new ibr-token comes with a mechanism that doesn't fall back to roster subscription

  543. marc

    you brought that up

  544. Ge0rG

    marc: that's not PARS. You asked about roster subscription being mandatory in 0401, I hinted that it's not in ibr-token

  545. marc

    I'm totally confsued, too late maybe

  546. Ge0rG


  547. marc

    Anyway, looks fine to me

  548. Ge0rG

    marc: thanks very much!

  549. marc

    Ge0rG, thanks for your effort

  550. Ge0rG

    marc: could you please note in either PR that you are okay with the current patch so that jonas’ or another editor can merge?

  551. marc

    Ge0rG, last time it was okay to agree here

  552. marc


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  573. jonas’

    it is ok, but only if an editor sees it :)

  574. jonas’

    and remembers it

  575. jonas’

    so it’s better to do it right on the PR/MR for future reference, too

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  578. emus

    Sorry for interrupt: Hi guus, Openfire Spark is that is a library or server related software?

  579. jonas’

    AFAIK that’s a client

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  581. emus

    ah okay

  582. emus


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  590. Guus

    emus: Openfire is a server, Spark is a desktop client. See igniterealtime.org

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