XSF Discussion - 2020-11-03

XEP-0367: Message Attaching https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0367.html XEP-0422: Message Fastening https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0422.html Has been there any discussion regarding the similarities of these two?

yes

a lot

well, not a lot, but a bit

here’s the thread: https://mail.jabber.org/pipermail/standards/2019-September/036421.html

jonas’ Thank you ❤

Does anyone know whether there were any plans to bring XMPP to KaiOS? I'm not sure about the limitations of the OS

FirefoxOS fork? Any web client should work then

so that means like open a browser and use it there? so no push notifications, right?

Doesn't it support web push?

Even if web push hasn't been implemented in your favorite web client yet it should be fairly easy to retrofit

maybe i should get such a phone and try it out ✏

my smartphone just died :/

What's the appeal of KaiOS?

Aside from being the operating system of _one_ fairly cheap phone in India ✏

It's not KaiOS per se that interests me. More like getting a more durable phone that isnt too expensive

I'm thinking about Nokia 800 Tough or Hammer 5

But I would need XMPP for sure

And not running android would have the downside of not being able to use the DB App and Audible

Otherwise the simplye thing would probably be fine

I have a FirefoxOS device in a drawer somewhere.

It was cheap. It feels cheap. But you could easily package webapps for it iirc.

thats good to hear :)

jubalh, I recently bought a PinePhone, still waiting to receive it.

Dino is an obvious client to run there.

I’ve never tested Android for more than a few minutes on someone else’s phone, so I wouldn’t miss its applications.

Link Mauve: right, that would also be interesting from a foss perspective and i'm interested in buiding gtk apps myself to run on the phone. but not as durable as i'm looking for :)

Link Mauve: so what kind of phones did you use so far if not android?

jubalh, my first smartphone was the OpenMoko FreeRunner, in 2008, I’ve kept it ever since but with the battery pretty much dead I haven’t used it much in the last years.

pinephone is amazing, contgraturalions.

Then two years ago my mother gave me a 15€ dumb phone, which I’ve used when I needed to be called or to send SMS, and that’s it.

i used openmoko with shr/qtmoko, then liked maemo devices a lot. now have a couple of commits to maemo-leste, i like that project a lot.

and i mainly use sailfish.

Prior to the OpenMoko I’ve had an i-mode phone.

inky, given my usage of the OpenMoko was more as a pocket computer when I was in high school, I stopped relying on it once I got a laptop.

XMPP > SMS.

One can't simply retrofit desktop applications for mobile touch, even when they share the same widget toolkit

Miller columns!

Ge0rG, hold my grenadine. :p

Link Mauve: I'll sip a bit on it while you are in your self imposed world of suffering.

Ge0rG: noone said so. did someone?

libhandy will make it easier though

The clock is ticking, let get some more applications in for board adn council: https://wiki.xmpp.org/web/Board_and_Council_Elections_2020

Oh no, I've written the page but forgot to link it!

(and the wiki still sucks on mobile)

😀

But I still have some days left, right? Right?!?

Phew, did it in time.

woo competition!

Board is still underseated

can anyone be a board member?

:P

Anyone who applies and gets voted in, yes :)

You don't even need to be an XSF member already

antranigv: https://xmpp.org/about/xsf/bylaws scroll down to "ARTICLE IV: Board of Directors"

> Directors may only be adult natural persons

Supernatural beings are excluded

also no bots

ahh noooo, looks like I can't, being an alien

anyone know what would be the best use for xmpp.fund?

I got the domain a year ago now I'm thinking to put a links for all patrion and similar of XMPP server/client applications

so people can donate

not sure if I should ask that here, or if there's another channel for that

s/channel/MUC

antranigv: jcbrand has created a job portal on https://xmpp.work/ - might be a nice idea to have something similar but for clownfunding

too bad Dino does not have service discovery for MUCs on servers. I should add that.

Ge0rG, crowdfunding you mean? :D

antranigv: sure

yea I'll do that, I'll get in touch

I still have the feeling that all messengers are going to die but XMPP is gonna stay forever.

Some people really must update XMPP in Pidgin... - https://sourceforge.net/blog/november-2020-community-choice-project-month-pidgin-im/

Neustradamus: please do!

😳

pidgin project team has an xmpp server?

I guess Pidgin might be a good fit for the remaining *SourceForge* community indeed.

moparisthebest: xmpp:devel@conference.pidgin.im?join

XMPP is still the first-mentioned protocol on pidgin.im ...

TIL

why does that blog post still mention "Google Talk"…

doesn't google talk still work to talk with other google talk users?

I /think/ Google is still accepting client connections

Yup.

They do

but no TLS

Sure?

For c2s there's TLS.

There wasn't for s2s but that's all-dead now anyway.

There was no TLS on s2s, but they've always had c2s TLS afaik

ah, ok

One reason was custom domains... they were part of the discussions about how to allow a domain to be securely delegated to a third-party to run an XMPP service on your behalf without having to send them your cert+key annually

Version 1.3.0 of XEP-0118 (User Tune) has been released.

wow 12 years later :D

thank debacle :)

marc: I've submitted the IBR with token approach as a new proto-XEP at https://xmpp.org/extensions/inbox/ibr-token.html and opened a new PR to remove the specifics of it from XEP-0401 at https://gitlab.com/xsf/xeps/-/merge_requests/33

Rendered HTML: https://op-co.de/tmp/xep-0401.html

marc: it would be super-splendid if you'd review the 0401 changes and give your OK to merge them.

it also renames the XEP to "Ad-hoc Account Invitation Generation"

!praise Ge0rG

MattJ: that's a bit premature, isn't it?

There are also some more TODOs remaining in the document, but I hope I can fix them after I've sneaked myself onto the authors list

Ge0rG, 1.2 3) optional?

Maybe I don't want all the accounts in my roster

Also, you sneaked your name into the authors list ;)

marc: well, 1.2 3 is the ultimate goal of inviting somebody, isn't it?

I think that's 1.1

If I'm an admin I don't want to have all users in my roster

I think that's shouldn't be mandatory

marc: so it should be a parameter for the admin ad-hoc command?

Or a server configuration

I don't know

Or a site configuration, because you are the admin after all

marc: the new ibr-token comes with a mechanism that doesn't fall back to roster subscription

new ibr-token?

Also I'm pretty sure I didn't touch 1.x 3 in the current PR, so please let's stick to reviewing just the changes I did today?

> marc: I've submitted the IBR with token approach as a new proto-XEP at https://xmpp.org/extensions/inbox/ibr-token.html [...]

Ge0rG, I see, it's in the current version of 401

Hard to diff without diff ;)

Ge0rG, I saw your submission but I don't understand what you mean. Why is there no PARS fallback. I thought you argued hours for PARS fallback

marc: you mean in the new XEP?

‎[19:55:48] ‎Ge0rG‎: marc: the new ibr-token comes with a mechanism that doesn't fall back to roster subscription

Not sure what you mean by that

marc: https://xmpp.org/extensions/inbox/ibr-token.html#sect-idm45648763902464 and https://xmpp.org/extensions/inbox/ibr-token.html#sect-idm45648763899840

marc: those two are explicitly for account registration, not for adding a contact. The PARS fallback is still part of 0401 and not of the new one, which is just the registration via IBR flow

I really don't like splitting a use case over three different XEPs, but I even more dislike everything being stalled

marc: the diff is in the MR btw

I didn't even mention PARS, just that the roster subscription shouldn't be mandatory in account creation

https://gitlab.com/xsf/xeps/-/merge_requests/33/diffs?commit_id=9c522069a7d09de58b78ccae19c74bb232323c3c

But it's not part of your change

I just recognized it while reading your 401 version

marc [20:00]: > Ge0rG, I saw your submission but I don't understand what you mean. Why is there no PARS fallback. I thought you argued hours for PARS fallback > I didn't even mention PARS, just that the roster subscription shouldn't be mandatory in account creation

> ‎[19:55:48] ‎Ge0rG‎: marc: the new ibr-token comes with a mechanism that doesn't fall back to roster subscription

you brought that up

marc: that's not PARS. You asked about roster subscription being mandatory in 0401, I hinted that it's not in ibr-token

I'm totally confsued, too late maybe

Maybe

Anyway, looks fine to me

marc: thanks very much!

Ge0rG, thanks for your effort

marc: could you please note in either PR that you are okay with the current patch so that jonas’ or another editor can merge?

Ge0rG, last time it was okay to agree here

IIRC

it is ok, but only if an editor sees it :)

and remembers it

so it’s better to do it right on the PR/MR for future reference, too

Sorry for interrupt: Hi guus, Openfire Spark is that is a library or server related software?

AFAIK that’s a client

ah okay

thanks

emus: Openfire is a server, Spark is a desktop client. See igniterealtime.org