XSF Discussion - 2020-11-10

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  225. mdosch > Memberbot is online now for our 2020 elections. Great applicants again this year Is there any documentation how to use the memberbot? I failed to find it. 😔
  226. Zash Say "hello" or something to it
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  228. mdosch xmpp:memberbot@xmpp.org is not replying to 'help' or 'hello'.
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  230. MattJ Then poke Alex and make sure he has your up-to-date JID
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  232. MattJ and that your s2s is working :)
  233. larma jonas’, regarding opengraph and phishing: https://www.der-postillon.com/2020/05/reichelt-twitter.html (sorry, German article)
  234. jonas’ also satire
  235. jonas’ I don’t like the postillons style, so I’ll just not click that, sorry
  236. Alex mdosch, please send me your prefereed Jid for voting and I will verify, or should I just take it from your membership application?
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  238. mdosch Alex: martin@mdosch.de
  239. mdosch Thanks :)
  240. MattJ I definitely agree that sender/server-provided link previews are the way to go
  241. jonas’ I think there is a huge difference between sender and server
  242. Zash Why not a bot?
  243. jonas’ same thing as server
  244. Zash Why not random anonymous users?!
  245. MattJ I mean to cover any form of "the preview data is embedded in the message"
  246. MattJ Although intuitively it seems wrong (trusting information provided by another party), generating the preview on the recipient side only adds problems and doesn't solve any of the possible "attacks"
  247. Holger Alex: While you're at it 🙂 holger@jabber.fu-berlin.de
  248. MattJ If the link is malicious it can easily serve different content to different requests, e.g. if it sees an XMPP client's user-agent instead of a browser
  249. MattJ Meanwhile it leaks activity, your network address, and other information to the web server behind the link, without user action
  250. Alex adeed both Jids, can you try again?
  251. mdosch >10.11.20 16:35:14 - Subscription received from memberbot@xmpp.org Alex: Thanks!
  252. larma jonas’: the article is about how they maliciously changed link preview by updating opengraph data after someone shared one of their articles on twitter.
  253. jonas’ MattJ, it does solve the case where an attacker just wants to prank you
  254. jonas’ take $urlToOffensivePictureInFullscreen, attach wrong preview, done.
  255. jonas’ that attack does not need control over the webserver ("serve different content to different users")
  256. MattJ Agree, but they could just provide the link without a preview too and you'd probably open it anyway if you trust them :)
  257. Zash Solution in search of a problem: What if, the XMPP server offers a caching HTTP proxy to its users?
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  259. MattJ and the same thing can be done in the recipient-generates-preview world
  260. jonas’ MattJ, they can’t if previews are generated locally.
  261. Zash Credentials via XEP-0215 or somesuch
  262. MattJ so it doesn't fix anything
  263. jonas’ how does a recipient-generated preview not fix that case?
  264. MattJ Because they can provide a URL that does what I described above
  265. Zash How about *everyone* generates their own preview, then we compare?
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  268. larma Zash, consider e2ee, you'd leak message content to the server if you use a server-provided proxy
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  271. Zash If you do HTTPS over SOCKS5 it leaks hostname to the XMPP server in exchange for not leaking your own IP to the proxy target.
  272. Zash So. Dunno, tradeoffs.
  273. larma yeah, but sender provided link previews do not leak anything...
  274. Zash Also, trust the server, the server is good!! ;)
  275. larma https://www.mysk.blog/2020/10/25/link-previews/ (lists which messaging apps do what, in case someone is interested)
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  280. Ge0rG jonas’: I wanted to do some editing of CS'21, how long are you still available to merge a PR?
  281. jonas’ Ge0rG, today?
  282. jonas’ 30 minutes probably
  283. Ge0rG jonas’: yes, thanks
  284. Ge0rG just realized there were no additional votes on ibr-token yet. Wanted to add it to Future Development.
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  286. Holger Alex: Works for me as well, thank you.
  287. Alex 👍
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  290. Ge0rG jonas’: are you opposed to have Extended Channel Search (XEP-0433) as "specification of note" in IM?
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  292. jonas’ Ge0rG, no, sgtm
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  297. wurstsalat larma: thanks for that comprehensive link!
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  301. edhelas > The moment the link was sent, several Facebook servers immediately started downloading the file from our server. Since it wasn’t just one server, that large 2.6 GB file was downloaded several times. In total, approximately 24.7 GB of data was downloaded from our server by Facebook servers.
  302. edhelas damn, they really have bandwidth and space available
  303. vanitasvitae 😀
  304. vanitasvitae 🍿️
  305. edhelas my next question would be "what is the actual limit before we see some availability issue on status.facebook.com" :p
  306. jonas’ I have that one file somewhere which is like 4k on my disk but is effectively several hundred GBs of zeroes…
  307. Ge0rG jonas’: https://gitlab.com/xsf/xeps/-/merge_requests/35
  308. jonas’ I do like to use it to stresstest URL resolving bots :)
  309. Ge0rG jonas’: luckily traffic is free, eh?
  310. jonas’ Ge0rG, can you rebase on current master/main first please?
  311. jonas’ Ge0rG, it’s not, but the bots usually die quickly
  312. edhelas for Movim I do have something like that, only for pictures, it's generated by the sender, and only limited to a few Mb
  313. Ge0rG jonas’: rebases & repushed
  314. jonas’ Ge0rG, also fun is the same thing but with <!DOCTYPE html>\n<html><title> in front of it :>
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  321. Neustradamus Memberbot does not work, impossible to start
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  329. mathieui seems to work fine here
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  344. moparisthebest Neustradamus, is it just not responding or?
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  346. Zash s2s seems to be working fine from what I can tell
  347. Neustradamus Now it is good
  348. Neustradamus There was 2 connections before, now only one.
  349. Zash Oh, not using jabber.org?
  350. Neustradamus This problem has been solved, I think with a change in OpenSSL. But it is not the solution to do not migrate completely to Prosody...
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  377. Ge0rG jonas’: thanks for merging!
  378. Ge0rG Looks like I missed adding AV to the categories list in the intro. Also should find a better name for "feature providers"
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  380. Ge0rG Maybe just "specifications"?
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