-
SamWhited
Sanity check, is it possible to have one element with two XMLNS attributes? I can't find a rule forbidding it, but I have no idea what the actual namespace is of <a xmlns="foo" xmlns="bar"/>
-
flow
SamWhited, I'd expect there to be a rule that a attribute is unique within an element
-
flow
One can generalize your question if <element foo='bar' foo='baz'/> is allowed
-
SamWhited
Maybe. The XML spec treats all kinds of attributes differently. It's very confusing.
-
Link Mauve
flow, xmlns isn’t an attribute though, not in XML 1.0 + Namespaces.
-
Zash
I'd go with "Wait, that's illegal"
-
SamWhited
The reason I'm questioning myself is that I found some tests in an xml library that seem to deliberately do this, and looking through the spec I can't find anywhere that it says that it's illegal (but again, huge spec). I *assumed* it was, now I'm not sure.
-
Zash
> Received invalid XML (duplicate attribute) The parser has spoken.
-
flow
Link Mauve, care to elaborate?
-
SamWhited
Zash: unfortunately the other parser (admittedly, one I don't trust at all) seems to be deliberately checking that this is okay. The parsers are arguing :)
-
Zash
https://www.w3.org/TR/2008/REC-xml-20081126/#uniqattspec
-
Zash
Can't tell if this is the requirements for XML or for XML Schema tho
-
Zash
> An attribute name MUST NOT appear more than once in the same start-tag or empty-element tag.
-
Zash
That one seems clear enough tho
-
flow
given that all parsers I know about return at most a single value for an attribute, i think this applies to XML
-
SamWhited
oh cool, thanks, that's what I was hoping for, thanks
-
arne
Hi, this Tech Page could be improved I thing when using xep-0368 with nginx only
-
arne
https://wiki.xmpp.org/web/Tech_pages/XEP-0368#nginx
-
arne
When I use the settings described port 5222 doesnt work anymore. So I just added 5222 in the upstream
-
jonas’
arne, you can get a wiki account to fix it yourself if you want to :)
-
arne
Alright jonas' I'll do 😀
-
arne
If it's really right what I say?✎ -
Ge0rG
arne: I'm not sure it's right.
-
arne
If it's really right what I mean? ✏
-
Ge0rG
arne: 5222 is STARTTLS, not direct TLS, so it doesn't have ALPN
-
Ge0rG
arne: normally nginx shouldn't listen on 5222
-
jonas’
pinging moparisthebest
-
jonas’
I think they maintain that page effectively
-
arne
mh, so how to support 5222 then? just by using sslh?
-
arne
strange think, it does work for me now
-
jonas’
arne, to clarify, by 5222 you actually mean xmpp-client, right?
-
arne
yes actually
-
moparisthebest
arne: the example nginx config there doesn't mention 5222
-
Ge0rG
arne: just let 5222 be managed by your xmpp server?
-
arne
I did, but it didn't connect then, when using nginx for xmpp over https
-
jonas’
moparisthebest, the config does claim to put 443 into _xmpp-client (note the absent `s`) too, though, which confuses me and doesn’t seem to work
-
moparisthebest
sslh will muliplex 5222/regular XMPP, nginx will not
-
arne
so I need to use sslh if I want 5223, 443 and 5222 working?
-
jonas’
arne, no
-
moparisthebest
The example srv records work for that sslh config but not that nginx config
-
jonas’
but you need sslh if you want to have 443 in _xmpp-client
-
moparisthebest
Guess it should say that...
-
arne
yes the dns setup is for sslh.
-
moparisthebest
arne: simply don't set the xmpp-client srv record at 443
-
moparisthebest
Leave the xmpps one
-
arne
alright, will try this. Thanks!
-
moparisthebest
arne: but name and shame the bad client that refused to fall back to 5222 like it should :)
-
jonas’
moparisthebest, observe.jabber.network complained :)
-
jonas’
(like it should)
-
moparisthebest
Oh I agree complaints are in order, some clients stop falling back prematurely though, which is wrong
-
Arne
MH, still the problem with 5222
-
Arne
but with conversations✎ -
Arne
but with conversations and also with oberserve.jabber tool ✏
-
Arne
but with conversations and also with oberserve.jabber tool. oh wait frogot that DNS settings need some time.. ✏
-
arne
nevertheless looks like conversations doens't fall back to 5222 when I block the rest...
-
moparisthebest
Conversations does
-
moparisthebest
Unless it's been broken very recently
-
arne
But I only had port 5222 open nothing else
-
jonas’
arne, maybe give it a while, your DNS records had a TTL of a day...
-
jonas’
may take a while to age out
-
arne
Alright, I stop spaming 🙂
-
Ge0rG
DNS: 72 hours is a sane default for something you can't change retroactively HTTP: our WordPress is rendering each request to / individually, using a dozen database requests, just in case!
-
Zash
Hey I have my DNS in a database and my website is statically generated!
-
Ge0rG
Zash: sounds like you need DoH then
-
jonas’
Ge0rG, ECHAN?
-
jonas’
I think we don’t have a wordpress.
-
Ge0rG
jonas’: well, the whole discussion probably belonged to jdev
-
Ge0rG
Maybe operators
-
jonas’
Ge0rG, is that an attempt to pull an "But they’re doing it wrong too!!kk" to save yourself? ;)
-
lovetox
i think the red elements in the new dark layout of the XEPs is barely readable
-
Ge0rG
jonas’: no, it was a general remark about the tradeoffs at different protocol layers. I would never deploy WordPress myself, and would probably exit from projects that do
-
jonas’
lovetox, PRs welcome!
-
Alex
Reminder, we have our annual member meeting in ~30 minutes to approve voting results
-
jonas’
thanks Alex
-
Ge0rG
Can we just refuse to leave the Council MUC and involve SCOTUS to contest the results?
-
SamWhited
Ge0rG: only if you have a crack legal team that involves too much hair dye and the ghost of Hugo Chavez
-
Alex
Ge0rG, 🤣 🤣
-
Ge0rG
It's time, isn't it?
-
Alex
ya, its prime time
-
jonas’
\o/
-
Ge0rG
I'm not curious at all
- Alex bangs the gavel
-
Alex
here is our Agenda for today: https://wiki.xmpp.org/web/Meeting-Minutes-2020-11-24
-
jonas’
https://i.imgur.com/XAtCCiN.gif
-
Alex
1) Call for Quorum
-
Alex
as you can see 36 members voted via proxy, so we have a quorum
-
Alex
2) Items Subject to a Vote
-
Alex
Board and Council elections, you can see the applicants here: https://wiki.xmpp.org/web/Board_and_Council_Elections_2020
-
Alex
3) Opportunity for XSF members to Vote in the Meeting
-
Alex
anyone here who has not voted yet and wants to do so now?
-
Alex
memberbot is sill online to accepts votes
-
Alex
3 ...
-
Alex
2 ...
-
Alex
1 ...
-
Alex
nobody wants to vote in the meeting
-
Alex
so I will close the voting and will fetch the results
-
Alex
let me work on the results, will be back shortly
-
jonas’
good luck
-
SamWhited
Likewise
- jonas’ resists to make any jokes about stopping the count or mail-in ballots.
-
Link Mauve
:D
-
guus.der.kinderen
we all have the "FAKE ELECTIONS! I WON!" lines ready to be used, right?
-
Daniel
Still too soon probably...
-
jonas’
Daniel, not sure if "too soon" because there are no results yet or "too soon" because Nov 3rd isn’t that much in the past
-
Link Mauve
I demand a recount!
-
SamWhited
It really is, I'm torn between smiling and horror :) once Georgia's through its runoffs in January maybe I'll lighten up a bit
-
jonas’
SamWhited, how about a creepy horror movie girl grin?
-
guus.der.kinderen
I recall that recounts cost the requestee something along the line of a few million USD? I'm thinking that Alex is willing to accomodate you, Link Mauve...
-
SamWhited
jonas’: yah, that's been me for the last couple of years pretty much constantly
-
jonas’
guus.der.kinderen, we’ll have a recount and we’ll make New Vector pay for it!!k
-
SamWhited
guus.der.kinderen: it depends, in Georgia the tax payers pay for it if it's within a certain margin, so I guess we'll have to deduct it from our membership dues
-
Ge0rG
jonas’: make the Council room invite only!
-
jonas’
Ge0rG, I’d rather accidentally close s2s connections
-
jonas’
repeatedly accidentally
-
jonas’
otherwise it’s too obvious!
-
Ge0rG
jonas’: during the election, not afterwards
-
jonas’
now you lost me
-
Alex
okay, I am back
-
Ge0rG
jonas’: stop counting late votes by closing s2s to memberbot
-
jonas’
welcome back Alex. nevermind the backlog :)
-
guus.der.kinderen
apologies for the backlog.
-
Alex
4) Announcement of Voting Results
-
Alex
When you reload the page at: https://wiki.xmpp.org/web/Meeting-Minutes-2020-11-24 you can see the results
-
jonas’
I know that gang
-
Alex
you can order by headers on the Wiki tables
-
SamWhited
Congrats all
-
jonas’
congratulations all, specially MattJ for 0 No votes.
-
Alex
new board will be: Matthew Wild Dave Cridland Arc Riley Severino Ferrer Ralph Meijer
-
Ge0rG
Congratulations!
-
Link Mauve
Congrats everyone!
-
Alex
Top 5 on council are: Daniel Gultsch Jonas Schäfer Georg Lukas Kim Alvefur Dave Cridland
-
Alex
very close election again
-
Daniel
> congratulations all, specially MattJ for 0 No votes. +1
-
Alex
congrats everyone, and thanks for all applicants for applying
-
jonas’
Ge0rG, Daniel, Zash, dwd, I assume tomorrow the usual time works? larma, in case dwd decides to forfeit his seat in Council in favour of Board, it’d be good to have you there, too (16:00Z)
-
Alex
5) Any other Business?
-
jonas’
yes
-
Daniel
Oh
-
jonas’
what do we need to do in order to invite a non-XSF-Member to the Dinner? Do we need a formal vote for that?
-
Daniel
What dinner?
-
jonas’
(i mean, it obviously is irrelevant for the upcoming year anyway)
-
Link Mauve
Could the dinner even happen this year?✎ -
Link Mauve
. ✏
-
jonas’
but I wanted to put the thought out as I know of someone who we should definitely invite if and when we can.
-
jonas’
if nobody knows off the top of their heads, I’ll bring this up to board+1 and that’s ok.
-
dwd
Broadly, board decides who comes, and whether they pay.
-
Daniel
I think in the past non members have been invited by the sponsor
-
jonas’
dwd, ITYM Boardly.
-
guus.der.kinderen
I do not think that in invitation is required?
-
jonas’
guus.der.kinderen, invitation as in "paid for"
-
jonas’
anyway, I’ll bring it up with board then, thanks
-
jonas’
no further AOB from me
-
Alex
6) Formal Adjournment
-
Alex
I motion that we adjourn
-
SamWhited
Seconded
-
guus.der.kinderen
Seconded
- Alex bangs the gavel
-
guus.der.kinderen
Thanks Alex!
-
dwd
We used to have +1's, but board decided that was just being used to invite anyone who might want to come. But maybe that was better anyway.
-
SamWhited
Thanks Alex; great job, as always :)
-
Alex
thanks everyone 👍
-
Zash
Thanks Alex
-
dwd
Depends if we have sufficient budget, really.
-
dwd
Thanks Alex!
-
Alex
we can always try to find more sponsors
-
Alex
if its only 1 person it should be easy
-
Link Mauve
Zash, your note change made the Disclaimer of Warranty unreadable in every XEP.
-
Link Mauve
Maybe change its background too.
-
Zash
Oh no
-
Link Mauve
Yeah, that’s .info
-
jonas’
Oh no
-
Zash
Why .box, why?
-
MattJ
Congratulations all, and welcome back arc :)
-
jonas’
sorry
-
jonas’
Zash, feel free to make it something more sane in the XSL
-
jonas’
I’d welcome that
-
arc
*waves*
-
jonas’
Ge0rG, FYI, I assigned a new namespace to XEP-0445 during acceptance
-
jonas’
I hope I didn’t mess that up, please check and PR otherwise
-
Ge0rG
jonas’: I'll check tomorrow. I hoped to be able to use the same namespace for both.
-
emus
Congratulations to all elected ones! I didnt realised there was a no-vote option and I am a bit shocked how many seem to make use of that. 🤔
-
emus
Alex: Would you mind to write a little announcement? I can place it in the newsletter. I think it is good to show that we have those kind of processes in the XSF.
-
lskdjf
emus, there is indeed no "No" option. People have up to 5 votes. As far as I see, candidates that didn't get one of those are counted as "No", even though you did not actually vote against them. The meeting minutes are actually somewhat misleading in that sense. Perhaps it would make sense to clarify them?