XSF Discussion - 2020-11-24

Sanity check, is it possible to have one element with two XMLNS attributes? I can't find a rule forbidding it, but I have no idea what the actual namespace is of <a xmlns="foo" xmlns="bar"/>

SamWhited, I'd expect there to be a rule that a attribute is unique within an element

One can generalize your question if <element foo='bar' foo='baz'/> is allowed

Maybe. The XML spec treats all kinds of attributes differently. It's very confusing.

flow, xmlns isn’t an attribute though, not in XML 1.0 + Namespaces.

I'd go with "Wait, that's illegal"

The reason I'm questioning myself is that I found some tests in an xml library that seem to deliberately do this, and looking through the spec I can't find anywhere that it says that it's illegal (but again, huge spec). I *assumed* it was, now I'm not sure.

> Received invalid XML (duplicate attribute) The parser has spoken.

Link Mauve, care to elaborate?

Zash: unfortunately the other parser (admittedly, one I don't trust at all) seems to be deliberately checking that this is okay. The parsers are arguing :)

https://www.w3.org/TR/2008/REC-xml-20081126/#uniqattspec

Can't tell if this is the requirements for XML or for XML Schema tho

> An attribute name MUST NOT appear more than once in the same start-tag or empty-element tag.

That one seems clear enough tho

given that all parsers I know about return at most a single value for an attribute, i think this applies to XML

oh cool, thanks, that's what I was hoping for, thanks

Hi, this Tech Page could be improved I thing when using xep-0368 with nginx only

https://wiki.xmpp.org/web/Tech_pages/XEP-0368#nginx

When I use the settings described port 5222 doesnt work anymore. So I just added 5222 in the upstream

arne, you can get a wiki account to fix it yourself if you want to :)

Alright jonas' I'll do 😀

arne: I'm not sure it's right.

If it's really right what I mean? ✏

arne: 5222 is STARTTLS, not direct TLS, so it doesn't have ALPN

arne: normally nginx shouldn't listen on 5222

pinging moparisthebest

I think they maintain that page effectively

mh, so how to support 5222 then? just by using sslh?

strange think, it does work for me now

arne, to clarify, by 5222 you actually mean xmpp-client, right?

yes actually

arne: the example nginx config there doesn't mention 5222

arne: just let 5222 be managed by your xmpp server?

I did, but it didn't connect then, when using nginx for xmpp over https

moparisthebest, the config does claim to put 443 into _xmpp-client (note the absent `s`) too, though, which confuses me and doesn’t seem to work

sslh will muliplex 5222/regular XMPP, nginx will not

so I need to use sslh if I want 5223, 443 and 5222 working?

arne, no

The example srv records work for that sslh config but not that nginx config

but you need sslh if you want to have 443 in _xmpp-client

Guess it should say that...

yes the dns setup is for sslh.

arne: simply don't set the xmpp-client srv record at 443

Leave the xmpps one

alright, will try this. Thanks!

arne: but name and shame the bad client that refused to fall back to 5222 like it should :)

moparisthebest, observe.jabber.network complained :)

(like it should)

Oh I agree complaints are in order, some clients stop falling back prematurely though, which is wrong

MH, still the problem with 5222

but with conversations and also with oberserve.jabber tool ✏

but with conversations and also with oberserve.jabber tool. oh wait frogot that DNS settings need some time.. ✏

nevertheless looks like conversations doens't fall back to 5222 when I block the rest...

Conversations does

Unless it's been broken very recently

But I only had port 5222 open nothing else

arne, maybe give it a while, your DNS records had a TTL of a day...

may take a while to age out

Alright, I stop spaming 🙂

DNS: 72 hours is a sane default for something you can't change retroactively HTTP: our WordPress is rendering each request to / individually, using a dozen database requests, just in case!

Hey I have my DNS in a database and my website is statically generated!

Zash: sounds like you need DoH then

Ge0rG, ECHAN?

I think we don’t have a wordpress.

jonas’: well, the whole discussion probably belonged to jdev

Maybe operators

Ge0rG, is that an attempt to pull an "But they’re doing it wrong too!!kk" to save yourself? ;)

i think the red elements in the new dark layout of the XEPs is barely readable

jonas’: no, it was a general remark about the tradeoffs at different protocol layers. I would never deploy WordPress myself, and would probably exit from projects that do

lovetox, PRs welcome!

Reminder, we have our annual member meeting in ~30 minutes to approve voting results

thanks Alex

Can we just refuse to leave the Council MUC and involve SCOTUS to contest the results?

Ge0rG: only if you have a crack legal team that involves too much hair dye and the ghost of Hugo Chavez

Ge0rG, 🤣 🤣

It's time, isn't it?

ya, its prime time

\o/

I'm not curious at all

here is our Agenda for today: https://wiki.xmpp.org/web/Meeting-Minutes-2020-11-24

https://i.imgur.com/XAtCCiN.gif

1) Call for Quorum

as you can see 36 members voted via proxy, so we have a quorum

2) Items Subject to a Vote

Board and Council elections, you can see the applicants here: https://wiki.xmpp.org/web/Board_and_Council_Elections_2020

3) Opportunity for XSF members to Vote in the Meeting

anyone here who has not voted yet and wants to do so now?

memberbot is sill online to accepts votes

3 ...

2 ...

1 ...

nobody wants to vote in the meeting

so I will close the voting and will fetch the results

let me work on the results, will be back shortly

good luck

Likewise

:D

we all have the "FAKE ELECTIONS! I WON!" lines ready to be used, right?

Still too soon probably...

Daniel, not sure if "too soon" because there are no results yet or "too soon" because Nov 3rd isn’t that much in the past

I demand a recount!

It really is, I'm torn between smiling and horror :) once Georgia's through its runoffs in January maybe I'll lighten up a bit

SamWhited, how about a creepy horror movie girl grin?

I recall that recounts cost the requestee something along the line of a few million USD? I'm thinking that Alex is willing to accomodate you, Link Mauve...

jonas’: yah, that's been me for the last couple of years pretty much constantly

guus.der.kinderen, we’ll have a recount and we’ll make New Vector pay for it!!k

guus.der.kinderen: it depends, in Georgia the tax payers pay for it if it's within a certain margin, so I guess we'll have to deduct it from our membership dues

jonas’: make the Council room invite only!

Ge0rG, I’d rather accidentally close s2s connections

repeatedly accidentally

otherwise it’s too obvious!

jonas’: during the election, not afterwards

now you lost me

okay, I am back

jonas’: stop counting late votes by closing s2s to memberbot

welcome back Alex. nevermind the backlog :)

apologies for the backlog.

4) Announcement of Voting Results

When you reload the page at: https://wiki.xmpp.org/web/Meeting-Minutes-2020-11-24 you can see the results

I know that gang

you can order by headers on the Wiki tables

Congrats all

congratulations all, specially MattJ for 0 No votes.

new board will be: Matthew Wild Dave Cridland Arc Riley Severino Ferrer Ralph Meijer

Congratulations!

Congrats everyone!

Top 5 on council are: Daniel Gultsch Jonas Schäfer Georg Lukas Kim Alvefur Dave Cridland

very close election again

> congratulations all, specially MattJ for 0 No votes. +1

congrats everyone, and thanks for all applicants for applying

Ge0rG, Daniel, Zash, dwd, I assume tomorrow the usual time works? larma, in case dwd decides to forfeit his seat in Council in favour of Board, it’d be good to have you there, too (16:00Z)

5) Any other Business?

yes

Oh

what do we need to do in order to invite a non-XSF-Member to the Dinner? Do we need a formal vote for that?

What dinner?

(i mean, it obviously is irrelevant for the upcoming year anyway)

. ✏

but I wanted to put the thought out as I know of someone who we should definitely invite if and when we can.

if nobody knows off the top of their heads, I’ll bring this up to board+1 and that’s ok.

Broadly, board decides who comes, and whether they pay.

I think in the past non members have been invited by the sponsor

dwd, ITYM Boardly.

I do not think that in invitation is required?

guus.der.kinderen, invitation as in "paid for"

anyway, I’ll bring it up with board then, thanks

no further AOB from me

6) Formal Adjournment

I motion that we adjourn

Seconded

Seconded

Thanks Alex!

We used to have +1's, but board decided that was just being used to invite anyone who might want to come. But maybe that was better anyway.

Thanks Alex; great job, as always :)

thanks everyone 👍

Thanks Alex

Depends if we have sufficient budget, really.

Thanks Alex!

we can always try to find more sponsors

if its only 1 person it should be easy

Zash, your note change made the Disclaimer of Warranty unreadable in every XEP.

Maybe change its background too.

Oh no

Yeah, that’s .info

Oh no

Why .box, why?

Congratulations all, and welcome back arc :)

sorry

Zash, feel free to make it something more sane in the XSL

I’d welcome that

*waves*

Ge0rG, FYI, I assigned a new namespace to XEP-0445 during acceptance

I hope I didn’t mess that up, please check and PR otherwise

jonas’: I'll check tomorrow. I hoped to be able to use the same namespace for both.

Congratulations to all elected ones! I didnt realised there was a no-vote option and I am a bit shocked how many seem to make use of that. 🤔

Alex: Would you mind to write a little announcement? I can place it in the newsletter. I think it is good to show that we have those kind of processes in the XSF.

emus, there is indeed no "No" option. People have up to 5 votes. As far as I see, candidates that didn't get one of those are counted as "No", even though you did not actually vote against them. The meeting minutes are actually somewhat misleading in that sense. Perhaps it would make sense to clarify them?