Zashhttps://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0227.html is the closest I can think of
SamWhitedIt seems like that would be very client specific
marcThanks, that's a good starting point
marcSamWhited: no I think the most important parts could be generic
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ZashYou can always throw in a client-specific extension under a custom namespace
SamWhitedFair point; I can't imagine that working very well, but if we could make it work it would be neat. Maybe mandate that you preserve unknown elements on the next export or something so that it will grow forever, but if you go back to an old client you still have your previous client-specific bits.
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SamWhitedOr maybe most people always just stick to a single client and it's fine 99% of the time.
marc> You can always throw in a client-specific extension under a custom namespace
Exactly
marcMaybe I find some time to write something down
ZashMissing a way to store PEP and MAM data (= local archive?) in there tho.
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marcWith a common backup format we could also achieve that we can move from one client software to another
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marcWith a common backup format we could also achieve that we can migrate from one client software to another
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Ge0rGOr we could just store everything on the server and use a QR code of the login credentials to onboard the second client.
ZashStore the whole client in the server, use some kind of shared secret to access it!
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Ge0rGZash: using a document transmission protocol?
ZashThat sounds appropriate
marcGe0rG: not sure if trolling
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MattJNobody ever is
MattJFWIW I've been thinking about this recently, would love to see it solved
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MattJAlso live migration between clients
MattJWhich can be done fairly easily once such a format is standardized
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lovetoxwhat data is there to migrate?
lovetoxmessages are in MAM, contacts are in roster
lovetoxwhat is there else?
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ZashMessages in local archive, expired from MAM. E2EE secrets. Other settings.
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ZashWhatever is stored on the local machine that.
ZashWhatever is stored on the local machine
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MattJlovetox: recent messages are in MAM, client history may be more extensive
MattJAnd with encryption MAM is useless to a new client anyway, without some migration/bootstrapping mechanism
ZashAt least in case of e2ee with forward secrecy, like omemo.
lovetoxyeah thats true
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lovetoxwriting a XEP to exchange old messages should not be a big challenge
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marclovetox: true, but I would like to backup omemo keys and config as well
SamWhitedI still want client-to-client MAM
ZashJust Do It
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lovetoxthe idea about the signal protocol was that you dont have to manage your key
lovetoxnow backing it up, transfering it to other devices, and encrypting it in the process proabably
lovetoxsounds a lot like pgp
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marcWell, I just want to backup and restore my Gajim, Dino, whatever installation
marcAnd the omemo key is an essential part of it
lovetoxthats not the same as migrating to another client
marcMigration to another client software is basically the same, no?
lovetoxand i dont see why we would need to standardize how to backup a dino installation
lovetoxno i dont think its the same
lovetoxfor backing up your software, there are a million solutions out there
lovetoxfor migrating to another client, there are 0 solutions out there
marcWell, not the installation but the local data
marcI think we can have both with a standardized exchange format
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marclovetox, sure, I can backup my .local/whatever/gajim folder and the .config/whatever/gajim folder but an export solution via the gui or a "gajim --export myaccount@example.com" command would be much easier for most users
marcI don't see why we should not use a client migration solution for backups as well
lovetoxbecause it makes not much sense to migrate everything to another client
marcfor example?
MattJJust today someone migrated from Snikket on an old phone to a new phone... it was not as easy as it could be, that's for sure
lovetoxeverything except messages :D
MattJAnd that is with a proprietary backup format already
lovetoxreally everything else is just much much work for very little gain
marcwell, I would like to migrate my pictures etc. as well
lovetoxits not daily business that people migrate to other clients
lovetoxa xmpp client is not your picture archive
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marctell that an xmpp user...
marcOh, you can migrate from Gajim to Dino but everything is lost...
marcor "sure you can, but you have only your messages but all pictures are gone"