XSF Discussion - 2020-12-27


  1. alameyo has left
  2. debacle has left
  3. debacle has joined
  4. govanify has left
  5. govanify has joined
  6. edenist has left
  7. edenist has joined
  8. paul has left
  9. alameyo has joined
  10. focus121 has left
  11. focus121 has joined
  12. govanify has left
  13. govanify has joined
  14. chronosx88 has left
  15. debacle has left
  16. debacle has joined
  17. krauq has left
  18. krauq has joined
  19. wladmis has left
  20. debacle has left
  21. Aleksej has left
  22. Maranda has left
  23. Maranda has joined
  24. xsf has joined
  25. arc has left
  26. arc has joined
  27. wladmis has joined
  28. govanify has left
  29. govanify has joined
  30. intosi has joined
  31. andy has left
  32. govanify has left
  33. govanify has joined
  34. govanify has left
  35. govanify has joined
  36. sven has joined
  37. edenist has left
  38. edenist has joined
  39. intosi has left
  40. govanify has left
  41. govanify has joined
  42. emus has left
  43. emus has joined
  44. krauq has left
  45. krauq has joined
  46. dwd has left
  47. govanify has left
  48. govanify has joined
  49. intosi has joined
  50. intosi has left
  51. govanify has left
  52. govanify has joined
  53. govanify has left
  54. govanify has joined
  55. govanify has left
  56. govanify has joined
  57. krauq has left
  58. krauq has joined
  59. intosi has joined
  60. Neustradamus has left
  61. Neustradamus has joined
  62. alameyo has left
  63. alameyo has joined
  64. govanify has left
  65. govanify has joined
  66. Link Mauve has left
  67. intosi has left
  68. murabito has left
  69. Calvin has left
  70. govanify has left
  71. govanify has joined
  72. govanify has left
  73. govanify has joined
  74. intosi has joined
  75. j.r has left
  76. govanify has left
  77. govanify has joined
  78. Adi has left
  79. intosi has left
  80. emus has left
  81. chronosx88 has joined
  82. LNJ has left
  83. alameyo has left
  84. alameyo has joined
  85. intosi has joined
  86. alameyo has left
  87. neshtaxmpp has joined
  88. intosi has left
  89. wladmis has left
  90. andy has joined
  91. govanify has left
  92. govanify has joined
  93. edenist has left
  94. edenist has joined
  95. intosi has joined
  96. andy has left
  97. Seve has joined
  98. edenist has left
  99. edenist has joined
  100. intosi has left
  101. alameyo has joined
  102. paul has joined
  103. paul has left
  104. paul has joined
  105. edenist has left
  106. edenist has joined
  107. edenist has left
  108. edenist has joined
  109. edenist has left
  110. edenist has joined
  111. edenist has left
  112. edenist has joined
  113. edenist has left
  114. edenist has joined
  115. Mikaela has joined
  116. intosi has joined
  117. edenist has left
  118. edenist has joined
  119. Maranda has left
  120. Maranda has joined
  121. Maranda has left
  122. Maranda has joined
  123. Maranda has left
  124. intosi has left
  125. dwd has joined
  126. Maranda has joined
  127. Maranda has left
  128. govanify has left
  129. govanify has joined
  130. pitchum has joined
  131. lorddavidiii has joined
  132. intosi has joined
  133. Maranda has joined
  134. Maranda has left
  135. matkor has left
  136. govanify has left
  137. govanify has joined
  138. Maranda has joined
  139. pitchum has left
  140. Maranda has left
  141. Maranda has joined
  142. govanify has left
  143. govanify has joined
  144. paul has left
  145. antranigv has left
  146. intosi has left
  147. Maranda has left
  148. Maranda has joined
  149. intosi has joined
  150. antranigv has joined
  151. edenist has left
  152. edenist has joined
  153. govanify has left
  154. govanify has joined
  155. Maranda has left
  156. Maranda has joined
  157. Maranda has left
  158. Maranda has joined
  159. lovetox has joined
  160. Maranda has left
  161. Maranda has joined
  162. lovetox has left
  163. Maranda has left
  164. Adi has joined
  165. wladmis has joined
  166. wurstsalat has left
  167. wladmis has left
  168. wladmis has joined
  169. Alex has joined
  170. edenist has left
  171. edenist has joined
  172. lionelexecrec has left
  173. lionelexecrec has joined
  174. jcbrand has joined
  175. wurstsalat has joined
  176. Maranda has joined
  177. wladmis has left
  178. intosi has left
  179. govanify has left
  180. govanify has joined
  181. paul has joined
  182. sonny has left
  183. sonny has joined
  184. edenist has left
  185. edenist has joined
  186. lionelexecrec has left
  187. lionelexecrec has joined
  188. lionelexecrec has left
  189. lionelexecrec has joined
  190. govanify has left
  191. govanify has joined
  192. fuana has joined
  193. edenist has left
  194. edenist has joined
  195. murabito has joined
  196. govanify has left
  197. govanify has joined
  198. peetah has left
  199. sonny has left
  200. sonny has joined
  201. peetah has joined
  202. matkor has joined
  203. mukt2 has joined
  204. lionelexecrec has left
  205. lionelexecrec has joined
  206. lovetox has joined
  207. antranigv has left
  208. fuana has left
  209. fuana has joined
  210. floretta has left
  211. peetah has left
  212. Seve has left
  213. Seve has joined
  214. govanify has left
  215. govanify has joined
  216. peetah has joined
  217. mukt2 has left
  218. krauq has left
  219. krauq has joined
  220. paul has left
  221. fuana has left
  222. fuana has joined
  223. paul has joined
  224. lskdjf has joined
  225. moparisthebest has left
  226. intosi has joined
  227. mukt2 has joined
  228. lovetox has left
  229. edenist has left
  230. edenist has joined
  231. moparisthebest has joined
  232. intosi has left
  233. debacle has joined
  234. fuana has left
  235. fuana has joined
  236. pasdesushi has joined
  237. pasdesushi has left
  238. pasdesushi has joined
  239. sonny has left
  240. sonny has joined
  241. Andrzej has joined
  242. pasdesushi has left
  243. pasdesushi has joined
  244. intosi has joined
  245. pasdesushi has left
  246. lskdjf has left
  247. pasdesushi has joined
  248. lskdjf has joined
  249. lovetox has joined
  250. pasdesushi has left
  251. pasdesushi has joined
  252. mukt2 has left
  253. deuill has left
  254. pasdesushi has left
  255. mukt2 has joined
  256. intosi has left
  257. deuill has joined
  258. j.r has joined
  259. andy has joined
  260. chronosx88 has left
  261. chronosx88 has joined
  262. fuana has left
  263. fuana has joined
  264. govanify has left
  265. govanify has joined
  266. papatutuwawa has joined
  267. Andrzej has left
  268. pasdesushi has joined
  269. pasdesushi has left
  270. pasdesushi has joined
  271. Andrzej has joined
  272. intosi has joined
  273. pasdesushi has left
  274. pasdesushi has joined
  275. debacle has left
  276. fuana has left
  277. pasdesushi has left
  278. pasdesushi has joined
  279. pasdesushi has left
  280. pasdesushi has joined
  281. pasdesushi has left
  282. intosi has left
  283. pasdesushi has joined
  284. andrey.g has joined
  285. pasdesushi has left
  286. pasdesushi has joined
  287. intosi has joined
  288. floretta has joined
  289. moparisthebest has left
  290. pasdesushi has left
  291. antranigv has joined
  292. moparisthebest has joined
  293. pasdesushi has joined
  294. intosi has left
  295. pasdesushi has left
  296. intosi has joined
  297. Link Mauve has joined
  298. deuill has left
  299. intosi has left
  300. emus has joined
  301. deuill has joined
  302. pasdesushi has joined
  303. LNJ has joined
  304. pasdesushi has left
  305. pasdesushi has joined
  306. alacer has left
  307. pasdesushi has left
  308. papatutuwawa has left
  309. intosi has joined
  310. david has left
  311. alacer has joined
  312. krauq has left
  313. krauq has joined
  314. lovetox has left
  315. intosi has left
  316. pasdesushi has joined
  317. pasdesushi has left
  318. pasdesushi has joined
  319. lovetox has joined
  320. pasdesushi has left
  321. intosi has joined
  322. raghavgururajan has joined
  323. intosi has left
  324. paul has left
  325. paul has joined
  326. krauq has left
  327. krauq has joined
  328. wladmis has joined
  329. lovetox has left
  330. andrey.g has left
  331. lovetox has joined
  332. intosi has joined
  333. Andrzej has left
  334. lovetox has left
  335. sonny has left
  336. Andrzej has joined
  337. intosi has left
  338. peetah has left
  339. Andrzej has left
  340. peetah has joined
  341. Calvin has joined
  342. intosi has joined
  343. govanify has left
  344. govanify has joined
  345. Andrzej has joined
  346. marc Is there a specification for client backups?
  347. papatutuwawa has joined
  348. Zash https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0227.html is the closest I can think of
  349. SamWhited It seems like that would be very client specific
  350. marc Thanks, that's a good starting point
  351. marc SamWhited: no I think the most important parts could be generic
  352. intosi has left
  353. Zash You can always throw in a client-specific extension under a custom namespace
  354. SamWhited Fair point; I can't imagine that working very well, but if we could make it work it would be neat. Maybe mandate that you preserve unknown elements on the next export or something so that it will grow forever, but if you go back to an old client you still have your previous client-specific bits.
  355. wladmis has left
  356. wladmis has joined
  357. SamWhited Or maybe most people always just stick to a single client and it's fine 99% of the time.
  358. marc > You can always throw in a client-specific extension under a custom namespace Exactly
  359. marc Maybe I find some time to write something down
  360. Zash Missing a way to store PEP and MAM data (= local archive?) in there tho.
  361. Andrzej has left
  362. marc With a common backup format we could also achieve that we can move from one client software to another
  363. lovetox has joined
  364. Maranda has left
  365. Maranda has joined
  366. marc With a common backup format we could also achieve that we can migrate from one client software to another
  367. Maranda has left
  368. Maranda has joined
  369. antranigv has left
  370. alameyo has left
  371. Maranda has left
  372. Aleksej has joined
  373. intosi has joined
  374. alameyo has joined
  375. krauq has left
  376. krauq has joined
  377. deuill has left
  378. inky has left
  379. dwd has left
  380. papatutuwawa has left
  381. deuill has joined
  382. Andrzej has joined
  383. intosi has left
  384. peetah has left
  385. peetah has joined
  386. Lance has joined
  387. dwd has joined
  388. Andrzej has left
  389. peetah has left
  390. peetah has joined
  391. Maranda has joined
  392. inky has joined
  393. Andrzej has joined
  394. alacer has left
  395. peetah has left
  396. peetah has joined
  397. intosi has joined
  398. LNJ has left
  399. alacer has joined
  400. papatutuwawa has joined
  401. Maranda has left
  402. intosi has left
  403. Andrzej has left
  404. paul has left
  405. paul has joined
  406. peetah has left
  407. Andrzej has joined
  408. intosi has joined
  409. peetah has joined
  410. Neustradamus has left
  411. Neustradamus has joined
  412. intosi has left
  413. Andrzej has left
  414. peetah has left
  415. Andrzej has joined
  416. jcbrand has left
  417. peetah has joined
  418. Maranda has joined
  419. lovetox has left
  420. jcbrand has joined
  421. intosi has joined
  422. chronosx88 has left
  423. chronosx88 has joined
  424. Maranda has left
  425. papatutuwawa has left
  426. lovetox has joined
  427. Maranda has joined
  428. govanify has left
  429. govanify has joined
  430. papatutuwawa has joined
  431. intosi has left
  432. lovetox has left
  433. werdan has joined
  434. krauq has left
  435. krauq has joined
  436. intosi has joined
  437. LNJ has joined
  438. Ge0rG Or we could just store everything on the server and use a QR code of the login credentials to onboard the second client.
  439. Zash Store the whole client in the server, use some kind of shared secret to access it!
  440. chronosx88 has left
  441. chronosx88 has joined
  442. alex-a-soto has left
  443. alex-a-soto has joined
  444. lovetox has joined
  445. intosi has left
  446. krauq has left
  447. krauq has joined
  448. Ge0rG Zash: using a document transmission protocol?
  449. Zash That sounds appropriate
  450. marc Ge0rG: not sure if trolling
  451. debacle has joined
  452. Lance has left
  453. xsf has left
  454. intosi has joined
  455. MattJ Nobody ever is
  456. MattJ FWIW I've been thinking about this recently, would love to see it solved
  457. xsf has joined
  458. MattJ Also live migration between clients
  459. MattJ Which can be done fairly easily once such a format is standardized
  460. intosi has left
  461. david has joined
  462. antranigv has joined
  463. govanify has left
  464. govanify has joined
  465. lorddavidiii has left
  466. intosi has joined
  467. edenist has left
  468. edenist has joined
  469. lorddavidiii has joined
  470. lovetox has left
  471. moparisthebest has left
  472. intosi has left
  473. Seve has left
  474. xecks has left
  475. xecks has joined
  476. chronosx88 has left
  477. chronosx88 has joined
  478. xsf has left
  479. intosi has joined
  480. lovetox has joined
  481. lovetox what data is there to migrate?
  482. lovetox messages are in MAM, contacts are in roster
  483. lovetox what is there else?
  484. lionelexecrec has left
  485. lionelexecrec has joined
  486. xsf has joined
  487. Zash Messages in local archive, expired from MAM. E2EE secrets. Other settings.
  488. DebXWoody has left
  489. sonny has joined
  490. adiaholic has left
  491. Zash Whatever is stored on the local machine that.
  492. Zash Whatever is stored on the local machine
  493. mohammed89noah has joined
  494. mohammed89noah has left
  495. antranigv has left
  496. Maranda has left
  497. intosi has left
  498. lionelexecrec has left
  499. lionelexecrec has joined
  500. Maranda has joined
  501. Mikaela has left
  502. MattJ lovetox: recent messages are in MAM, client history may be more extensive
  503. MattJ And with encryption MAM is useless to a new client anyway, without some migration/bootstrapping mechanism
  504. Zash At least in case of e2ee with forward secrecy, like omemo.
  505. lovetox yeah thats true
  506. moparisthebest has joined
  507. antranigv has joined
  508. lovetox writing a XEP to exchange old messages should not be a big challenge
  509. lionelexecrec has left
  510. lionelexecrec has joined
  511. Calvin has left
  512. Andrzej has left
  513. intosi has joined
  514. lionelexecrec has left
  515. lionelexecrec has joined
  516. antranigv has left
  517. kd4wov@jabber.org has joined
  518. kd4wov@jabber.org has left
  519. intosi has left
  520. intosi has joined
  521. Andrzej has joined
  522. jcbrand has left
  523. xsf has left
  524. Andrzej has left
  525. chronosx88 has left
  526. adiaholic has joined
  527. intosi has left
  528. papatutuwawa has left
  529. Maranda has left
  530. Maranda has joined
  531. deuill has left
  532. Maranda has left
  533. Maranda has joined
  534. lorddavidiii has left
  535. lorddavidiii has joined
  536. deuill has joined
  537. intosi has joined
  538. Maranda has left
  539. Maranda has joined
  540. sonny has left
  541. sonny has joined
  542. Andrzej has joined
  543. werdan has left
  544. wladmis has left
  545. marc lovetox: true, but I would like to backup omemo keys and config as well
  546. SamWhited I still want client-to-client MAM
  547. Zash Just Do It
  548. Andrzej has left
  549. lovetox the idea about the signal protocol was that you dont have to manage your key
  550. lovetox now backing it up, transfering it to other devices, and encrypting it in the process proabably
  551. lovetox sounds a lot like pgp
  552. intosi has left
  553. marc Well, I just want to backup and restore my Gajim, Dino, whatever installation
  554. marc And the omemo key is an essential part of it
  555. lovetox thats not the same as migrating to another client
  556. marc Migration to another client software is basically the same, no?
  557. lovetox and i dont see why we would need to standardize how to backup a dino installation
  558. lovetox no i dont think its the same
  559. lovetox for backing up your software, there are a million solutions out there
  560. lovetox for migrating to another client, there are 0 solutions out there
  561. marc Well, not the installation but the local data
  562. marc I think we can have both with a standardized exchange format
  563. LNJ has left
  564. LNJ has joined
  565. marc lovetox, sure, I can backup my .local/whatever/gajim folder and the .config/whatever/gajim folder but an export solution via the gui or a "gajim --export myaccount@example.com" command would be much easier for most users
  566. marc I don't see why we should not use a client migration solution for backups as well
  567. lovetox because it makes not much sense to migrate everything to another client
  568. marc for example?
  569. MattJ Just today someone migrated from Snikket on an old phone to a new phone... it was not as easy as it could be, that's for sure
  570. lovetox everything except messages :D
  571. MattJ And that is with a proprietary backup format already
  572. lovetox really everything else is just much much work for very little gain
  573. marc well, I would like to migrate my pictures etc. as well
  574. lovetox its not daily business that people migrate to other clients
  575. lovetox a xmpp client is not your picture archive
  576. adiaholic has left
  577. marc tell that an xmpp user...
  578. marc Oh, you can migrate from Gajim to Dino but everything is lost...
  579. marc or "sure you can, but you have only your messages but all pictures are gone"
  580. marc hm?
  581. marc That's bad ux
  582. Andrzej has joined
  583. marc IMO, of course
  584. intosi has joined
  585. adiaholic has joined
  586. arc has left
  587. arc has joined
  588. lovetox has left
  589. Andrzej has left
  590. intosi has left
  591. xsf has joined
  592. wladmis has joined
  593. intosi has joined
  594. lorddavidiii has left
  595. intosi has left
  596. raghavgururajan has left