XSF Discussion - 2020-12-28


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  553. marc Here is an example how I would do an export / client migration: https://paste.centos.org/view/b09f3029
  554. marc I use the <delay> element to store the message time
  555. jonas’ isn’t there a XEP for that?
  556. marc Of course, lot's of omemo infos are missing
  557. jonas’ ah, client side
  558. marc client side, yes
  559. jonas’ "stuff you only need with strange E2EE :-X"
  560. jonas’ "stuff you only need with strange E2EE" :-X
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  562. marc I would call it "State of the art E2EE in IM"
  563. marc :D
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  565. marc Still, you need that without e2ee too
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  573. lovetox marc stanza-id needs to be in there
  574. lovetox this means i need to save every message so i can convert it back to xml
  575. lovetox for example i dont save the resource from which the message came
  576. lovetox never had the need for that
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  593. marc lovetox, okay, good point
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  595. marc Dino stores that information
  596. marc lovetox, isn't the id attribute the stanza id?
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  598. Zash it's not
  599. Zash maybe it was clearer when it was called archive-id
  600. marc ah, okay
  601. marc what's the reason not using the id attribute as uuid?
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  603. Zash This feels like one of the recurring discussions we have. I'm hoping the reasoning is written down somewhere.
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  605. marc No, I don't want to discuss this. A pointer to the reason would be enough :D
  606. jonas’ historically, there is no guarantee that the id attribute is sufficiently unique
  607. MattJ MAM archives need a unique id to reference stored messages. The id attribute is not guaranteed to be present or unique (it is controlled by the sending client)
  608. MattJ Early versions of XEP-0313 added an element: <archived by='[address of archive]' id='[archive id of message]' />
  609. MattJ Then it was decided that it would be generally useful if other XEPs could use these guaranteed unique ids as well, so it was split out to stanza-id
  610. MattJ The id attribute remains useful to the sending client as a way of tracking error responses (kind of), but for long-term unique identifiers, stanza-id is the preferred way to refer to a stanza
  611. MattJ origin-id was added to the stanza-id XEP as a hacky workaround for certain MUC services that did not preserve the 'id' attribute on messages, but I sense that most people would like to see that to be removed now
  612. Zash Errors having the same id as the stanza they are an error-reply to makes @id non-unique..
  613. jonas’ true
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  615. Zash In a backup it would make some sense to stick <stanza-id by="local client full jid" id="whatever primary key of local database"/> in there
  616. Zash Althoooooo
  617. Zash You need (@from, @id) for uniqueness in any case, and errors would have @to/@from swapped.
  618. marc Ah, thanks for the explanation
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  624. marc New version that generates <stanza-id> elements and omits to/from for the own account: https://paste.centos.org/view/75801e0e
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  650. Ge0rG Zash [17:16]: > In a backup it would make some sense to stick <stanza-id by="local client full jid" id="whatever primary key of local database"/> in there But what if your local database is using auto increment integer?
  651. Zash What about it?
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  653. Ge0rG A stanza-id must be globally unique
  654. Zash Does it?
  655. Zash It's still scoped by stanza-id/@by, no?
  656. Ge0rG Oh, right!
  657. Ge0rG So it doesn't guarantee the one thing it was supposed to fix about @id
  658. Ge0rG Despite the title
  659. Ge0rG You had one job, XEP-0359
  660. Zash > It is RECOMMENDED that the ID generating service uses UUID
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  786. moparisthebest today I learned something new, that XMPP is a "store and forward" protocol which makes it unsuitable for messaging
  787. moparisthebest however, Signal *is* suitable for messaging
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  790. moparisthebest I'm waiting in suspense for the explanation, but I'm guessing it'll never come
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  799. edhelas moparisthebest we should make XMPP over Signal Protocol then, should solve this problem
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  806. moparisthebest he responded, many XEPs are in draft and he was in a big company once and the user list made xmpp "fall over"
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  809. moparisthebest don't get what this has to do with Signal but oh well
  810. moparisthebest why do I even talk to people on the fediverse lol
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  821. edhelas time to build a social network on top of XMPP !
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  857. Link Mauve I remember some xeps.xml file listing every XEP published, do you remember where it is?
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  860. Zash It got replaced by something with a slightly different format
  861. Zash xeps-list.xml or somesuch?
  862. Zash Link Mauve, https://xmpp.org/extensions/xeplist.xml
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  903. Link Mauve Thanks. :)
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