XSF Discussion - 2020-12-28


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  553. marc

    Here is an example how I would do an export / client migration: https://paste.centos.org/view/b09f3029

  554. marc

    I use the <delay> element to store the message time

  555. jonas’

    isn’t there a XEP for that?

  556. marc

    Of course, lot's of omemo infos are missing

  557. jonas’

    ah, client side

  558. marc

    client side, yes

  559. jonas’

    "stuff you only need with strange E2EE :-X"

  560. jonas’

    "stuff you only need with strange E2EE" :-X

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  562. marc

    I would call it "State of the art E2EE in IM"

  563. marc

    :D

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  565. marc

    Still, you need that without e2ee too

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  573. lovetox

    marc stanza-id needs to be in there

  574. lovetox

    this means i need to save every message so i can convert it back to xml

  575. lovetox

    for example i dont save the resource from which the message came

  576. lovetox

    never had the need for that

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  593. marc

    lovetox, okay, good point

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  595. marc

    Dino stores that information

  596. marc

    lovetox, isn't the id attribute the stanza id?

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  598. Zash

    it's not

  599. Zash

    maybe it was clearer when it was called archive-id

  600. marc

    ah, okay

  601. marc

    what's the reason not using the id attribute as uuid?

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  603. Zash

    This feels like one of the recurring discussions we have. I'm hoping the reasoning is written down somewhere.

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  605. marc

    No, I don't want to discuss this. A pointer to the reason would be enough :D

  606. jonas’

    historically, there is no guarantee that the id attribute is sufficiently unique

  607. MattJ

    MAM archives need a unique id to reference stored messages. The id attribute is not guaranteed to be present or unique (it is controlled by the sending client)

  608. MattJ

    Early versions of XEP-0313 added an element: <archived by='[address of archive]' id='[archive id of message]' />

  609. MattJ

    Then it was decided that it would be generally useful if other XEPs could use these guaranteed unique ids as well, so it was split out to stanza-id

  610. MattJ

    The id attribute remains useful to the sending client as a way of tracking error responses (kind of), but for long-term unique identifiers, stanza-id is the preferred way to refer to a stanza

  611. MattJ

    origin-id was added to the stanza-id XEP as a hacky workaround for certain MUC services that did not preserve the 'id' attribute on messages, but I sense that most people would like to see that to be removed now

  612. Zash

    Errors having the same id as the stanza they are an error-reply to makes @id non-unique..

  613. jonas’

    true

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  615. Zash

    In a backup it would make some sense to stick <stanza-id by="local client full jid" id="whatever primary key of local database"/> in there

  616. Zash

    Althoooooo

  617. Zash

    You need (@from, @id) for uniqueness in any case, and errors would have @to/@from swapped.

  618. marc

    Ah, thanks for the explanation

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  624. marc

    New version that generates <stanza-id> elements and omits to/from for the own account: https://paste.centos.org/view/75801e0e

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  650. Ge0rG

    Zash [17:16]: > In a backup it would make some sense to stick <stanza-id by="local client full jid" id="whatever primary key of local database"/> in there But what if your local database is using auto increment integer?

  651. Zash

    What about it?

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  653. Ge0rG

    A stanza-id must be globally unique

  654. Zash

    Does it?

  655. Zash

    It's still scoped by stanza-id/@by, no?

  656. Ge0rG

    Oh, right!

  657. Ge0rG

    So it doesn't guarantee the one thing it was supposed to fix about @id

  658. Ge0rG

    Despite the title

  659. Ge0rG

    You had one job, XEP-0359

  660. Zash

    > It is RECOMMENDED that the ID generating service uses UUID

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  786. moparisthebest

    today I learned something new, that XMPP is a "store and forward" protocol which makes it unsuitable for messaging

  787. moparisthebest

    however, Signal *is* suitable for messaging

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  790. moparisthebest

    I'm waiting in suspense for the explanation, but I'm guessing it'll never come

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  799. edhelas

    moparisthebest we should make XMPP over Signal Protocol then, should solve this problem

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  806. moparisthebest

    he responded, many XEPs are in draft and he was in a big company once and the user list made xmpp "fall over"

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  809. moparisthebest

    don't get what this has to do with Signal but oh well

  810. moparisthebest

    why do I even talk to people on the fediverse lol

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  821. edhelas

    time to build a social network on top of XMPP !

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  857. Link Mauve

    I remember some xeps.xml file listing every XEP published, do you remember where it is?

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  860. Zash

    It got replaced by something with a slightly different format

  861. Zash

    xeps-list.xml or somesuch?

  862. Zash

    Link Mauve, https://xmpp.org/extensions/xeplist.xml

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  903. Link Mauve

    Thanks. :)

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