XSF Discussion - 2021-01-06


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  637. Guus MUC-wise, what type of stanza should be prevented from being sent based on `muc#roomconfig_allowpm` - all types of stanza, or only message stanzas?
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  720. lovetox depends, are you going to implement a roomconfig_allowiq?
  721. lovetox The XEP says, its for allowing sending messages
  722. lovetox so i would say only messages
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  725. lovetox if you block IQ this would break other stuff, like avatars for example
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  728. dwd Avatar IQs shouldn't get passed through directly anyway - otherwise you're querying the full jid not the bare. So they get handled differently.
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  730. Zash Isn't that how it works in some implementations?
  731. dwd I think some implementations intercept vCard to full jid, yes.
  732. dwd And some (most, these days?) intercept MUC vCard IQs.
  733. Zash This undocumented behavior everyone implement and expect....
  734. Guus is roomconfig_allowiq even a thing?
  735. dwd It is if you want it to be. ;-)
  736. Guus XEP-0045 doesn't specify it, only roomconfig_allowpm
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  743. lovetox Guus, MUC also does not specify passing IQs on, but i guess you do it?
  744. lovetox dwd, why would you say Avatar IQs should not get passed through?
  745. lovetox is there any part of the XEP that sepcifically allows Vcard IQs but not all other IQs?
  746. MattJ Is there any part of the XEP that says iqs should be routed at all?
  747. Ge0rG 0045 is very vague
  748. Zash NAFAIK
  749. Zash Or, maybe? 🤷️
  750. dwd lovetox, Well if you simply pass them through, they hit the server with a full jid and don't work.
  751. Zash (unless the server hijacks full jid IQs)
  752. lovetox dwd, maybe you underestimate what hacks servers implemented
  753. lovetox last time this topic came up you could even query pubusb of anonymous users :D
  754. lovetox this was discussed on the list
  755. larma Zash, the server is supposed to hijack iqs to full jid for vcard iirc
  756. larma > In accordance with XMPP Core [5], a compliant server MUST respond on behalf of the requestor and not forward the IQ to the requestee's connected resource.
  757. Zash Where does it say that?
  758. larma xep 0054
  759. Zash That's just under > A user may view another user's vCard by sending an IQ of type "get" to the other user's bare JID.
  760. Zash note *bare JID*
  761. lovetox larma, but if you send a iq to an anonymous muc jid, nothing says the server needs to map this to real jids and then answer
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  763. larma well, MUCs don't support IQs
  764. lovetox works quite well here :D
  765. larma MUC servers doing IQs operate outside the spec
  766. lovetox i even transfer jingle via MUCs
  767. lovetox yeah but all that was discussed anyway, but it seem to be stalled
  768. MattJ > MUC servers doing IQs operate outside the spec 100% agree that it's not in the spec, but all the servers are doing it and all the clients are expecting it
  769. larma well, we only need it for avatars in semi-anon mucs anyway
  770. larma maybe we should just solve this one thing and then stop again doing iqs in mucs
  771. MattJ We recently extended it to support PEP queries in Prosody
  772. larma yeah, even worse
  773. MattJ Well we're working to deprecate vcard-temp, so choose "worse"
  774. lovetox why do we need avatars in anonymous mucs?
  775. lovetox i would question that assumption
  776. larma lovetox, well, some users apparently want that feature
  777. lovetox i think they want avatars, and dont care about anonmous mucs
  778. larma IQ routing in MUCs only make sense for semi-anon MUCs, but exactly in semi-anon MUCs you actually typicall don't want them because they often break anonymity. It would be okish if servers would not route them to bare JIDs for vcard/pep because then the client can decide that they want to not share their vcard/avatar with certain user. The current Prosody behavior basically means semi-anon MUCs are broken in Prosody (because most users have public PEP nodes for OMEMO with their public key on it which uniquely identify them).
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  781. larma I mean, we can probably argue if semi-anon MUCs are needed at all. Many messengers don't have them. But I also know multiple persons that decided they don't want to use Matrix specifically because it doesn't have semi-anon group chats, so there seems to be some amount of users interested in this feature
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  786. Zash I'm open for having the iq routing stuff be configurable per room.
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  788. dwd In most cases, semi-anon rooms seem to be used to shield the Jid, rather than hide the identity.
  789. mimi89999 Please keep semi anon rooms or everybody who ever joins any popular MUC will be flooded with spam and will never get rid of it.
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  831. lovetox larma, this people thats so absolutely need semi anonmous mucs, are probably fine when we tell them they dont have the nice things there
  832. lovetox Gajim 1.3, will not use vcard-temp anymore, only pep for vcard and avatar
  833. lovetox and both will be in access_mode=presence by default
  834. lovetox so no avatars anymore in rooms for these users, except they specifically set the "i want to make it public"
  835. Zash I saw the privacy control for that, really nice 😀
  836. lovetox setting
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  844. MattJ Yay
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  846. larma lovetox, that's great. unfortunately, many servers now convert presence-only 0084 avatars to world-public 0153 avatars due to 0398 (80% of servers according to https://compliance.conversations.im/test/xep0398/)
  847. Zash I don't think that's accurate
  848. Zash At least the 398 implementation shipped with Prosody respects the permissions on the 0084 node(s) when handling a vcard-temp query.
  849. larma wait, what? You added a out-of-spec permission system to vcard-temp?
  850. Zash You could say that. It's a view over pep avatar+vcard4 tho, and the whole thing is meant to go in the trash once vcard-temp is gone.
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  852. larma ah, there is mod_vcard and mod_vcard_legacy and they both implement vcard-temp, just in different ways
  853. Zash You can make the avatar public the same way you make OMEMO stuff public
  854. Zash Yeah, mod_vcard_legacy is meant as a transition mechanism to PEP-only
  855. Zash So with the data stored in PEP, it made sense to respect the PEP permission model when composing the legacy vcard from PEP parts
  856. Zash If you only use vcard-temp, things stay public, but if you use PEP you get more control
  857. Zash Whether the "you" here is the client or user is up to the client/-devs 🙂
  858. larma yeah makes sense
  859. Zash Isn't this covered by (or at least implied by) https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0398.html#security
  860. larma well, it says "in the future" 🙂
  861. Zash > Last Updated 2018-08-27 It's 2021, the future is now!
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