XSF Discussion - 2021-01-22

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  271. purplebeetroot Just food for thoughts: With fossdem happening online, might be nice to create some MUC prior to the event start, to help those that wish to do something there to coordinate. (matrix does so and +100 people joined)
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  331. emus > Escribí: > Hi arc, dave (dwd ?), matthew (Wild?), ralphm and Seve - please approve and merge if you are satisfied: https://github.com/xsf/xmpp.org/pull/871 Good day, are you planning any review/comment and I should wait, or what is the process?
  332. flow emus, there is potentially no process
  333. jonas’ emus, commteam is the owner of the website.
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  335. emus Okay
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  349. Zash HTTP Upload‽ https://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=15607&cid=2048735
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  352. MattJ :)
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  358. Kev JEP-0129?
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  360. Zash Indeed
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  387. theTedd emus, https://dpaste.org/XbmE -- a heavy edit; feel free to use as little/much as you like 😉
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  389. emus Thank you theTedd, sorry for asking this - are you a native english speaker?
  390. theTedd
  391. jonas’ theTedd, thanks!
  392. theTedd small correction; https://dpaste.org/a7ex
  393. emus Okay great. I will put this into the draft tonight and then merge
  394. theTedd 👍
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  399. emus theTedd - that is a great edit
  400. emus may I just keep the title 1 and the 2. sub title or is that a heavy mistake/weird expression?
  401. theTedd I think they both imply the same thing, so just choose one or the other
  402. emus The second one is actually finishing the first one in my opinion
  403. theTedd it matches with that to repeat the point, yes
  404. emus yes, that is my intention
  405. theTedd "The App Shouldn't Matter" and "Technology Not Apps" are a pair
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  407. emus Yes I understand, but I preferred to keep state the first half of my though (but also the written statement) then add the second half to finish. So my question was: were my titles technically correct?
  408. theTedd there's nothing wrong with them grammatically, no
  409. emus Yes I understand, but I preferred to keep stateing the first half of my though (but also the written statement) then add the second half to finish. So my question was: were my titles technically correct?
  410. emus okay, then I took almost everything from your review 🙂
  411. emus Happy to merge tonight!
  412. emus As I link to the Getting started page, any comments on this: https://github.com/xsf/xmpp.org/pull/870
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  414. theTedd "The following links each give you lists of publicly available providers." => "The following links provide lists of publicly available providers."
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  416. emus thanks, will edit 'ater
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  420. emus thanks, will edit later
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  422. emus End of January is actually coming closer and we head for the first release of the XMPP Newletter in 2021. Everyone invited to drop their news until 2nd of Feb. Newsletter on December/January: https://github.com/xsf/xmpp.org/pull/851 (Go to Files changes/Edit File) Or drop your news text to you online pad: https://yopad.eu/p/xmpp-newsletter-365days 📝☕
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  448. mathieui The process of updating a protoxep during approval period is just "send a motivated merge request and get an editor to agree", right?
  449. dwd mathieui, No.
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  452. dwd mathieui, It's not IPR-controlled by the XSF yet, so really you need to talk to the proposer.
  453. mathieui dwd, I mean, as a proposer of course
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  456. mathieui otherwise yes, that makes sense
  457. dwd Oh! Then yeah!
  458. mathieui Thanks!
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  477. SamWhited editors: multiplexing was accepted as XEP-0451 and it's on the website, but it doesn't appear to be in the repo. Did something go wrong with the process?
  478. SamWhited (/cc jonas’ I think? I never remember who's doing editor stuff these days)
  479. jonas’ I am
  480. jonas’ SamWhited, pushed, sorry
  481. SamWhited thankx
  482. SamWhited thanks, even
  483. jonas’ SamWhited, in general, editor@muc.xmpp.org might be the place :)
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  486. SamWhited Then I'd have to join a room I'm not already in ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  487. SamWhited And remember what that room is
  488. arc has joined
  489. arc SamWhited: Know that feeling 😅
  490. arc There is a lot of room for improvement with xmpp group chat
  491. SamWhited I do often wish we had something sort of like email where I can send a broadcast without actually joining or receiving replies (unless they're directed directly to me)
  492. SamWhited Like an email alias or a mailing list that allows writes without joining
  493. arc The directed to you part is one thing we need to really address
  494. arc SamWhited: tagging systems like this are lazy, dating back to plain text IRC
  495. SamWhited arc: tagging systems? I don't think that's a term I've heard before
  496. arc Taking a message for a specific recipient within a group chat
  497. arc Tagging
  498. arc Flagging?
  499. Zash One of the first plugins I wrote for Prosody was a way to send messages to other groups without joining them (porting behavior previously performed by a bot).
  500. Zash So you could write editors: The thing seems to be weird And they could reply with xsf: Fixed, thanks!
  501. SamWhited oooh, nice, I like that idea as a feature
  502. arc But can't we do better than that?
  503. Zash MIX?
  504. arc I mean, how we specify who the message is intended for?
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  507. Zash References?
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  509. SamWhited References lets us specify text that should be highlighted or whatever, but we still need the actual feature built on top of it to @mention someone, other rooms on the server, maybe autocomplete, etc.
  510. SamWhited Whatever that ends up looking like.
  511. Zash I don't actually know if MIX inherited the property of PubSub of publishing being separate from subscriptions.
  512. Zash SamWhited, so, we need implementations? Agree.
  513. arc Implementations are always the problem
  514. SamWhited Zash: do we have a feature to implement?
  515. SamWhited I don't think references really gives us any of that, it just says "you can highlight stuff in the body"
  516. arc You know for most of us, covid19 plus winter means a ton of alone time inside. Sitting down and just hammering out a bunch of XMPP work on our respective software would be a great use of this time
  517. mathieui arc, if only it was that easy, though :x
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  519. arc Why isn't it?
  520. Zash SamWhited, and say that it's type=mention and uri=xmpp:yourjid ?
  521. Zash And then either the client does something or the server does something like https://xmpp.org/extensions/inbox/muc-mention-notifications.html
  522. SamWhited Sounds good to me
  523. arc I would be happy to grab the Julython code and set it up for, say, March, with participation prices like t-shirts and stuff, classy name and art
  524. SamWhited arc: that's a fun idea, I love a good hackathon
  525. SamWhited (I think the XMPP library I make actually started as a hackathon project for HipChat, then got rewritten later on my own time so Atlassian wouldn't own it)
  526. mathieui arc, not saying it is a bad idea or anything, but more than anything it’s pretty hard to focus due to all the externalities (depending on how your country handles covid)
  527. SamWhited This is true. ⤴️
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  529. arc Sure yes. It just seems like we all have these little bouts of energy that usually just fizzles out after we have a discussion about it without much code being written
  530. SamWhited I've been trying to do more XMPP work on weekends and after work on my day job (and thinking about it a lot when I should be doing my job like right this moment) but there's also just the fact that being in front of a computer all day working on crap I hate makes me desperately not want to continue being in front of a computer even for things I like working on
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  535. mathieui But if there’s something setup I would be happy to participate anyway, even if I may not do a lot!
  536. arc You know what, I'm going to write a SCAM proposal for this. Even if it is online only.
  537. mathieui (and I am kind of in the same situation as SamWhited)
  538. SamWhited Having a lot of people in a room working on different things is a good motivator, even if less work gets done in some ways because you're distracted and chatting and what not
  539. SamWhited "room" being the virtual kind of room, of course
  540. arc I agree
  541. arc I get so much more work done at sprints and hackathons than solo focused time.
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  543. SamWhited I end up chatting for most of it and not getting much done, but then I have a ton of ideas from talking to people and am fired up about it so it gets done later
  544. SamWhited Unless it's a team thing actually, I guess I've gotten a ton done in those now that I think about it
  545. arc I was very much the opposite for me, I get fired up early in the sprint with talking about this stuff, I usually blast out a lot of work over the second half
  546. SamWhited This reminds me, there's a hackathon coming up at work. I think I'm going to be slightly self-serving and do some work that's relevant to my day job but is open source in upstream projects I use in my XMPP stuff.
  547. SamWhited It's a win-win.
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  549. arc What are you doing for work these days?
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  551. arc And catchy name brainstorm?
  552. SamWhited arc: DHCP/IPAM/DNS stuff. I'd be curious what you're up to these days too, we should catch up out of band.
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  554. SamWhited HaXMPPathon?
  555. SamWhited (maybe not)
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  557. arc I'm thinking something I could have one of our artists make logos and t-shirt art for
  558. arc You know I did not get a single conference shirt last year. Not one. I think that's the first in like 20 years
  559. arc But everyday I drink tea and water out of a hackathon mug that I got from a gnome sprint 5 years ago.
  560. arc It could be a play on words, like including the word March but using it like walking in formation
  561. arc Even if that is a bit english-centric
  562. Zash PhalanX March?
  563. mdosch Like 'March of freedom'?
  564. arc Code March?
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  567. mdosch Trampling down the bugs?
  568. mdosch 🤣
  569. arc It would also be handy if the name led easily to ideas for the artist(s) making swag art
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  571. arc ralphm: mattj: Seve: dwd: it's that time again
  572. MattJ ohai
  573. dwd It is indeed.
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  575. Seve I apologise, I'm on mobile and on a unstable connection, I'll try to follow but can't do much more, sorry :(
  576. arc ralphm: ?
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  580. arc Well we have quorum but I'm not sure we have an agenda. Dwd have you substitute chaired yet?
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  583. dwd I have not, but I am in a meeting that's overrun at work, so I can pay some attention but not enough to chair.
  584. dwd (I mean, the meeting is that we've won a major contract and we're drinking, so...)
  585. arc Actually I slept through last week's meeting
  586. dwd You got more out of it than we did then.
  587. arc We really need to get her act together this year 😅
  588. Seve Yes
  589. arc S/her/our
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  593. MattJ Sounds like we barely have a quorum, shall we continue or skip? I don't have anything to bring up other than my concern about FOSDEM and (apparent?) lack of SCAM activity
  594. MattJ But without anyone representing SCAM a meeting won't fix anything there
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  596. arc Well you're drinking, seve is on a unstable connection, and I don't think any of us have agenda items. I don't see how we could have a meeting
  597. dwd True enough. But we do need to gain some oversight/leadership of SCAM and the summit.
  598. dwd So before I get more than halfway down my pint, we could agree that.
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  600. MattJ Agreed to that
  601. Seve nods
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  604. dwd Who has time and cycles amongst us to do that?
  605. MattJ Nobody :P (which is probably similar for SCAM I assume)
  606. MattJ I can try and do some poking this week
  607. MattJ But I'm the worst option if there is anyone else with more time
  608. arc I know from a different organization that I'm with that Fosdem really needs our details like last week.
  609. dwd Yes, true. It'd be great to just get an idea of what's happening, if nothign else. Can we at least commit to discuss on list?
  610. MattJ I don't even know if we applied for or received a stand
  611. dwd Me neither.
  612. arc We, as in board or scam?
  613. dwd arc, Yes.
  614. MattJ The board did nothing, we agreed to let SCAM handle it
  615. arc We as a board already decided to send Fosdem to scam.
  616. MattJ (as is usual)
  617. dwd Did SCAM know we did?
  618. arc That was another week that we're off wasn't here
  619. Andrzej has left
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  621. arc I don't even know who is a member of scam anymore
  622. arc But then Ralph said that he was going to take care of it, I think?
  623. arc IDK I have only been to Fosdem once, and only because Google paid for my trip. It's even harder now from the west coast US
  624. Zash https://fosdem.org/2021/news/2020-12-11-stands-cfp/ > The deadline is the 25th of December.
  625. MattJ I'll post to the list
  626. dwd Sounds lik a sensible first step.
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  631. Seve Thank you
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  656. emus I would like to invite everyone to take a little review if there are any branches that can be deleted: https://github.com/xsf/xmpp.org/branches
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  659. emus I removed a few already 🚮️ but Im not entirely sure for all of the left ones
  660. Zash Closed + merged are probably fine to drop
  661. emus Yes I thought so
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  664. Zash Newsletter branches from 2019 can probably go too, why are they even there?
  665. Zash dependabot?
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  667. emus because they got never merged as this, but you need to ask the authors from that time
  668. emus no clue
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  719. mathieui https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0379.html#general_idea I just noted that the coloring on this schema is pretty funny
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  722. Zash funky
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  728. mathieui emus, how long does it take for a blog post to appear on the website?
  729. emus zash?
  730. emus iteam?
  731. mathieui (I have no issues if it takes time, I was just surprised to not see it on the blog yet)
  732. Zash Is it merged? Is the build complete? Then I think at midnight.
  733. Zash If anyone has opinions on how to configure the update cronjob then I'm all ears.
  734. mathieui nah, I’m good
  735. mathieui if I understand it properly, building the website is a bit tricky and pelican is not very happy with our usage
  736. Zash Don't forget Docker
  737. Zash and Docker hub rate limits
  738. Ge0rG an angry bird.
  739. Zash IIRC it's currently set to some time in the morning, some time early in the evening and midnight
  740. Zash In which timezone ... is anyones guess.
  741. Zash Better than no automation at all and hoping someone from iteam is awake I hope.
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  744. mathieui yeah, it’s not like the website is evolving fast enough to justify doing it more often
  745. mathieui I’m just comparing to my own blog deployment (with pelican too) which takes 5 seconds after the push :p
  746. mathieui (but I have neither a complex website nor a real need for isolation)
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  748. Zash My own is instant, but then I push directly to production ;)
  749. Zash ...and build in produciton
  750. mathieui I did that at some point so I will not judge you
  751. Zash Build on push to production, in production. WCGW
  752. marek has left
  753. Zash Nothing, that's what, it's perfect. Also my personal website, I'll survive without it.
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  756. Zash Ok I think it's UTC, so +4h
  757. Zash Can poke it if anyone feels strongly that now is a better time to publish
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  764. emus thanks for replying
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  767. wurstsalat Link Mauve, is the code (layout+css) for https://linkmauve.fr/software/clients.html published somewhere?
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  769. mathieui wurstsalat, https://git.linkmauve.fr/xmpp-doap.git probably (although I do not know how up-to-date that is)
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  771. wurstsalat mathieui, that’s not including this page afaict
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  774. mathieui wurstsalat, my understanding is that this goes on top of the already built website
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