XSF Discussion - 2021-01-22

  1. purplebeetroot

    Just food for thoughts: With fossdem happening online, might be nice to create some MUC prior to the event start, to help those that wish to do something there to coordinate. (matrix does so and +100 people joined)

  2. emus

    > Escribí: > Hi arc, dave (dwd ?), matthew (Wild?), ralphm and Seve - please approve and merge if you are satisfied: https://github.com/xsf/xmpp.org/pull/871 Good day, are you planning any review/comment and I should wait, or what is the process?

  3. flow

    emus, there is potentially no process

  4. jonas’

    emus, commteam is the owner of the website.

  5. emus


  6. Zash

    HTTP Upload‽ https://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=15607&cid=2048735

  7. MattJ


  8. Kev


  9. Zash


  10. theTedd

    emus, https://dpaste.org/XbmE -- a heavy edit; feel free to use as little/much as you like 😉

  11. emus

    Thank you theTedd, sorry for asking this - are you a native english speaker?

  12. theTedd

  13. jonas’

    theTedd, thanks!

  14. theTedd

    small correction; https://dpaste.org/a7ex

  15. emus

    Okay great. I will put this into the draft tonight and then merge

  16. theTedd


  17. emus

    theTedd - that is a great edit

  18. emus

    may I just keep the title 1 and the 2. sub title or is that a heavy mistake/weird expression?

  19. theTedd

    I think they both imply the same thing, so just choose one or the other

  20. emus

    The second one is actually finishing the first one in my opinion

  21. theTedd

    it matches with that to repeat the point, yes

  22. emus

    yes, that is my intention

  23. theTedd

    "The App Shouldn't Matter" and "Technology Not Apps" are a pair

  24. emus

    Yes I understand, but I preferred to keep state the first half of my though (but also the written statement) then add the second half to finish. So my question was: were my titles technically correct?

  25. theTedd

    there's nothing wrong with them grammatically, no

  26. emus

    Yes I understand, but I preferred to keep stateing the first half of my though (but also the written statement) then add the second half to finish. So my question was: were my titles technically correct?

  27. emus

    okay, then I took almost everything from your review 🙂

  28. emus

    Happy to merge tonight!

  29. emus

    As I link to the Getting started page, any comments on this: https://github.com/xsf/xmpp.org/pull/870

  30. theTedd

    "The following links each give you lists of publicly available providers." => "The following links provide lists of publicly available providers."

  31. emus

    thanks, will edit 'ater

  32. emus

    thanks, will edit later

  33. emus

    End of January is actually coming closer and we head for the first release of the XMPP Newletter in 2021. Everyone invited to drop their news until 2nd of Feb. Newsletter on December/January: https://github.com/xsf/xmpp.org/pull/851 (Go to Files changes/Edit File) Or drop your news text to you online pad: https://yopad.eu/p/xmpp-newsletter-365days 📝☕

  34. mathieui

    The process of updating a protoxep during approval period is just "send a motivated merge request and get an editor to agree", right?

  35. dwd

    mathieui, No.

  36. dwd

    mathieui, It's not IPR-controlled by the XSF yet, so really you need to talk to the proposer.

  37. mathieui

    dwd, I mean, as a proposer of course

  38. mathieui

    otherwise yes, that makes sense

  39. dwd

    Oh! Then yeah!

  40. mathieui


  41. SamWhited

    editors: multiplexing was accepted as XEP-0451 and it's on the website, but it doesn't appear to be in the repo. Did something go wrong with the process?

  42. SamWhited

    (/cc jonas’ I think? I never remember who's doing editor stuff these days)

  43. jonas’

    I am

  44. jonas’

    SamWhited, pushed, sorry

  45. SamWhited


  46. SamWhited

    thanks, even

  47. jonas’

    SamWhited, in general, editor@muc.xmpp.org might be the place :)

  48. SamWhited

    Then I'd have to join a room I'm not already in ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

  49. SamWhited

    And remember what that room is

  50. arc

    SamWhited: Know that feeling 😅

  51. arc

    There is a lot of room for improvement with xmpp group chat

  52. SamWhited

    I do often wish we had something sort of like email where I can send a broadcast without actually joining or receiving replies (unless they're directed directly to me)

  53. SamWhited

    Like an email alias or a mailing list that allows writes without joining

  54. arc

    The directed to you part is one thing we need to really address

  55. arc

    SamWhited: tagging systems like this are lazy, dating back to plain text IRC

  56. SamWhited

    arc: tagging systems? I don't think that's a term I've heard before

  57. arc

    Taking a message for a specific recipient within a group chat

  58. arc


  59. arc


  60. Zash

    One of the first plugins I wrote for Prosody was a way to send messages to other groups without joining them (porting behavior previously performed by a bot).

  61. Zash

    So you could write editors: The thing seems to be weird And they could reply with xsf: Fixed, thanks!

  62. SamWhited

    oooh, nice, I like that idea as a feature

  63. arc

    But can't we do better than that?

  64. Zash


  65. arc

    I mean, how we specify who the message is intended for?

  66. Zash


  67. SamWhited

    References lets us specify text that should be highlighted or whatever, but we still need the actual feature built on top of it to @mention someone, other rooms on the server, maybe autocomplete, etc.

  68. SamWhited

    Whatever that ends up looking like.

  69. Zash

    I don't actually know if MIX inherited the property of PubSub of publishing being separate from subscriptions.

  70. Zash

    SamWhited, so, we need implementations? Agree.

  71. arc

    Implementations are always the problem

  72. SamWhited

    Zash: do we have a feature to implement?

  73. SamWhited

    I don't think references really gives us any of that, it just says "you can highlight stuff in the body"

  74. arc

    You know for most of us, covid19 plus winter means a ton of alone time inside. Sitting down and just hammering out a bunch of XMPP work on our respective software would be a great use of this time

  75. mathieui

    arc, if only it was that easy, though :x

  76. arc

    Why isn't it?

  77. Zash

    SamWhited, and say that it's type=mention and uri=xmpp:yourjid ?

  78. Zash

    And then either the client does something or the server does something like https://xmpp.org/extensions/inbox/muc-mention-notifications.html

  79. SamWhited

    Sounds good to me

  80. arc

    I would be happy to grab the Julython code and set it up for, say, March, with participation prices like t-shirts and stuff, classy name and art

  81. SamWhited

    arc: that's a fun idea, I love a good hackathon

  82. SamWhited

    (I think the XMPP library I make actually started as a hackathon project for HipChat, then got rewritten later on my own time so Atlassian wouldn't own it)

  83. mathieui

    arc, not saying it is a bad idea or anything, but more than anything it’s pretty hard to focus due to all the externalities (depending on how your country handles covid)

  84. SamWhited

    This is true. ⤴️

  85. arc

    Sure yes. It just seems like we all have these little bouts of energy that usually just fizzles out after we have a discussion about it without much code being written

  86. SamWhited

    I've been trying to do more XMPP work on weekends and after work on my day job (and thinking about it a lot when I should be doing my job like right this moment) but there's also just the fact that being in front of a computer all day working on crap I hate makes me desperately not want to continue being in front of a computer even for things I like working on

  87. mathieui

    But if there’s something setup I would be happy to participate anyway, even if I may not do a lot!

  88. arc

    You know what, I'm going to write a SCAM proposal for this. Even if it is online only.

  89. mathieui

    (and I am kind of in the same situation as SamWhited)

  90. SamWhited

    Having a lot of people in a room working on different things is a good motivator, even if less work gets done in some ways because you're distracted and chatting and what not

  91. SamWhited

    "room" being the virtual kind of room, of course

  92. arc

    I agree

  93. arc

    I get so much more work done at sprints and hackathons than solo focused time.

  94. SamWhited

    I end up chatting for most of it and not getting much done, but then I have a ton of ideas from talking to people and am fired up about it so it gets done later

  95. SamWhited

    Unless it's a team thing actually, I guess I've gotten a ton done in those now that I think about it

  96. arc

    I was very much the opposite for me, I get fired up early in the sprint with talking about this stuff, I usually blast out a lot of work over the second half

  97. SamWhited

    This reminds me, there's a hackathon coming up at work. I think I'm going to be slightly self-serving and do some work that's relevant to my day job but is open source in upstream projects I use in my XMPP stuff.

  98. SamWhited

    It's a win-win.

  99. arc

    What are you doing for work these days?

  100. arc

    And catchy name brainstorm?

  101. SamWhited

    arc: DHCP/IPAM/DNS stuff. I'd be curious what you're up to these days too, we should catch up out of band.

  102. SamWhited


  103. SamWhited

    (maybe not)

  104. arc

    I'm thinking something I could have one of our artists make logos and t-shirt art for

  105. arc

    You know I did not get a single conference shirt last year. Not one. I think that's the first in like 20 years

  106. arc

    But everyday I drink tea and water out of a hackathon mug that I got from a gnome sprint 5 years ago.

  107. arc

    It could be a play on words, like including the word March but using it like walking in formation

  108. arc

    Even if that is a bit english-centric

  109. Zash

    PhalanX March?

  110. mdosch

    Like 'March of freedom'?

  111. arc

    Code March?

  112. mdosch

    Trampling down the bugs?

  113. mdosch


  114. arc

    It would also be handy if the name led easily to ideas for the artist(s) making swag art

  115. arc

    ralphm: mattj: Seve: dwd: it's that time again

  116. MattJ


  117. dwd

    It is indeed.

  118. Seve

    I apologise, I'm on mobile and on a unstable connection, I'll try to follow but can't do much more, sorry :(

  119. arc

    ralphm: ?

  120. arc

    Well we have quorum but I'm not sure we have an agenda. Dwd have you substitute chaired yet?

  121. dwd

    I have not, but I am in a meeting that's overrun at work, so I can pay some attention but not enough to chair.

  122. dwd

    (I mean, the meeting is that we've won a major contract and we're drinking, so...)

  123. arc

    Actually I slept through last week's meeting

  124. dwd

    You got more out of it than we did then.

  125. arc

    We really need to get her act together this year 😅

  126. Seve


  127. arc


  128. MattJ

    Sounds like we barely have a quorum, shall we continue or skip? I don't have anything to bring up other than my concern about FOSDEM and (apparent?) lack of SCAM activity

  129. MattJ

    But without anyone representing SCAM a meeting won't fix anything there

  130. arc

    Well you're drinking, seve is on a unstable connection, and I don't think any of us have agenda items. I don't see how we could have a meeting

  131. dwd

    True enough. But we do need to gain some oversight/leadership of SCAM and the summit.

  132. dwd

    So before I get more than halfway down my pint, we could agree that.

  133. MattJ

    Agreed to that

  134. Seve nods

  135. dwd

    Who has time and cycles amongst us to do that?

  136. MattJ

    Nobody :P (which is probably similar for SCAM I assume)

  137. MattJ

    I can try and do some poking this week

  138. MattJ

    But I'm the worst option if there is anyone else with more time

  139. arc

    I know from a different organization that I'm with that Fosdem really needs our details like last week.

  140. dwd

    Yes, true. It'd be great to just get an idea of what's happening, if nothign else. Can we at least commit to discuss on list?

  141. MattJ

    I don't even know if we applied for or received a stand

  142. dwd

    Me neither.

  143. arc

    We, as in board or scam?

  144. dwd

    arc, Yes.

  145. MattJ

    The board did nothing, we agreed to let SCAM handle it

  146. arc

    We as a board already decided to send Fosdem to scam.

  147. MattJ

    (as is usual)

  148. dwd

    Did SCAM know we did?

  149. arc

    That was another week that we're off wasn't here

  150. arc

    I don't even know who is a member of scam anymore

  151. arc

    But then Ralph said that he was going to take care of it, I think?

  152. arc

    IDK I have only been to Fosdem once, and only because Google paid for my trip. It's even harder now from the west coast US

  153. Zash

    https://fosdem.org/2021/news/2020-12-11-stands-cfp/ > The deadline is the 25th of December.

  154. MattJ

    I'll post to the list

  155. dwd

    Sounds lik a sensible first step.

  156. Seve

    Thank you

  157. emus

    I would like to invite everyone to take a little review if there are any branches that can be deleted: https://github.com/xsf/xmpp.org/branches

  158. emus

    I removed a few already 🚮️ but Im not entirely sure for all of the left ones

  159. Zash

    Closed + merged are probably fine to drop

  160. emus

    Yes I thought so

  161. Zash

    Newsletter branches from 2019 can probably go too, why are they even there?

  162. Zash


  163. emus

    because they got never merged as this, but you need to ask the authors from that time

  164. emus

    no clue

  165. mathieui

    https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0379.html#general_idea I just noted that the coloring on this schema is pretty funny

  166. Zash


  167. mathieui

    emus, how long does it take for a blog post to appear on the website?

  168. emus


  169. emus


  170. mathieui

    (I have no issues if it takes time, I was just surprised to not see it on the blog yet)

  171. Zash

    Is it merged? Is the build complete? Then I think at midnight.

  172. Zash

    If anyone has opinions on how to configure the update cronjob then I'm all ears.

  173. mathieui

    nah, I’m good

  174. mathieui

    if I understand it properly, building the website is a bit tricky and pelican is not very happy with our usage

  175. Zash

    Don't forget Docker

  176. Zash

    and Docker hub rate limits

  177. Ge0rG

    an angry bird.

  178. Zash

    IIRC it's currently set to some time in the morning, some time early in the evening and midnight

  179. Zash

    In which timezone ... is anyones guess.

  180. Zash

    Better than no automation at all and hoping someone from iteam is awake I hope.

  181. mathieui

    yeah, it’s not like the website is evolving fast enough to justify doing it more often

  182. mathieui

    I’m just comparing to my own blog deployment (with pelican too) which takes 5 seconds after the push :p

  183. mathieui

    (but I have neither a complex website nor a real need for isolation)

  184. Zash

    My own is instant, but then I push directly to production ;)

  185. Zash

    ...and build in produciton

  186. mathieui

    I did that at some point so I will not judge you

  187. Zash

    Build on push to production, in production. WCGW

  188. Zash

    Nothing, that's what, it's perfect. Also my personal website, I'll survive without it.

  189. Zash

    Ok I think it's UTC, so +4h

  190. Zash

    Can poke it if anyone feels strongly that now is a better time to publish

  191. emus

    thanks for replying

  192. wurstsalat

    Link Mauve, is the code (layout+css) for https://linkmauve.fr/software/clients.html published somewhere?

  193. mathieui

    wurstsalat, https://git.linkmauve.fr/xmpp-doap.git probably (although I do not know how up-to-date that is)

  194. wurstsalat

    mathieui, that’s not including this page afaict

  195. mathieui

    wurstsalat, my understanding is that this goes on top of the already built website