XSF Discussion - 2021-01-22

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  271. purplebeetroot

    Just food for thoughts: With fossdem happening online, might be nice to create some MUC prior to the event start, to help those that wish to do something there to coordinate. (matrix does so and +100 people joined)

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  331. emus

    > Escribí: > Hi arc, dave (dwd ?), matthew (Wild?), ralphm and Seve - please approve and merge if you are satisfied: https://github.com/xsf/xmpp.org/pull/871 Good day, are you planning any review/comment and I should wait, or what is the process?

  332. flow

    emus, there is potentially no process

  333. jonas’

    emus, commteam is the owner of the website.

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  335. emus


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  349. Zash

    HTTP Upload‽ https://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=15607&cid=2048735

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  387. theTedd

    emus, https://dpaste.org/XbmE -- a heavy edit; feel free to use as little/much as you like 😉

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  389. emus

    Thank you theTedd, sorry for asking this - are you a native english speaker?

  390. theTedd

  391. jonas’

    theTedd, thanks!

  392. theTedd

    small correction; https://dpaste.org/a7ex

  393. emus

    Okay great. I will put this into the draft tonight and then merge

  394. theTedd


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  399. emus

    theTedd - that is a great edit

  400. emus

    may I just keep the title 1 and the 2. sub title or is that a heavy mistake/weird expression?

  401. theTedd

    I think they both imply the same thing, so just choose one or the other

  402. emus

    The second one is actually finishing the first one in my opinion

  403. theTedd

    it matches with that to repeat the point, yes

  404. emus

    yes, that is my intention

  405. theTedd

    "The App Shouldn't Matter" and "Technology Not Apps" are a pair

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  407. emus

    Yes I understand, but I preferred to keep state the first half of my though (but also the written statement) then add the second half to finish. So my question was: were my titles technically correct?

  408. theTedd

    there's nothing wrong with them grammatically, no

  409. emus

    Yes I understand, but I preferred to keep stateing the first half of my though (but also the written statement) then add the second half to finish. So my question was: were my titles technically correct?

  410. emus

    okay, then I took almost everything from your review 🙂

  411. emus

    Happy to merge tonight!

  412. emus

    As I link to the Getting started page, any comments on this: https://github.com/xsf/xmpp.org/pull/870

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  414. theTedd

    "The following links each give you lists of publicly available providers." => "The following links provide lists of publicly available providers."

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  416. emus

    thanks, will edit 'ater

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  420. emus

    thanks, will edit later

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  422. emus

    End of January is actually coming closer and we head for the first release of the XMPP Newletter in 2021. Everyone invited to drop their news until 2nd of Feb. Newsletter on December/January: https://github.com/xsf/xmpp.org/pull/851 (Go to Files changes/Edit File) Or drop your news text to you online pad: https://yopad.eu/p/xmpp-newsletter-365days 📝☕

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  448. mathieui

    The process of updating a protoxep during approval period is just "send a motivated merge request and get an editor to agree", right?

  449. dwd

    mathieui, No.

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  452. dwd

    mathieui, It's not IPR-controlled by the XSF yet, so really you need to talk to the proposer.

  453. mathieui

    dwd, I mean, as a proposer of course

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  456. mathieui

    otherwise yes, that makes sense

  457. dwd

    Oh! Then yeah!

  458. mathieui


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  477. SamWhited

    editors: multiplexing was accepted as XEP-0451 and it's on the website, but it doesn't appear to be in the repo. Did something go wrong with the process?

  478. SamWhited

    (/cc jonas’ I think? I never remember who's doing editor stuff these days)

  479. jonas’

    I am

  480. jonas’

    SamWhited, pushed, sorry

  481. SamWhited


  482. SamWhited

    thanks, even

  483. jonas’

    SamWhited, in general, editor@muc.xmpp.org might be the place :)

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  486. SamWhited

    Then I'd have to join a room I'm not already in ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

  487. SamWhited

    And remember what that room is

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  489. arc

    SamWhited: Know that feeling 😅

  490. arc

    There is a lot of room for improvement with xmpp group chat

  491. SamWhited

    I do often wish we had something sort of like email where I can send a broadcast without actually joining or receiving replies (unless they're directed directly to me)

  492. SamWhited

    Like an email alias or a mailing list that allows writes without joining

  493. arc

    The directed to you part is one thing we need to really address

  494. arc

    SamWhited: tagging systems like this are lazy, dating back to plain text IRC

  495. SamWhited

    arc: tagging systems? I don't think that's a term I've heard before

  496. arc

    Taking a message for a specific recipient within a group chat

  497. arc


  498. arc


  499. Zash

    One of the first plugins I wrote for Prosody was a way to send messages to other groups without joining them (porting behavior previously performed by a bot).

  500. Zash

    So you could write editors: The thing seems to be weird And they could reply with xsf: Fixed, thanks!

  501. SamWhited

    oooh, nice, I like that idea as a feature

  502. arc

    But can't we do better than that?

  503. Zash


  504. arc

    I mean, how we specify who the message is intended for?

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  507. Zash


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  509. SamWhited

    References lets us specify text that should be highlighted or whatever, but we still need the actual feature built on top of it to @mention someone, other rooms on the server, maybe autocomplete, etc.

  510. SamWhited

    Whatever that ends up looking like.

  511. Zash

    I don't actually know if MIX inherited the property of PubSub of publishing being separate from subscriptions.

  512. Zash

    SamWhited, so, we need implementations? Agree.

  513. arc

    Implementations are always the problem

  514. SamWhited

    Zash: do we have a feature to implement?

  515. SamWhited

    I don't think references really gives us any of that, it just says "you can highlight stuff in the body"

  516. arc

    You know for most of us, covid19 plus winter means a ton of alone time inside. Sitting down and just hammering out a bunch of XMPP work on our respective software would be a great use of this time

  517. mathieui

    arc, if only it was that easy, though :x

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  519. arc

    Why isn't it?

  520. Zash

    SamWhited, and say that it's type=mention and uri=xmpp:yourjid ?

  521. Zash

    And then either the client does something or the server does something like https://xmpp.org/extensions/inbox/muc-mention-notifications.html

  522. SamWhited

    Sounds good to me

  523. arc

    I would be happy to grab the Julython code and set it up for, say, March, with participation prices like t-shirts and stuff, classy name and art

  524. SamWhited

    arc: that's a fun idea, I love a good hackathon

  525. SamWhited

    (I think the XMPP library I make actually started as a hackathon project for HipChat, then got rewritten later on my own time so Atlassian wouldn't own it)

  526. mathieui

    arc, not saying it is a bad idea or anything, but more than anything it’s pretty hard to focus due to all the externalities (depending on how your country handles covid)

  527. SamWhited

    This is true. ⤴️

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  529. arc

    Sure yes. It just seems like we all have these little bouts of energy that usually just fizzles out after we have a discussion about it without much code being written

  530. SamWhited

    I've been trying to do more XMPP work on weekends and after work on my day job (and thinking about it a lot when I should be doing my job like right this moment) but there's also just the fact that being in front of a computer all day working on crap I hate makes me desperately not want to continue being in front of a computer even for things I like working on

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  535. mathieui

    But if there’s something setup I would be happy to participate anyway, even if I may not do a lot!

  536. arc

    You know what, I'm going to write a SCAM proposal for this. Even if it is online only.

  537. mathieui

    (and I am kind of in the same situation as SamWhited)

  538. SamWhited

    Having a lot of people in a room working on different things is a good motivator, even if less work gets done in some ways because you're distracted and chatting and what not

  539. SamWhited

    "room" being the virtual kind of room, of course

  540. arc

    I agree

  541. arc

    I get so much more work done at sprints and hackathons than solo focused time.

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  543. SamWhited

    I end up chatting for most of it and not getting much done, but then I have a ton of ideas from talking to people and am fired up about it so it gets done later

  544. SamWhited

    Unless it's a team thing actually, I guess I've gotten a ton done in those now that I think about it

  545. arc

    I was very much the opposite for me, I get fired up early in the sprint with talking about this stuff, I usually blast out a lot of work over the second half

  546. SamWhited

    This reminds me, there's a hackathon coming up at work. I think I'm going to be slightly self-serving and do some work that's relevant to my day job but is open source in upstream projects I use in my XMPP stuff.

  547. SamWhited

    It's a win-win.

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  549. arc

    What are you doing for work these days?

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  551. arc

    And catchy name brainstorm?

  552. SamWhited

    arc: DHCP/IPAM/DNS stuff. I'd be curious what you're up to these days too, we should catch up out of band.

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  554. SamWhited


  555. SamWhited

    (maybe not)

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  557. arc

    I'm thinking something I could have one of our artists make logos and t-shirt art for

  558. arc

    You know I did not get a single conference shirt last year. Not one. I think that's the first in like 20 years

  559. arc

    But everyday I drink tea and water out of a hackathon mug that I got from a gnome sprint 5 years ago.

  560. arc

    It could be a play on words, like including the word March but using it like walking in formation

  561. arc

    Even if that is a bit english-centric

  562. Zash

    PhalanX March?

  563. mdosch

    Like 'March of freedom'?

  564. arc

    Code March?

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  567. mdosch

    Trampling down the bugs?

  568. mdosch


  569. arc

    It would also be handy if the name led easily to ideas for the artist(s) making swag art

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  571. arc

    ralphm: mattj: Seve: dwd: it's that time again

  572. MattJ


  573. dwd

    It is indeed.

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  575. Seve

    I apologise, I'm on mobile and on a unstable connection, I'll try to follow but can't do much more, sorry :(

  576. arc

    ralphm: ?

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  580. arc

    Well we have quorum but I'm not sure we have an agenda. Dwd have you substitute chaired yet?

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  583. dwd

    I have not, but I am in a meeting that's overrun at work, so I can pay some attention but not enough to chair.

  584. dwd

    (I mean, the meeting is that we've won a major contract and we're drinking, so...)

  585. arc

    Actually I slept through last week's meeting

  586. dwd

    You got more out of it than we did then.

  587. arc

    We really need to get her act together this year 😅

  588. Seve


  589. arc


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  593. MattJ

    Sounds like we barely have a quorum, shall we continue or skip? I don't have anything to bring up other than my concern about FOSDEM and (apparent?) lack of SCAM activity

  594. MattJ

    But without anyone representing SCAM a meeting won't fix anything there

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  596. arc

    Well you're drinking, seve is on a unstable connection, and I don't think any of us have agenda items. I don't see how we could have a meeting

  597. dwd

    True enough. But we do need to gain some oversight/leadership of SCAM and the summit.

  598. dwd

    So before I get more than halfway down my pint, we could agree that.

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  600. MattJ

    Agreed to that

  601. Seve nods

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  604. dwd

    Who has time and cycles amongst us to do that?

  605. MattJ

    Nobody :P (which is probably similar for SCAM I assume)

  606. MattJ

    I can try and do some poking this week

  607. MattJ

    But I'm the worst option if there is anyone else with more time

  608. arc

    I know from a different organization that I'm with that Fosdem really needs our details like last week.

  609. dwd

    Yes, true. It'd be great to just get an idea of what's happening, if nothign else. Can we at least commit to discuss on list?

  610. MattJ

    I don't even know if we applied for or received a stand

  611. dwd

    Me neither.

  612. arc

    We, as in board or scam?

  613. dwd

    arc, Yes.

  614. MattJ

    The board did nothing, we agreed to let SCAM handle it

  615. arc

    We as a board already decided to send Fosdem to scam.

  616. MattJ

    (as is usual)

  617. dwd

    Did SCAM know we did?

  618. arc

    That was another week that we're off wasn't here

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  621. arc

    I don't even know who is a member of scam anymore

  622. arc

    But then Ralph said that he was going to take care of it, I think?

  623. arc

    IDK I have only been to Fosdem once, and only because Google paid for my trip. It's even harder now from the west coast US

  624. Zash

    https://fosdem.org/2021/news/2020-12-11-stands-cfp/ > The deadline is the 25th of December.

  625. MattJ

    I'll post to the list

  626. dwd

    Sounds lik a sensible first step.

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  631. Seve

    Thank you

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  656. emus

    I would like to invite everyone to take a little review if there are any branches that can be deleted: https://github.com/xsf/xmpp.org/branches

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  659. emus

    I removed a few already 🚮️ but Im not entirely sure for all of the left ones

  660. Zash

    Closed + merged are probably fine to drop

  661. emus

    Yes I thought so

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  664. Zash

    Newsletter branches from 2019 can probably go too, why are they even there?

  665. Zash


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  667. emus

    because they got never merged as this, but you need to ask the authors from that time

  668. emus

    no clue

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  719. mathieui

    https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0379.html#general_idea I just noted that the coloring on this schema is pretty funny

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  722. Zash


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  728. mathieui

    emus, how long does it take for a blog post to appear on the website?

  729. emus


  730. emus


  731. mathieui

    (I have no issues if it takes time, I was just surprised to not see it on the blog yet)

  732. Zash

    Is it merged? Is the build complete? Then I think at midnight.

  733. Zash

    If anyone has opinions on how to configure the update cronjob then I'm all ears.

  734. mathieui

    nah, I’m good

  735. mathieui

    if I understand it properly, building the website is a bit tricky and pelican is not very happy with our usage

  736. Zash

    Don't forget Docker

  737. Zash

    and Docker hub rate limits

  738. Ge0rG

    an angry bird.

  739. Zash

    IIRC it's currently set to some time in the morning, some time early in the evening and midnight

  740. Zash

    In which timezone ... is anyones guess.

  741. Zash

    Better than no automation at all and hoping someone from iteam is awake I hope.

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  744. mathieui

    yeah, it’s not like the website is evolving fast enough to justify doing it more often

  745. mathieui

    I’m just comparing to my own blog deployment (with pelican too) which takes 5 seconds after the push :p

  746. mathieui

    (but I have neither a complex website nor a real need for isolation)

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  748. Zash

    My own is instant, but then I push directly to production ;)

  749. Zash

    ...and build in produciton

  750. mathieui

    I did that at some point so I will not judge you

  751. Zash

    Build on push to production, in production. WCGW

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  753. Zash

    Nothing, that's what, it's perfect. Also my personal website, I'll survive without it.

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  756. Zash

    Ok I think it's UTC, so +4h

  757. Zash

    Can poke it if anyone feels strongly that now is a better time to publish

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  764. emus

    thanks for replying

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  767. wurstsalat

    Link Mauve, is the code (layout+css) for https://linkmauve.fr/software/clients.html published somewhere?

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  769. mathieui

    wurstsalat, https://git.linkmauve.fr/xmpp-doap.git probably (although I do not know how up-to-date that is)

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  771. wurstsalat

    mathieui, that’s not including this page afaict

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  774. mathieui

    wurstsalat, my understanding is that this goes on top of the already built website

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