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08:39:01 Zash
I just realized that XEP-0363 talks about the <header>s as MAY. Does this mean as a server-side implementer I can't actually use that?
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08:42:43 jonas’
depends on whether you control the client
08:42:58 Zash
Not quite worded in an obvious compliance level way tho
08:47:46 Zash
Oh
> the client MUST include all allowed headers that came with the slot assignment.
08:48:06 Zash
So, server MAY include <header>s, client MUST support.
08:48:19 jonas’
:)
08:48:38 flow
I wonder if this is a case where the 'may' should be lowercased
08:48:49 Zash
So I need to file a bug report instead instead of redesigning my thing.
08:48:50 jonas’
I think so
08:50:46 Zash
Let's do it
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08:58:04 Daniel
I don't find that very ambiguous tbg ✎
08:58:09 Daniel
I don't find that very ambiguous tbh ✏
08:58:24 Daniel
But I wrote the thing so I'm obviously biased
08:59:27 dwd
I don't understand the problem - servers might or might not include headers, entirely at their discretion, but if they do then client have to handle them if they expect things to actually work.
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09:00:27 jonas’
dwd, then the MAY is not RFC 2119 language in that context, but just plain english IMO
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09:00:50 jonas’
the action of a server including or not including headers is irrelevant for interop, what is relevant for interop is that clients can deal with the case (where the MUST is also placed)
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09:01:07 Zash
Daniel, mostly because I didn't see the part about clients when I searched, which is isn't in the same spot in the document.
09:01:27 Daniel
Zash: I'd be curious on where and how you use the headers though. Because I started to suspect nobody uses them
09:01:53 dwd
jonas’, One implies the other, indeed, but actually the way RFC 2119 is written, MAY implies MUST on the recipient, and not the other way around.
09:02:39 Zash
Daniel: I recently started on a new implementation and went with passing magic via a Authorization header.
09:03:38 Zash
dwd, oh!
09:03:52 dwd
Zash, Oh?
09:04:03 Zash
re
> MAY implies MUST
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09:04:31 dwd
Zash, Well, what it says is more nuanced, but:
An implementation which does not include a particular option MUST be
prepared to interoperate with another implementation which does
include the option, though perhaps with reduced functionality.
09:04:34 Zash
So, never mind, just me not having read the whole thing into my head yet 🙂
09:04:52 jonas’
dwd, TIL
09:05:08 jonas’
goes back to updating countless instances of sudo(1)
09:05:16 dwd
Zash, So there's an implication here that a client could conform to the server's MAY by ignoring the headers, which we don't want.
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09:06:20 dwd
jonas’, I did my bastion hosts last night, indeed. Got the rest of the estate to do today and our head of infra is off sick so I suppose it's my job now.
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dwd, hah
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09:09:14 dwd
Zash, But anyway MAY send, MUST handle is fine by me. I've generally preferred specifying sender/receiver behaviour separately, and it's especially useful in fun cases like MUST NOT send, SHOULD ignore, where you have legacy behaviour to deal with.
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