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flow
why don't we have 'archived' notifications, or do we?
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MattJ
flow, what do you mean?
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flow
MattJ, I send you a message, your user MAM archives the message AND sends me a notification that it did
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MattJ
Ah, no
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flow
I wonder if that's a bad or good thing, or sometimes good and sometimes bad
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flow
OTOH I can query your features and assume that the message will probably be archives
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MattJ
Server-sent receipts would be nice
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MattJ
So all a client would need to do is ack with 198, and the server would automatically generate a receipt (instead of potentially multiple devices each sending their own)
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mathieui
flow, that would probably be a bit wasteful in terms of resources, wound’nt it? ("ack-ing" every archived message)
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flow
mathieui, not sure about that
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flow
the sending entities connection is probably still "hot"
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mathieui
True.
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mathieui
But since mam preferences are user-wide, would it not make more sense to advertise it, instead of "every message", have a notification when it’s enabled/disabled for remote entities you are chatting with (probably restricted to roster for privacy reasons)
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flow
mathieui, that would be an option, yes. but then you don't know for sure that the message was archived, and more importantly, that the recipient is able to read it (if using a MAM-enabled client)
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flow
I am also not sure that you can or should announce the mam preferences, plus there could be mam configuration that says "archive all message, but not from user x"
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mathieui
indeed
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MattJ
Well the cheaper option is not to ack every message, but bounce errors in any case where an archivable stanza won't be archived (or immediately delivered)
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emus
Good morning, again the question for volunteers to tweet the translation posts. The tweets are prepared already
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mathieui
I have a question regarding MUC invitations; for private rooms, I assume it makes sense to not rely on XEP-0249 but use mediated instead, so that the room can add people in the member list?
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MattJ
Correct
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lovetox
except mathieui the user you send this invite to has enabled "Ignore all messages from contacts not in my roster"
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mathieui
soo… send the two anyway?
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lovetox
its unsolved
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lovetox
there is no perfect way
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lovetox
but yeah i would go with mediated
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lovetox
sending both could work
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lovetox
yeah why not
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lovetox
but sending direct is only useful if you are admin and can add the user beforhand
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lovetox
actually mediated is the only way that makes sense
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lovetox
what the server should do probably is disco the domain once he sees an invite
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lovetox
find out that its a muc
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lovetox
then proceed to deliver the invite also to people that ignore stuff which is not in their contact list
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lovetox
oh wait, thats not even a server setting
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lovetox
clients implement this on their own
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lovetox
nah i think those people just cant get invites 🤷♀️️
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jonas’
also that would open the gate to invite spam which would normally be blocked by ignoring invites from non-contacts :)
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mathieui
yes, although that raises the bar as spammers usually get normal accounts on open IBR servers instead of domains
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lovetox
but clients could do a disco on receiving a invite
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lovetox
and show the user anyway
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lovetox
so yeah use mediated, and clients that implement such options should make it work for mucs
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mathieui
jonas’, though, mediated invites include the JID of the sender, so an additional filter can be used here (only accept if it is from someone in your roster)
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mathieui
at this point bypassing it means it is a very targeted attack
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jonas’
mathieui, which can be forged by a mailicous MUC
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mathieui
yes, but they have to know your roster
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mathieui
though sure, they can say it’s from Link Mauve
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jonas’
for example, yes
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Link Mauve
Why me?! :D
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theTedd
Link Mauve: guilty!
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theTedd
can I get a quick (non-binding) show of intent from everyone for posting tales/talks?
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MattJ
Are we at recorded videos now?
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theTedd
I assumed people could record and post them for group watching on thu-fri
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theTedd
I'm just wondering how are considering doing so
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theTedd
how many
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SamWhited
theTedd: I love the idea, but I'm afraid a week really isn't enough time to prepare a talk even if it is only a 15 minute lightning round. Maybe this weekend if I finish the tasks I need to get done quicker than expected, but this is basically the only time I'll have and we only learned about it yesterday
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SamWhited
I may do a quick summary post of a paragraph or two of what's happened in my various XMPP projects over the last year, that part I'm sure I can find an hour or two to do
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theTedd
I'm aware it was late notice, nothing else seemed to be going on for Summit, so it was more a random idea; I have no problem with moving it to a later date
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Zash
I could, at most, maybe, do a short writeup of stuff I've done. Minimal and outdated experience in video production and giving talks, no chance of refreshing that in a week...
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SamWhited
I'm not sure how long it takes others to prepare something, but for me personally it was definitely short notice. Although I'm not sure anything in my work this past year is talk worthy anyways. Maybe the message Styling stuff, I dunno.
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theTedd
how would 20-21 February suit everyone?
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goffi
theTedd: Hi, same opinion has SamWhited and 20/21 would suit better for me. Is the event supposed to be only for XSF members/XMPP devs, or is it supposed to be open to more general audience? Just to know which audience the talk should target.
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theTedd
I don't see why it should be limited only to members, but I wouldn't assume an entirely novice crowd
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theTedd
some kind of "look what XMPP has to offer" event wouldn't be bad for marketing, but it would have to be a different arrangement to this
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SamWhited
I guess I could do my "Intro to XMPP" talk that I do for lunch-and-learn type things at work sometimes. I haven't given it in a while, and it would probably be completely useless for this crowd, but in a selfish way I might get better feedback on it from this group.
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theTedd
as long as you open with "I know you all know this, I'm looking for feedback (please hurt me)" you should be good
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theTedd
you could take the chance to promote Mellium and the amazing benefits of Go
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MattJ
20-21 sounds good to me. I'm more likely to be able to participate with a bit more notice
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MattJ
I just spent a bunch of time recording my FOSDEM talk this week, it wasn't much fun and I'm not inclined to jump back to recording again right now if I can help it :)
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theTedd
that's understandable
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mathieui
Anyone knows what is the point in having MIX channels in the user’s roster, with no difference at all from other roster items? Since they are only sent to MIX-capable clients, the MIX-PAM part could already do some magic and forward the presence from them without needing roster items, I believe?
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mathieui
(also forces to disco every item because otherwise the roster will be a mess)
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Andrzej
mathieui, it is useful for automatic joining and syncing joined channels between clients
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mathieui
That makes sense, but I wish the items were annotated somehow
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Andrzej
thanks to the roster extensions, client can discover joined channels, users participant id within the channel and us it
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Andrzej
but they are
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Andrzej
but only for MIX capable (or MIX-PAM capable) clients
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mathieui
Hm, that is true in MIX-PAM indeed, I guess I should open a bug report against tigase then
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Andrzej
why? what do you think is incorrect?
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mathieui
Andrzej, my xmpp.cloud test account is not returning any annotations for mix rooms
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Andrzej
do you sent roster query with MIX-PAM annotation?✎ -
Andrzej
do you send roster query with MIX-PAM annotation? ✏
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mathieui
SEND: <iq id="fbb620f617ca4e44a2a146e3d66d8f9c" type="get"><query xmlns="jabber:iq:roster" ver="" /></iq> RECV: …<query xmlns="jabber:iq:roster" ver="6ca9196f751b5c21eafb3c0423bd3e9e">< item name="………" subscription="both" jid="……@mix.xmpp.cloud" /></query>
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mathieui
no, I do not
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Andrzej
then it is correct
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Andrzej
https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0405.html#mix-roster-capability-sharing
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Andrzej
> A MIX client MAY request that the server returns this additional information that annotates roster elements with MIX capability. The server MUST return the additional information. The request is made by extending the standard roster get request by adding a child element <annotate/> to the <query/> element. The <annotate/> element is qualified by the ‘urn:xmpp:mix:roster:0' namespace.
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mathieui
That is true, but it seems a bit cumbersome to me, as you cannot simply use your roster query result, but must filter out things with an additional request
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mathieui
I don’t get why it is done like this (as this only concerns MIX-PAM aware clients, no need to care about breaking compatibility by introducing elements in the normal roster query)
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Andrzej
if you ask for a roster with annotations, then you get full roster with annotated items and you can just filter them out
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mathieui
Yes, I’ll do that, thanks