XSF Discussion - 2021-02-12


  1. emus has left

  2. intosi has joined

  3. nyco has joined

  4. marek has left

  5. intosi has left

  6. Seve has left

  7. stp has left

  8. Vaulor has left

  9. marek has joined

  10. Lance has left

  11. intosi has joined

  12. wladmis has joined

  13. debacle has left

  14. intosi has left

  15. fuana has joined

  16. neshtaxmpp has left

  17. intosi has joined

  18. fuana has left

  19. marek has left

  20. marek has joined

  21. stp has joined

  22. intosi has left

  23. fuana has joined

  24. fuana has left

  25. fuana has joined

  26. stp has left

  27. fuana has left

  28. alameyo has joined

  29. wladmis has left

  30. alameyo has left

  31. wladmis has joined

  32. intosi has joined

  33. stp has joined

  34. intosi has left

  35. wladmis has left

  36. stp has left

  37. alameyo has joined

  38. stpeter has joined

  39. stpeter has left

  40. alameyo has left

  41. eevvoor has left

  42. eevvoor has joined

  43. Seve has joined

  44. wladmis has joined

  45. intosi has joined

  46. govanify has left

  47. govanify has joined

  48. intosi has left

  49. govanify has left

  50. govanify has joined

  51. intosi has joined

  52. marek has left

  53. marek has joined

  54. paul has left

  55. Vaulor has joined

  56. Adi has left

  57. wladmis has left

  58. intosi has left

  59. LNJ has left

  60. govanify has left

  61. govanify has joined

  62. Adi has joined

  63. alameyo has joined

  64. chronosx88 has left

  65. chronosx88 has joined

  66. chronosx88 has left

  67. chronosx88 has joined

  68. intosi has joined

  69. wladmis has joined

  70. Yagiza has joined

  71. andrey.g has left

  72. murabito has left

  73. chronosx88 has left

  74. chronosx88 has joined

  75. murabito has joined

  76. intosi has left

  77. Seve has left

  78. ti_gj06 has joined

  79. govanify has left

  80. govanify has joined

  81. govanify has left

  82. lskdjf has left

  83. govanify has joined

  84. intosi has joined

  85. intosi has left

  86. govanify has left

  87. govanify has joined

  88. govanify has left

  89. govanify has joined

  90. intosi has joined

  91. govanify has left

  92. govanify has joined

  93. intosi has left

  94. Seve has joined

  95. andy has joined

  96. Tobias has joined

  97. intosi has joined

  98. intosi has left

  99. fuana has joined

  100. Adi has left

  101. jcbrand has joined

  102. fuana has left

  103. arc has left

  104. arc has joined

  105. marek has left

  106. marek has joined

  107. Adi has joined

  108. arc has left

  109. arc has joined

  110. arc has left

  111. arc has joined

  112. arc has left

  113. fuana has joined

  114. wurstsalat has joined

  115. arc has joined

  116. intosi has joined

  117. paul has joined

  118. Daniel has joined

  119. fuana has left

  120. fuana has joined

  121. lovetox has left

  122. fuana has left

  123. nyco has left

  124. lovetox has joined

  125. intosi has left

  126. intosi has joined

  127. fuana has joined

  128. marek has left

  129. marek has joined

  130. nyco has joined

  131. fuana has left

  132. fuana has joined

  133. fuana has left

  134. mathijs has left

  135. ti_gj06 has left

  136. krauq has left

  137. fuana has joined

  138. Tobias has left

  139. Tobias has joined

  140. derdaniel has left

  141. derdaniel has joined

  142. krauq has joined

  143. fuana has left

  144. Adi has left

  145. chronosx88 has left

  146. chronosx88 has joined

  147. Adi has joined

  148. emus has joined

  149. Tim has joined

  150. chronosx88 has left

  151. chronosx88 has joined

  152. Guus has joined

  153. murabito has left

  154. murabito has joined

  155. nyco has left

  156. wladmis has left

  157. wladmis has joined

  158. derdaniel has left

  159. derdaniel has joined

  160. nyco has joined

  161. wladmis has left

  162. goffi has joined

  163. wladmis has joined

  164. Steve Kille has left

  165. Steve Kille has joined

  166. marek has left

  167. marek has joined

  168. mathijs has joined

  169. wladmis has left

  170. marek has left

  171. murabito has left

  172. marek has joined

  173. wladmis has joined

  174. stp has joined

  175. wladmis has left

  176. Kev has left

  177. wladmis has joined

  178. Kev has joined

  179. wladmis has left

  180. chronosx88 has left

  181. chronosx88 has joined

  182. wladmis has joined

  183. serge90 has left

  184. murabito has joined

  185. alameyo has left

  186. serge90 has joined

  187. ti_gj06 has joined

  188. chronosx88 has left

  189. chronosx88 has joined

  190. wladmis has left

  191. arc has left

  192. antranigv has left

  193. inky has left

  194. antranigv has joined

  195. chronosx88 has left

  196. chronosx88 has joined

  197. wladmis has joined

  198. chronosx88 has left

  199. chronosx88 has joined

  200. Tim has left

  201. Tim has joined

  202. wladmis has left

  203. wladmis has joined

  204. derdaniel has left

  205. derdaniel has joined

  206. wladmis has left

  207. chronosx88 has left

  208. chronosx88 has joined

  209. wladmis has joined

  210. wladmis has left

  211. Steve Kille has left

  212. Steve Kille has joined

  213. Steve Kille has left

  214. Steve Kille has joined

  215. debacle has joined

  216. chronosx88 has left

  217. chronosx88 has joined

  218. Andrzej has left

  219. wladmis has joined

  220. govanify has left

  221. govanify has joined

  222. uc has joined

  223. uc has left

  224. uc has joined

  225. uc has left

  226. uc has joined

  227. uc has left

  228. uc has joined

  229. derdaniel has left

  230. derdaniel has joined

  231. uc has left

  232. uc has joined

  233. wladmis has left

  234. wladmis has joined

  235. Andrzej has joined

  236. marek has left

  237. marek has joined

  238. uc has left

  239. uc has joined

  240. wladmis has left

  241. wladmis has joined

  242. uc has left

  243. uc has joined

  244. wladmis has left

  245. floretta has left

  246. wladmis has joined

  247. floretta has joined

  248. andrey.g has joined

  249. Andrzej has left

  250. fuana has joined

  251. LNJ has joined

  252. Guus has left

  253. fuana has left

  254. derdaniel has left

  255. uc has left

  256. fuana has joined

  257. Andrzej has joined

  258. Wojtek has joined

  259. marc has left

  260. marc has joined

  261. fuana has left

  262. wladmis has left

  263. wladmis has joined

  264. krauq has left

  265. fuana has joined

  266. krauq has joined

  267. Guus has joined

  268. neshtaxmpp has joined

  269. fuana has left

  270. papatutuwawa has joined

  271. Guus has left

  272. serge90 has left

  273. serge90 has joined

  274. fuana has joined

  275. fuana has left

  276. deuill has left

  277. deuill has joined

  278. Steve Kille has left

  279. Steve Kille has joined

  280. wladmis has left

  281. fuana has joined

  282. marek has left

  283. marek has joined

  284. lskdjf has joined

  285. intosi has left

  286. wladmis has joined

  287. APach has left

  288. APach has joined

  289. papatutuwawa has left

  290. intosi has joined

  291. LNJ has left

  292. LNJ has joined

  293. fuana has left

  294. debacle has left

  295. Adi has left

  296. wladmis has left

  297. wladmis has joined

  298. Adi has joined

  299. alameyo has joined

  300. Steve Kille has left

  301. Steve Kille has joined

  302. fuana has joined

  303. Kev has left

  304. Steve Kille has left

  305. Steve Kille has joined

  306. Steve Kille has left

  307. Kev has joined

  308. Kev has left

  309. Steve Kille has joined

  310. Kev has joined

  311. Steve Kille has left

  312. Steve Kille has joined

  313. fuana has left

  314. wladmis has left

  315. marek has left

  316. Steve Kille has left

  317. Kev has left

  318. Steve Kille has joined

  319. Steve Kille has left

  320. Steve Kille has joined

  321. ti_gj06 has left

  322. Kev has joined

  323. Steve Kille has left

  324. Steve Kille has joined

  325. marek has joined

  326. wladmis has joined

  327. fuana has joined

  328. Steve Kille has left

  329. Steve Kille has joined

  330. fuana has left

  331. nyco has left

  332. marek has left

  333. marek has joined

  334. adiaholic has left

  335. wladmis has left

  336. APach has left

  337. APach has joined

  338. adiaholic has joined

  339. andrey.g has left

  340. Daniel has left

  341. nyco has joined

  342. mathijs has left

  343. mathijs has joined

  344. Daniel has joined

  345. theTedd has joined

  346. ti_gj06 has joined

  347. theTedd

    gentle reminder for 20-21 submissions 😁

  348. Ge0rG

    There is still time!

  349. theTedd

    thanks already to Sam and Thilo ;)

  350. theTedd

    there is! hence the reminder

  351. jonas’

    I’m still lacking inspiration

  352. theTedd

    how would 200 imaginary euros inspire you?

  353. jonas’

    more like: what to put into the application

  354. jonas’

    content-wise

  355. theTedd

    the joys of developing with aioxmpp?

  356. MattJ

    If jonas’ doesn't want the imaginary euros I'll gladly take them off your hands

  357. theTedd

    sold to the Matt with the J!

  358. MattJ

    I'll try not to spend them all at once

  359. theTedd

    14 reasons why you you should start using jabbercat NOW! number 4 will amaze you!!!!!!!

  360. Zash

    Inb4 "How I got 200 imaginary euros" by MattJ

  361. MattJ

    :D

  362. Ge0rG

    "Implement Passive Income with the XMPP Standards Foundation"

  363. theTedd

    pubcoin - a pubsub bitcoin model for online payments

  364. Zash

    "How we brought back the <payment-required/> stanza error"

  365. theTedd

    that one secret all xmpp developers don't want you to know

  366. MattJ

    I'm making notes

  367. theTedd

    cool 👍

  368. Zash

    "How async day saved the, a tale of+++CARRIER LOST"

  369. Adi has left

  370. Adi has joined

  371. theTedd

    that's enough fermented potato juice, Zash

  372. Zash

    Not enough you say? Well it is friday after all.

  373. theTedd

    skål!

  374. SamWhited

    20-21?

  375. SamWhited

    oh, summit 2021? Sorry, wasn't sure what submissions these were or how I'd submitted one :)

  376. theTedd

    can you claim lack of coffee?

  377. marek has left

  378. marek has joined

  379. alacer has left

  380. alacer has joined

  381. SamWhited

    No, plenty of coffee this morning, just didn't know what "submissions" meant without context and got confused by the 2021 with a typo (I assume) dash in the middle :)

  382. Zash

    "submissions" is SMTP over TLS for email submission, silly!

  383. wladmis has joined

  384. theTedd

    no typo, it's 20-21 (Feb 2021)

  385. jonas’

    such confusion

  386. wladmis has left

  387. SamWhited

    02-21?

  388. jonas’

    no, 20th - 21th february

  389. Zash

    /[-012]+/

  390. jonas’

    no, 20th - 21st february

  391. SamWhited

    ooooh, it's a day range

  392. jonas’

    .oO(21st february fox)

  393. theTedd

    the 22st will confuse everyone

  394. Daniel has left

  395. floretta has left

  396. floretta has joined

  397. papatutuwawa has joined

  398. ti_gj06 has left

  399. andrey.g has joined

  400. wladmis has joined

  401. floretta has left

  402. serge90 has left

  403. serge90 has joined

  404. fuana has joined

  405. stpeter has joined

  406. stpeter has left

  407. uc has joined

  408. fuana has left

  409. floretta has joined

  410. uc has left

  411. mathijs has left

  412. mathijs has joined

  413. Daniel has joined

  414. Steve Kille has left

  415. Daniel has left

  416. fuana has joined

  417. fuana has left

  418. Daniel has joined

  419. werdan has joined

  420. Steve Kille has joined

  421. neshtaxmpp has left

  422. neshtaxmpp has joined

  423. papatutuwawa has left

  424. stp has left

  425. Tim has left

  426. floretta has left

  427. arc has joined

  428. LNJ has left

  429. arc

    Almost time for the board meeting

  430. LNJ has joined

  431. fuana has joined

  432. arc

    Ralph, dwd, Seve, mattj

  433. Seve

    Hey

  434. MattJ

    Hey

  435. arc

    Just flagging everyone because I know it helps remind me

  436. arc

    ralphm: are you here? Realizing I spelled your name wrong before

  437. fuana has left

  438. arc

    Okay well we have quorum in any case, do we have an agenda?

  439. Tim has joined

  440. stp has joined

  441. Seve

    I'm not aware of any

  442. sonny has left

  443. sonny has joined

  444. arc

    The only agenda item I would have is gsoc and nobody has submitted any project ideas yet

  445. wladmis has left

  446. arc

    And at 15 minutes after are at the point of having to cancel the meeting

  447. sonny has left

  448. SamWhited

    I'll put something on the wiki today.

  449. SamWhited

    I would also still like to re-add if the agenda is shifting a discussion about the XSF acting as a fiscal sponsor for XMPP related projects.

  450. sonny has joined

  451. arc

    Yeah we have barely even discussed outreachy

  452. marek has left

  453. sonny has left

  454. sonny has joined

  455. krauq has left

  456. krauq has joined

  457. SamWhited

    arc: actually, I don't fully understand what the wiki is asking. Does it want a list of gsoc teasers or the full project that would be the gsoc task if someone were to subscribe?

  458. arc

    Project ideas just like previous years.

  459. arc

    I will write an email too members@ though I am fully aware that most people just ignore those emails

  460. SamWhited

    Neustradamus: I don't want to get into an edit war with you on the wiki, but I changed the title of that SASL/SCRAM page for a reason, why do you think it needs a list of every possible mechanism on the home page?

  461. Kev

    I read all the members@ mails.

  462. arc

    I stand mistaken

  463. Kev

    Kev doesn’t, therefore most must be wrong :D

  464. Neustradamus

    SamWhited: it is for search engine.

  465. Neustradamus

    SamWhited: it is for search engines.

  466. arc

    Your point is valid and accepted. I was mistaken

  467. MattJ

    Neustradamus, the wiki is for people, not search engines

  468. marek has joined

  469. Neustradamus

    The wiki is indexed in search engines.

  470. SamWhited

    Neustradamus: that is not useful, the main page doesn't need to be what comes up when someone searches for a specific sasl mechanism. The page in question will have them listed, that seems good enough. I am going to undo that edit, it just clutters up the main page.

  471. arc

    Does our robots.txt even permit search engine indexing?

  472. arc

    Though I would find the methods interesting, they could be on a sub page?

  473. Neustradamus

    It is really important

  474. Neustradamus

    Official sources are on it

  475. SamWhited

    Neustradamus: giant bold lists in the sidebar are not important, I promise.

  476. SamWhited

    The official source is already the page itself, which still has all of these mechanisms listed.

  477. Neustradamus

    Which help people.

  478. SamWhited

    They don't need to be listed every single place that links to them.

  479. stp has left

  480. LNJ has left

  481. LNJ has joined

  482. SamWhited

    One day I will figure out how to add links on this wiki… after like 4 tries I finally remembered the syntax, but for one link it works and for the second link it doesn't even though they appear identical *grumble, grumble*

  483. SamWhited

    arc: added a possible project that I think will be big enough to take up the whole time

  484. arc

    Cool thanks

  485. SamWhited

    Actually, going to add a second one that I care less about but which might be more useful to the community or more interesting to the students, I assume it's okay to have multiple and the students pick what they want to do if we get some?

  486. fuana has joined

  487. floretta has joined

  488. fuana has left

  489. SamWhited

    > A list of teaser tasks is given in the Project Ideas overview arc: does this mean we should add a link to teaser tasks too? That's what was confusing me I think

  490. Wojtek has left

  491. arc

    Teaser tasks are for students who are applying because we, like most organizations, require students to contribute some code as part of their application process

  492. arc

    Though I'm not sure how the wiki was intended, I really just copied last year's format

  493. sonny has left

  494. arc

    And yes you should provide several ideas for students, and keep in mind that students are not required to select from the list

  495. sonny has joined

  496. SamWhited

    thanks

  497. Kev

    I *think* how I used to do it was to have the Projects listed on the XSF wiki, and the teasers listed on the software group’s pages. I neither pretend that it’s impossible I misremember, nor that this must have been optimal.

  498. SamWhited

    I'll go back and look how it was done in past years, thanks

  499. Daniel

    i, for example, used to tag certain issues as 'teaser-task' and then linked to a filtered list on my issue tracker

  500. antranigv has left

  501. debacle has joined

  502. Lance has joined

  503. fuana has joined

  504. fuana has left

  505. fuana has joined

  506. theTedd has left

  507. fuana has left

  508. floretta has left

  509. ti_gj06 has joined

  510. floretta has joined

  511. stp has joined

  512. antranigv has joined

  513. neshtaxmpp has left

  514. APach has left

  515. fuana has joined

  516. Guus has joined

  517. papatutuwawa has joined

  518. marek has left

  519. marek has joined

  520. arc

    The task list is the most important thing. That is required to actually submit an application

  521. Mikaela has joined

  522. SamWhited

    I reformatted the page with a few project ideas and linked to my "Good intro tasks" tag, although maybe for GSoC students I should add some more difficult stuff. We'll see if anyone is actually interested then I can direct them at other issues I guess.

  523. neshtaxmpp has joined

  524. chronosx88 has left

  525. marek has left

  526. APach has joined

  527. fuana has left

  528. fuana has joined

  529. andrey.g has left

  530. APach has left

  531. APach has joined

  532. marek has joined

  533. lovetox_ has joined

  534. amuza@riseup.net has joined

  535. lovetox_ has left

  536. marek has left

  537. marek has joined

  538. lovetox_ has joined

  539. pasdesushi has joined

  540. fuana has left

  541. fuana has joined

  542. pasdesushi has left

  543. lovetox_ has left

  544. lovetox_ has joined

  545. lovetox_ has left

  546. lovetox_ has joined

  547. lovetox_ has left

  548. lovetox_ has joined

  549. lovetox_ has left

  550. mathijs has left

  551. paul has left

  552. floretta has left

  553. paul has joined

  554. Andrzej has left

  555. govanify has left

  556. govanify has joined

  557. mathijs has joined

  558. stp has left

  559. stp has joined

  560. fuana has left

  561. fuana has joined

  562. lovetox_ has joined

  563. lovetox_ has left

  564. lovetox_ has joined

  565. lovetox_ has left

  566. wladmis has joined

  567. floretta has joined

  568. Daniel has left

  569. krauq has left

  570. krauq has joined

  571. stp has left

  572. Andrzej has joined

  573. wladmis has left

  574. mimi89999 has left

  575. mimi89999 has joined

  576. fuana has left

  577. fuana has joined

  578. jcbrand has left

  579. goffi has left

  580. chronosx88 has joined

  581. fuana has left

  582. fuana has joined

  583. inky has joined

  584. DebXWoody has left

  585. DebXWoody has joined

  586. fuana has left

  587. mimi89999 has left

  588. mimi89999 has joined

  589. chronosx88 has left

  590. Kev has left

  591. Tim has left

  592. Lance has left

  593. lovetox_ has joined

  594. lovetox_ has left

  595. fuana has joined

  596. fuana has left

  597. lovetox_ has joined

  598. Yagiza has left

  599. fuana has joined

  600. fuana has left

  601. chronosx88 has joined

  602. lovetox_ has left

  603. lovetox_ has joined

  604. lovetox_ has left

  605. lovetox_ has joined

  606. lovetox_ has left

  607. fuana has joined

  608. lovetox_ has joined

  609. lovetox_ has left

  610. fuana has left

  611. werdan has left

  612. fuana has joined

  613. fuana has left

  614. mimi89999 has left

  615. mimi89999 has joined

  616. Andrzej has left

  617. Mikaela has left

  618. mimi89999 has left

  619. mimi89999 has joined

  620. mimi89999

    Hello

  621. mimi89999

    I dislike several things about XEP-0389 data forms.

  622. goffi has joined

  623. mimi89999

    First of all, I don't like that forms can have a title. I think that the client should make it clear that it's a form sent by the server or an evil server (I know that registering on an untrusted server is bad) can make the client show a form that would look like a form to log in to a trusted server.

  624. mimi89999

    I said more about it here: https://github.com/dino/dino/pull/990#discussion_r575390603

  625. mimi89999

    Another issue I noticed is that servers might present the same elements under very different UIs. Let's take the ToS as an example. Some servers can show it in the instruction, others can put it in a fixed field or as a label of a bool setting.

  626. mimi89999

    Were there any attempts to improve the situation?

  627. Zash

    There was https://xmpp.org/extensions/inbox/tos.html

  628. Zash

    And data forms are defined by XEP-0004, not 389. And we all hate it, but also don't really want to change it since it's used by everything.

  629. Zash

    And they do present quite an UI/UX challenge.

  630. mimi89999

    Only Gajim implentented 389 fully and can show forms from every server correctly.

  631. Zash

    389 is implemented? This is news to me

  632. mimi89999

    Dino has partial support, that I tried to improve and Siskin also.has partial support.

  633. mimi89999

    Conversation and Monal.don't support them at all

  634. andrey.g has joined

  635. mimi89999

    See this

  636. SamWhited

    I didn't realize that, good to know. I'm all for defining different challenges, I hate dataforms, it was just the thing that's available so I used it.

  637. mimi89999

    https://lebihan.pl/xmpp-upload/index.php/57052777-b4d4-4d10-b0fa-3db30420883a/cN-Gzj4MRSyAHowu1oo-Ow.png

  638. mimi89999

    Or the screenshots under https://github.com/dino/dino/issues/988

  639. Andrzej has joined

  640. lovetox

    iv Gajim does not implement 0389

  641. lovetox

    Gajim does not implement 0389

  642. SamWhited

    That issue doesn't look like 0389 either

  643. lovetox

    mimi89999, ibr is defined in XEP-0077

  644. mimi89999

    lovetox: What do you have then?

  645. lovetox

    0389 trys to make 0077 better, or have a different more flexibel approach

  646. lovetox

    but its not supported by anyone yet to my knowledge

  647. lovetox

    and it does not change forms in any way

  648. mimi89999

    OK. 0077. Sorry for the confusion. I looked at 0004 for the form spec anyway.

  649. mimi89999

    s/389/077/

  650. millesimus has left

  651. millesimus has joined

  652. Tobias has left

  653. goffi has left

  654. ti_gj06 has left

  655. amuza@riseup.net has left

  656. Andrzej has left

  657. emus has left

  658. emus has joined

  659. amuza@riseup.net has joined

  660. mimi89999

    > The XMPP ecosystem has no way to allow clients to display or refer the user to the Terms of Service and Privacy Policy of any given server. Well, IBR forms are a way...

  661. SamWhited

    Most things don't support that though and they're not wrong that this is a major issue for any service that wants to use XMPP and allow third party clients.

  662. SamWhited

    Whoever "they" are.

  663. murabito has left

  664. Zash

    And that's part of the reason for 389, to have a better framework to solve that kind of issue.

  665. mimi89999

    They it's probably jonas’

  666. SamWhited

    Yah, it doesn't actually solve this problem yet, but if we can get to a place where most things support it hopefully it will be easier to add a standard "simple" registration method with a few common fields that everything can implement easier and it will spread quicker than forms (I hope)

  667. SamWhited

    Of course, it relies on implementing a new framework for sending forms first, which is even harder to get implemented than data forms in 0077, so it probably just doesn't solve this issue.

  668. mimi89999

    Some clients already support IBR forms.

  669. SamWhited

    "some" is not "most" unfortunately. And it's very few I suspect.

  670. murabito has joined

  671. andy has left

  672. mimi89999

    Gajim has full support. Dino has partial support, that I tried to improve and Siskin also has partial support.

  673. SamWhited

    That's still not "most", though thanks for trying to improve registration support :)

  674. mimi89999

    https://github.com/dino/dino/issues/988

  675. SamWhited

    Point is that it's hard to do, so a lot of clients don't, which makes a company wanting to implement things on XMPP less likely to allow third party clients (I suspect)

  676. mimi89999

    Why would a company do IBR?

  677. SamWhited

    Because they want you to be able to download their app and sign up for an account on their server.

  678. SamWhited

    But that's why I'm saying I agree with the person who said "XMPP ecosystem has no way to allow clients to display the TOS" or whatever, like you said, there's technically IBR, but it's not widely supported and has the bugs you mentioned, so it's not really a good way to do it and people won't use it.

  679. mimi89999

    That would be quite easy to do. The form would be known and static. They could also just display the form on their website with webview.

  680. SamWhited

    Sure, that's what they'd do instead, but that's not part of the XMPP ecosystem and won't work on third party clients

  681. SamWhited

    That's why I'm suggesting your original quote was right: there's no good way to do it in the XMPP ecosystem, so companies will put their website in webview instead and won't allow third party clients.

  682. mimi89999

    The forms allow for too much customization, that's why they are hard to implement

  683. SamWhited

    I agree.

  684. Zash

    It is a blessing and a curse.

  685. mimi89999

    what's the status of the tos xep?

  686. SamWhited

    I spent ages trying to do a data forms implementation recently (well, trying to fix an existing broken one, this is like the third or fourth time I've tried to implement it) and even after figuring out an okay way to do it in the end I still ended up not being able to support the multi-item form stuff. No idea how I'm going to make that work.

  687. SamWhited

    tos xep?

  688. mimi89999

    https://github.com/maranda/metronome/commit/89f49ee2f4cb6825c19f9d60b6aae00435d5614f

  689. Zash

    The one in inbox? Wasn't accepted.

  690. Zash

    That's .. just a form field

  691. mimi89999

    Metronome just went and implemented ToS with exactly one client I know being able to display it: Gajim.

  692. mimi89999

    > The one in inbox? Wasn't accepted. Why?

  693. SamWhited

    I missed that one somehow and don't see it on standards@ or in my inbox; link?

  694. SamWhited

    Or rough date range if it was a little older?

  695. murabito has left

  696. Zash

    2018-05-something

  697. SamWhited

    ah yes, that is older, thanks

  698. Zash

    https://logs.xmpp.org/council/2018-05-30?p=h#2018-05-30-258449810c08bba6

  699. mimi89999

    Also, ToS isn't the only thing admins want. Some are asking for mail, others use custom catchas...

  700. SamWhited

    oh yah, I remember this now. Yah, it seem(ed|s) like it's just duplicating forms except with fewer options. I would eventually like to have something like this as part of whatever eIBR/SASL2 combination we eventually come up with.

  701. SamWhited

    Also pre-auth IQs. Maybe it's time to revive this one and fix some of the issues.

  702. Zash

    forms in IBR isn't all that widely supported, which I suppose is what mimi89999 is talking about

  703. mimi89999

    Yes

  704. Zash

    Anything other than username and password usually limits you to certain advanced clients.

  705. SamWhited

    Yah, probably good to have a simplified version. Just not one that also mixes in form elemetns and has most of the same extra stuff as forms.

  706. mimi89999

    Even Conv doesn't do it.

  707. Zash

    XEP-0077 has existed for ~18 years. We can't force clients developers to implement things.