XSF Discussion - 2021-02-19

arc: thanks!

Hiya.

0. Welcome + Agenda

Hi! Who do we have today?

Agenda items: GSoC, Outreachy.

arc, MattJ?

OK, can I add "This timeslot doesn't appear to work for most of us most of the time" to the agenda?

I'm finding it massively difficult, and it seems to be tough for others too.

Yes

Also, Seve's resignation.

:crickets:

how do i make myself look eligible for outreachy?

I think the whole point of outreachy is that looks are irrelevant

yes, but at the second look you have to look like some kind of minority to pass, and everyone is a minority in some sense

Yea I got the impression you had to have a specific "look" to be eligible

I think that’s somewhat the point, isn’t it?

Sorry here

I think arc described it well here: https://logs.xmpp.org/xsf/2021-02-18#2021-02-18-437efe9a57311f35

Hi arc

We have quorum

yay

1. Minute taker

I think dwd is up, correct me if I'm wrong

OK

2. Seve's resignation

I'd not heard about this. Did he resign via email?

Seve's sent an e-mail to Board that live's interfering with his Directorship and that he feels that doing it half-half isn't ideal. So he wishes to resign.

life

OK, I'm not on the Board mailing list, then.

I would like to extend great thanks to Seve for all his work on Board for the past few years!

dwd: that's bad

I’ll second that from the peanut gallery ;)

dwd: if MattJ was here, I'd ask him to add you (again)

Or Kev can?

dwd: I think that’s MattJ’s remit usually, but I can also do the magic, I believe. Would you like me to?

Yes please

dwd: Which addy?

Either am I apparently

arc: Which addy?

Wow

Kev, dave@cridland.net

I'll send you the messages from the start of the term

arcriley@gmail.com

(since we don't keep an archive, I think)

Pep and Seve to be removed, Dave and Arc to be added?

What about Guus? Jonas stays as Council chair, I think.

Guus to be removed, too, and Jonas to stay

With the administrativa out of the way, I'll repeat my thanks from above.

I just received the welcome email

Oddly, it appears that we can appoint a new Director to fill the vacancy.

(Bylaws, 4.7)

Does anyone have any nominations?

Are able to, but not obliged, I believe. So no hurry. If I read this right.

Yes "may be filled"

Yeah, I'd rather think about this one.

Ok, let's take that to next week to ponder on

3. GSoC

I was going to fill out the application yesterday and decided best to wait for the board meeting

The date of application is today, right?

Yes

It appears there's appetite for it, so I move we apply.

I'll second that

Yes, I'm happy to if we can - do we have the infra/support?

We risk little and there's still a lot to gain

I'm happy to admin. I've not been asked by any other organization

Thanks arc

I’m happy to be named as the second admin, assuming that’s needed, but can’t practically promise large amounts of time for it.

Kev: thanks!

(Or anyone else can be, I’m not precious ;))

(Im happy to announce things in Newsletter and where else I can if necessary)

Motion carries. Arc, please complete the application.

Gladly

4. Outreachy

I think it's important to also start running outreachy, even if we only start with one student.

Yes, that sounds like a positive thing to do.

I agree. I suppose we can evaluate the number of candidates to take on against a budget?

I suggest, although I know I’m in a minority, that it’s cleanest to ask for sponsorship for the XSF’s participation in Outreachy explicitly. I won’t argue it further (this year) if people disagree. I think it’s (Outreachy) a positive thing to do. ✏

Kev: I'm not sure why you are in a minority, I think it is a great idea.

Yeah we can. And I agree with Kev, plus it's good to keep looking for new sponsorships.

I already started making the connections to get XSF involved

Taking arc's earlier thinking as a motion to which we agreed, let's also participate in Outreachy.

Seconded

+1, also to GSoc, for the record

Same

5. Date of Next

It appears that this slot doesn't work well.

Now everybody is on the list, can you please suggest times (in UTC) that would work for you, so we can pick a common one?

A different day or would you rather meet in the morning europe time?

Either, really.

Well, this is Friday 18:00 for me, so meh. Any other time is likely better.

Last thing on Friday is either panic at work or I've managed to knock off early and now have to come back.

^^^

How about Thursday same time?

That works better for me.

I have a recurring meeting at that time

Wednesday same time?

+1

right after council meeting?

dwd?

That's a bonus to me

That would be perfect.

Cool

6. AOB

When is council meeting? Will that cause trouble with daylight savings

an hour before

I've moved the calendar item, and we'll see about DST when/before we get there

arc, Council is pinned to European time for daylight savings changes.

If there's isn't any other business? (TTL: 30 s)

None from me.

That sounds like it will cause a problem or four

But fine for now. We just need to keep those dates in mind

K

7. Close

Thanks all!

Fries!

Thanks Kev, I have your test.

Same

I sent the previous messages again

dwd/arc: Fab.

Hi all, sorry I wasn't around for the time slot this week, but I've been trying to get the idea of the XSF acting as a fiscal sponsor for projects (ie. taking tax-free donations on behalf of them) on the agenda for a few weeks. Is there a better way that I should be doing that?

SamWhited: I suppose the way is to poke someone who can add it to the agenda trello

Zash: I *think* that's what I've been doing for the last few weeks (assuming board members have trello access). Is there someone specific who manages that? ralphm?

I would have thought yelling loudly enoug here would do the trick

To be fair, one week the board meeting didn't happen. The week before I might have been too late, so maybe this is the first week it could have happened. Either way, it would be good to get it on the agenda.

Kev what years did we participate in gsoc?

It looks like 2012 2014 2015 2016 2017...

arc, https://wiki.xmpp.org/web/GSoC

How many students do we get last year?

The above URL just says n/a but I need to answer how many students we got and how many were successful

Kev, ?

Flow, ?

Did everyone just fall asleep?

food coma?

I don't see anything on the mailing list for last year.

Check https://logs.xmpp.org/xsf/?p=h#2020 around relevant gsoc dates?

Flow, you were also going to be back up admin right?

ping larma

Last year we had two students?

Or 3?

We had Aditya and Wolfie afair

1 or 2 slots were requested according to https://logs.xmpp.org/xsf/2020-04-16?p=h#2020-04-16-742c6584719ec1f4

Yeah, we had two

Just checked the newsletter post announcing the results: https://xmpp.org/2020/08/newsletter-06-august/

arc: I can also co-admin if necessary

vanitasvitae: 😍 Yes, in the newsletter!1!!

Larma I'm not familiar by this name, how long have you been part of the XSF?

I literally have six minutes to get a second admin signed up

arc, dino dev, long time

Ok email address?

Sorry arc, was eating curry.

Kev, you need to respond to the invite very very soon

5 minutes to sign up

Everything else has been completed

DAWN OF THE FINal wait it's evening here.

Apparently you want me to be an admin for Arc Riley. I was expecting for the XSF :D

It doesn't matter what the email says you need to respond and finish the application

(I’m doing it, BTW)

Urgh. I don’t know how many times I’ve been a mentor. Blah.

Dice roll it

2 minutes

Say five

four

Arc: Have I done enough?

Yup

Thanks

That was a little Last Minute :)

I went with 8, FWIW, although I think the number is higher.

That's why I was going to do the application yesterday, but then decided to wait

Honestly I don't think they're even going to look at that

It is kind of ridiculous to ask for the slot allocation and success of students for every previous year

A lot of times I just put in dummy numbers

But yeah the application is 100% complete

I have always answered as completely and accurately as I could. And usually regretted the amount of effort finding out :)

And thank you for the heads up, in my rush I just put my own name instead of the org name. Fixed now.

Thanks for getting this done.

Okay we can continue to collect ideas on the wiki, we will find out if we are accepted on March 9th

Honestly I stopped mentoring for gsoc a few years ago, I think it was the year that I was doing student selections during my dad's funeral. But I was a student last year for python so..

Something for which the Google staff were like "Ummm..." 😂

Heh. It’s been the XSF’s policy in the past to not give places to existing devs (with the one exception, I think, of a young Kevin Smith back in 2006) :)

I was not mentor for python for many years. Though I did select the current org admin and had barbecue at her house the week before I applied

But my project was specific to improving python's org admin web interface so it fit

Actually, I think we accepted someone who was an existing dev another year, more recently, but we selected them as our bottom option, on the advice of Google. They gave us the slot anyway.

I think that we are far too selective. When you look at the other org, especially the academic ones, their criteria is basically "my favorite student who I already know and see on a daily basis"

And I am very glad that I applied last year, because the income from the program kept me paying rent during covid-19

Sorry for missing the meeting. As Dave noted, it's a difficult time slot (I recognise other time slots are equally difficult for others)

arc: Your programme this year. My rules don’t have to apply ;) I do think that our previous efforts to try to select new people and bring them into the community, rather than people already in were well intended, and the existence of people who abuse the system to pay their favourites doesn’t mean we should. But if you want different selection criterions ( :) ), go for it.

I guess it vastly depends on your goals. Produce mergable code? Bring new people into the community?

(In case that was unclear, I wasn’t implying the PSF was doing that when they picked you!)

Daniel: The stated goal of GSoC was to bring in new developers, so that’s what I (tried to) optimised for.

And I think it's also worthwhile to review how well the past strategies have worked to achieve those goals

From my point of view, Arc knows what he’s doing, and can do more or less what he wants and I’m not going to be particularly vocal in complaining :)

Oh I'm not trying to influence Arcs decision making

I tried to do that too but if a existing developer needs the cash and qualifies by being student, and participating will help them produce more code over the summer, I don't see a problem with it.

arc: I’m not trying to imply you’re wrong. Simply different

…to how I approached it.

Oh no we are in agreement, GSoC works best when we are getting new people involved. But again, I don't think to a exclusion of existing developers who otherwise qualify

Generally speaking, existing developers need little or no mentoring. In most cases they end up mentoring other students without intending to.

It’s also not a thing that’s come up very often.

(For us)

Exactly.

hm is urn:xmpp:features:rosterver only in stream features?

or do server also add this to account and domain disco info?

Prosody just does the stream feature at least.

Not seeing anything but https://xmpp.org/rfcs/rfc6121.html#rfc.section.2.6.1 mentioning that

ok thanks Zash

arc: larma did mentor on GSoC at least twice, too

@board Can we try to make the application process next year not that rushing close to the deadline? Willing to help ✏