XSF Discussion - 2021-02-19


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  149. marc arc: thanks!
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  431. ralphm bangs gavel
  432. dwd Hiya.
  433. ralphm 0. Welcome + Agenda
  434. ralphm Hi! Who do we have today?
  435. dwd waves
  436. ralphm Agenda items: GSoC, Outreachy.
  437. ralphm arc, MattJ?
  438. dwd OK, can I add "This timeslot doesn't appear to work for most of us most of the time" to the agenda?
  439. dwd I'm finding it massively difficult, and it seems to be tough for others too.
  440. ralphm Yes
  441. ralphm Also, Seve's resignation.
  442. ralphm :crickets:
  443. L29Ah how do i make myself look eligible for outreachy?
  444. ralphm I think the whole point of outreachy is that looks are irrelevant
  445. L29Ah yes, but at the second look you have to look like some kind of minority to pass, and everyone is a minority in some sense
  446. moparisthebest Yea I got the impression you had to have a specific "look" to be eligible
  447. Kev I think that’s somewhat the point, isn’t it?
  448. arc Sorry here
  449. ralphm I think arc described it well here: https://logs.xmpp.org/xsf/2021-02-18#2021-02-18-437efe9a57311f35
  450. ralphm Hi arc
  451. ralphm We have quorum
  452. ralphm yay
  453. ralphm 1. Minute taker
  454. ralphm I think dwd is up, correct me if I'm wrong
  455. dwd OK
  456. werdan has joined
  457. ralphm 2. Seve's resignation
  458. dwd I'd not heard about this. Did he resign via email?
  459. ralphm Seve's sent an e-mail to Board that live's interfering with his Directorship and that he feels that doing it half-half isn't ideal. So he wishes to resign.
  460. ralphm life
  461. dwd OK, I'm not on the Board mailing list, then.
  462. ralphm I would like to extend great thanks to Seve for all his work on Board for the past few years!
  463. ralphm dwd: that's bad
  464. Kev I’ll second that from the peanut gallery ;)
  465. ralphm dwd: if MattJ was here, I'd ask him to add you (again)
  466. ralphm Or Kev can?
  467. Kev dwd: I think that’s MattJ’s remit usually, but I can also do the magic, I believe. Would you like me to?
  468. ralphm Yes please
  469. Kev dwd: Which addy?
  470. arc Either am I apparently
  471. Kev arc: Which addy?
  472. ralphm Wow
  473. eevvoor has left
  474. dwd Kev, dave@cridland.net
  475. ralphm I'll send you the messages from the start of the term
  476. arc arcriley@gmail.com
  477. ralphm (since we don't keep an archive, I think)
  478. Kev Pep and Seve to be removed, Dave and Arc to be added?
  479. Kev What about Guus? Jonas stays as Council chair, I think.
  480. ralphm Guus to be removed, too, and Jonas to stay
  481. ralphm With the administrativa out of the way, I'll repeat my thanks from above.
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  483. arc I just received the welcome email
  484. ralphm Oddly, it appears that we can appoint a new Director to fill the vacancy.
  485. ralphm (Bylaws, 4.7)
  486. arc Does anyone have any nominations?
  487. Kev Are able to, but not obliged, I believe. So no hurry. If I read this right.
  488. ralphm Yes "may be filled"
  489. dwd Yeah, I'd rather think about this one.
  490. ralphm Ok, let's take that to next week to ponder on
  491. ralphm 3. GSoC
  492. arc I was going to fill out the application yesterday and decided best to wait for the board meeting
  493. ralphm The date of application is today, right?
  494. arc Yes
  495. ralphm It appears there's appetite for it, so I move we apply.
  496. arc I'll second that
  497. dwd Yes, I'm happy to if we can - do we have the infra/support?
  498. arc We risk little and there's still a lot to gain
  499. arc I'm happy to admin. I've not been asked by any other organization
  500. ralphm Thanks arc
  501. Kev I’m happy to be named as the second admin, assuming that’s needed, but can’t practically promise large amounts of time for it.
  502. ralphm Kev: thanks!
  503. Kev (Or anyone else can be, I’m not precious ;))
  504. emus (Im happy to announce things in Newsletter and where else I can if necessary)
  505. ralphm Motion carries. Arc, please complete the application.
  506. arc Gladly
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  508. ralphm 4. Outreachy
  509. arc I think it's important to also start running outreachy, even if we only start with one student.
  510. dwd Yes, that sounds like a positive thing to do.
  511. ralphm I agree. I suppose we can evaluate the number of candidates to take on against a budget?
  512. Kev I suggest, although I know I’m in a minority, that it’s cleanest to ask for sponsorship for the XSF’s participation in Outreachy explicitly. I won’t argue it further (this year) if people disagree. I think it’s a positive thing to do.
  513. Kev I suggest, although I know I’m in a minority, that it’s cleanest to ask for sponsorship for the XSF’s participation in Outreachy explicitly. I won’t argue it further (this year) if people disagree. I think it’s (Outreachy) a positive thing to do.
  514. ralphm Kev: I'm not sure why you are in a minority, I think it is a great idea.
  515. arc Yeah we can. And I agree with Kev, plus it's good to keep looking for new sponsorships.
  516. arc I already started making the connections to get XSF involved
  517. ralphm Taking arc's earlier thinking as a motion to which we agreed, let's also participate in Outreachy.
  518. arc Seconded
  519. ralphm +1, also to GSoc, for the record
  520. arc Same
  521. ralphm 5. Date of Next
  522. ralphm It appears that this slot doesn't work well.
  523. ralphm Now everybody is on the list, can you please suggest times (in UTC) that would work for you, so we can pick a common one?
  524. arc A different day or would you rather meet in the morning europe time?
  525. dwd Either, really.
  526. ralphm Well, this is Friday 18:00 for me, so meh. Any other time is likely better.
  527. dwd Last thing on Friday is either panic at work or I've managed to knock off early and now have to come back.
  528. ralphm ^^^
  529. arc How about Thursday same time?
  530. dwd That works better for me.
  531. ralphm I have a recurring meeting at that time
  532. arc Wednesday same time?
  533. ralphm +1
  534. Zash right after council meeting?
  535. ralphm dwd?
  536. ralphm That's a bonus to me
  537. dwd That would be perfect.
  538. ralphm Cool
  539. ralphm 6. AOB
  540. arc When is council meeting? Will that cause trouble with daylight savings
  541. ralphm an hour before
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  544. ralphm I've moved the calendar item, and we'll see about DST when/before we get there
  545. dwd arc, Council is pinned to European time for daylight savings changes.
  546. ralphm If there's isn't any other business? (TTL: 30 s)
  547. dwd None from me.
  548. arc That sounds like it will cause a problem or four
  549. arc But fine for now. We just need to keep those dates in mind
  550. ralphm K
  551. ralphm 7. Close
  552. ralphm Thanks all!
  553. ralphm bangs gavel
  554. ralphm Fries!
  555. dwd Thanks Kev, I have your test.
  556. arc Same
  557. ralphm I sent the previous messages again
  558. Kev dwd/arc: Fab.
  559. alameyo has joined
  560. SamWhited Hi all, sorry I wasn't around for the time slot this week, but I've been trying to get the idea of the XSF acting as a fiscal sponsor for projects (ie. taking tax-free donations on behalf of them) on the agenda for a few weeks. Is there a better way that I should be doing that?
  561. Zash SamWhited: I suppose the way is to poke someone who can add it to the agenda trello
  562. SamWhited Zash: I *think* that's what I've been doing for the last few weeks (assuming board members have trello access). Is there someone specific who manages that? ralphm?
  563. Zash I would have thought yelling loudly enoug here would do the trick
  564. SamWhited To be fair, one week the board meeting didn't happen. The week before I might have been too late, so maybe this is the first week it could have happened. Either way, it would be good to get it on the agenda.
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  568. arc Kev what years did we participate in gsoc?
  569. pasdesushi has left
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  573. arc It looks like 2012 2014 2015 2016 2017...
  574. flow arc, https://wiki.xmpp.org/web/GSoC
  575. arc How many students do we get last year?
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  583. arc The above URL just says n/a but I need to answer how many students we got and how many were successful
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  590. arc Kev, ?
  591. arc Flow, ?
  592. arc Did everyone just fall asleep?
  593. Zash food coma?
  594. arc I don't see anything on the mailing list for last year.
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  599. Zash Check https://logs.xmpp.org/xsf/?p=h#2020 around relevant gsoc dates?
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  602. arc Flow, you were also going to be back up admin right?
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  606. Zash ping larma
  607. vanitasvitae Last year we had two students?
  608. vanitasvitae Or 3?
  609. vanitasvitae We had Aditya and Wolfie afair
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  611. Zash 1 or 2 slots were requested according to https://logs.xmpp.org/xsf/2020-04-16?p=h#2020-04-16-742c6584719ec1f4
  612. vanitasvitae Yeah, we had two
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  614. vanitasvitae Just checked the newsletter post announcing the results: https://xmpp.org/2020/08/newsletter-06-august/
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  622. larma arc: I can also co-admin if necessary
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  630. emus vanitasvitae: 😍 Yes, in the newsletter!1!!
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  634. arc Larma I'm not familiar by this name, how long have you been part of the XSF?
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  637. arc I literally have six minutes to get a second admin signed up
  638. moparisthebest arc, dino dev, long time
  639. arc Ok email address?
  640. Kev Sorry arc, was eating curry.
  641. Guus has left
  642. arc Kev, you need to respond to the invite very very soon
  643. arc 5 minutes to sign up
  644. arc Everything else has been completed
  645. Zash DAWN OF THE FINal wait it's evening here.
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  647. Kev Apparently you want me to be an admin for Arc Riley. I was expecting for the XSF :D
  648. arc It doesn't matter what the email says you need to respond and finish the application
  649. Kev (I’m doing it, BTW)
  650. Kev Urgh. I don’t know how many times I’ve been a mentor. Blah.
  651. Zash Dice roll it
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  654. arc 2 minutes
  655. arc Say five
  656. Zash four
  657. Kev Arc: Have I done enough?
  658. arc Yup
  659. arc Thanks
  660. Kev That was a little Last Minute :)
  661. Kev I went with 8, FWIW, although I think the number is higher.
  662. arc That's why I was going to do the application yesterday, but then decided to wait
  663. arc Honestly I don't think they're even going to look at that
  664. arc It is kind of ridiculous to ask for the slot allocation and success of students for every previous year
  665. arc A lot of times I just put in dummy numbers
  666. arc But yeah the application is 100% complete
  667. Kev I have always answered as completely and accurately as I could. And usually regretted the amount of effort finding out :)
  668. arc And thank you for the heads up, in my rush I just put my own name instead of the org name. Fixed now.
  669. Kev Thanks for getting this done.
  670. arc Okay we can continue to collect ideas on the wiki, we will find out if we are accepted on March 9th
  671. arc Honestly I stopped mentoring for gsoc a few years ago, I think it was the year that I was doing student selections during my dad's funeral. But I was a student last year for python so..
  672. arc Something for which the Google staff were like "Ummm..." 😂
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  675. Kev Heh. It’s been the XSF’s policy in the past to not give places to existing devs (with the one exception, I think, of a young Kevin Smith back in 2006) :)
  676. arc I was not mentor for python for many years. Though I did select the current org admin and had barbecue at her house the week before I applied
  677. arc But my project was specific to improving python's org admin web interface so it fit
  678. Kev Actually, I think we accepted someone who was an existing dev another year, more recently, but we selected them as our bottom option, on the advice of Google. They gave us the slot anyway.
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  686. arc I think that we are far too selective. When you look at the other org, especially the academic ones, their criteria is basically "my favorite student who I already know and see on a daily basis"
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  689. arc And I am very glad that I applied last year, because the income from the program kept me paying rent during covid-19
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  692. MattJ Sorry for missing the meeting. As Dave noted, it's a difficult time slot (I recognise other time slots are equally difficult for others)
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  703. Kev arc: Your programme this year. My rules don’t have to apply ;) I do think that our previous efforts to try to select new people and bring them into the community, rather than people already in were well intended, and the existence of people who abuse the system to pay their favourites doesn’t mean we should. But if you want different selection criterions ( :) ), go for it.
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  712. Daniel I guess it vastly depends on your goals. Produce mergable code? Bring new people into the community?
  713. Kev (In case that was unclear, I wasn’t implying the PSF was doing that when they picked you!)
  714. Kev Daniel: The stated goal of GSoC was to bring in new developers, so that’s what I (tried to) optimised for.
  715. Daniel And I think it's also worthwhile to review how well the past strategies have worked to achieve those goals
  716. Kev From my point of view, Arc knows what he’s doing, and can do more or less what he wants and I’m not going to be particularly vocal in complaining :)
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  720. Daniel Oh I'm not trying to influence Arcs decision making
  721. arc I tried to do that too but if a existing developer needs the cash and qualifies by being student, and participating will help them produce more code over the summer, I don't see a problem with it.
  722. Kev arc: I’m not trying to imply you’re wrong. Simply different
  723. Kev …to how I approached it.
  724. arc Oh no we are in agreement, GSoC works best when we are getting new people involved. But again, I don't think to a exclusion of existing developers who otherwise qualify
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  730. arc Generally speaking, existing developers need little or no mentoring. In most cases they end up mentoring other students without intending to.
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  732. Kev It’s also not a thing that’s come up very often.
  733. Kev (For us)
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  738. arc Exactly.
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  811. lovetox hm is urn:xmpp:features:rosterver only in stream features?
  812. lovetox or do server also add this to account and domain disco info?
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  815. Zash Prosody just does the stream feature at least.
  816. Zash Not seeing anything but https://xmpp.org/rfcs/rfc6121.html#rfc.section.2.6.1 mentioning that
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  821. lovetox ok thanks Zash
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  994. emus arc: larma did mentor on GSoC at least twice, too
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  998. emus @board Can we try to make the application process next year not that rushing? Willing to help
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  1001. emus @board Can we try to make the application process next year not that rushing close to the deadline? Willing to help
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