==== Reminder to add your news
π If you have somethibg to say for February Newsletter now is the perfect time!
Newsletter draft on Github:
https://github.com/xsf/xmpp.org/milestone/3
Or drop your news text to our online pad: https://yopad.eu/p/xmpp-newsletter-365days
We are always happy for supporters at the end of the month to finalize the draft! π
============✎
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emus
==== Reminder to add your news
π If you have something to say for February Newsletter now is the perfect time!
Newsletter draft on Github:
https://github.com/xsf/xmpp.org/milestone/3
Or drop your news text to our online pad: https://yopad.eu/p/xmpp-newsletter-365days
We are always happy for supporters at the end of the month to finalize the draft! π
============ ✏
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moparisthebest
this is finally available, update on SRV2 and encrypted client hello (replaces encrypted SNI and ALPN) https://www.ripe.net/participate/ripe/wg/active-wg/dns/remote-sessions/svcb_https_-ripe-2020.pdf
Zash
> The page you requested is undergoing maintenance and is temporarily unavailable.
Zash
Whatβ½
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Zash
Can't serve a PDF without Javascript???
moparisthebest
works for me in firefox and wget
Zash
It worked after enabling JS
moparisthebest
I think firefox's built-in pdf viewer needs JS
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Zash
I doubt that
Zash
I mean, it's written in JS, but I don't think that would have caused RIPE to send me an error page
moparisthebest
yea that doesn't make sense I agree
L29Ah
worksforme
L29Ah
i guess Zash enabling JS in his browser coincided with ripe fixing their crap
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Zash
Still screams "the web stubbornly refused to go with SRV records and now NIHed an overcomplicated hack for it" to me
moparisthebest
SRV records don't support "use key X for host Y but key B for host A"
Zash
But you can publish full keys with DANE
moparisthebest
well it's not *only* keys either
Zash
Hence "overcomplicated"
moparisthebest
it can also say "use http2 with host Y but http1.1 with host X"
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L29Ah
moparisthebest: don't they? _foo.bar.baz and _foo.rab.baz are different contents for different hosts
moparisthebest
which will actually be very helpful for XMPP too
moparisthebest
L29Ah, right, but for 1 domain, not 2
L29Ah
1 domain = 1 host
Zash
As a cynic, I have to say that I doubt it will be of any use for anyhing but https.
Zash
Since HTTPS gets a special record of its own, I'm counting on that being the only thing supported
moparisthebest
L29Ah, no, google.com is not hosted on 1 server/host
SamWhited
I don't think 1 domain = 1 host has been true for any multi-host service that I've ever run or helped work on :)
L29Ah
ahh
L29Ah
and sharing a key is not an option; what about sharing a CA though?
L29Ah
though X.509 stuff is an abomination anyway
moparisthebest
the key used to encrypt the client hello isn't shared across hosts, necessarily anyway
SamWhited
oh hey, one of my coworkers is an author on this; I should ask him to give me the rundown
L29Ahleaves mumbing about roots of trust
SamWhited
*former coworkers
moparisthebest
but roughly, XMPP-wise, we can replace RFC SRV, xep-368 SRV, and xep-0156 TXT, with a much better single-SRV2 lookup
moparisthebest
then get encrypted client hello for free, and future QUIC support is easily implemented the same way
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moparisthebest
the main thing I'm not understanding is everything seems to say SVCB and HTTPS record types are identical, except for the record type code
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Zash
yes
moparisthebest
anyway it might make sense for XMPP to use the HTTPS record specifically for the reasons Zash mentioned above :D
Zash
so shose shitty consumer router vendors will do what, you think?
Zash
you know, those that don't support SRV records. at all.
moparisthebest
right but that'll be fixed quickly when people have a degraded facebook/gmail experience
Zash
tho it would be good to do deeper investigation into those ~10% of users behaving as if no SRV exists
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mathieui
There is nothing preventing available presences to come from bare JIDs, right?
mathieui
(looking at https://dev.gajim.org/gajim/gajim/-/issues/10461)
mathieui
The RFC does not disallow it (and it makes sense for components), but it explicitly allows unavailable presence
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Daniel
i think we've discussed this recently and the vibe in the room was that this is not ok
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Daniel
i have seen gateways do this though and Conversations has support for this
Daniel
but i'm really unsure that this is correct behaviour
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Daniel
unavailable from bare means all resources though
mathieui
Yes
Daniel
so the fact that this is allowed doesnβt mean available should be allowed
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Daniel
on the contrary this might be an argument to not allow it
mathieui
XEP-0100 makes use of this though
mathieui
https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0100.html#usecases-jabber-addcontact-pri at step 4
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lovetox
so gateway users have no resource Oo
mathieui
lovetox, well, lots of networks have no concept of "resource"
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lovetox
yeah and others have
mathieui
in which case the gateways can reflect that
Daniel
well the fact that some gateways might decide to omit the resource doesnβt mean all gateways have to
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Daniel
but of course they could also decide to go for a static resource
mathieui
Of course, if that is relevant to the gateway, I donβt think anything forbids sending gatewayed presence from full-jids
eta
hey, I write a gateway
etachecks what they do here
lovetox
i really dont like that
lovetox
this is again something i need to special case
eta
answer: using no resource
eta
I didn't know that was bad
Daniel
well we donβt know if that's bad :-)
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Daniel
it's certainly unusual
lovetox
i find this is the job of the bridge, like i dont care some other chat network has no concept of resource
eta
I send presence subscription requests from the barejid too fwiw
Daniel
and creates weird corner cases like: can you have a resource from bare and one from a full
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Daniel
aehm presence i mean
etauses bare JIDs as much as possible
mathieui
eta, that does not matter as much, afaik
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eta
although I think messages do come from a resource
mathieui
because subscription requests are expected to be resource-less
mathieui
but available presences are used to display things in UI, generally
Daniel
foo@bar.tld type=available, foo@bar.tld/something type=available foo@bar.tld type=unavailable
is foo@bar.tld online or offline now?
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mathieui
Daniel, offline, per 6121 :p
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mathieui
though an entity sending both resourced and bare presences would have a weird thing going on