XSF Discussion - 2021-02-23


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  231. emus ==== Reminder to add your news πŸ“ If you have somethibg to say for February Newsletter now is the perfect time! Newsletter draft on Github: https://github.com/xsf/xmpp.org/milestone/3 Or drop your news text to our online pad: https://yopad.eu/p/xmpp-newsletter-365days We are always happy for supporters at the end of the month to finalize the draft! πŸŽ› ============
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  233. emus ==== Reminder to add your news πŸ“ If you have something to say for February Newsletter now is the perfect time! Newsletter draft on Github: https://github.com/xsf/xmpp.org/milestone/3 Or drop your news text to our online pad: https://yopad.eu/p/xmpp-newsletter-365days We are always happy for supporters at the end of the month to finalize the draft! πŸŽ› ============
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  343. moparisthebest this is finally available, update on SRV2 and encrypted client hello (replaces encrypted SNI and ALPN) https://www.ripe.net/participate/ripe/wg/active-wg/dns/remote-sessions/svcb_https_-ripe-2020.pdf
  344. Zash > The page you requested is undergoing maintenance and is temporarily unavailable.
  345. Zash Whatβ€½
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  348. Zash Can't serve a PDF without Javascript???
  349. moparisthebest works for me in firefox and wget
  350. Zash It worked after enabling JS
  351. moparisthebest I think firefox's built-in pdf viewer needs JS
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  354. Zash I doubt that
  355. Zash I mean, it's written in JS, but I don't think that would have caused RIPE to send me an error page
  356. moparisthebest yea that doesn't make sense I agree
  357. L29Ah worksforme
  358. L29Ah i guess Zash enabling JS in his browser coincided with ripe fixing their crap
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  361. Zash Still screams "the web stubbornly refused to go with SRV records and now NIHed an overcomplicated hack for it" to me
  362. moparisthebest SRV records don't support "use key X for host Y but key B for host A"
  363. Zash But you can publish full keys with DANE
  364. moparisthebest well it's not *only* keys either
  365. Zash Hence "overcomplicated"
  366. moparisthebest it can also say "use http2 with host Y but http1.1 with host X"
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  368. L29Ah moparisthebest: don't they? _foo.bar.baz and _foo.rab.baz are different contents for different hosts
  369. moparisthebest which will actually be very helpful for XMPP too
  370. moparisthebest L29Ah, right, but for 1 domain, not 2
  371. L29Ah 1 domain = 1 host
  372. Zash As a cynic, I have to say that I doubt it will be of any use for anyhing but https.
  373. Zash Since HTTPS gets a special record of its own, I'm counting on that being the only thing supported
  374. moparisthebest L29Ah, no, google.com is not hosted on 1 server/host
  375. SamWhited I don't think 1 domain = 1 host has been true for any multi-host service that I've ever run or helped work on :)
  376. L29Ah ahh
  377. L29Ah and sharing a key is not an option; what about sharing a CA though?
  378. L29Ah though X.509 stuff is an abomination anyway
  379. moparisthebest the key used to encrypt the client hello isn't shared across hosts, necessarily anyway
  380. SamWhited oh hey, one of my coworkers is an author on this; I should ask him to give me the rundown
  381. L29Ah leaves mumbing about roots of trust
  382. SamWhited *former coworkers
  383. moparisthebest but roughly, XMPP-wise, we can replace RFC SRV, xep-368 SRV, and xep-0156 TXT, with a much better single-SRV2 lookup
  384. moparisthebest then get encrypted client hello for free, and future QUIC support is easily implemented the same way
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  394. moparisthebest the main thing I'm not understanding is everything seems to say SVCB and HTTPS record types are identical, except for the record type code
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  396. Zash yes
  397. moparisthebest anyway it might make sense for XMPP to use the HTTPS record specifically for the reasons Zash mentioned above :D
  398. Zash so shose shitty consumer router vendors will do what, you think?
  399. Zash you know, those that don't support SRV records. at all.
  400. moparisthebest right but that'll be fixed quickly when people have a degraded facebook/gmail experience
  401. Zash tho it would be good to do deeper investigation into those ~10% of users behaving as if no SRV exists
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  634. mathieui There is nothing preventing available presences to come from bare JIDs, right?
  635. mathieui (looking at https://dev.gajim.org/gajim/gajim/-/issues/10461)
  636. mathieui The RFC does not disallow it (and it makes sense for components), but it explicitly allows unavailable presence
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  645. Daniel i think we've discussed this recently and the vibe in the room was that this is not ok
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  648. Daniel i have seen gateways do this though and Conversations has support for this
  649. Daniel but i'm really unsure that this is correct behaviour
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  652. Daniel unavailable from bare means all resources though
  653. mathieui Yes
  654. Daniel so the fact that this is allowed doesn’t mean available should be allowed
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  656. Daniel on the contrary this might be an argument to not allow it
  657. mathieui XEP-0100 makes use of this though
  658. mathieui https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0100.html#usecases-jabber-addcontact-pri at step 4
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  662. lovetox so gateway users have no resource Oo
  663. mathieui lovetox, well, lots of networks have no concept of "resource"
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  665. lovetox yeah and others have
  666. mathieui in which case the gateways can reflect that
  667. Daniel well the fact that some gateways might decide to omit the resource doesn’t mean all gateways have to
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  669. Daniel but of course they could also decide to go for a static resource
  670. mathieui Of course, if that is relevant to the gateway, I don’t think anything forbids sending gatewayed presence from full-jids
  671. eta hey, I write a gateway
  672. eta checks what they do here
  673. lovetox i really dont like that
  674. lovetox this is again something i need to special case
  675. eta answer: using no resource
  676. eta I didn't know that was bad
  677. Daniel well we don’t know if that's bad :-)
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  680. Daniel it's certainly unusual
  681. lovetox i find this is the job of the bridge, like i dont care some other chat network has no concept of resource
  682. eta I send presence subscription requests from the barejid too fwiw
  683. Daniel and creates weird corner cases like: can you have a resource from bare and one from a full
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  686. Daniel aehm presence i mean
  687. eta uses bare JIDs as much as possible
  688. mathieui eta, that does not matter as much, afaik
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  690. eta although I think messages do come from a resource
  691. mathieui because subscription requests are expected to be resource-less
  692. mathieui but available presences are used to display things in UI, generally
  693. Daniel foo@bar.tld type=available, foo@bar.tld/something type=available foo@bar.tld type=unavailable is foo@bar.tld online or offline now?
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  698. mathieui Daniel, offline, per 6121 :p
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  701. mathieui though an entity sending both resourced and bare presences would have a weird thing going on
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