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ralphm
Zash: which one, avatar presence from the room, or the room sending unavailable when you leave?
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Ge0rG
If you have room presence, can you switch the room to DnD then?
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ralphm
Sure, but maybe a bit silly.
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ralphm
The thing is, if anything sent you (available) presence for whatever reason, it makes sense to send unavailable once you are no longer 'subscribed'.
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Ge0rG
ralphm: that's a good point. From a protocol point of view, it probably makes sense to have it behave symmetrically. However, given that you receive presence-unavailable from your occupant JID, another presence-unavailable from the bare JID might be superfluous
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ralphm
Not really. Strictly speaking there are two different entities represented by the bare JID (room) and the full JID (your presence in said room). Of course the model is odd and we'd be much better off having this properly specified from scratch (hello MIX).
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ralphm
(I understand that if you take my point to the extreme, a room would have to send unavailable for all occupants and one might say that the bare JID should be assumed to also be unavailable, but sending the unavailable from the room is just a bit more explicit)
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Kev
This is somewhat complicated by bare JID unavailable having a special meaning.
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Kev
(Which is that all resources are also unavailable)
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Kev
So, basically, overloading a room’s bare JID presence is icky and bad and wrong.
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jonas’
to be fair, all resource overloading in MUC is icky and bad and wrong if you look at it too closely
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Kev
Where ‘too closely’ is anything in the same solar system. And possibly beyond.
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Kev
But using bare JID is especially bad, even by normal MUC standards.
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jonas’
Kev, good thing that this use of the bare JID is not standardised then ;)
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ralphm
Kev: while I mostly agree, what is the bad effect of having a bare JID unavailable being sent after you left the room?
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ralphm
Also, is the special meaning you mention actually in a spec?
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ralphm
The only thing I could find was https://xmpp.org/rfcs/rfc6121.html#presence-unavailable-client, but that specifically is about contacts.
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Ge0rG
Kev: well, sending presence-unavailable from the room JID to a leaving client will ensure resource cleanup even on servers that don't track their users' MUC presence, right?
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Kev
Ralph: Yes, but at the same time, it doesn’t say the sender has to be a contact of the receiver, merely that the receiver must treat bare JID unavailable as applying to all resources. Just that the receiver be a contact of the sender.
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Kev
Ge0rG: Servers must track their users’ MUC presence, no?
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Ge0rG
Kev: yes and no. They must track outgoing presence, but that doesn't mean they need to follow nickname changes, whether originated from the client or from the MUC
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Ge0rG
And they don't have to follow "MUC occupancy" but rather "outgoing directed presence", so it's not quite the same thing
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Kev
Oh, yes, nickname changes are completely broken.
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Ge0rG
I wouldn't go that far.
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dream chaser
Hello, please i was looking for a particular seller group, i dont know how to navigate my way, please can someone help me
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mathieui
what is a seller group?
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dream chaser
wellsfargo@exploit.im
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dream chaser
wells.support@zloy.im
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dream chaser
Any of them
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mathieui
I still don’t know what is a seller group
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purplebeetroot
Exploits
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Ge0rG
that looks very much like people facilitating identity theft, something illegal in most countries.
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purplebeetroot
just ban and report to admin.
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dream chaser
the group is banned?
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mdosch
MattJ, Kev, ralphm ^
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mdosch
Time for the Bannhammaren.
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ralphm
dream chaser: The primary topic of this room is discussion on XMPP protocols and/or XMPP Standards Foundation matters. The addresses you listed appear to be malicious actors and we're not associated with anything you mentioned.