XSF Discussion - 2021-03-01


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  360. ralphm Zash: which one, avatar presence from the room, or the room sending unavailable when you leave?
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  373. Ge0rG If you have room presence, can you switch the room to DnD then?
  374. ralphm Sure, but maybe a bit silly.
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  377. ralphm The thing is, if anything sent you (available) presence for whatever reason, it makes sense to send unavailable once you are no longer 'subscribed'.
  378. Ge0rG ralphm: that's a good point. From a protocol point of view, it probably makes sense to have it behave symmetrically. However, given that you receive presence-unavailable from your occupant JID, another presence-unavailable from the bare JID might be superfluous
  379. ralphm Not really. Strictly speaking there are two different entities represented by the bare JID (room) and the full JID (your presence in said room). Of course the model is odd and we'd be much better off having this properly specified from scratch (hello MIX).
  380. ralphm (I understand that if you take my point to the extreme, a room would have to send unavailable for all occupants and one might say that the bare JID should be assumed to also be unavailable, but sending the unavailable from the room is just a bit more explicit)
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  383. Kev This is somewhat complicated by bare JID unavailable having a special meaning.
  384. Kev (Which is that all resources are also unavailable)
  385. Kev So, basically, overloading a room’s bare JID presence is icky and bad and wrong.
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  390. jonas’ to be fair, all resource overloading in MUC is icky and bad and wrong if you look at it too closely
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  393. Kev Where β€˜too closely’ is anything in the same solar system. And possibly beyond.
  394. Kev But using bare JID is especially bad, even by normal MUC standards.
  395. jonas’ Kev, good thing that this use of the bare JID is not standardised then ;)
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  402. ralphm Kev: while I mostly agree, what is the bad effect of having a bare JID unavailable being sent after you left the room?
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  407. ralphm Also, is the special meaning you mention actually in a spec?
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  410. ralphm The only thing I could find was https://xmpp.org/rfcs/rfc6121.html#presence-unavailable-client, but that specifically is about contacts.
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  412. Ge0rG Kev: well, sending presence-unavailable from the room JID to a leaving client will ensure resource cleanup even on servers that don't track their users' MUC presence, right?
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  414. Kev Ralph: Yes, but at the same time, it doesn’t say the sender has to be a contact of the receiver, merely that the receiver must treat bare JID unavailable as applying to all resources. Just that the receiver be a contact of the sender.
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  423. Kev Ge0rG: Servers must track their users’ MUC presence, no?
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  426. Ge0rG Kev: yes and no. They must track outgoing presence, but that doesn't mean they need to follow nickname changes, whether originated from the client or from the MUC
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  430. Ge0rG And they don't have to follow "MUC occupancy" but rather "outgoing directed presence", so it's not quite the same thing
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  432. Kev Oh, yes, nickname changes are completely broken.
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  434. Ge0rG I wouldn't go that far.
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  490. dream chaser Hello, please i was looking for a particular seller group, i dont know how to navigate my way, please can someone help me
  491. mathieui what is a seller group?
  492. dream chaser wellsfargo@exploit.im
  493. dream chaser wells.support@zloy.im
  494. dream chaser Any of them
  495. mathieui I still don’t know what is a seller group
  496. purplebeetroot Exploits
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  499. Ge0rG that looks very much like people facilitating identity theft, something illegal in most countries.
  500. purplebeetroot just ban and report to admin.
  501. dream chaser the group is banned?
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  503. mdosch MattJ, Kev, ralphm ^
  504. mdosch Time for the Bannhammaren.
  505. ralphm dream chaser: The primary topic of this room is discussion on XMPP protocols and/or XMPP Standards Foundation matters. The addresses you listed appear to be malicious actors and we're not associated with anything you mentioned.
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