XSF Discussion - 2021-03-26

  1. Daniel

    Sam, emus: do we want to tweet something for the office hours later

  2. Daniel

    (now that I'm writing that I realize that I don't really understand that term. Lol)

  3. Daniel

    I'm interpreting the term as opening hours or business hours. I don't understand the relationship to what we are doing.

  4. Kev

    Office hours are a time when someone (manager, lecturer etc.) is available in their office for people who need to go in and chat.

  5. Kev

    (As opposed to the rest of the time, when theyโ€™re busy)

  6. emus

    Daniel: let me formulate something for fosstodon, then you can copy paste if you want for twitter?

  7. emus

    but yes would be good

  8. Sam

    Daniel: That would be great! Thanks! I forgot to ask this week

  9. Sam

    I'm open to new naming suggestions too

  10. Zash

    The XMPP Standards Foundation Bike Shed Color Selection Committee Discussion Panel

  11. sebastian


  12. sebastian

    what is the talk about today?

  13. sebastian

    not that i'd be able to join, but i'm curious to know what i'll miss ;D

  14. Sam

    If it's not a term that translates it's probably worth thinking about and changing :)

  15. Sam

    Todays is "Designing Message Styling" by me

  16. sebastian

    thx. will you record the session?

  17. Sam

    Next week the time is different, then we'll have a new regular time the week after so keep an eye om the schedule :)

  18. Sam

    I'll try

  19. sebastian

    yeah... it's rarely that i make it to such public online talks. Usually i just hope they are recorded and i can watch them when i have time

  20. sebastian

    as for a name suggestion... "XMPP townhall"?

  21. sebastian

    (not particularly innovative, but i think it somehow implies a public gathering to discuss and present stuff... not sure if i even understood correctly what you are trying to achieve with your friday meetings :))

  22. dwd

    I'd go for somehing with "open" in the name, so we can riff on open standards, open ?talks?, or something.

  23. Zash

    Open Instant (audio) Messaging Party

  24. Sam

    I like 'townhall' a lot. I was thinking it needs to explain what it is, an dif office hours doesn't translate townhall might.

  25. vanitasvitae

    Reminder for the OpenPGP meeting today. We are starting in 1h from now ๐Ÿ™‚

  26. Sam

    I've asked a couple of times and never gotten a response, but who actually has access to Twitter?

  27. Daniel

    I have indirect access via tweetdeck

  28. Kev

    And me.

  29. emus

    Working on the tweet

  30. emus

    sorry jsut forgot

  31. Sam

    Cool, good to know, I'll start pestering you two when we need something tweeted then :)

  32. emus


  33. Kev

    I donโ€™t use it other than granting people tweetdeck access when asked though.

  34. Daniel

    I think I made the vast majority of the last couple of tweets

  35. emus

    Thanks for that

  36. Daniel

    Not writing the text but copying what we have on mastodon

  37. emus

    give me 5 mins

  38. emus

    any additonal hashtag suggestions apart from: #federated #decentralization #standards #jabber

  39. emus


  40. emus


  41. emus


  42. Sam

    Since you asked that already seems like way too many that aren't actually used and don't help IMO, but we don't have to write the tweet by committee :)

  43. goffi

    vanitasvitae: where will be the OX meeting? I can't find it on wiki. I'll try to join and follow, but with on ear only, I'm busy with other things.

  44. Sam

    Whatever you think is best I'm sure will be fine :)

  45. emus

    Kev, would you mind the pin the recent xsf blog article I wrote? I think I already wrote an email. Daniel said it need admin permission

  46. emus

    Sam ok

  47. emus

    But why to much? I prefer to go a bit over the horizon?

  48. Sam

    I dunno, more than 2 or 3 just makes me assume a tweet is spam. I don't know why though.

  49. goffi

    vanitasvitae: nevermind, found it: https://meet.jit.si/AdventurousOxenTrotStandardized

  50. Daniel

    Fwiw I'm also not the biggest fan of hashtags. Feels either unnatural as written by a social media team in the 2010s or like someone using them ironically on Instagram

  51. Daniel

    But I don't have any hard feelings on that and will just tweet whatever

  52. vanitasvitae

    goffi, Good idea to create a wiki page

  53. vanitasvitae

    I will do that

  54. goffi

    vanitasvitae: well it's my first guess to find a meeting, checking standard@ mail thread is not super handy

  55. emus

    I just put them in the end, like "real tags". I don't think one will accuse us of trying to send negative submessages with that

  56. vanitasvitae

    I agree

  57. emus

    Daniel. https://fosstodon.org/web/statuses/105956292858759243

  58. goffi

    vanitasvitae: and it could be nice when you do a reminder in a MUC room like here, to paste the link directly

  59. emus

    Daniel: https://fosstodon.org/web/statuses/105956292858759243

  60. vanitasvitae


  61. emus

    vanitasvitae, goffi, you also need a toot?

  62. vanitasvitae

    A toot would be nice indeed

  63. vanitasvitae


  64. emus

    Sam, as ususally, I cannot join Fridays as I have a fixed private appointment, so it's not that I dont have interest!

  65. Sam

    Not to worry. Next week is at a different time for the presenters schedule, after that I'll change the default and desperately hope we get more signups :)

  66. emus


  67. Daniel

    couldnโ€™t fit all of them into 280 chars anyway

  68. emus

    ah damn it

  69. vanitasvitae


  70. deuill

    Not sure if this is possible/available already, but is there an iCal link or something we can use to keep track of XSF events?

  71. emus

    maybe remote the last part with the link to the wiki

  72. vanitasvitae

    Here is a quick wiki page with links and date

  73. Sam

    deuill: there is, it's on the main page of the wiki somewhere IIRC

  74. emus

    starts in about 30 mins, right?

  75. vanitasvitae

    emus, yep

  76. Sam

    deuill: look under "Upcoming Events" on the wiki home page

  77. emus


  78. vanitasvitae


  79. vanitasvitae

    thanks ๐Ÿ™‚

  80. goffi

    I've an experimental events over Pubsub feature by the way, and implementing a compatiblity with ActivityPub mobilizon is part of the grant I'll do. It would be nice to use if for XMPP events (maybe in a while when it will be more stable and I'll find time to propose protoXEPs).

  81. emus

    by the way we reached more than 1100 followers on Fosstodon

  82. deuill

    Oh nice, thanks for the pointer Sam!

  83. Kev

    emus: Iโ€™ve no idea how to do that, but I shall take a look.

  84. emus

    vanitasvitae - I guess there is potential for your next blog post if it not already exists :)

  85. emus

    Hey Kev, thanks! I just checked for a step-by-step explanation https://www.wikihow.com/Pin-a-Tweet-to-Your-Twitter-Home-Page (but I guess you would have figured out yourself)

  86. vanitasvitae

    emus, sorry, about what exactly?

  87. emus

    why pgpg

  88. emus

    why pgp

  89. vanitasvitae

    ๐Ÿ˜€ I see

  90. Kev

    emus: Was that what you wanted?

  91. Kev

    Oh, I didnโ€™t see you paste that howto, thanks. But I think Iโ€™ve done it already.

  92. emus

    Kev, thank almost, I just meant this post: https://nitter.nixnet.services/xmpp/status/1352946729713340416#m

  93. emus


  94. emus

    acutally meant*

  95. Kev

    That one was pinned already, I had to unpin that to pin the one I thought you meant :)

  96. Kev

    Changed it back.

  97. emus

    Are you sure? I just saw the one from 2015 - then sorry for that

  98. Kev

    Maybe Iโ€™m wrong, not the first time.

  99. Kev

    Anyway, is the right one pinned now?

  100. emus

    but thanks a lot!

  101. emus

    Yes - aweome โค๏ธ

  102. emus

    Yes - awesome โค๏ธ

  103. Kev


  104. emus

    I wish everyone great meetings, I'm on the run now. Its also end of month, so may also consider any news for the Newsletter ๐Ÿ˜‰ https://yopad.eu/p/xmpp-newsletter-365days

  105. Sam

    XMPP Office Hours are starting in 10 minutes! https://socialcoop.meet.coop/sam-pku-dud-niv

  106. L29Ah

    It looks like you're using an older version of a supported browser. Please upgrade your browser for full support.

  107. Sam

    :( This is the only thing I can find about browser support https://docs.bigbluebutton.org/support/faq.html#what-are-the-minimum-requirements-for-the-bigbluebutton-client

  108. moparisthebest

    working in firefox for me, 86 looks like

  109. Sam

    I did try to record it for whomever asked (can't figure out which room that was in, so just leaving it here assuming whomever it was is here too), but apparently it didn't save? I went back and tried to learn how afterwards and I can't find a save button anywhere, the recording just goes away as soon as I end the call.

  110. L29Ah

    sounds like a web application

  111. sebastian

    Sam: i asked. Thanks that you tried. For future recordings you might want to keep OBS in mind, If the BBB recording does not work ๐Ÿ™‚

  112. Sam

    The internet suggests that this did work and that it just takes a long time to post process (and that there's no indication that your video exists in the mean time) so it may be that I just have to wait a while

  113. Sam

    I'm not familiar with OBS

  114. moparisthebest

    > sounds like a web application ๐Ÿคฃ๏ธ

  115. Sam

    Oh I see, this is a streaming thing. I think it needs to be a video chat thing where others can talk back too to facilitate round tables and questions and the like. If the user has to be on youtube or something, or loading the stream, and join a room (but there's also youtube or facebook chat), etc. things just get confusing

  116. Sam

    but we'll see. Let me log back in and see if it ever finished

  117. moparisthebest

    oh I thought he just meant use OBS to record to a file that you could share later

  118. Sam

    Oh, maybe it's a recorder too? The thing I looked up looked like it was just for streaming

  119. Sam

    I definitely don't have the bandwidth to figure out some external thing, but if BBB doesn't work someone else is welcome to figure out recording and do that (assuming the presenter that week approves)

  120. moparisthebest

    OBS can definitely record to a file, but so can, say, ffmpeg

  121. Sam

    I am definitely not spending time trying to convince ffmpeg to do anything :) that's always a losing battle.

  122. moparisthebest

    I'll play around with ffmpeg and see if I can get it to just record 1 window, if so, I'll volunteer to record it

  123. Sam


  124. Sam

    Hopefully BBB will randomly finish processing and it won't be an issue, we'll see.

  125. moparisthebest

    I don't really want to install OBS or learn a GUI program either... :P

  126. sebastian

    > oh I thought he just meant use OBS to record to a file that you could share later moparisthebest: Sam exactly. You can record with OBS.

  127. sebastian

    > I don't really want to install OBS or learn a GUI program either... :P It is more or less intuitive ๐Ÿ˜‰

  128. L29Ah


  129. moparisthebest

    intuitive: ffmpeg -video_size 1024x768 -framerate 25 -f x11grab -i :0.0+100,200 -f alsa -ac 2 -i hw:0 output.mkv not intuitive: clicking anything with a mouse >:) ( https://trac.ffmpeg.org/wiki/Capture/Desktop )

  130. Zash

    Isn't it a bit weird to record video from the camera, show it on the desktop, record the desktop...

  131. moparisthebest

    I was just planning on recording the entire window, which is maybe some video, a presentation, and the chat ?

  132. L29Ah

    obs allows you to pick a window you want to record

  133. eevvoor

    The new MUC for the brand new OX: xmpp:ox@conference.jabber.de?join ๐Ÿ˜‰๏ธ let's celebrate the year of the OX.

  134. moparisthebest

    the year of the question https://i.imgflip.com/53ayjs.jpg

  135. Zash

    And then MLS in the corner

  136. moparisthebest

    my impression is that's dead in the water

  137. Zash

    In what way?

  138. moparisthebest

    is a single client dev involved in MLS or is it a design-by-committee thing ?

  139. Zash

    I don't know, I think it's a bunch of the currently non-federated chat apps and some Matrix folks

  140. moparisthebest

    sounds dead to me

  141. Zash

    So you're saying it'll win?

  142. moparisthebest

    I'd bet MIX will be widely deployed before it is

  143. Daniel

    Wire is pretty heavily involved, no?

  144. Daniel

    I don't know if they are sending their developers but at least it's people from that company

  145. Zash

    I also got the impression from the architecture docs that it's made for eventually consistent protocols and federated message passing is not something considered.

  146. Zash

    Requiring a reliable transport and such, which happens to be pretty hard in a federated system.

  147. Zash

    Might have seen someone mention that, so maybe it'll get fixed.

  148. Zash

    I'm just lurking on the mailing list so far. I'd encourage you to do the same. If nothing else there might be ideas that could be applicable to OMEMO/OX.

  149. moparisthebest

    sounds like you can count on them purposefully designing it to exclude federation then

  150. Daniel

    I generally find it to be slightly more difficult to get involved with ietf working groups than in was with the xsf

  151. Zash

    I also think the idea is to get it reviewed in the way TLS 1.3 got

  152. Daniel

    I generally find it to be slightly more difficult to get involved with ietf working groups than with the xsf

  153. Zash

    Daniel, signing up for some mailing list and lurking should be about as hard, no?

  154. Daniel

    I'm doing the lurking part successfully

  155. Zash

    The $800+travel expenses 3 times per year is a bit hefty tho.

  156. Zash

    Tho the XSF has sponsored that kind of thing in the past, so shouldn't be a huge problem.

  157. Daniel

    Yes we talked about that specifically wrt to MLS

  158. Daniel

    But covid

  159. Zash

    Yes, covid

  160. Daniel

    In person it might actually be easier I guess.

  161. Zash

    Haven't actually attended the online IETF they do now, just lurked in hallways.

  162. Daniel

    But I had a hard time phrasing questions in a smart enough manner to not simply be ignored on the list

  163. Sam

    sebastian: looks like there is a recording now, just no indication that it was processing. I'll find somewhere to put it up shortly.

  164. sebastian

    Sam: no rush ๐Ÿ™‚ thx

  165. Sam

    Seems like a pretty serious UX issue with BBB.

  166. Sam

    LInk is updated in the schedule.

  167. Sam

    sebastian: no idea how to private message from this client. Sorry about the link being hidden, you're correct it's on the right most column of the spreadsheet. Here it is: https://youtu.be/WFEXWtQIHM8

  168. sebastian

    Thanks ๐Ÿ˜๐Ÿ‘