XSF Discussion - 2021-04-21


  1. sidereal0

    gajim and dino's omemo has worked with each other, but they haven't worked with conversations.im

  2. Ge0rG

    Also origin-id must die.

  3. edhelas

    Ge0rG to be replaced by ?

  4. Zash

    top-level id attr

  5. Zash

    make origin-id == @id a MUST NOT

  6. Ge0rG

    edhelas: the only information it coneys on top of @id is that the client honestly promises not to reuse @id values

  7. Ge0rG

    Other than that, it's just xml bloat and additional complexity for people wondering which id to use

  8. edhelas is part of those people

  9. edhelas

    if only XMPP was one big centralized database

  10. Holger

    To be fair the real reasoning for origin-id is (was?) that some MUC services rewrote the top-level `id`, right ...

  11. Zash

    edhelas: you mean a gloablly distributed eventually consistent json graph database? geeeeet out!

  12. Ge0rG

    Holger: yes, and we solved that root cause.

  13. Ge0rG

    edhelas: use the @id attribute unless the specification you are implementing tells you which id to use.

  14. Holger

    Right. I just thought it might be useful to understand how we ended up here (e.g. to understand whether/why we can change/revert that idea again).

  15. Ge0rG

    Unless it tells you to use origin-id, in which case still use @id

  16. Ge0rG

    Holger: we ended up here because when 6120 was written, nobody expected we would have solved the "enough random data available" problem.

  17. Holger

    Plus (or mainly?) nobody anticipated real use cases for a proper ID.

  18. Holger

    When you fire and forget you don't need one.

  19. Ge0rG

    Yeah, IQs weren't so important back then

  20. Holger

    They were, and what I said is true nevertheless 😉

  21. Ge0rG

    edhelas: you need to design your receiver in a way that will gracefully degrade when somebody sends you non unique IDs, because you can't prevent it anyway.

  22. Ge0rG

    Also if you receive stanzas with no ID, or if somebody is using auto increment integers and starts anew every few minutes

  23. Ge0rG

    And if somebody claims they can guarantee sending really random IDs, I'll kindly remind them of https://android-developers.googleblog.com/2013/08/some-securerandom-thoughts.html

  24. moparisthebest

    what about debian ? too old ?