XSF Discussion - 2021-04-21

00:01:45 mukt2 has left
00:02:44 BASSGOD has left
00:13:26 Zash has joined
00:19:30 winfried has joined
00:20:04 mukt2 has joined
00:22:42 stp has left
00:26:55 Kev has left
00:27:03 Kev has joined
00:37:01 Adi has left
00:37:04 neshtaxmpp has joined
00:37:22 Adi has joined
00:37:52 Alex has joined
00:41:17 arc has left
00:41:27 arc has joined
00:42:15 BASSGOD has joined
00:43:54 Alex has left
00:44:48 Seve has left
00:48:17 stpeter has joined
00:48:18 stpeter has left
00:49:35 Kev has left
00:50:15 mukt2 has left
00:51:29 Kev has joined
00:52:17 mukt2 has joined
00:54:41 alex-a-soto has joined
01:07:00 arc has left
01:07:01 arc has joined
01:07:37 mukt2 has left
01:08:21 mukt2 has joined
01:10:00 arc has left
01:10:16 arc has joined
01:14:41 adiaholic has joined
01:22:19 adiaholic has left
01:32:22 mukt2 has left
01:36:42 andrey.g has left
01:36:48 stp has joined
01:39:38 Kev has left
01:39:58 Kev has joined
01:41:16 adiaholic has joined
01:48:37 adiaholic has left
01:54:49 stp has left
01:55:22 stp has joined
01:56:35 mukt2 has joined
01:57:41 adiaholic has joined
02:11:30 govanify has left
02:11:31 govanify has joined
02:12:01 mukt2 has left
02:19:01 arc has left
02:19:01 arc has joined
02:24:17 stp has left
02:28:49 mukt2 has joined
02:30:28 Kev has left
02:30:46 Kev has joined
02:44:59 mukt2 has left
02:53:28 govanify has left
02:53:28 govanify has joined
02:56:24 Kev has left
02:56:36 Kev has joined
03:04:12 mukt2 has joined
03:05:03 serge90 has left
03:15:22 BASSGOD has left
03:21:48 BASSGOD has joined
03:25:24 Kev has left
03:25:55 Yagiza has joined
03:40:46 mukt2 has left
03:46:04 mukt2 has joined
03:47:24 Seve has joined
03:49:03 adiaholic has left
03:51:55 adiaholic has joined
03:56:25 chronosx88 has joined
03:57:24 lorddavidiii has left
03:57:24 ti_gj06 has joined
04:03:54 lorddavidiii has joined
04:04:13 adiaholic has left
04:06:10 menel has joined
04:06:16 adiaholic has joined
04:37:29 andy has joined
04:37:45 stpeter has joined
04:37:45 stpeter has left
04:40:47 sebastian has left
04:42:29 sebastian has joined
04:50:30 DebXWoody has joined
04:54:13 Tobias has joined
04:55:29 adiaholic has left
04:55:57 paul has joined
05:01:15 adiaholic has joined
05:04:13 govanify has left
05:04:13 govanify has joined
05:06:16 Zash has left
05:12:10 adiaholic has left
05:12:53 alexbay218 has left
05:19:13 govanify has left
05:19:14 govanify has joined
05:21:16 adiaholic has joined
05:21:52 wendy has left
05:26:21 adiaholic has left
05:33:34 adiaholic has joined
05:38:39 adiaholic has left
05:41:16 adiaholic has joined
05:42:03 mukt2 has left
05:46:33 emus has joined
05:47:19 winfried has left
05:47:21 winfried has joined
05:50:10 menel has left
05:51:40 adiaholic has left
05:56:54 Zash has joined
05:57:00 govanify has left
05:57:01 govanify has joined
05:58:17 chronosx88 has left
05:58:19 chronosx88 has joined
05:59:54 adiaholic has joined
06:04:09 hamish has joined
06:08:14 adiaholic has left
06:12:31 emus has left
06:13:50 emus has joined
06:21:16 adiaholic has joined
06:21:47 wurstsalat has joined
06:27:40 chronosx88 has left
06:27:43 chronosx88 has joined
06:29:22 chronosx88 has left
06:29:24 chronosx88 has joined
06:32:24 adiaholic has left
06:32:32 chronosx88 has left
06:32:34 chronosx88 has joined
06:34:53 millesimus has left
06:35:05 chronosx88 has left
06:35:07 chronosx88 has joined
06:35:30 adiaholic has joined
06:36:30 millesimus has joined
06:37:59 marek has left
06:38:11 chronosx88 has left
06:38:13 chronosx88 has joined
06:38:22 Alex has joined
06:39:24 marek has joined
06:42:26 Aleksej has joined
06:42:52 adiaholic has left
06:43:34 floretta has left
06:43:56 floretta has joined
06:45:07 croax has joined
06:49:17 papatutuwawa has joined
07:00:08 adiaholic has joined
07:03:30 Syndace has left
07:03:47 Syndace has joined
07:03:52 floretta has left
07:06:29 adiaholic has left
07:06:48 mukt2 has joined
07:08:55 deuill has left
07:11:15 bean has joined
07:12:16 deuill has joined
07:14:18 karoshi has joined
07:16:30 adiaholic has joined
07:16:57 menel has joined
07:17:33 BASSGOD has left
07:17:36 Kev has joined
07:17:43 Kev has left
07:18:23 Kev has joined
07:22:47 debacle has joined
07:24:01 BASSGOD has joined
07:32:05 BASSGOD has left
07:34:42 adiaholic has left
07:35:14 adiaholic has joined
07:41:47 BASSGOD has joined
07:44:34 menel has left
07:48:05 floretta has joined
07:52:48 Syndace has left
07:52:54 Syndace has joined
07:53:40 mdosch has left
07:54:24 mdosch has joined
07:55:35 lovetox has left
07:57:52 papatutuwawa has left
08:05:05 mukt2 has left
08:08:05 krauq has left
08:09:35 chronosx88 has left
08:09:42 chronosx88 has joined
08:10:04 mukt2 has joined
08:10:19 lovetox has joined
08:17:06 adiaholic has left
08:20:37 sonny has left
08:20:38 sonny has joined
08:21:17 adiaholic has joined
08:21:59 sonny has left
08:22:01 sonny has joined
08:25:52 stp has joined
08:26:51 krauq has joined
08:26:53 alameyo has left
08:27:09 adiaholic has left
08:27:47 mukt2 has left
08:28:10 Andrzej has joined
08:28:46 chronosx88 has left
08:28:49 chronosx88 has joined
08:30:16 mukt2 has joined
08:32:24 alameyo has joined
08:37:57 bean has left
08:38:02 bean has joined
08:38:02 bean has left
08:38:06 bean has joined
08:40:09 goffi has joined
08:46:15 moparisthebest has left
08:46:51 adiaholic has joined
08:47:14 sonny has left
08:47:21 sonny has joined
08:48:30 moparisthebest has joined
08:52:07 adiaholic has left
08:53:37 LNJ has joined
08:57:18 mukt2 has left
09:11:48 mukt2 has joined
09:16:32 floretta has left
09:20:53 chronosx88 has left
09:20:57 chronosx88 has joined
09:24:35 chronosx88 has left
09:24:41 chronosx88 has joined
09:26:28 sonny has left
09:26:31 sonny has joined
09:28:36 neshtaxmpp has left
09:30:43 BASSGOD has left
09:33:28 BASSGOD has joined
09:33:55 neshtaxmpp has joined
09:35:47 adiaholic has joined
09:42:01 mukt2 has left
09:42:11 mukt2 has joined
09:42:29 menel has joined
09:44:14 Syndace has left
09:44:30 Syndace has joined
09:44:33 ti_gj06 has left
09:44:34 ti_gj06 has joined
09:45:43 floretta has joined
09:46:20 ti_gj06 has left
09:53:05 hamish has left
09:53:19 hamish has joined
09:53:22 stp has left
09:59:37 stp has joined
10:03:42 chronosx88 has left
10:03:46 chronosx88 has joined
10:07:16 mukt2 has left
10:09:34 lskdjf has joined
10:10:20 mukt2 has joined
10:11:11 adiaholic has left
10:11:21 adiaholic has joined
10:14:06 antranigv has joined
10:14:38 Andrzej has left
10:14:57 Andrzej has joined
10:15:45 mathijs has left
10:15:45 mathijs has joined
10:16:16 Vaulor has left
10:17:09 adiaholic has left
10:17:32 Andrzej has left
10:20:21 Steve Kille has left
10:23:32 adiaholic has joined
10:26:38 Andrzej has joined
10:28:26 Vaulor has joined
10:36:19 mathijs has left
10:36:31 mathijs has joined
10:38:23 Syndace has left
10:38:27 Syndace has joined
10:39:59 menel has left
10:42:13 Andrzej has left
10:45:20 Guus has left
10:45:28 Steve Kille has joined
10:47:29 BASSGOD has left
10:48:45 hamish has left
10:51:48 BASSGOD has joined
10:53:17 mukt2 has left
10:55:36 Wojtek has joined
10:56:14 adiaholic has left
10:56:53 Syndace has left
10:56:58 adiaholic has joined
10:57:22 Syndace has joined
10:58:53 Andrzej has joined
11:00:25 ti_gj06 has joined
11:01:23 peetah has left
11:02:25 peetah has joined
11:02:31 peetah has left
11:03:36 peetah has joined
11:04:38 adiaholic has left
11:05:31 adiaholic has joined
11:11:56 Syndace has left
11:11:59 Syndace has joined
11:13:44 adiaholic has left
11:17:18 papatutuwawa has joined
11:17:48 adiaholic has joined
11:19:04 Guus has joined
11:22:15 mukt2 has joined
11:26:05 antranigv has left
11:26:06 lovetox has left
11:26:53 Guus has left
11:28:21 Syndace has left
11:28:25 Syndace has joined
11:34:04 Yagiza has left
11:34:30 Yagiza has joined
11:42:54 Andrzej has left
11:43:32 Syndace has left
11:43:36 Syndace has joined
11:44:05 edhelas has left
11:44:29 edhelas has joined
11:46:44 ti_gj06 has left
11:46:45 ti_gj06 has joined
11:47:43 BASSGOD has left
11:51:11 Aleksej has left
11:52:19 hamish has joined
11:53:29 floretta has left
11:53:29 Vaulor has left
11:54:36 floretta has joined
11:56:54 BASSGOD has joined
11:57:35 papatutuwawa has left
11:59:02 Syndace has left
11:59:05 Syndace has joined
11:59:43 mathijs has left
11:59:43 mathijs has joined
12:07:35 antranigv has joined
12:13:38 peetah has left
12:21:50 papatutuwawa has joined
12:23:22 peetah has joined
12:27:09 Syndace has left
12:27:13 Syndace has joined
12:28:57 lovetox has joined
12:29:31 Vaulor has joined
12:41:29 Andrzej has joined
12:46:43 Syndace has left
12:47:02 Syndace has joined
12:47:30 peetah has left
12:47:50 peetah has joined
12:48:41 BASSGOD has left
12:52:23 adiaholic has left
12:52:50 BASSGOD has joined
12:53:35 peetah has left
12:53:43 Andrzej has left
12:53:44 Andrzej has joined
12:57:24 peetah has joined
12:58:27 papatutuwawa has left
13:12:14 wendy has joined
13:12:46 ti_gj06 has left
13:14:07 Andrzej has left
13:14:15 Andrzej has joined
13:14:31 Syndace has left
13:14:59 Syndace has joined
13:15:29 pasdesushi has joined
13:16:31 adiaholic has joined
13:21:33 pasdesushi has left
13:21:40 mathijs has left
13:24:37 mathijs has joined
13:30:13 Andrzej has left
13:30:13 stpeter has joined
13:30:14 stpeter has left
13:30:25 Andrzej has joined
13:34:05 adiaholic has left
13:35:53 Syndace has left
13:36:48 adiaholic has joined
13:36:50 Syndace has joined
13:45:18 menel has joined
13:45:36 Andrzej has left
13:56:47 adiaholic has left
14:01:14 adiaholic has joined
14:07:03 Andrzej has joined
14:07:52 adiaholic has left
14:08:48 wendy has left
14:15:07 wendy has joined
14:15:08 adiaholic has joined
14:18:38 DebXWoody has left
14:18:51 DebXWoody has joined
14:19:43 sidereal0 has joined
14:20:52 sidereal0 gajim and dino's omemo has worked with each other, but they haven't worked with conversations.im
14:24:20 alameyo has left
14:24:54 Andrzej has left
14:27:01 adiaholic has left
14:31:14 Yagiza has left
14:31:21 Yagiza has joined
14:32:13 stpeter has joined
14:32:14 stpeter has left
14:32:51 mukt2 has left
14:36:18 adiaholic has joined
14:38:23 Adi has left
14:38:25 Adi has joined
14:40:25 Andrzej has joined
14:41:32 Andrzej has left
14:41:34 Andrzej has joined
14:46:36 mukt2 has joined
14:47:57 Syndace has left
14:48:01 Syndace has joined
14:51:09 peetah has left
15:17:38 Syndace has left
15:17:48 Syndace has joined
15:23:06 goffi has left
15:35:35 BASSGOD has left
15:37:02 BASSGOD has joined
15:46:05 chronosx88 has left
15:46:11 chronosx88 has joined
15:46:50 BASSGOD has left
15:51:33 goffi has joined
15:51:48 BASSGOD has joined
15:54:38 ti_gj06 has joined
15:57:27 chronosx88 has left
15:57:33 chronosx88 has joined
15:58:34 Steve Kille has left
15:59:03 Andrzej has left
15:59:53 chronosx88 has left
16:00:00 chronosx88 has joined
16:00:15 BASSGOD has left
16:00:30 chronosx88 has left
16:01:00 Steve Kille has joined
16:01:10 Steve Kille has left
16:01:17 Steve Kille has joined
16:01:47 BASSGOD has joined
16:01:57 Syndace has left
16:01:58 adiaholic has left
16:02:01 Syndace has joined
16:03:02 ti_gj06 has left
16:04:02 peetah has joined
16:04:06 chronosx88 has joined
16:05:14 ti_gj06 has joined
16:06:51 adiaholic has joined
16:10:13 chronosx88 has left
16:10:20 chronosx88 has joined
16:12:12 chronosx88 has left
16:13:40 chronosx88 has joined
16:13:54 adiaholic has left
16:20:51 peetah has left
16:21:56 adiaholic has joined
16:22:17 peetah has joined
16:23:15 chronosx88 has left
16:23:24 chronosx88 has joined
16:24:02 Guus has joined
16:28:03 adiaholic has left
16:28:15 chronosx88 has left
16:28:21 chronosx88 has joined
16:33:29 Andrzej has joined
16:35:07 werdan has joined
16:35:49 Freddy has left
16:35:59 Lance has joined
16:36:30 Lance has left
16:37:01 adiaholic has joined
16:37:13 chronosx88 has left
16:37:19 chronosx88 has joined
16:37:57 sonny has left
16:38:10 sonny has joined
16:43:47 adiaholic has left
16:43:53 Guus has left
16:48:24 adiaholic has joined
16:53:27 adiaholic has left
16:54:11 adiaholic has joined
16:55:42 stpeter has joined
16:55:42 stpeter has left
16:58:37 nyco has joined
17:05:05 nyco has left
17:05:49 Freddy has joined
17:07:17 Freddy has left
17:08:01 Freddy has joined
17:09:59 wendy has left
17:10:06 wendy has joined
17:20:42 chronosx88 has left
17:20:49 chronosx88 has joined
17:24:01 adiaholic has left
17:24:31 arcxi has left
17:24:52 arcxi has joined
17:26:38 adiaholic has joined
17:31:41 adiaholic has left
17:31:53 menel has left
17:31:54 menel has joined
17:32:23 adiaholic has joined
17:35:13 chronosx88 has left
17:35:19 chronosx88 has joined
17:37:07 Seve has left
17:37:27 adiaholic has left
17:38:01 papatutuwawa has joined
17:39:34 Ge0rG Also origin-id must die.
17:40:14 edhelas Ge0rG to be replaced by ?
17:40:50 Zash top-level id attr
17:41:37 Zash make origin-id == @id a MUST NOT
17:42:48 Ge0rG edhelas: the only information it coneys on top of @id is that the client honestly promises not to reuse @id values
17:43:30 Ge0rG Other than that, it's just xml bloat and additional complexity for people wondering which id to use
17:43:45 edhelas is part of those people
17:44:07 edhelas if only XMPP was one big centralized database
17:45:00 Holger To be fair the real reasoning for origin-id is (was?) that some MUC services rewrote the top-level `id`, right ...
17:45:27 Zash edhelas: you mean a gloablly distributed eventually consistent json graph database? geeeeet out!
17:45:59 Ge0rG Holger: yes, and we solved that root cause.
17:47:08 Ge0rG edhelas: use the @id attribute unless the specification you are implementing tells you which id to use.
17:47:10 Holger Right. I just thought it might be useful to understand how we ended up here (e.g. to understand whether/why we can change/revert that idea again).
17:47:32 Ge0rG Unless it tells you to use origin-id, in which case still use @id
17:47:52 arc has left
17:47:54 arc has joined
17:48:12 Seve has joined
17:48:23 arc has left
17:48:23 arc has joined
17:48:28 Ge0rG Holger: we ended up here because when 6120 was written, nobody expected we would have solved the "enough random data available" problem.
17:49:31 Holger Plus (or mainly?) nobody anticipated real use cases for a proper ID.
17:49:40 adiaholic has joined
17:49:57 Holger When you fire and forget you don't need one.
17:51:10 BASSGOD has left
17:52:01 Ge0rG Yeah, IQs weren't so important back then
17:53:08 Holger They were, and what I said is true nevertheless 😉
17:53:39 BASSGOD has joined
17:55:34 karoshi has left
17:55:59 Ge0rG edhelas: you need to design your receiver in a way that will gracefully degrade when somebody sends you non unique IDs, because you can't prevent it anyway.
17:56:42 Ge0rG Also if you receive stanzas with no ID, or if somebody is using auto increment integers and starts anew every few minutes
17:58:22 adiaholic has left
17:58:54 ti_gj06 has left
17:59:08 Ge0rG And if somebody claims they can guarantee sending really random IDs, I'll kindly remind them of https://android-developers.googleblog.com/2013/08/some-securerandom-thoughts.html
17:59:11 Yagiza has left
17:59:36 karoshi has joined
18:00:55 arc has left
18:00:56 arc has joined
18:01:44 Maranda has left
18:02:23 arc has left
18:02:30 arc has joined
18:04:48 adiaholic has joined
18:05:21 Wojtek has left
18:06:03 karoshi has left
18:06:24 Maranda has joined
18:09:50 adiaholic has left
18:12:06 Seve has left
18:12:34 karoshi has joined
18:14:59 Andrzej has left
18:19:13 karoshi has left
18:22:21 adiaholic has joined
18:23:39 Seve has joined
18:23:59 karoshi has joined
18:24:50 moparisthebest what about debian ? too old ?
18:27:00 xsf has left
18:27:22 adiaholic has left
18:29:46 karoshi has left
18:31:37 adiaholic has joined
18:33:16 karoshi has joined
18:34:46 edhelas has left
18:35:11 edhelas has joined
18:36:40 adiaholic has left
18:38:09 arc has left
18:38:09 arc has joined
18:39:33 arc has left
18:39:42 arc has joined
18:41:21 adiaholic has joined
18:45:14 arc has left
18:45:15 arc has joined
18:45:44 arc has left
18:45:54 arc has joined
18:46:25 adiaholic has left
18:52:14 xsf has joined
18:52:28 adiaholic has joined
18:55:36 andrey.g has joined
18:55:46 papatutuwawa has left
18:58:54 adiaholic has left
19:01:22 adiaholic has joined
19:11:21 chronosx88 has left
19:12:15 xsf has left
19:13:46 adiaholic has left
19:19:28 govanify has left
19:19:29 govanify has joined
19:26:25 alameyo has joined
19:30:25 arc has left
19:30:25 arc has joined
19:35:40 karoshi has left
19:35:53 alameyo has left
19:37:14 stpeter has joined
19:37:14 stpeter has left
19:37:31 wendy has left
19:39:49 karoshi has joined
19:40:24 deuill has left
19:41:07 xsf has joined
19:41:19 deuill has joined
19:42:21 adiaholic has joined
19:44:45 wendy has joined
19:47:22 adiaholic has left
19:54:42 chronosx88 has joined
19:59:29 Andrzej has joined
20:05:51 arc has left
20:05:52 arc has joined
20:06:34 arc has left
20:06:40 arc has joined
20:09:54 Syndace has left
20:09:57 Syndace has joined
20:10:22 Andrzej has left
20:12:20 arc has left
20:12:21 arc has joined
20:12:51 arc has left
20:13:03 arc has joined
20:19:27 govanify has left
20:21:06 govanify has joined
20:21:40 adiaholic has joined
20:24:51 Syndace has left
20:24:56 Syndace has joined
20:28:38 adiaholic has left
20:31:19 adiaholic has joined
20:36:24 adiaholic has left
20:38:48 werdan has left
20:40:11 chronosx88 has left
20:40:12 chronosx88 has joined
20:42:36 sebastian has left
20:42:37 sebastian has joined
20:43:16 lorddavidiii has left
20:43:22 adiaholic has joined
20:48:22 adiaholic has left
20:51:07 Lance has joined
20:51:15 adiaholic has joined
20:53:36 DebXWoody has left
20:55:12 Ge0rG has left
20:55:26 Ge0rG has joined
20:55:36 mukt2 has left
20:56:52 lovetox has left
20:59:20 bean has left
21:00:12 adiaholic has left
21:01:20 DebXWoody has joined
21:02:10 DebXWoody has left
21:04:58 arc has left
21:04:59 arc has joined
21:06:08 arc has left
21:06:22 arc has joined
21:09:23 BASSGOD has left
21:11:48 BASSGOD has joined
21:12:04 Ge0rG has left
21:12:28 Ge0rG has joined
21:16:02 Aleksej has joined
21:16:59 karoshi has left
21:17:26 Aleksej has left
21:17:34 adiaholic has joined
21:18:29 goffi has left
21:20:55 ti_gj06 has joined
21:21:05 Tobias has left
21:22:37 adiaholic has left
21:23:40 arc has left
21:23:41 arc has joined
21:25:49 mukt2 has joined
21:28:18 Ge0rG has left
21:28:31 Ge0rG has joined
21:29:55 alameyo has joined
21:31:22 adiaholic has joined
21:33:43 ti_gj06 has left
21:35:11 neshtaxmpp has left
21:37:29 croax has left
21:44:25 Lance has left
21:45:29 goffi has joined
21:45:31 adiaholic has left
21:49:40 xecks has left
21:49:41 xecks has joined
21:50:40 andy has left
21:58:57 arc has left
21:58:58 arc has joined
22:00:22 arc has left
22:00:22 arc has joined
22:00:51 Lance has joined
22:00:57 goffi has left
22:01:24 menel has left
22:06:51 Syndace has left
22:06:55 Syndace has joined
22:10:42 neshtaxmpp has joined
22:10:56 karoshi has joined
22:11:36 xecks has left
22:16:17 adiaholic has joined
22:19:07 Zash has left
22:23:52 adiaholic has left
22:26:54 mukt2 has left
22:27:07 Syndace has left
22:29:10 Syndace has joined
22:33:05 neshtaxmpp has left
22:41:20 adiaholic has joined
22:44:00 Lance has left
22:47:04 adiaholic has left
23:01:16 LNJ has left
23:04:20 stp has left
23:04:40 Lance has joined
23:16:50 paul has left
23:21:32 Seve has left
23:21:40 lovetox has joined
23:29:25 stp has joined
23:31:54 adiaholic has joined
23:32:44 murabito has joined
23:34:11 debacle has left
23:34:17 emus has left
23:36:58 adiaholic has left
23:44:37 murabito has left
23:46:55 arc has left
23:46:56 arc has joined
23:49:05 Lance has left
23:50:00 wurstsalat has left
23:51:06 arc has left
23:51:06 arc has joined
23:51:07 adiaholic has joined
23:54:11 arc has left
23:54:12 arc has joined
23:56:13 lskdjf has left
23:59:55 adiaholic has left