XSF Discussion - 2021-04-29


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  390. ralphm bangs gavel
  391. ralphm 0. Welcome
  392. ralphm Hi! Who do we have today?
  393. MattJ o/
  394. MattJ (sorry I'm late)
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  397. ralphm Hi MattJ. Seems we have no quorum today.
  398. Zash dwd?
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  407. moparisthebest mathieui, Ge0rG: use WebUSB to scream security warnings through their headsets?
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  409. arc Apparently when the new event was set up I lost my alerts
  410. arc Sorry. Also apparently when someone added the new board meeting event it's set to British daylight savings time
  411. arc This should be fixed
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  414. dwd Really sorry, a meeting overran.
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  418. ralphm arc: wait what? How does that matter for Google Calendar?
  419. arc I hope I don't have to repeat the problem we hit every single year of Britain's insisting on setting the board meeting time to UK thus causing a massive disruption for everyone else
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  422. arc I mean it's bad enough we have hard time change twice a year
  423. arc Had.
  424. ralphm It doesn't matter which timezone the event has, unless the software you use to send you alerts is broken.
  425. arc It matters for daylight savings time. Which should not exist
  426. ralphm I understand your stance on daylight savings, but if you just look at https://calendar.google.com/calendar/embed?src=64v3vs15qlalgqv0j7r99ikm1c%40group.calendar.google.com it will always have the right time for you
  427. arc Actually that's exactly the problem. Because someone said the time to British daylight savings it will shift with British daylight savings time. Therefore from my perspective it changes four times a year
  428. arc I thought we had sent it to UTC so it would never change
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  430. arc Daylight savings is not globally universal. It might be convenient for someone living in the UK but it's doubly inconvenient for someone living anywhere else
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  435. dwd Arc, the UK and EU synchronise dst changes.
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  439. dwd So it's not "UK", but anyone this side of the pond.
  440. Zash That page says "coordinated universal time" for me?
  441. Zash Actually it yells at me for not having JS enabled, and a different page says UTC.
  442. arc Says 5pm bdt
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  444. Kev When it was decided, it was decided pinning to UK (and therefore EU) DST was most convenient for the majority of both Council and Board. If that's not true for the current groups I'm sure it's not irreversible.
  445. arc We specifically decide on utc
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  448. Kev I missed that, but I don't follow the Board minutes religiously. I can't remember reading any for a while.
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  451. arc Several years ago we had a big discussion about screwing over Americans with the board meeting time. And we decided to set the meeting time to UTC
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  460. Kev I missed the memo. Remember the date of the meeting?
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  465. arc I'm sure Ralph remembers the exact meeting date πŸ˜‹
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  469. ralphm arc: if you check the board mailing list message from 2021-03-24, I wrote this: β€œIt appears that the timeslot Thursdays 17:00 UK time works best (17:00 UTC tomorrow, 16:00 from next week onward), so I modified the calendar accordingly.”
  470. ralphm So there's no ambiguity there at all
  471. arc Those minutes need to be updated because it's not agreed to
  472. arc The amount of eurocentrism in this organization is a large reason why I have repeatedly almost let my membership lapse. And I've heard the same for multiple other people
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  474. MattJ Ok, I wasn't going to say anything, but...
  475. moparisthebest to be fair, and as an american, isn't the board and council almost entirely european anyway? :/
  476. MattJ I personally don't care what timezone it is set to in the calendar. I don't see what difference it makes. If you feel excluded, let's update the calender to UTC. But being in UTC doesn't mean I can make it at that time
  477. MattJ You said the meeting will change 4 times for a non-EU person, but pinning it to UTC does the same for everyone, on the assumption that we will actually reschedule the meeting at some additional arbitrary time to line up with everyone changing DST
  478. ralphm arc: to be clear, this message is not part of minutes. I set up a when2meet thing, we collected times for the week after the DST change in Europe, to make sure everything was super clear, to explicitly prevent being affected by DST for *your* sake. I don't understand why you are making an issue about this now.
  479. MattJ Since we will very likely adjust the meeting per DST twice a year anyway, I would rather coincide that with an existing DST change *somewhere*
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  481. MattJ Separately I would observe that pinning it to US DST changes could mean that a significant number of board members may be unable to attend for the few weeks difference in DST dates. But again, pinning it to UTC will have the same effect for everyone.
  482. MattJ But again, I really don't care what the calendar says... it doesn't change whether I can attend at a given time or not
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  486. emus I would like to suggest again to test alternating meeting times. still in a range "both sides" can deal with but giving each time a bit more credit to loc1 or loc2. so its not that one always has to deal with "bad times"
  487. arc ralphm: I'm making an issue because I was trying to figure out why I wasn't getting an alert. And it was just because the meeting was changed again and I didn't set up an alert. But in the process I noticed that the meeting and time was pinned to europe daylight savings time
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  490. arc MattJ: and that is exactly why we agreed to UTC. That way everyone just has to adjust for their own daylight savings time, where the even exists. My state is one of the states that wants to end it, we are just waiting on California. Then the pacific daylight savings time will cease to exist in this country.
  491. arc Because when you connect to UTC it only changes twice a year. But when you put it to any time zone with daylight saving, if forces it to change four times a year for everyone else.
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  493. Zash How about don't have meetings at all during this period?
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  495. ralphm arc: but we did set a specific time, specified in both UTC and UK time in my e-mail. You have been in time for meetings since then (on March 25, April 1 and 15), and so I think it just boils down to you not having set an alert properly.
  496. ralphm Zash: sometimes we're busy and we skip meetings, and that's fine.
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  500. arc I'm really just raising an alert for the time zone. Because soon enough we forget and then it's a problem again.
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  504. arc And I was responding to Kev's statement about locking into European time/dst, in regard to eurocentrism
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  518. ralphm I don't think we run the risk of forgetting.
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  646. emus Reminder to use the chance to add your news and articles to the XMPP Newsletter! https://fosstodon.org/web/statuses/106150403318042414 --> If anyone can make this a tweet as well that would be a great support! ❀️
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  667. Ge0rG I suppose VaxBot was covered already?
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  672. Ge0rG I'd write a post about the performance of prosody MAM backends, all I need is a tool to benchmark random read queries
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  685. emus Ge0rG, happy to place it there. Yes someone wrote something about the Vaxbot and I have it on my radar aswell
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  688. emus But maybe we can only publish it in the next release, or do you make it by tomorrow?
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  691. Ge0rG emus: I have some links in https://yaxim.org/blog/2021/04/09/vaxbot-performance-challenge/ but no idea what already was on the news
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  718. emus It is mentioned in the Monal news section. But I can agree to to make it a separate article as well!
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  731. Ge0rG emus: please do! Feel free to copy whatever is needed from my article
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  741. emus Yes will do. One is always able to add news themselves
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  746. Ge0rG I wish I had the time.
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