XSF Discussion - 2021-04-29

0. Welcome

Hi! Who do we have today?

o/

(sorry I'm late)

Hi MattJ. Seems we have no quorum today.

dwd?

+1W

mathieui, Ge0rG: use WebUSB to scream security warnings through their headsets?

Apparently when the new event was set up I lost my alerts

Sorry. Also apparently when someone added the new board meeting event it's set to British daylight savings time

This should be fixed

Really sorry, a meeting overran.

arc: wait what? How does that matter for Google Calendar?

I hope I don't have to repeat the problem we hit every single year of Britain's insisting on setting the board meeting time to UK thus causing a massive disruption for everyone else

I mean it's bad enough we have hard time change twice a year

Had.

It doesn't matter which timezone the event has, unless the software you use to send you alerts is broken.

It matters for daylight savings time. Which should not exist

I understand your stance on daylight savings, but if you just look at https://calendar.google.com/calendar/embed?src=64v3vs15qlalgqv0j7r99ikm1c%40group.calendar.google.com it will always have the right time for you

Actually that's exactly the problem. Because someone said the time to British daylight savings it will shift with British daylight savings time. Therefore from my perspective it changes four times a year

I thought we had sent it to UTC so it would never change

Daylight savings is not globally universal. It might be convenient for someone living in the UK but it's doubly inconvenient for someone living anywhere else

Arc, the UK and EU synchronise dst changes.

So it's not "UK", but anyone this side of the pond.

That page says "coordinated universal time" for me?

Actually it yells at me for not having JS enabled, and a different page says UTC.

Says 5pm bdt

When it was decided, it was decided pinning to UK (and therefore EU) DST was most convenient for the majority of both Council and Board. If that's not true for the current groups I'm sure it's not irreversible.

We specifically decide on utc

I missed that, but I don't follow the Board minutes religiously. I can't remember reading any for a while.

Several years ago we had a big discussion about screwing over Americans with the board meeting time. And we decided to set the meeting time to UTC

I missed the memo. Remember the date of the meeting?

I'm sure Ralph remembers the exact meeting date 😋

arc: if you check the board mailing list message from 2021-03-24, I wrote this: “It appears that the timeslot Thursdays 17:00 UK time works best (17:00 UTC tomorrow, 16:00 from next week onward), so I modified the calendar accordingly.”

So there's no ambiguity there at all

Those minutes need to be updated because it's not agreed to

The amount of eurocentrism in this organization is a large reason why I have repeatedly almost let my membership lapse. And I've heard the same for multiple other people

Ok, I wasn't going to say anything, but...

to be fair, and as an american, isn't the board and council almost entirely european anyway? :/

I personally don't care what timezone it is set to in the calendar. I don't see what difference it makes. If you feel excluded, let's update the calender to UTC. But being in UTC doesn't mean I can make it at that time

You said the meeting will change 4 times for a non-EU person, but pinning it to UTC does the same for everyone, on the assumption that we will actually reschedule the meeting at some additional arbitrary time to line up with everyone changing DST

arc: to be clear, this message is not part of minutes. I set up a when2meet thing, we collected times for the week after the DST change in Europe, to make sure everything was super clear, to explicitly prevent being affected by DST for *your* sake. I don't understand why you are making an issue about this now.

Since we will very likely adjust the meeting per DST twice a year anyway, I would rather coincide that with an existing DST change *somewhere*

Separately I would observe that pinning it to US DST changes could mean that a significant number of board members may be unable to attend for the few weeks difference in DST dates. But again, pinning it to UTC will have the same effect for everyone.

But again, I really don't care what the calendar says... it doesn't change whether I can attend at a given time or not

I would like to suggest again to test alternating meeting times. still in a range "both sides" can deal with but giving each time a bit more credit to loc1 or loc2. so its not that one always has to deal with "bad times"

ralphm: I'm making an issue because I was trying to figure out why I wasn't getting an alert. And it was just because the meeting was changed again and I didn't set up an alert. But in the process I noticed that the meeting and time was pinned to europe daylight savings time

MattJ: and that is exactly why we agreed to UTC. That way everyone just has to adjust for their own daylight savings time, where the even exists. My state is one of the states that wants to end it, we are just waiting on California. Then the pacific daylight savings time will cease to exist in this country.

Because when you connect to UTC it only changes twice a year. But when you put it to any time zone with daylight saving, if forces it to change four times a year for everyone else.

How about don't have meetings at all during this period?

arc: but we did set a specific time, specified in both UTC and UK time in my e-mail. You have been in time for meetings since then (on March 25, April 1 and 15), and so I think it just boils down to you not having set an alert properly.

Zash: sometimes we're busy and we skip meetings, and that's fine.

I'm really just raising an alert for the time zone. Because soon enough we forget and then it's a problem again.

And I was responding to Kev's statement about locking into European time/dst, in regard to eurocentrism

I don't think we run the risk of forgetting.

Reminder to use the chance to add your news and articles to the XMPP Newsletter! https://fosstodon.org/web/statuses/106150403318042414 --> If anyone can make this a tweet as well that would be a great support! ❤️

I suppose VaxBot was covered already?

I'd write a post about the performance of prosody MAM backends, all I need is a tool to benchmark random read queries

Ge0rG, happy to place it there. Yes someone wrote something about the Vaxbot and I have it on my radar aswell

But maybe we can only publish it in the next release, or do you make it by tomorrow?

emus: I have some links in https://yaxim.org/blog/2021/04/09/vaxbot-performance-challenge/ but no idea what already was on the news

It is mentioned in the Monal news section. But I can agree to to make it a separate article as well!

emus: please do! Feel free to copy whatever is needed from my article

Yes will do. One is always able to add news themselves

I wish I had the time.