XSF Discussion - 2021-04-29

  1. ralphm bangs gavel

  2. ralphm

    0. Welcome

  3. ralphm

    Hi! Who do we have today?

  4. MattJ


  5. MattJ

    (sorry I'm late)

  6. ralphm

    Hi MattJ. Seems we have no quorum today.

  7. Zash


  8. ralphm


  9. ralphm unbangs gavel

  10. moparisthebest

    mathieui, Ge0rG: use WebUSB to scream security warnings through their headsets?

  11. arc

    Apparently when the new event was set up I lost my alerts

  12. arc

    Sorry. Also apparently when someone added the new board meeting event it's set to British daylight savings time

  13. arc

    This should be fixed

  14. dwd

    Really sorry, a meeting overran.

  15. ralphm

    arc: wait what? How does that matter for Google Calendar?

  16. arc

    I hope I don't have to repeat the problem we hit every single year of Britain's insisting on setting the board meeting time to UK thus causing a massive disruption for everyone else

  17. arc

    I mean it's bad enough we have hard time change twice a year

  18. arc


  19. ralphm

    It doesn't matter which timezone the event has, unless the software you use to send you alerts is broken.

  20. arc

    It matters for daylight savings time. Which should not exist

  21. ralphm

    I understand your stance on daylight savings, but if you just look at https://calendar.google.com/calendar/embed?src=64v3vs15qlalgqv0j7r99ikm1c%40group.calendar.google.com it will always have the right time for you

  22. arc

    Actually that's exactly the problem. Because someone said the time to British daylight savings it will shift with British daylight savings time. Therefore from my perspective it changes four times a year

  23. arc

    I thought we had sent it to UTC so it would never change

  24. arc

    Daylight savings is not globally universal. It might be convenient for someone living in the UK but it's doubly inconvenient for someone living anywhere else

  25. dwd

    Arc, the UK and EU synchronise dst changes.

  26. dwd

    So it's not "UK", but anyone this side of the pond.

  27. Zash

    That page says "coordinated universal time" for me?

  28. Zash

    Actually it yells at me for not having JS enabled, and a different page says UTC.

  29. arc

    Says 5pm bdt

  30. Kev

    When it was decided, it was decided pinning to UK (and therefore EU) DST was most convenient for the majority of both Council and Board. If that's not true for the current groups I'm sure it's not irreversible.

  31. arc

    We specifically decide on utc

  32. Kev

    I missed that, but I don't follow the Board minutes religiously. I can't remember reading any for a while.

  33. arc

    Several years ago we had a big discussion about screwing over Americans with the board meeting time. And we decided to set the meeting time to UTC

  34. Kev

    I missed the memo. Remember the date of the meeting?

  35. arc

    I'm sure Ralph remembers the exact meeting date πŸ˜‹

  36. ralphm

    arc: if you check the board mailing list message from 2021-03-24, I wrote this: β€œIt appears that the timeslot Thursdays 17:00 UK time works best (17:00 UTC tomorrow, 16:00 from next week onward), so I modified the calendar accordingly.”

  37. ralphm

    So there's no ambiguity there at all

  38. arc

    Those minutes need to be updated because it's not agreed to

  39. arc

    The amount of eurocentrism in this organization is a large reason why I have repeatedly almost let my membership lapse. And I've heard the same for multiple other people

  40. MattJ

    Ok, I wasn't going to say anything, but...

  41. moparisthebest

    to be fair, and as an american, isn't the board and council almost entirely european anyway? :/

  42. MattJ

    I personally don't care what timezone it is set to in the calendar. I don't see what difference it makes. If you feel excluded, let's update the calender to UTC. But being in UTC doesn't mean I can make it at that time

  43. MattJ

    You said the meeting will change 4 times for a non-EU person, but pinning it to UTC does the same for everyone, on the assumption that we will actually reschedule the meeting at some additional arbitrary time to line up with everyone changing DST

  44. ralphm

    arc: to be clear, this message is not part of minutes. I set up a when2meet thing, we collected times for the week after the DST change in Europe, to make sure everything was super clear, to explicitly prevent being affected by DST for *your* sake. I don't understand why you are making an issue about this now.

  45. MattJ

    Since we will very likely adjust the meeting per DST twice a year anyway, I would rather coincide that with an existing DST change *somewhere*

  46. MattJ

    Separately I would observe that pinning it to US DST changes could mean that a significant number of board members may be unable to attend for the few weeks difference in DST dates. But again, pinning it to UTC will have the same effect for everyone.

  47. MattJ

    But again, I really don't care what the calendar says... it doesn't change whether I can attend at a given time or not

  48. emus

    I would like to suggest again to test alternating meeting times. still in a range "both sides" can deal with but giving each time a bit more credit to loc1 or loc2. so its not that one always has to deal with "bad times"

  49. arc

    ralphm: I'm making an issue because I was trying to figure out why I wasn't getting an alert. And it was just because the meeting was changed again and I didn't set up an alert. But in the process I noticed that the meeting and time was pinned to europe daylight savings time

  50. arc

    MattJ: and that is exactly why we agreed to UTC. That way everyone just has to adjust for their own daylight savings time, where the even exists. My state is one of the states that wants to end it, we are just waiting on California. Then the pacific daylight savings time will cease to exist in this country.

  51. arc

    Because when you connect to UTC it only changes twice a year. But when you put it to any time zone with daylight saving, if forces it to change four times a year for everyone else.

  52. Zash

    How about don't have meetings at all during this period?

  53. ralphm

    arc: but we did set a specific time, specified in both UTC and UK time in my e-mail. You have been in time for meetings since then (on March 25, April 1 and 15), and so I think it just boils down to you not having set an alert properly.

  54. ralphm

    Zash: sometimes we're busy and we skip meetings, and that's fine.

  55. arc

    I'm really just raising an alert for the time zone. Because soon enough we forget and then it's a problem again.

  56. arc

    And I was responding to Kev's statement about locking into European time/dst, in regard to eurocentrism

  57. ralphm

    I don't think we run the risk of forgetting.

  58. emus

    Reminder to use the chance to add your news and articles to the XMPP Newsletter! https://fosstodon.org/web/statuses/106150403318042414 --> If anyone can make this a tweet as well that would be a great support! ❀️

  59. Ge0rG

    I suppose VaxBot was covered already?

  60. Ge0rG

    I'd write a post about the performance of prosody MAM backends, all I need is a tool to benchmark random read queries

  61. emus

    Ge0rG, happy to place it there. Yes someone wrote something about the Vaxbot and I have it on my radar aswell

  62. emus

    But maybe we can only publish it in the next release, or do you make it by tomorrow?

  63. Ge0rG

    emus: I have some links in https://yaxim.org/blog/2021/04/09/vaxbot-performance-challenge/ but no idea what already was on the news

  64. emus

    It is mentioned in the Monal news section. But I can agree to to make it a separate article as well!

  65. Ge0rG

    emus: please do! Feel free to copy whatever is needed from my article

  66. emus

    Yes will do. One is always able to add news themselves

  67. Ge0rG

    I wish I had the time.