Ge0rG: would you be interested in doing an Office Hours about the traffic you've seen on your server due to Vaxbot and how you monitor / resolve it? Doesn't have to be anything formal, just a quick talk about how your monitoring setup works and some of the things you've tried to do to keep the service stable
Sam
Just something along the lines of your blog post
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marek
> Ge0rG: would you be interested in doing an Office Hours about the traffic you've seen on your server due to Vaxbot and how you monitor / resolve it? Doesn't have to be anything formal, just a quick talk about how your monitoring setup works and some of the things you've tried to do to keep the service stable
> Just something along the lines of your blog post
I have also seen the question or more an offer of another server admin to spread the load via his server.
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emus
The deployment worked finally: https://xmpp.org/2021/04/newsletter-04-april/
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Ge0rG
marek: I'm interested in a server provider offering IBR without captcha as a fallback server.
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emus
Hello and good Friday ❤️ The XMPP Newsletter on April has been published - again it would be fine if one could make a tweet based on this: https://fosstodon.org/web/statuses/106195170518281226
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lovetox
251
lovetox
4
lovetox
'*
Zash
Kids or cats?
lovetox
please forgive me :/
lovetox
my kid
lovetox
:D
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moparisthebest
so XEP-0352 doesn't give any indication (pun intended) of what stanzas should be dropped, which should be delayed, or really anything else in the implementation right?
MattJ
XEP-0352 is not about dropping, delaying or anything else, no
moparisthebest
shouldn't that be defined in places other than various server implementations ? :/ (they also don't seem to remotely agree)
MattJ
It's purely a signal to the server about the client's current state
Ge0rG
moparisthebest: please read the servers and write an Informational XEP
MattJ
What servers do with that info is their business. If you want to try to spec some optimizations, go for it :)
Ge0rG
I hate all these hand-wavy "implementation defined behavior" XEPs.
moparisthebest
there are, eh, semi-security considerations that exist with these implementations
moparisthebest
maybe not security, but I don't know how else to say it
moparisthebest
I think it'd be easy to regularly send silent stanzas to mucs and drain everyone's battery
Ge0rG
moparisthebest: you can do that without any XEPs.
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moparisthebest
but you can't document that in XEP-0352 because it doesn't say you should do anything at all
MattJ
What would you even document?
MattJ
There will always be stanzas that need to be forwarded
moparisthebest
probably advice for both servers and clients
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moparisthebest
stanzas with bodies will be displayed, not silent, no big deal
MattJ
and optimizations will only help, they're not the problem here
MattJ
Pretend 352 doesn't exist, and servers have no optimisations. The same silent stanzas will have the same behaviour...
moparisthebest
stanzas with https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0380.html with an unknown type might be simply dropped by clients, but forwarded by servers, that's a silent battery eater
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moparisthebest
so the advice would either be for servers to drop ones without valid formats, or for clients to always display something on such a thing
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Zash
If silently wasting battery is an attack, then let me tell you about xep 199
MattJ
:)
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moparisthebest
yes, that too, the advice for that would likely just be don't have mucs forward that, do they now ?
MattJ
You can't broadcast iqs, but MUCs would usually forward those sent to occupant JIDs
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Zash
... to the full JID
Zash
Unless it's one of the special iq stanzas that get redirected to the bare JID
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Zash
Unless it's not implemented like that and instead the server handles full JID iqs
Zash
Unless ...
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moparisthebest
so what we need is a bot that can join MUCs and do everything that can possibly eat all the member's batteries silently? :)
L29Ah
challenge accepted!
MattJ
Please include OOB URLs to infinite HTTP streams
moparisthebest
that's probably interesting outside of MUCs too, probably all sorts of silent stanzas you can send to a known JID constantly
moparisthebest
ooh nice MattJ
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moparisthebest
like an http server that responds to HEAD requests with an endless stream of random headers ?
Zash
That's actually perfectly legal.
Zash
Thanks HTTP!
Zash
IIRC the standards-mandated limits are ... per header...
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moparisthebest
the question is how does your average HTTP library handle it
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L29Ah
OOM on sight
moparisthebest
I'm going to assume most of them handle it by eating memory until they explode
command line curl handles it fine by buffering nothing I guess
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moparisthebest
and to test servers:
( echo -en 'GET / HTTP/1.1\r\nHost: www.moparisthebest.com\r\nUser-Agent: curl/7.76.0\r\nAccept: */*\r\n'; while true; do echo -en 'bla: bla\r\n'; done ) | nc -4 www.moparisthebest.com 80
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moparisthebest
nginx responds with 400 Bad Request "400 Request Header Or Cookie Too Large"
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Zash
pro-tip: `nc -C` if you have a version with that flag
Zash
to translate \n → \r\n
moparisthebest
I never know if a given machine has BSD or GNU nc :(
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Ge0rG
moparisthebest [20:49]:
> stanzas with https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0380.html with an unknown type might be simply dropped by clients, but forwarded by servers, that's a silent battery eater
I'd love to have a server side filter that would drop all elements not listed in a client's disco features
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Zash
Ge0rG: I tried something like that, tho it may have involved filtering stuff from presence. Vague memory of it causing breakage.
moparisthebest
I wonder how many stanzas clients receive in practice that they ignore, or at least end up invisible to the user
MattJ
Very many
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Zash
If you're in a bunch of public channels, oh so much presence
eta
I need to install that prosody CSI module that just drops presence on the floor
Zash
Violates protocol and expectations, not recommended
moparisthebest
what prompted all of this was a person complaining in a muc about how much battery his conversations used, I counted that I'm in 53 mucs and mine hardly uses any battery, but there are so many things it could be I don't even know where to start
Zash
Tho maybe that got fixed so the dropped stanzas don't count in 198
Zash
moparisthebest: and did they check that CSI is enabled?
moparisthebest
yes but they use ejabberd, which at a glance does entirely different things than prosody's mod_csi_simple
eta
I constantly suspect conversations uses more battery than it lets on
Zash
IIRC the most common wake up reason for me is client activity in the form of periodic pings, and their responses
moparisthebest
it seems like the battery % android gives is utterly dependent on your rom, vendor, version, the color of the sky, and everything else too; but that's a different can of worms
eta
the issue I have is I suspect conversations is waking up for every irrelevant MUC message
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Zash
I've got a thing for that, so I can mark MUCs as "unimportant" and then those won't trigger CSI flush
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Zash
I would like to have that tied into Something in the future, possibly some bookmarks2 mini-extension.
eta
Zash: I saw that module, but it requires manually marking them all as unimportant
eta
I want them to be like, default unimportant
eta
(and important if it's a modern XMPP "groupchat" instead of "channel")
Zash
eta, you and me both
eta
the latter part requires more trickery though
Zash
But I'm told this doesn't work for Normal Users
eta
I've also done the radicalish thing of using bookmarks2 everywhere
eta
with hacked up Dino and conversations
Zash
If there were a way to distinguish "groupchat" from "channel" based on only the stuff you see on join... but you don't afaik
eta
yeah exactly
eta
well, no, invite only is a good one
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eta
but I guess that's in data forms
Zash
which would require that the module do a disco, which is certainly possible, but complicates it a bit
eta
hence trickery
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Zash
but that may not be a perfect method either
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eta
how easy is querying bookmarks2
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Zash
I mean, basing it only on whether a particular MUC is "channel" or "groupchat", but it could certainly be used as a default.
Zash
Some property saved by clients in BM2 would be nicer.
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eta
Zash: I have a conversations commit that saves such a property :p
Zash
Neat
eta
mainly because I got tired of having to reconfigure notification prefs
eta
when it used to eat the database
eta
this required patching Dino to not instantly clobber the property when the bookmarks change
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Ge0rG
Why not using mentions of the nickname if there is a body, or EME otherwise
Ge0rG
Private rooms will all have OMENNO, right?
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emus
Ge0rG - no one apart from the Germans will understand your OMENNO 😉
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sebastian
> Private rooms will all have OMENNO, right?
Not sure if subtle joke or autocorrect 🤔
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Ge0rG
sebastian: yes
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emus
> sebastian escribió:
> Not sure if subtle joke or autocorrect 🤔
subtle German joke 🙂