XSF Discussion - 2021-05-20


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  234. qrpnxz

    alright, took me about 300 lines to make the domainpart parser. Not too bad lol

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  270. flow

    for just the parser, that sounds like to much LOC

  271. flow

    for something that prepares, validates and enforces the domainpart, it is way to less (assuming no external libraries)

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  279. qrpnxz

    definitely leaned on many libraries for it, and it's just the parser (which by definition validates btw), so the preperation part. I didn't do enforcement, because I actually don't know what the spec means by that. I think I just do that when I'm going to do comparison, or if I'm going to store or forwards the information.

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  285. qrpnxz

    definitely leaned on many libraries for it, and it's just the parser (which by definition validates btw) I didn't do enforcement, because I actually don't know what the spec means by that. I think I just do that when I'm going to do comparison, or if I'm going to store or forwards the information.

  286. qrpnxz

    definitely leaned on many libraries for it, and it's just the parser (which by definition validates btw). I didn't do enforcement, because I actually don't know what the spec means by that. I think I just do that when I'm going to do comparison, or if I'm going to store or forwards the information.

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  290. flow

    depends on your use case, servers to a lot of jid comparision and "is child of" checking. so it appears sensible to store the enforced variant of the JID representation

  291. Zash

    What /does/ enforcement mean?

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  293. flow

    IIRC lowercasing the localpart for example

  294. Zash

    So convert everything to the normalized form and reject invalid values?

  295. flow

    I'd assume rejecting happens in the validation step

  296. Zash

    We occationally have users who REALLY want their UserName case to be preserved. :)

  297. flow

    I'm sure you do

  298. flow

    hmm it appears in PRECIS, validatation and enforcement are in the same step "enforcement"

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  305. flow

    qrpnxz, I am sure you checked the RFC's errata for additional information regarding domainpart validation, right? :)

  306. qrpnxz

    i have not finished reading the spec even :) Thanks for heads up tho

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  308. qrpnxz

    enforcement seems to be about taking an almost valid jid and doing some transformations on it so that it's actually conformant

  309. qrpnxz

    enforcement seems to be about taking an almost valid jid (say from user input) and doing some transformations on it so that it's actually conformant

  310. qrpnxz

    yeah i'm pretty sure about this see RFC 5895

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  315. flow

    qrpnxz, what about ipv6 addresses in the domainpart? maybe there are code points that IDNA disallows that are valid in an IPv6 address?

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  317. qrpnxz

    IDNA is not relevant to IP addresses, only if you detect that it must be a domain name do you start worrying about that

  318. qrpnxz

    flow,

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  320. flow

    right, but you should not allow arbitrary strings if it is not a DNS name

  321. flow

    and, how do you detect that is must be a DNS name?

  322. qrpnxz

    if it starts with a number it has to be ipv4, if it starts with a '[' it better be ipv6, otherwise i start trying to parse a domain name

  323. flow

    DNS labels can start with digits, so that's not sound

  324. qrpnxz

    LDH cannot start with digits

  325. qrpnxz

    U-labels maaaaybe. And maybe when i find time to care i change the code to try domain name even when it starts with a digit. That would not be hard.

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  327. qrpnxz

    yeah no it can't lol

  328. qrpnxz

    it gets caught in the bidi rule

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  330. Zash

    > LDH cannot start with digits source?

  331. qrpnxz

    sure one sec

  332. qrpnxz

    https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc1034#section-3.5

  333. qrpnxz

    they also cannot start or end with hyphen

  334. Zash

    https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc5890 didn't say so, only the hypen bit

  335. Kev

    I thought that was relaxed in a later RFC.

  336. qrpnxz

    yeah 5890 defers to 1034 on a lot of details

  337. Kev

    (Starting with a number, not the hyphen)

  338. Kev

    But I don’t have this swapped in.

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  340. Kev

    1123 maybe? I don’t have time to read it to check.

  341. Kev

    Blah. I got sucked in

  342. Kev

    2.1 Host Names and Numbers The syntax of a legal Internet host name was specified in RFC-952 [DNS:4]. One aspect of host name syntax is hereby changed: the restriction on the first character is relaxed to allow either a letter or a digit. Host software MUST support this more liberal syntax.

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  344. qrpnxz

    hmm, nice find. Problem is that it breaks the bidi rule

  345. qrpnxz

    Kev, which are you quoting from

  346. Kev

    1123

  347. qrpnxz

    wait, but this is for host names, is that really the same as a domain name?

  348. Kev

    Down this path madness lies. Don’t say you haven’t been warned :D

  349. qrpnxz

    also, a host here can be an ip or a domain name, so ofc a host name should be able to start with a number, but this is not necessarily the case for a domain name

  350. qrpnxz

    yeah i'm certain this is what that's for

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  353. flow

    it's confusing, isn't it? rfc5890 even explicitly says that LDH label rules are modified by rfc1123

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  359. Kev

    > yeah i'm certain this is what that's for Honestly, if you’re still at the point of being certain about anything you’ve not spent long enough looking at name stuffs :D

  360. flow

    I tend to lean towards rfc1123 § 2.1 talking about "DNS labels" when "host name syntax"

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  362. flow

    the problem is, besides what Kev mentioned, terminology

  363. qrpnxz

    Kev, correction: I'm certain this is how i'm going to interpret it xD.

  364. flow

    "domain name", "host name", are not well defined terms

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  367. flow

    "DNS name", "DNS label" are

  368. Kev

    Actually, domain name and host name both *are* well defined, I think. The former in 1034 and the latter in 1123. It’s just that … yeah.

  369. qrpnxz

    even the JID standard just tells you about RFC5890 in an informational note. The actual requirement is that it be a FQDN, which the standard also admits as not well defined lol

  370. Kev

    It’s defined what format they have, but not what the *are* :)

  371. Kev

    It’s defined what format they have, but not what they *are* :)

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  373. flow

    Kev, not sure if this is the case for "domain name", rfc1034 even admits "The terms "domain" or "domain name" are used in many contexts beyond the DNS described here."

  374. Kev

    Fair.

  375. flow

    where "DNS name" is unambiguous

  376. Kev

    But frequently unhelpful!

  377. flow

    of course, you could argue that it is well defined to be not well defined

  378. qrpnxz

    xd

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  385. flow

    qrpnxz, would you mind elaborating on the bidi rule thingy you mentioned?

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  388. qrpnxz

    yeah so for full unicode labels there's all kinds of rules for what code points are allowed, and one of them has to do with the directionality of the text (left-to-right, right-to-left). A label is only valid if it passes this test. Link: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc5893#section-2

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  390. flow

    and having a digit at first position causes issues with the bidi rule because?

  391. flow

    (note that I may have misunderstood you)

  392. qrpnxz

    well it violates condition one, for starters

  393. flow

    right

  394. flow

    so you can't have a U-label starting with a digit

  395. flow

    but you can have a A-label

  396. flow

    so 1soccer.us would be fine as DNS name and as XMPP domainpart

  397. flow

    but 1fußball.de would not be fine as DNS name (but I believe it would be fine as XMPP domainpart)

  398. flow

    then again, a XMPP domainpart that does not may well to a DNS name is mostly useless

  399. flow

    then again, a XMPP domainpart that does not map well to a DNS name is mostly useless

  400. qrpnxz

    A-labels start with xn-- remember :)

  401. flow

    no

  402. qrpnxz

    yes

  403. flow

    no

  404. qrpnxz

    this is just fact sorry

  405. qrpnxz

    quote "This means, by definition, that every A-label will begin with the IDNA ACE prefix, "xn--""

  406. flow

    got me, was confusing A with LDH labels

  407. qrpnxz

    and LDH cannot start with number for sure

  408. flow

    and that's because?

  409. qrpnxz

    https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc1034#section-3.5

  410. qrpnxz

    because that's how it's defined

  411. flow

    but everything is an LDH label, so that relaxation from rfc1123 would apply there too

  412. flow

    but everything is a LDH label, so that relaxation from rfc1123 would apply there too

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  415. qrpnxz

    i'm really certain that that quote from 1123 is for host names, which it says were previously defined in rfc 952 (totally different document)

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  418. flow

    but why would rfc5890 then refer to rfc1123?

  419. flow

    also rfc1123 talks about DNS' "trailing dot"

  420. flow

    but yes, I can definelty see your point too

  421. flow

    but yes, I can definetly see your point too

  422. Kev

    https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc3696#section-2 add any light here? :)

  423. flow

    moar rfcs!!!!

  424. qrpnxz

    i refered to 1123 because you brought it up lol

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  426. qrpnxz

    but 5890 refers to 1034 on what a valid LDH label is

  427. flow

    Kev, I think it does, and I am pretty sure I've read all that ages ago

  428. flow

    the second paragaph only mentions the hypen rule, nothing about disallowing a digit in the first position

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  430. qrpnxz

    my god everything is mislinked but i found something one sec

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  432. qrpnxz

    "a segment of a host domain name is now allowed to begin with a digit and could legally be entirely numeric (see Section 6.1.2.4). However, a valid host name can never have the dotted-decimal form #.#.#.#, since at least the highest-level component label will be alphabetic" this is from 1123, twas hidden later on in the text. (Section 6.1.2.4 is totally completely unrelated btw) So the answer here seems to be then to only apply the bidi rule if there are any RTL characters. (I'll have to check if there was a correction of the rule.)

  433. qrpnxz

    "a segment of a host domain name is now allowed to begin with a digit and could legally be entirely numeric (see Section 6.1.2.4). However, a valid host name can never have the dotted-decimal form #.#.#.#, since at least the highest-level component label will be alphabetic" this is from 1123 section 2.1, twas hidden later on in the text. (Section 6.1.2.4 is totally completely unrelated btw) So the answer here seems to be then to only apply the bidi rule if there are any RTL characters. (I'll have to check if there was a correction of the rule.)

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  435. qrpnxz

    this i think is better evidence that it also applies to domain names in general

  436. Kev

    > Honestly, if you’re still at the point of being certain about anything you’ve not spent long enough looking at name stuffs :D I’ll just leave this here :)

  437. qrpnxz

    real world proof of number domain name https://37signals.com/

  438. qrpnxz

    will get back to you guys on the bidi thing

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  440. Kev

    Oh, I could have come up with exxamples if asked :)

  441. qrpnxz

    bruh lmao

  442. Kev

    123-reg is the most obvious one I think.

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  444. qrpnxz

    you bastard, anyway, i guess for bidi it's like i said, only applies if there's an RTL somewhere in the whole domain name

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  446. Kev

    I thought I started off by saying it was allowed ;)

  447. qrpnxz

    i mean idk why i didn't even try, clearly there's 4chan and 2ch

  448. qrpnxz

    hahaha

  449. flow

    qrpnxz, that bidi thing only applies to U-labels, no?

  450. flow

    so you could have a plain old LDH label with a digit at first position, but not a U-label

  451. qrpnxz

    domain names with RTL characters, it says

  452. qrpnxz

    a U-label could have it if no other part of the domain had an RTL char

  453. flow

    isn't that all something scoped within the context of IDNA / U-labels?

  454. qrpnxz

    necessarily the label with the RTL char would be a U-label if that's what you are talking about, but the bidi std says that the rule applies to all labels in a domain with any RTL chars

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  457. flow

    that's now what I remember, expect or have read, but then again, it's big area

  458. qrpnxz

    sorry, to be more accurate, that contains a char with bidi class of R, AL, or AN

  459. flow

    IIRC the bidi rules only applies to U-labels

  460. flow

    and I'd argue that todays DNS is not all U-labels (but could be wrong)

  461. qrpnxz

    it says "The following rule, consisting of six conditions, applies to labels in Bidi domain names." Which are domains with at least one RTL label. Which are labels that contains at least one char with bidi class R, AL, or AN

  462. flow

    it being?

  463. flow

    anyhow, isn't foobar in foobar.com an example of a non RTL label?

  464. flow

    (hmm what is bidi class AL…)

  465. qrpnxz

    AL is arabic letters, AN is arabic numbers

  466. qrpnxz

    R is most letters is non-arabic RTL scripts

  467. qrpnxz

    foobar.com is not a bidi domain name

  468. flow

    that's what I am saying

  469. qrpnxz

    neither foobar nor com are RTL labels

  470. flow

    so the bidi rule does not apply here

  471. qrpnxz

    correct

  472. flow

    which means I can have 9foobar.com

  473. qrpnxz

    correct

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  478. flow

    ahh, now I understand what you said: not only does the bidi rule not apply if it isn't a U-label, but I can have a U-label without codepoints that would require the bidi rule

  479. qrpnxz

    yes :)

  480. qrpnxz

    9fóobar.com is also fair game

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  482. flow

    <qrpnxz>  it gets caught in the bidi rule made me believe that you thought that the bidi rule would disallow a digit in the first place in very U-label

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  484. qrpnxz

    like i said, it applies if it's a bidi domain, which means it has at least one RTL label, which has at least one type R AL or AN char

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  486. qrpnxz

    which 9fóobar.com does not have

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  496. flow

    <qrpnxz>  it gets caught in the bidi rule made me believe that you thought that the bidi rule would disallow a digit in the first place in every U-label

  497. qrpnxz

    turns out no

  498. eevvoor

    https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/XMPP_Standards_Foundation

  499. eevvoor

    Amazing, such a long russian wikipedia article about the xsf.

  500. eevvoor

    😲️

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  502. Ge0rG

    Jabber is big in Russia

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  506. edhelas

    That's why we have millions of $ of funding from the Kremlin to add security issues in the protocol

  507. eevvoor

    🤦‍♂️️

  508. croax

    Unlucky they sent it to the wrong BTC address.

  509. menel has left

  510. eevvoor

    Perhaps we should change policy to accept rubels also.

  511. adiaholic has joined

  512. dwd

    It's a little out of date. It says Кевин Смит is still on Council.

  513. eevvoor

    It is amazing that they care about the names.

  514. eevvoor

    Who the hell finds it interesting to have a membership list on wikipedia?

  515. Kev

    dwd: And I always will be in spirit :)

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  528. rion

    Kremlin didn't come to me yet =) but FSB (ФСБ/FSS) did.

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  531. Ge0rG

    The German Federal Cartel Office is doing an investigation of chat services, and they would like to inquire the operators of "Jabber", in German, via snail mail. Can Board empower somebody to respond on behalf of the XSF? I'd volunteer, unless Daniel wants to step in.

  532. Ge0rG

    https://www.bundeskartellamt.de/SharedDocs/Meldung/DE/Pressemitteilungen/2020/12_11_2020_SU_Messenger_Dienste.html

  533. flow

    Is board the right entity given that board does not represent a chat service?

  534. flow

    That said, the XSF should try to be present in this discussion

  535. flow

    but clarify that there is a difference between "chat service" and "chat protocol". Maybe on the example of email

  536. flow

    "distributed open-standard chat procol" that is

  537. Ge0rG

    flow: I'd take care of that

  538. flow

    I'd expect nothing less :)

  539. flow

    so some XSF representative *and* another represenstative from a XMPP-based "chat service" would be ideal

  540. flow

    hence why not appoint Ge0rG, and send daniel?

  541. stp has joined

  542. flow

    (given that he wants to)

  543. jonas’

    what do you mean by that?

  544. eevvoor

    why not write it and share it here?

  545. eevvoor

    before "submission"

  546. karoshi has joined

  547. flow

    eevvoor, I don't think anyone would mind that. but first board has to decide/delegate

  548. Daniel

    flow: a few people in the xmpp verse have been requested to participate on their own behalf

  549. Daniel

    Meaning there is probably already some diversity in it

  550. flow

    Daniel, ahh, ok, that sound good then

  551. flow

    Daniel, ahh, ok, that sounds good then

  552. Ge0rG

    I know of inquiries to Jitsi and BBB

  553. adiaholic has left

  554. eevvoor

    weird

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  561. Daniel

    I wouldn't make too much of a big deal out of it. Just have Ge0rG do it if he wants to

  562. qrpnxz

    argh i accidentally cleared this chat as i was reading the juicy part

  563. jonas’

    qrpnxz, https://logs.xmpp.org/xsf/2021-05-20

  564. qrpnxz

    wow life saver

  565. dwd

    We've a Board meeting this evening, so we can rubber-stamp Georg if that works?

  566. qrpnxz

    > and another represenstative from a XMPP-based "chat service" would be ideal how about a random self-hoster xDDDDD

  567. Ge0rG

    dwd: that would be great, but please be gentle with the rubber-stamp

  568. jonas’

    yeah, a silicone stamp is more body-friendly

  569. qrpnxz

    do you know why the "German Federal Cartel Office" is doing a chat service investigation?

  570. Ge0rG

    does the ink contain lead?

  571. qrpnxz

    Investigation of what?

  572. dwd

    Branding? Tatooing?

  573. Ge0rG

    qrpnxz: I've linked their press release above, maybe some google translate might help

  574. dwd

    Ge0rG, Is tha "Cartel Office" the equivalent of the Monopolies and Mergers authority?

  575. qrpnxz

    Ge0rG, actually there's an en version https://www.bundeskartellamt.de/SharedDocs/Meldung/EN/Pressemitteilungen/2020/12_11_2020_SU_Messenger_Services.html;jsessionid=29F37418ED730DE76B91478F56EDD02E.2_cid387?nn=3591568

  576. qrpnxz

    Ge0rG, actually there's an en version https://www.bundeskartellamt.de/SharedDocs/Meldung/EN/Pressemitteilungen/2020/12_11_2020_SU_Messenger_Services.html

  577. Ge0rG

    qrpnxz: it's probably rooted in the monopolies of Facebook and such, and they want to see how to ensure interop. This has been going on for a year or two now

  578. Ge0rG

    qrpnxz: cool

  579. qrpnxz

    looks like they are investigating user data protections

  580. qrpnxz

    > Furthermore, in most cases it is not possible for users to communicate with each other by using different messenger services. GO XMPP

  581. Ge0rG

    dwd: I can't possibly answer that without knowing what the latter is about, and it looks like the M&M was replaced at least twice since.

  582. jonas’

    the name *does* sound like it could match the kartellamt tho

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  586. qrpnxz

    btw, wikipedia: " Federal Cartel Office (German: Bundeskartellamt) is Germany's national competition regulator." So "Monopolies Authority" sounds about right.

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  592. moparisthebest

    Mexico's Federal Cartel Office is quite different

  593. qrpnxz

    i think it's https://www.cofece.mx

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  612. edhelas

    covfefe

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  656. arc

    It is about that time again

  657. peetah has left

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  659. MattJ

    That comes quick

  660. arc

    Yeah weekly meetings do that

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  666. ralphm bangs gavel

  667. ralphm

    0. Welcome

  668. ralphm

    Hi!

  669. ralphm

    Who do we have today?

  670. dwd waves

  671. adiaholic has left

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  673. MattJ

    o/

  674. ralphm

    Any point for our agenda?

  675. arc

    Here

  676. dwd

    Yes, the Ge0rG / German Cartel thing mentioned earlier today.

  677. Ge0rG

    dwd wanted to rubber-stamp me.

  678. arc has left

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  681. ralphm

    Missed that, but ok.

  682. ralphm

    1. Minute taker

  683. arc

    I took meeting minutes last 2 weeks

  684. ralphm

    Yes. I think that's dwd now

  685. dwd

    OK

  686. ralphm

    2. "rubber-stamping Ge0rG"

  687. dwd

    Ge0rG, Want to explain?

  688. Ge0rG

    Sure!

  689. Ge0rG

    The Federal Cartel Office of Germany (Bundeskartellamt) is inquiring different IM providers about interoperability and similar topics.

  690. Kev has left

  691. Kev has joined

  692. Ge0rG

    They have also approached the person behind freie-messenger.de about a contact for "Jabber" in the context of chat and video calls.

  693. elliot020 has joined

  694. Ge0rG

    I suppose that they mean XMPP and not the Cisco product, and I think somebody from the XSF should step in to participate in their questionnaire.

  695. Ge0rG

    I would step up to do so on behalf of the XSF

  696. Ge0rG

    They require an address in Germany and some hopefully small time effort.

  697. dwd

    So, I think this is a fine idea, and if Ge0rG is happy to do it that's great. I think Board should be sanctioning "speaking on behalf of the XSF", but in this case I feel it's a formality.

  698. Ge0rG

    So I would like to get rubber-stamped by the XSF Board as the Official Ambassador Of XMPP For The German Government.

  699. Kev has left

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  701. ralphm

    heh

  702. MattJ

    Sounds good to me

  703. ralphm

    I think we've previously used the word liason, but in general I'd be happy to have Ge0rG be the in-between.

  704. adiaholic has left

  705. dwd

    I think it should be "The XMPP Ambassador to the Federal German Republic", technically, but whatever.

  706. papatutuwawa has joined

  707. dwd

    (For the avoidance of doubt, I am joking).

  708. ralphm

    Or rather "The XSF Ambassador...", as I've read people be sensitive about this even yesterday.

  709. Ge0rG

    dwd: I was just going to ask for a diplomatic passport.

  710. ralphm

    I take dwd's thinking as a motion.

  711. ralphm

    +1

  712. dwd

    +1

  713. ralphm dreads how this ends up in the minutes.

  714. MattJ

    h+1

  715. ralphm

    arc?

  716. Ge0rG

    dwd: technically it would be the "Federal Republic of Germany".

  717. mathijs has left

  718. arc

    +1

  719. Ge0rG

    Thank you very much, I'm honored to represent the XSF in #Neuland.

  720. arc

    Ok so who's making him the officially xmpp loferl socken?

  721. ralphm

    Motion carries. Congrats!

  722. floretta has left

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  725. Ge0rG

    For the minutes, you can link the slowly loading page at https://www.bundeskartellamt.de/SharedDocs/Meldung/EN/Pressemitteilungen/2020/12_11_2020_SU_Messenger_Services.html

  726. mukt2 has left

  727. ralphm

    arc: I believe you just volunteered

  728. arc

    Yay!

  729. ralphm

    3. Open Collective

  730. ralphm

    From what I've seen Peter was dedicating an hour on this earlier this month. I haven't seen an update, yet.

  731. ralphm

    Sam pinged earlier today.

  732. ralphm

    4. AOB

  733. ralphm

    ?

  734. arc

    Not this week

  735. ralphm

    arc: but you have one for next week?

  736. ralphm

    I'll wait in anticipation.

  737. arc

    Maybe. We'll have to see

  738. ralphm

    5. Data of Next

  739. ralphm

    +1W

  740. ralphm

    6. Close

  741. ralphm

    Thanks all!

  742. ralphm bangs gavel

  743. arc

    Ge0rG: medium shoe and calf size? 😏

  744. ralphm

    Is that the new ASL?

  745. arc

    For the Loferl Socken!

  746. adiaholic has joined

  747. MattJ

    Thanks all

  748. ralphm

    arc: sure

  749. Ge0rG

    As long as I'm not supposed to wear a Dirndl.

  750. dwd

    Just a hoodie.

  751. ralphm

    _just_ a hoodie?

  752. arc

    No it would be great to get you in a photo wearing xmpp socks and the leather pants

  753. dwd

    arc, Now you remind me I need to work on that CoC...

  754. arc

    But seriously just yesterday I was talking to a friend about loferl socken to be worn under rugby socks because they look super warm, and as long as they are less than 5mm thick they would not violate any rules.

  755. mukt2 has joined

  756. arc

    I have known a few people that have worn foam shin pads under their socks. But yeah anyways I was downloading knit patterns to make them

  757. dwd

    Minutes send.

  758. dwd

    Minutes sent.

  759. Andrzej has joined

  760. ralphm

    Isn't the warmth simply because their 100% wool and roughly knit?

  761. ralphm

    Isn't the warmth simply because they're 100% wool and roughly knit?

  762. arc

    And they are literally anything around the calves. Rugby socks are typically knee-high but also typically thin so they are not all that warm

  763. marek has left

  764. arc

    I have played in the snow. So I can testify that they are not that warm. As can all of the bonfires with players huddled around them

  765. marek has joined

  766. dwd

    I seem to recall that was just considered character building.

  767. adiaholic has left

  768. ralphm

    So basically you need some kind of Merino over-the-calf socks

  769. arc

    In my experience is not very. When we were playing in Manchester England it was pissing rain at around 2c out, and windy, and I had a miserable weekend

  770. dwd

    Or, you know, just not play rugby when it's cold.

  771. arc

    ralphm: that's what Loferl Socken is

  772. ralphm

    arc: note that Merino

  773. arc

    That's a brand, isn't it?

  774. dwd

    Also, Manchester, 2°C and heavy rain - so July or August? The rest of the year it's windy, too...

  775. Ge0rG

    arc: let me know when you have my XMPP branded Loferl ready, and I will arrange for a photo in leather pants.

  776. ralphm

    It is a breed of sheep with certain wool quality, and you now often see it used as a type-of-wool. Often thin but warm.

  777. ralphm

    Might make it easier to search

  778. ralphm

    dwd: if people wouldn't play rugby when it's cold, how did it ever take off in England?

  779. emus has joined

  780. dwd

    ralphm, I spent much of my childhood asking the same question.

  781. mathieui

    dwd, those are fast minutes!

  782. ralphm

    haha

  783. dwd

    ralphm, Usually while being forced into playing Rugby.

  784. Kev

    <Arc> the XSF is too European. <also Arc> I demand our liason wears loferl socken.

  785. Kev

    :D

  786. ralphm

    *boom*

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  900. Ge0rG

    Is xmpp.org especially slow tonight?

  901. moparisthebest

    seems fine to me

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  906. moparisthebest

    https://xmpp.org/software/libraries.html has "project name: txmpp, languages: linux" ? it's neither a library nor is it written in a programming language named linux...

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  912. mathieui

    moparisthebest, we went through this already, I think someone needs to put the work in adding a new page for "tools" or whatever

  913. mathieui

    (which txmpp is)

  914. moparisthebest

    it looks like a sendxmpp that relies on libstrophe from the link

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  917. moparisthebest

    looks like it's already on this "tools" page https://wiki.xmpp.org/web/User:MDosch/Sendxmpp_incarnations

  918. lorddavidiii has left

  919. jubalh

    this one seems more like the library: https://github.com/rpavlik/txmpp

  920. moparisthebest

    interesting, seems abandoned though

  921. Ge0rG

    The language would be "Unix shell"

  922. moparisthebest

    the one on libraries.html is actually written in C

  923. moparisthebest

    "Linux" makes no sense regardless

  924. chronosx88 has left

  925. moparisthebest

    what in the world https://github.com/rpavlik/txmpp/blob/master/src/Equifax_Secure_Global_eBusiness_CA-1.h

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  934. roro

    Applogies for the random message. I was told that I should ask this here to get a precise answer. I am looking for fundamental differences between XMPP and MATRIX. I'm sure quite a bit has been written already. If you have an exhaustive link to point me, that would be great.

  935. roro

    If you just have some bullets for me...I'll take it 🙂

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  940. moparisthebest

    there are a lot of major differences, I can list a couple: 1. XMPP is an established standard with RFCs that has passed the test of time, Matrix is a... VC funded project? 2. XMPP is a message passing protocol, Matrix is some... eventually consistent graph thing? This is why matrix servers take insane amounts of resources

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  946. Zash

    eventually consistent globally replicated JSON graph database

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  948. roro

    > eventually consistent globally replicated JSON graph database Don't know if it's just me, sounds complicated.

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  951. moparisthebest

    roro, also XMPP is XML over TLS, Matrix is JSON over HTTPS, that's more on the level of implementation detail that doesn't matter though

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  975. emus

    dwd, ralphm arc I also offered Ge0rG help if I can do something. And I also followed the process so far. And some other members here too.

  976. emus

    > jubalh escribió: > this one seems more like the library: https://github.com/rpavlik/txmpp We allocated this to Libaries/Tools on the website I thinl

  977. emus

    https://xmpp.org/software/libraries.html

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