XSF Discussion - 2021-05-20

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  234. qrpnxz alright, took me about 300 lines to make the domainpart parser. Not too bad lol
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  270. flow for just the parser, that sounds like to much LOC
  271. flow for something that prepares, validates and enforces the domainpart, it is way to less (assuming no external libraries)
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  279. qrpnxz definitely leaned on many libraries for it, and it's just the parser (which by definition validates btw), so the preperation part. I didn't do enforcement, because I actually don't know what the spec means by that. I think I just do that when I'm going to do comparison, or if I'm going to store or forwards the information.
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  285. qrpnxz definitely leaned on many libraries for it, and it's just the parser (which by definition validates btw) I didn't do enforcement, because I actually don't know what the spec means by that. I think I just do that when I'm going to do comparison, or if I'm going to store or forwards the information.
  286. qrpnxz definitely leaned on many libraries for it, and it's just the parser (which by definition validates btw). I didn't do enforcement, because I actually don't know what the spec means by that. I think I just do that when I'm going to do comparison, or if I'm going to store or forwards the information.
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  290. flow depends on your use case, servers to a lot of jid comparision and "is child of" checking. so it appears sensible to store the enforced variant of the JID representation
  291. Zash What /does/ enforcement mean?
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  293. flow IIRC lowercasing the localpart for example
  294. Zash So convert everything to the normalized form and reject invalid values?
  295. flow I'd assume rejecting happens in the validation step
  296. Zash We occationally have users who REALLY want their UserName case to be preserved. :)
  297. flow I'm sure you do
  298. flow hmm it appears in PRECIS, validatation and enforcement are in the same step "enforcement"
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  305. flow qrpnxz, I am sure you checked the RFC's errata for additional information regarding domainpart validation, right? :)
  306. qrpnxz i have not finished reading the spec even :) Thanks for heads up tho
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  308. qrpnxz enforcement seems to be about taking an almost valid jid and doing some transformations on it so that it's actually conformant
  309. qrpnxz enforcement seems to be about taking an almost valid jid (say from user input) and doing some transformations on it so that it's actually conformant
  310. qrpnxz yeah i'm pretty sure about this see RFC 5895
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  315. flow qrpnxz, what about ipv6 addresses in the domainpart? maybe there are code points that IDNA disallows that are valid in an IPv6 address?
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  317. qrpnxz IDNA is not relevant to IP addresses, only if you detect that it must be a domain name do you start worrying about that
  318. qrpnxz flow,
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  320. flow right, but you should not allow arbitrary strings if it is not a DNS name
  321. flow and, how do you detect that is must be a DNS name?
  322. qrpnxz if it starts with a number it has to be ipv4, if it starts with a '[' it better be ipv6, otherwise i start trying to parse a domain name
  323. flow DNS labels can start with digits, so that's not sound
  324. qrpnxz LDH cannot start with digits
  325. qrpnxz U-labels maaaaybe. And maybe when i find time to care i change the code to try domain name even when it starts with a digit. That would not be hard.
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  327. qrpnxz yeah no it can't lol
  328. qrpnxz it gets caught in the bidi rule
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  330. Zash > LDH cannot start with digits source?
  331. qrpnxz sure one sec
  332. qrpnxz https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc1034#section-3.5
  333. qrpnxz they also cannot start or end with hyphen
  334. Zash https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc5890 didn't say so, only the hypen bit
  335. Kev I thought that was relaxed in a later RFC.
  336. qrpnxz yeah 5890 defers to 1034 on a lot of details
  337. Kev (Starting with a number, not the hyphen)
  338. Kev But I don’t have this swapped in.
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  340. Kev 1123 maybe? I don’t have time to read it to check.
  341. Kev Blah. I got sucked in
  342. Kev 2.1 Host Names and Numbers The syntax of a legal Internet host name was specified in RFC-952 [DNS:4]. One aspect of host name syntax is hereby changed: the restriction on the first character is relaxed to allow either a letter or a digit. Host software MUST support this more liberal syntax.
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  344. qrpnxz hmm, nice find. Problem is that it breaks the bidi rule
  345. qrpnxz Kev, which are you quoting from
  346. Kev 1123
  347. qrpnxz wait, but this is for host names, is that really the same as a domain name?
  348. Kev Down this path madness lies. Don’t say you haven’t been warned :D
  349. qrpnxz also, a host here can be an ip or a domain name, so ofc a host name should be able to start with a number, but this is not necessarily the case for a domain name
  350. qrpnxz yeah i'm certain this is what that's for
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  353. flow it's confusing, isn't it? rfc5890 even explicitly says that LDH label rules are modified by rfc1123
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  359. Kev > yeah i'm certain this is what that's for Honestly, if you’re still at the point of being certain about anything you’ve not spent long enough looking at name stuffs :D
  360. flow I tend to lean towards rfc1123 § 2.1 talking about "DNS labels" when "host name syntax"
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  362. flow the problem is, besides what Kev mentioned, terminology
  363. qrpnxz Kev, correction: I'm certain this is how i'm going to interpret it xD.
  364. flow "domain name", "host name", are not well defined terms
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  367. flow "DNS name", "DNS label" are
  368. Kev Actually, domain name and host name both *are* well defined, I think. The former in 1034 and the latter in 1123. It’s just that … yeah.
  369. qrpnxz even the JID standard just tells you about RFC5890 in an informational note. The actual requirement is that it be a FQDN, which the standard also admits as not well defined lol
  370. Kev It’s defined what format they have, but not what the *are* :)
  371. Kev It’s defined what format they have, but not what they *are* :)
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  373. flow Kev, not sure if this is the case for "domain name", rfc1034 even admits "The terms "domain" or "domain name" are used in many contexts beyond the DNS described here."
  374. Kev Fair.
  375. flow where "DNS name" is unambiguous
  376. Kev But frequently unhelpful!
  377. flow of course, you could argue that it is well defined to be not well defined
  378. qrpnxz xd
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  385. flow qrpnxz, would you mind elaborating on the bidi rule thingy you mentioned?
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  388. qrpnxz yeah so for full unicode labels there's all kinds of rules for what code points are allowed, and one of them has to do with the directionality of the text (left-to-right, right-to-left). A label is only valid if it passes this test. Link: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc5893#section-2
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  390. flow and having a digit at first position causes issues with the bidi rule because?
  391. flow (note that I may have misunderstood you)
  392. qrpnxz well it violates condition one, for starters
  393. flow right
  394. flow so you can't have a U-label starting with a digit
  395. flow but you can have a A-label
  396. flow so 1soccer.us would be fine as DNS name and as XMPP domainpart
  397. flow but 1fußball.de would not be fine as DNS name (but I believe it would be fine as XMPP domainpart)
  398. flow then again, a XMPP domainpart that does not may well to a DNS name is mostly useless
  399. flow then again, a XMPP domainpart that does not map well to a DNS name is mostly useless
  400. qrpnxz A-labels start with xn-- remember :)
  401. flow no
  402. qrpnxz yes
  403. flow no
  404. qrpnxz this is just fact sorry
  405. qrpnxz quote "This means, by definition, that every A-label will begin with the IDNA ACE prefix, "xn--""
  406. flow got me, was confusing A with LDH labels
  407. qrpnxz and LDH cannot start with number for sure
  408. flow and that's because?
  409. qrpnxz https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc1034#section-3.5
  410. qrpnxz because that's how it's defined
  411. flow but everything is an LDH label, so that relaxation from rfc1123 would apply there too
  412. flow but everything is a LDH label, so that relaxation from rfc1123 would apply there too
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  415. qrpnxz i'm really certain that that quote from 1123 is for host names, which it says were previously defined in rfc 952 (totally different document)
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  418. flow but why would rfc5890 then refer to rfc1123?
  419. flow also rfc1123 talks about DNS' "trailing dot"
  420. flow but yes, I can definelty see your point too
  421. flow but yes, I can definetly see your point too
  422. Kev https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc3696#section-2 add any light here? :)
  423. flow moar rfcs!!!!
  424. qrpnxz i refered to 1123 because you brought it up lol
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  426. qrpnxz but 5890 refers to 1034 on what a valid LDH label is
  427. flow Kev, I think it does, and I am pretty sure I've read all that ages ago
  428. flow the second paragaph only mentions the hypen rule, nothing about disallowing a digit in the first position
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  430. qrpnxz my god everything is mislinked but i found something one sec
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  432. qrpnxz "a segment of a host domain name is now allowed to begin with a digit and could legally be entirely numeric (see Section However, a valid host name can never have the dotted-decimal form #.#.#.#, since at least the highest-level component label will be alphabetic" this is from 1123, twas hidden later on in the text. (Section is totally completely unrelated btw) So the answer here seems to be then to only apply the bidi rule if there are any RTL characters. (I'll have to check if there was a correction of the rule.)
  433. qrpnxz "a segment of a host domain name is now allowed to begin with a digit and could legally be entirely numeric (see Section However, a valid host name can never have the dotted-decimal form #.#.#.#, since at least the highest-level component label will be alphabetic" this is from 1123 section 2.1, twas hidden later on in the text. (Section is totally completely unrelated btw) So the answer here seems to be then to only apply the bidi rule if there are any RTL characters. (I'll have to check if there was a correction of the rule.)
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  435. qrpnxz this i think is better evidence that it also applies to domain names in general
  436. Kev > Honestly, if you’re still at the point of being certain about anything you’ve not spent long enough looking at name stuffs :D I’ll just leave this here :)
  437. qrpnxz real world proof of number domain name https://37signals.com/
  438. qrpnxz will get back to you guys on the bidi thing
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  440. Kev Oh, I could have come up with exxamples if asked :)
  441. qrpnxz bruh lmao
  442. Kev 123-reg is the most obvious one I think.
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  444. qrpnxz you bastard, anyway, i guess for bidi it's like i said, only applies if there's an RTL somewhere in the whole domain name
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  446. Kev I thought I started off by saying it was allowed ;)
  447. qrpnxz i mean idk why i didn't even try, clearly there's 4chan and 2ch
  448. qrpnxz hahaha
  449. flow qrpnxz, that bidi thing only applies to U-labels, no?
  450. flow so you could have a plain old LDH label with a digit at first position, but not a U-label
  451. qrpnxz domain names with RTL characters, it says
  452. qrpnxz a U-label could have it if no other part of the domain had an RTL char
  453. flow isn't that all something scoped within the context of IDNA / U-labels?
  454. qrpnxz necessarily the label with the RTL char would be a U-label if that's what you are talking about, but the bidi std says that the rule applies to all labels in a domain with any RTL chars
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  457. flow that's now what I remember, expect or have read, but then again, it's big area
  458. qrpnxz sorry, to be more accurate, that contains a char with bidi class of R, AL, or AN
  459. flow IIRC the bidi rules only applies to U-labels
  460. flow and I'd argue that todays DNS is not all U-labels (but could be wrong)
  461. qrpnxz it says "The following rule, consisting of six conditions, applies to labels in Bidi domain names." Which are domains with at least one RTL label. Which are labels that contains at least one char with bidi class R, AL, or AN
  462. flow it being?
  463. flow anyhow, isn't foobar in foobar.com an example of a non RTL label?
  464. flow (hmm what is bidi class AL…)
  465. qrpnxz AL is arabic letters, AN is arabic numbers
  466. qrpnxz R is most letters is non-arabic RTL scripts
  467. qrpnxz foobar.com is not a bidi domain name
  468. flow that's what I am saying
  469. qrpnxz neither foobar nor com are RTL labels
  470. flow so the bidi rule does not apply here
  471. qrpnxz correct
  472. flow which means I can have 9foobar.com
  473. qrpnxz correct
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  478. flow ahh, now I understand what you said: not only does the bidi rule not apply if it isn't a U-label, but I can have a U-label without codepoints that would require the bidi rule
  479. qrpnxz yes :)
  480. qrpnxz 9fóobar.com is also fair game
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  482. flow <qrpnxz>  it gets caught in the bidi rule made me believe that you thought that the bidi rule would disallow a digit in the first place in very U-label
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  484. qrpnxz like i said, it applies if it's a bidi domain, which means it has at least one RTL label, which has at least one type R AL or AN char
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  486. qrpnxz which 9fóobar.com does not have
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  496. flow <qrpnxz>  it gets caught in the bidi rule made me believe that you thought that the bidi rule would disallow a digit in the first place in every U-label
  497. qrpnxz turns out no
  498. eevvoor https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/XMPP_Standards_Foundation
  499. eevvoor Amazing, such a long russian wikipedia article about the xsf.
  500. eevvoor 😲️
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  502. Ge0rG Jabber is big in Russia
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  506. edhelas That's why we have millions of $ of funding from the Kremlin to add security issues in the protocol
  507. eevvoor 🤦‍♂️️
  508. croax Unlucky they sent it to the wrong BTC address.
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  510. eevvoor Perhaps we should change policy to accept rubels also.
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  512. dwd It's a little out of date. It says Кевин Смит is still on Council.
  513. eevvoor It is amazing that they care about the names.
  514. eevvoor Who the hell finds it interesting to have a membership list on wikipedia?
  515. Kev dwd: And I always will be in spirit :)
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  528. rion Kremlin didn't come to me yet =) but FSB (ФСБ/FSS) did.
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  531. Ge0rG The German Federal Cartel Office is doing an investigation of chat services, and they would like to inquire the operators of "Jabber", in German, via snail mail. Can Board empower somebody to respond on behalf of the XSF? I'd volunteer, unless Daniel wants to step in.
  532. Ge0rG https://www.bundeskartellamt.de/SharedDocs/Meldung/DE/Pressemitteilungen/2020/12_11_2020_SU_Messenger_Dienste.html
  533. flow Is board the right entity given that board does not represent a chat service?
  534. flow That said, the XSF should try to be present in this discussion
  535. flow but clarify that there is a difference between "chat service" and "chat protocol". Maybe on the example of email
  536. flow "distributed open-standard chat procol" that is
  537. Ge0rG flow: I'd take care of that
  538. flow I'd expect nothing less :)
  539. flow so some XSF representative *and* another represenstative from a XMPP-based "chat service" would be ideal
  540. flow hence why not appoint Ge0rG, and send daniel?
  541. stp has joined
  542. flow (given that he wants to)
  543. jonas’ what do you mean by that?
  544. eevvoor why not write it and share it here?
  545. eevvoor before "submission"
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  547. flow eevvoor, I don't think anyone would mind that. but first board has to decide/delegate
  548. Daniel flow: a few people in the xmpp verse have been requested to participate on their own behalf
  549. Daniel Meaning there is probably already some diversity in it
  550. flow Daniel, ahh, ok, that sound good then
  551. flow Daniel, ahh, ok, that sounds good then
  552. Ge0rG I know of inquiries to Jitsi and BBB
  553. adiaholic has left
  554. eevvoor weird
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  561. Daniel I wouldn't make too much of a big deal out of it. Just have Ge0rG do it if he wants to
  562. qrpnxz argh i accidentally cleared this chat as i was reading the juicy part
  563. jonas’ qrpnxz, https://logs.xmpp.org/xsf/2021-05-20
  564. qrpnxz wow life saver
  565. dwd We've a Board meeting this evening, so we can rubber-stamp Georg if that works?
  566. qrpnxz > and another represenstative from a XMPP-based "chat service" would be ideal how about a random self-hoster xDDDDD
  567. Ge0rG dwd: that would be great, but please be gentle with the rubber-stamp
  568. jonas’ yeah, a silicone stamp is more body-friendly
  569. qrpnxz do you know why the "German Federal Cartel Office" is doing a chat service investigation?
  570. Ge0rG does the ink contain lead?
  571. qrpnxz Investigation of what?
  572. dwd Branding? Tatooing?
  573. Ge0rG qrpnxz: I've linked their press release above, maybe some google translate might help
  574. dwd Ge0rG, Is tha "Cartel Office" the equivalent of the Monopolies and Mergers authority?
  575. qrpnxz Ge0rG, actually there's an en version https://www.bundeskartellamt.de/SharedDocs/Meldung/EN/Pressemitteilungen/2020/12_11_2020_SU_Messenger_Services.html;jsessionid=29F37418ED730DE76B91478F56EDD02E.2_cid387?nn=3591568
  576. qrpnxz Ge0rG, actually there's an en version https://www.bundeskartellamt.de/SharedDocs/Meldung/EN/Pressemitteilungen/2020/12_11_2020_SU_Messenger_Services.html
  577. Ge0rG qrpnxz: it's probably rooted in the monopolies of Facebook and such, and they want to see how to ensure interop. This has been going on for a year or two now
  578. Ge0rG qrpnxz: cool
  579. qrpnxz looks like they are investigating user data protections
  580. qrpnxz > Furthermore, in most cases it is not possible for users to communicate with each other by using different messenger services. GO XMPP
  581. Ge0rG dwd: I can't possibly answer that without knowing what the latter is about, and it looks like the M&M was replaced at least twice since.
  582. jonas’ the name *does* sound like it could match the kartellamt tho
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  586. qrpnxz btw, wikipedia: " Federal Cartel Office (German: Bundeskartellamt) is Germany's national competition regulator." So "Monopolies Authority" sounds about right.
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  592. moparisthebest Mexico's Federal Cartel Office is quite different
  593. qrpnxz i think it's https://www.cofece.mx
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  612. edhelas covfefe
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  656. arc It is about that time again
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  659. MattJ That comes quick
  660. arc Yeah weekly meetings do that
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  666. ralphm bangs gavel
  667. ralphm 0. Welcome
  668. ralphm Hi!
  669. ralphm Who do we have today?
  670. dwd waves
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  673. MattJ o/
  674. ralphm Any point for our agenda?
  675. arc Here
  676. dwd Yes, the Ge0rG / German Cartel thing mentioned earlier today.
  677. Ge0rG dwd wanted to rubber-stamp me.
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  681. ralphm Missed that, but ok.
  682. ralphm 1. Minute taker
  683. arc I took meeting minutes last 2 weeks
  684. ralphm Yes. I think that's dwd now
  685. dwd OK
  686. ralphm 2. "rubber-stamping Ge0rG"
  687. dwd Ge0rG, Want to explain?
  688. Ge0rG Sure!
  689. Ge0rG The Federal Cartel Office of Germany (Bundeskartellamt) is inquiring different IM providers about interoperability and similar topics.
  690. Kev has left
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  692. Ge0rG They have also approached the person behind freie-messenger.de about a contact for "Jabber" in the context of chat and video calls.
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  694. Ge0rG I suppose that they mean XMPP and not the Cisco product, and I think somebody from the XSF should step in to participate in their questionnaire.
  695. Ge0rG I would step up to do so on behalf of the XSF
  696. Ge0rG They require an address in Germany and some hopefully small time effort.
  697. dwd So, I think this is a fine idea, and if Ge0rG is happy to do it that's great. I think Board should be sanctioning "speaking on behalf of the XSF", but in this case I feel it's a formality.
  698. Ge0rG So I would like to get rubber-stamped by the XSF Board as the Official Ambassador Of XMPP For The German Government.
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  701. ralphm heh
  702. MattJ Sounds good to me
  703. ralphm I think we've previously used the word liason, but in general I'd be happy to have Ge0rG be the in-between.
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  705. dwd I think it should be "The XMPP Ambassador to the Federal German Republic", technically, but whatever.
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  707. dwd (For the avoidance of doubt, I am joking).
  708. ralphm Or rather "The XSF Ambassador...", as I've read people be sensitive about this even yesterday.
  709. Ge0rG dwd: I was just going to ask for a diplomatic passport.
  710. ralphm I take dwd's thinking as a motion.
  711. ralphm +1
  712. dwd +1
  713. ralphm dreads how this ends up in the minutes.
  714. MattJ h+1
  715. ralphm arc?
  716. Ge0rG dwd: technically it would be the "Federal Republic of Germany".
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  718. arc +1
  719. Ge0rG Thank you very much, I'm honored to represent the XSF in #Neuland.
  720. arc Ok so who's making him the officially xmpp loferl socken?
  721. ralphm Motion carries. Congrats!
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  725. Ge0rG For the minutes, you can link the slowly loading page at https://www.bundeskartellamt.de/SharedDocs/Meldung/EN/Pressemitteilungen/2020/12_11_2020_SU_Messenger_Services.html
  726. mukt2 has left
  727. ralphm arc: I believe you just volunteered
  728. arc Yay!
  729. ralphm 3. Open Collective
  730. ralphm From what I've seen Peter was dedicating an hour on this earlier this month. I haven't seen an update, yet.
  731. ralphm Sam pinged earlier today.
  732. ralphm 4. AOB
  733. ralphm ?
  734. arc Not this week
  735. ralphm arc: but you have one for next week?
  736. ralphm I'll wait in anticipation.
  737. arc Maybe. We'll have to see
  738. ralphm 5. Data of Next
  739. ralphm +1W
  740. ralphm 6. Close
  741. ralphm Thanks all!
  742. ralphm bangs gavel
  743. arc Ge0rG: medium shoe and calf size? 😏
  744. ralphm Is that the new ASL?
  745. arc For the Loferl Socken!
  746. adiaholic has joined
  747. MattJ Thanks all
  748. ralphm arc: sure
  749. Ge0rG As long as I'm not supposed to wear a Dirndl.
  750. dwd Just a hoodie.
  751. ralphm _just_ a hoodie?
  752. arc No it would be great to get you in a photo wearing xmpp socks and the leather pants
  753. dwd arc, Now you remind me I need to work on that CoC...
  754. arc But seriously just yesterday I was talking to a friend about loferl socken to be worn under rugby socks because they look super warm, and as long as they are less than 5mm thick they would not violate any rules.
  755. mukt2 has joined
  756. arc I have known a few people that have worn foam shin pads under their socks. But yeah anyways I was downloading knit patterns to make them
  757. dwd Minutes send.
  758. dwd Minutes sent.
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  760. ralphm Isn't the warmth simply because their 100% wool and roughly knit?
  761. ralphm Isn't the warmth simply because they're 100% wool and roughly knit?
  762. arc And they are literally anything around the calves. Rugby socks are typically knee-high but also typically thin so they are not all that warm
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  764. arc I have played in the snow. So I can testify that they are not that warm. As can all of the bonfires with players huddled around them
  765. marek has joined
  766. dwd I seem to recall that was just considered character building.
  767. adiaholic has left
  768. ralphm So basically you need some kind of Merino over-the-calf socks
  769. arc In my experience is not very. When we were playing in Manchester England it was pissing rain at around 2c out, and windy, and I had a miserable weekend
  770. dwd Or, you know, just not play rugby when it's cold.
  771. arc ralphm: that's what Loferl Socken is
  772. ralphm arc: note that Merino
  773. arc That's a brand, isn't it?
  774. dwd Also, Manchester, 2°C and heavy rain - so July or August? The rest of the year it's windy, too...
  775. Ge0rG arc: let me know when you have my XMPP branded Loferl ready, and I will arrange for a photo in leather pants.
  776. ralphm It is a breed of sheep with certain wool quality, and you now often see it used as a type-of-wool. Often thin but warm.
  777. ralphm Might make it easier to search
  778. ralphm dwd: if people wouldn't play rugby when it's cold, how did it ever take off in England?
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  780. dwd ralphm, I spent much of my childhood asking the same question.
  781. mathieui dwd, those are fast minutes!
  782. ralphm haha
  783. dwd ralphm, Usually while being forced into playing Rugby.
  784. Kev <Arc> the XSF is too European. <also Arc> I demand our liason wears loferl socken.
  785. Kev :D
  786. ralphm *boom*
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  900. Ge0rG Is xmpp.org especially slow tonight?
  901. moparisthebest seems fine to me
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  906. moparisthebest https://xmpp.org/software/libraries.html has "project name: txmpp, languages: linux" ? it's neither a library nor is it written in a programming language named linux...
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  912. mathieui moparisthebest, we went through this already, I think someone needs to put the work in adding a new page for "tools" or whatever
  913. mathieui (which txmpp is)
  914. moparisthebest it looks like a sendxmpp that relies on libstrophe from the link
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  917. moparisthebest looks like it's already on this "tools" page https://wiki.xmpp.org/web/User:MDosch/Sendxmpp_incarnations
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  919. jubalh this one seems more like the library: https://github.com/rpavlik/txmpp
  920. moparisthebest interesting, seems abandoned though
  921. Ge0rG The language would be "Unix shell"
  922. moparisthebest the one on libraries.html is actually written in C
  923. moparisthebest "Linux" makes no sense regardless
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  925. moparisthebest what in the world https://github.com/rpavlik/txmpp/blob/master/src/Equifax_Secure_Global_eBusiness_CA-1.h
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  934. roro Applogies for the random message. I was told that I should ask this here to get a precise answer. I am looking for fundamental differences between XMPP and MATRIX. I'm sure quite a bit has been written already. If you have an exhaustive link to point me, that would be great.
  935. roro If you just have some bullets for me...I'll take it 🙂
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  940. moparisthebest there are a lot of major differences, I can list a couple: 1. XMPP is an established standard with RFCs that has passed the test of time, Matrix is a... VC funded project? 2. XMPP is a message passing protocol, Matrix is some... eventually consistent graph thing? This is why matrix servers take insane amounts of resources
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  946. Zash eventually consistent globally replicated JSON graph database
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  948. roro > eventually consistent globally replicated JSON graph database Don't know if it's just me, sounds complicated.
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  951. moparisthebest roro, also XMPP is XML over TLS, Matrix is JSON over HTTPS, that's more on the level of implementation detail that doesn't matter though
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  975. emus dwd, ralphm arc I also offered Ge0rG help if I can do something. And I also followed the process so far. And some other members here too.
  976. emus > jubalh escribió: > this one seems more like the library: https://github.com/rpavlik/txmpp We allocated this to Libaries/Tools on the website I thinl
  977. emus https://xmpp.org/software/libraries.html
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