XSF Discussion - 2021-05-23

Hey

Why this channel is no encrypted

Why this channel is no encrypted

Because it its a public channel

Only upper brain2brain encryption ;-)

public chats are not encrypted. Wuuko

Ok. Thanks.

There are even public logs https://logs.xmpp.org/xsf/

shh, don't tell the hackers, this chat is not encrypted.

:)

Oh, the logs are even with join/leave.. > marc has left "" > 03:02:35 > marc has joined "" > 03:03:00 > marc has left "" > 03:03:16 > marc has joined "" > 03:03:42 > marc has left "" > 03:03:58 > marc has joined "" > 03:04:14 > mukt2 has left "" > 03:04:35 > marc has left "" > 03:04:50 > marc has joined "" > 03:05:25 > marc has left "" > 03:07:27 > marc has joined "" > 03:08:16 > marc has left "" > 03:08:34 > marc has joined "" > 03:09:05 > marc has left "" > 03:13:53 > marc has joined "" > 03:14:33 > marc has left "" > 03:14:50 > marc has joined "" > 03:15:38 > marc has left "" > 03:18:02 > marc has joined "" > 03:18:38 > marc has left "" > 03:18:52 > marc has joined "" > 03:19:45 > marc has left "" > 03:19:56 > marc has joined "" > 03:20:34 > marc has left "" > 03:20:44 > marc has joined "" > 03:21:23 > marc has left

Etc

yes it is a data desaster Menel

I always planned to use a separate JID due to that but I am too lazy.

What's the desaster?

That it is online when you switch on and off your computer.

Ah.

But the jid is not logged, only your nic. You can set a different one in each room

Strange, must be a Gajim problem :)

marc: must it?

I think so, I see that Gajim reconnects quite often on large group chats

Probably a timeout or something like that

gajim can barely cope with having #libera%irc.libera.chat open unless i always keep it maximized and look into it frequently. No, idk wtf. ✏

Matrix and XMPP which one is better?

xmpp

Why?

Not to mention the others.(Session, Signal etc.

it's well defined and not as centralized. See i don't wanna go into it, but here is one opinion https://wiki.404.city/en/XMPP_vs_Matrix

Matrix is also not central

"not as"

How?

marc, might as well be a server issue. logs would help! you're welcome to join gajim's chat

Wuuko, see the link

Is XMPP an ios?

i think so. I don't use apple.

Wuuko, yep, but the quality of the implementions varies

but i've heard positive news latetely about Monal, one of the XMPP clients for iOS

looks alright

Is encryption turned on?

i believe monal supports omemo e2ee yes

Good :)

Now matrix has got 28m user and 60k server

Wuuko: you do realize the incongruity of coming in a room mostly dedicated to XMPP and asking "XMPP or matrix, what is better?", right?

Which is ripe for inflamatory discourse, obviously

> mathieui wrote: > Wuuko: you do realize the incongruity of coming in a room mostly dedicated to XMPP and asking "XMPP or matrix, what is better?", right? Sorry. Ok.

I like it XMPP

(I don't have an issue with matrix per se, though wish they did not feel like reinventing the wheel, but I am absolutely repulsed by the agressive marketing of both representatives and fanatic users)

Can I set up a server with an old laptop

> mathieui wrote: > (I don't have an issue with matrix per se, though wish they did not feel like reinventing the wheel, but I am absolutely repulsed by the agressive marketing of both representatives and fanatic users) I understand

Wuuko: I think what mathieui wanted to say, is that likely few here would advocate for Matrix, for some reasons. If you need a tabular comparision, take a look at this table: https://www.messenger-matrix.de/messenger-matrix-en.html

Wuuko: Why do you want to setup a server yourself (immediately)?

I'm not saying you should not ask the question, just saying that the results may not necessarily be very interesting to you 😉

> emus wrote: > Wuuko: Why do you want to setup a server yourself (immediately)?To make it safer

mathieui: hehe ok

A xmpp Server can run on basically everything. Its extremely lightweight

Menel: for example old laptop?

Yes

Raspberry pi one, no problem

Wuuko: To make what safer? your communication? there a lot of well maintained servers with public registration

I suppose smart watch would work too

emus: Yes communication, for example, which server

But he'll see ip

hosting your own is not necessarily safer

wurstsalat: why?

XMPP doesn't mean anything so

They'll see ip

Wuuko: I recommend to go with a server maintainted for a while rather than trying yourself. there are many lists showing some. you can even pay for professional xmpp hosting for rather low cost

I don't know... https://snikket.org/ as a server should be fine

MattJ: public registration work here?

> emus wrote: > Wuuko: I recommend to go with a server maintainted for a while rather than trying yourself. there are many lists showing some. you can even pay for professional xmpp hosting for rather low cost Already ı will create server 1 year later

>you do realize the incongruity of coming in a room mostly dedicated to XMPP and asking "XMPP or matrix, what is better?", right? mathieui, you rather they only go to a matrix channel to ask? lol

emus, why not recommend self-hosting? That's kind of the epic part of federated protocols, and with smth like prosody it's super easy.

qrpnxz: just saying that it is probably not the best formulation to get relevant information

qrpnxz: yes, own server is best.

I would also recommend selfhosting ...

Where is the all of XMPP server list?

this does not exist

I wouldn't recommend it to everyone.

nobody can know all xmpp servers Wuuko

mdosch, yes not for everyone of course

Do you have any The List ✏

But you learn a lot and you do not need to run it permanently ...

Wuuko: > Where is the all of XMPP server list? You can scan the net on port 5269 or so with shodan.

Wuuko, a good list is maintained by emus and melvo, sry I forgot the link, but they can provide it.

I lost link, too.

Can I change servers now?

Wuuko, here is *a* list https://xmpp-servers.404.city/

mdosch, lmao bro

Thanks

qrpnxz: Afaik MattJ did something like that to guess how many prosodys are around.

İs jitsi use XMMP?

Yes

> İ You're from Turkey?

> mdosch wrote: > You're from Turkey? Yes

https://github.com/xsf/xmpp.org İs this source code?

For the website, yes.

But that's probably not useful for you.

Where are the codes of the protocol

What are you looking for there?

Wuuko, here you go https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6120

There are specifications for the protocol and there is code for server and client implementations of the protocol.

If you want to look at xmpp server code search for ejabberd or prosody.

> mdosch wrote: > If you want to look at xmpp server code search for ejabberd or prosody. No only protocol

https://wiki.xmpp.org/web/XMPP_Hosting_Providers https://wiki.xmpp.org/web/Provider_Recommendations https://wiki.xmpp.org/web/Provider_Recommendations https://list.jabber.at/ https://invent.kde.org/melvo/xmpp-providers

Wuuko: ^

Which one protocol?

It's interesting that the protocol isn't in the spotlight.

Wuuko, qrpnxz gave you a link to a protocol spec.

Wuuko: the protocol is defined by lots of documents, starting with https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6120

There are also many extensions, called xeps.

and here you find links to basically all specs https://xmpp.org/extensions/

So XMPP is fuly open source?

anyone can read and implement the spec

Wuuko: It's an open protocol. Implementations can be open or closed source.

> mdosch wrote: > Wuuko: It's an open protocol. Implementations can be open or closed source. Ok

I think you don't get the difference between protocol/spec and implementations/code

Maybe

Its like all Email Clients and Servers can interoperate. But of course you have different server and client software's

Looks like xmpp is safe

I need to find a reliable server.

Wuuko, XMPP is fully open source, yes, it is even FLOSS.

:)

You can look into the code for differnet clients and for different servers.

ejabberd and prosody are two well known and reliable xmpp server implemenations.

You can install such a server or look into its source code and also edit and thus change it, Wuuko.

qrpnxz: you said you were writing a server, is that online anywhere?

no, I'm still writing it

i can let you know when i have Core if you want

Sam,

That'd be great, thanks

> mdosch escribió: > I think you don't get the difference between protocol/spec and implementations/code I think Im gonna take this note into a presentation Im preparing

> I wrote: > What are the metadata in the hands of the server owner ?

> Sam wrote: > Wuuko: the protocol is defined by lots of documents, starting with https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6120 All protocol code is this, right?

Thats the core.. The rest is here https://xmpp.org/extensions/