XSF Discussion - 2021-05-23


  1. Wuuko

    Hey

  2. Wuuko

    Why this channel is no encrypted

  3. Wuuko

    Why this channel is no encrypted

  4. Menel

    Because it its a public channel

  5. croax

    Only upper brain2brain encryption ;-)

  6. eevvoor

    public chats are not encrypted. Wuuko

  7. Wuuko

    Ok. Thanks.

  8. Menel

    There are even public logs https://logs.xmpp.org/xsf/

  9. qrpnxz

    shh, don't tell the hackers, this chat is not encrypted.

  10. qrpnxz

    :)

  11. Menel

    Oh, the logs are even with join/leave.. > marc has left "" > 03:02:35 > marc has joined "" > 03:03:00 > marc has left "" > 03:03:16 > marc has joined "" > 03:03:42 > marc has left "" > 03:03:58 > marc has joined "" > 03:04:14 > mukt2 has left "" > 03:04:35 > marc has left "" > 03:04:50 > marc has joined "" > 03:05:25 > marc has left "" > 03:07:27 > marc has joined "" > 03:08:16 > marc has left "" > 03:08:34 > marc has joined "" > 03:09:05 > marc has left "" > 03:13:53 > marc has joined "" > 03:14:33 > marc has left "" > 03:14:50 > marc has joined "" > 03:15:38 > marc has left "" > 03:18:02 > marc has joined "" > 03:18:38 > marc has left "" > 03:18:52 > marc has joined "" > 03:19:45 > marc has left "" > 03:19:56 > marc has joined "" > 03:20:34 > marc has left "" > 03:20:44 > marc has joined "" > 03:21:23 > marc has left

  12. Menel

    Etc

  13. eevvoor

    yes it is a data desaster Menel

  14. eevvoor

    I always planned to use a separate JID due to that but I am too lazy.

  15. Menel

    What's the desaster?

  16. eevvoor

    That it is online when you switch on and off your computer.

  17. Menel

    Ah.

  18. Menel

    But the jid is not logged, only your nic. You can set a different one in each room

  19. marc

    Strange, must be a Gajim problem :)

  20. wurstsalat

    marc: must it?

  21. marc

    I think so, I see that Gajim reconnects quite often on large group chats

  22. marc

    Probably a timeout or something like that

  23. qrpnxz

    gajim can barely cope with having #libera@irc.libera.chat open unless i always keep it maximized and look into it frequently. No, idk wtf.

  24. qrpnxz

    gajim can barely cope with having #libera%irc.libera.chat open unless i always keep it maximized and look into it frequently. No, idk wtf.

  25. Wuuko

    Matrix and XMPP which one is better?

  26. qrpnxz

    xmpp

  27. Wuuko

    Why?

  28. Wuuko

    Not to mention the others.(Session, Signal etc.

  29. qrpnxz

    it's well defined and not as centralized. See i don't wanna go into it, but here is one opinion https://wiki.404.city/en/XMPP_vs_Matrix

  30. Wuuko

    Matrix is also not central

  31. qrpnxz

    "not as"

  32. Wuuko

    How?

  33. wurstsalat

    marc, might as well be a server issue. logs would help! you're welcome to join gajim's chat

  34. qrpnxz

    Wuuko, see the link

  35. Wuuko

    Is XMPP an ios?

  36. qrpnxz

    i think so. I don't use apple.

  37. flow

    Wuuko, yep, but the quality of the implementions varies

  38. flow

    but i've heard positive news latetely about Monal, one of the XMPP clients for iOS

  39. qrpnxz

    looks alright

  40. Wuuko

    Is encryption turned on?

  41. qrpnxz

    i believe monal supports omemo e2ee yes

  42. Wuuko

    Good :)

  43. Wuuko

    Now matrix has got 28m user and 60k server

  44. mathieui

    Wuuko: you do realize the incongruity of coming in a room mostly dedicated to XMPP and asking "XMPP or matrix, what is better?", right?

  45. mathieui

    Which is ripe for inflamatory discourse, obviously

  46. Wuuko

    > mathieui wrote: > Wuuko: you do realize the incongruity of coming in a room mostly dedicated to XMPP and asking "XMPP or matrix, what is better?", right? Sorry. Ok.

  47. Wuuko

    I like it XMPP

  48. mathieui

    (I don't have an issue with matrix per se, though wish they did not feel like reinventing the wheel, but I am absolutely repulsed by the agressive marketing of both representatives and fanatic users)

  49. Wuuko

    Can I set up a server with an old laptop

  50. Wuuko

    > mathieui wrote: > (I don't have an issue with matrix per se, though wish they did not feel like reinventing the wheel, but I am absolutely repulsed by the agressive marketing of both representatives and fanatic users) I understand

  51. emus

    Wuuko: I think what mathieui wanted to say, is that likely few here would advocate for Matrix, for some reasons. If you need a tabular comparision, take a look at this table: https://www.messenger-matrix.de/messenger-matrix-en.html

  52. emus

    Wuuko: Why do you want to setup a server yourself (immediately)?

  53. mathieui

    I'm not saying you should not ask the question, just saying that the results may not necessarily be very interesting to you 😉

  54. Wuuko

    > emus wrote: > Wuuko: Why do you want to setup a server yourself (immediately)?To make it safer

  55. emus

    mathieui: hehe ok

  56. Menel

    A xmpp Server can run on basically everything. Its extremely lightweight

  57. Wuuko

    Menel: for example old laptop?

  58. Menel

    Yes

  59. Menel

    Raspberry pi one, no problem

  60. emus

    Wuuko: To make what safer? your communication? there a lot of well maintained servers with public registration

  61. Menel

    I suppose smart watch would work too

  62. Wuuko

    emus: Yes communication, for example, which server

  63. Wuuko

    But he'll see ip

  64. wurstsalat

    hosting your own is not necessarily safer

  65. Wuuko

    wurstsalat: why?

  66. Wuuko

    XMPP doesn't mean anything so

  67. Wuuko

    They'll see ip

  68. emus

    Wuuko: I recommend to go with a server maintainted for a while rather than trying yourself. there are many lists showing some. you can even pay for professional xmpp hosting for rather low cost

  69. Menel

    I don't know... https://snikket.org/ as a server should be fine

  70. emus

    MattJ: public registration work here?

  71. Wuuko

    > emus wrote: > Wuuko: I recommend to go with a server maintainted for a while rather than trying yourself. there are many lists showing some. you can even pay for professional xmpp hosting for rather low cost Already ı will create server 1 year later

  72. qrpnxz

    >you do realize the incongruity of coming in a room mostly dedicated to XMPP and asking "XMPP or matrix, what is better?", right? mathieui, you rather they only go to a matrix channel to ask? lol

  73. qrpnxz

    emus, why not recommend self-hosting? That's kind of the epic part of federated protocols, and with smth like prosody it's super easy.

  74. mathieui

    qrpnxz: just saying that it is probably not the best formulation to get relevant information

  75. Wuuko

    qrpnxz: yes, own server is best.

  76. eevvoor

    I would also recommend selfhosting ...

  77. Wuuko

    Where is the all of XMPP server list?

  78. eevvoor

    this does not exist

  79. mdosch

    I wouldn't recommend it to everyone.

  80. eevvoor

    nobody can know all xmpp servers Wuuko

  81. eevvoor

    mdosch, yes not for everyone of course

  82. Wuuko

    Do you have any

  83. Wuuko

    Do you have any The List

  84. eevvoor

    But you learn a lot and you do not need to run it permanently ...

  85. mdosch

    Wuuko: > Where is the all of XMPP server list? You can scan the net on port 5269 or so with shodan.

  86. eevvoor

    Wuuko, a good list is maintained by emus and melvo, sry I forgot the link, but they can provide it.

  87. Wuuko

    I lost link, too.

  88. Wuuko

    Can I change servers now?

  89. qrpnxz

    Wuuko, here is *a* list https://xmpp-servers.404.city/

  90. qrpnxz

    mdosch, lmao bro

  91. Wuuko

    Thanks

  92. mdosch

    qrpnxz: Afaik MattJ did something like that to guess how many prosodys are around.

  93. Wuuko

    İs jitsi use XMMP?

  94. mdosch

    Yes

  95. mdosch

    > İ You're from Turkey?

  96. Wuuko

    > mdosch wrote: > You're from Turkey? Yes

  97. Wuuko

    https://github.com/xsf/xmpp.org İs this source code?

  98. mdosch

    For the website, yes.

  99. mdosch

    But that's probably not useful for you.

  100. Wuuko

    Where are the codes of the protocol

  101. mdosch

    What are you looking for there?

  102. qrpnxz

    Wuuko, here you go https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6120

  103. mdosch

    There are specifications for the protocol and there is code for server and client implementations of the protocol.

  104. mdosch

    If you want to look at xmpp server code search for ejabberd or prosody.

  105. Wuuko

    > mdosch wrote: > If you want to look at xmpp server code search for ejabberd or prosody. No only protocol

  106. emus

    https://wiki.xmpp.org/web/XMPP_Hosting_Providers https://wiki.xmpp.org/web/Provider_Recommendations https://wiki.xmpp.org/web/Provider_Recommendations https://list.jabber.at/ https://invent.kde.org/melvo/xmpp-providers

  107. emus

    Wuuko: ^

  108. Wuuko

    Which one protocol?

  109. Wuuko

    It's interesting that the protocol isn't in the spotlight.

  110. mdosch

    Wuuko, qrpnxz gave you a link to a protocol spec.

  111. Sam

    Wuuko: the protocol is defined by lots of documents, starting with https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6120

  112. mdosch

    There are also many extensions, called xeps.

  113. qrpnxz

    and here you find links to basically all specs https://xmpp.org/extensions/

  114. Wuuko

    So XMPP is fuly open source?

  115. qrpnxz

    anyone can read and implement the spec

  116. mdosch

    Wuuko: It's an open protocol. Implementations can be open or closed source.

  117. Wuuko

    > mdosch wrote: > Wuuko: It's an open protocol. Implementations can be open or closed source. Ok

  118. mdosch

    I think you don't get the difference between protocol/spec and implementations/code

  119. Wuuko

    Maybe

  120. Menel

    Its like all Email Clients and Servers can interoperate. But of course you have different server and client software's

  121. Wuuko

    Looks like xmpp is safe

  122. Wuuko

    I need to find a reliable server.

  123. eevvoor

    Wuuko, XMPP is fully open source, yes, it is even FLOSS.

  124. Wuuko

    :)

  125. eevvoor

    You can look into the code for differnet clients and for different servers.

  126. eevvoor

    ejabberd and prosody are two well known and reliable xmpp server implemenations.

  127. eevvoor

    You can install such a server or look into its source code and also edit and thus change it, Wuuko.

  128. Sam

    qrpnxz: you said you were writing a server, is that online anywhere?

  129. qrpnxz

    no, I'm still writing it

  130. qrpnxz

    i can let you know when i have Core if you want

  131. qrpnxz

    Sam,

  132. Sam

    That'd be great, thanks

  133. emus

    > mdosch escribió: > I think you don't get the difference between protocol/spec and implementations/code I think Im gonna take this note into a presentation Im preparing

  134. şişio

    > I wrote: > What are the metadata in the hands of the server owner ?

  135. şişio

    > Sam wrote: > Wuuko: the protocol is defined by lots of documents, starting with https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6120 All protocol code is this, right?

  136. Menel

    Thats the core.. The rest is here https://xmpp.org/extensions/