XSF Discussion - 2021-05-25

  1. şişio


  2. eevvoor

    Voting has not started yet? The bot does not answer me ...

  3. emus

    No, I dont think so

  4. emus


  5. Alex

    not started yet. Was a long holiday weekend here in Germany. Will start the bot today after catching up with some work and requests 😀

  6. emus


  7. eevvoor


  8. şişio

    no voice and video calls on the computer

  9. şişio


  10. şişio


  11. Zash

    That would depend on the client.

  12. şişio

    which client has got video call in the windows

  13. jonas’

    dino might

  14. şişio


  15. Zash

    All I know is that in the past (~10 years ago) it was difficult to get the relevant media libraries running on Windows, so the functionality was mostly limited to Linux, at least among open source clients.

  16. Zash

    Dino did get voice & video call support recently, not sure if it works in the unofficial windows builds. There's a chat for that somewhere you could ask.

  17. şişio

    Zash So there is no video calls in Win

  18. Zash

    I did not say that.

  19. Zash

    I do not use windows, so I don't know.

  20. şişio


  21. mdosch

    şişio: xmpp:dino-win@chat.diebesban.de?join

  22. şişio

    Thanks > şişio: xmpp:dino-win@chat.diebesban.de?join

  23. jl4

    Heya xmmp istas, nice to be here

  24. Zash


  25. jl4

    Here conversation is about standards, right ? ☺

  26. moparisthebest

    yep, specifically XMPP standards :)

  27. Zash

    and a touch of XSF organizational meta

  28. jl4

    Okeey , crystal clear

  29. jl4

    I got to the xmpp beast heart's ? 😅

  30. jl4

    A pleasure... eager to learn from

  31. jl4

    Umh... xmpp:jdev@muc.xmpp.org seems to be idle kind of... right ?

  32. moparisthebest

    sometimes yes, sometimes no, be the change you want to see :)

  33. Zash

    For 4 hours?

  34. qrpnxz

    stuff that could go on jdev i tend to put here instead, or maybe in the operators chat, they are closely related

  35. jl4

    > sometimes yes, sometimes no, be the change you want to see :) Inspiring quote, moparisthebest

  36. moparisthebest

    the line between "standards" and "code" is very fine, or sometimes doesn't exist

  37. jl4

    Ah, qrpnxz

  38. jonas’

    Kev, https://github.com/xsf/xeps/pull/1047 can you give this another review please?

  39. jonas’

    flow, https://github.com/xsf/xeps/pull/1059 wanna officially unblock this by giving another review?

  40. flow

    jonas’, done

  41. jonas’

    flow, thanks!

  42. Zash

    https://github.com/xsf/xeps/pull/848 😑️

  43. Zash

    is https://github.com/xsf/xeps/pull/988 ready?

  44. flow

    I'd love to see a author response deadline, something like 6-10 weeks. Such timeouts incentivize author responses in my experience from other projects

  45. jonas’

    Zash, no, 988 still needs that thing fixed I mentioned in the comments

  46. jonas’

    flow, no, they only piss authors off

  47. jonas’

    when I see a project autoclosing issues, I go away.

  48. flow

    I am not talking about autoclosing issues

  49. jonas’

    what’s the difference?

  50. flow

    (I think those are harmfull myself)

  51. flow

    the difference is that you don't close the issue

  52. jonas’

    what do you do then?

  53. mathieui

    jonas’, more like "delegate to council after X weeks of the author not taking the time to answer, except if they request an extension)" I guess

  54. jonas’

    mathieui, ah well, at least half of the linked ones need work done, not a decision.

  55. flow

    that's a good question. first, it is obvious that the XEP authors are not able to support it in a reasonable fashion at the moment

  56. flow

    which is bad, as it stalls further development

  57. jonas’

    '848 we can bring to council easily

  58. flow

    and makes contributors sad, as their work has no way to progress forward

  59. moparisthebest

    insta-merge if no objection in X weeks :P

  60. jonas’

    then council will have something to vote on for a change

  61. flow

    so I think there a multiple options how to proceed from there, which do not necessarily have to be exclusive

  62. flow

    one is to defer to council for a decission

  63. flow

    another one is to ask if someone from the community wants to continue maintaining the XEP

  64. mathieui

    maybe have a way to temporarily delegate authorship when the author is unresponsive?

  65. jonas’

    we can already delegate authorship

  66. jonas’

    if people cared enough that is

  67. mathieui


  68. jonas’

    more process isn’t going to help this :)

  69. flow

    not sure, it sure would be a good sign to the average contributor if someone else steps in after a author response timeout

  70. mathieui

    I was more thinking of "ask the person blocked by the unresponsiveness if they want to do the work required"

  71. flow

    instead of the current situation where PRs just lay dormant for months

  72. mathieui

    but yeah, adding more layers of process when the main issue is lack of manpower is not going to help much

  73. L29Ah

    moparisthebest: https://github.com/moparisthebest/xmpp-ircd do i get it right this is python2?

  74. flow

    i'd be happy to perdiocially screen old PRs and check them for author responses, so manpower shouldn't be an issue in this particular case

  75. moparisthebest

    L29Ah, yep

  76. flow

    but first, we have to agree on a process

  77. jonas’

    flow, PLEASE do then

  78. jonas’

    we don’t need process for that

  79. jonas’

    pinging authors we can do already

  80. jonas’

    and if you find stale PRs which seem somehow useful, bring them to council

  81. flow

    I don't feel qualified and/or authorized to judge PRs usefullness, so I would probably simply label all PRs with where the author response is more than 8 weeks outstanding as "Needs Council"

  82. flow

    I could do that, but it feels wrong to assign some entity work prior asking that entity

  83. jonas’

    good thing that I’m council chair :)

  84. jonas’

    by "useful", I mean anything which isn’t obviously obsolete / broken / incomplete (based e.g. on existing comments)

  85. jonas’

    for instance, '988 is not for council

  86. Zash

    Is storing contact vcards a thing anyone cares about anyway?

  87. jonas’

    I don’t know

  88. Zash

    Roster notes was a thing, right?

  89. eevvoor

    I like vcards. They are a standard.

  90. jonas’


  91. jonas’ runs

  92. eevvoor

    I try to sync them between diferent technologies.

  93. Zash yeets <UPPERCASE TAG NAMES> after jonas’

  94. L29Ah stores his phone contacts as vcard as everything understands it

  95. eevvoor

    vcard-tmp2 perhaps better?

  96. eevvoor


  97. jl4

    Sure... too much segmentation, sometimes...

  98. eevvoor

    Yeay, I have voted :).

  99. Alex

    Memberbot is online now and happy to talk to you ;-)

  100. eevvoor

    I hit two records: I was the last to write the application and the first to vote.

  101. qrpnxz

    i like vcards like I like my passwords, not on servers.

  102. şişio

    How many users does XMPP have?

  103. jonas’

    nobody knws

  104. jonas’

    nobody knows

  105. şişio


  106. MattJ

    Nobody knows

  107. MattJ

    If you have suggestions on how we can find out, let us know :)

  108. şişio


  109. jonas’

    I have numbers, but they are certainly wrong and I can’t tell by which factor *or* in which direction, so they’re as good as SystemRandom().getrandint()

  110. şişio

    But it seems like a lot

  111. jonas’

    I have numbers, but they are certainly wrong and I can’t tell by which factor *or* in which direction, so they’re as ~good~ bad as SystemRandom().getrandint()

  112. jonas’

    (please don’t use those numbers to roll private keys)

  113. MattJ

    There are some stats on Prosody servers here: https://blog.prosody.im/2020-retrospective/ (but that doesn't include other implementations [Prosody is roughly around 50% of the known public network]), and it doesn't tell us how many users are on any of these servers

  114. şişio

    85k server...

  115. Menel

    > And this only counts instances using port 5269 and accessible to the internet.

  116. qrpnxz

    şişio, about a gajillion

  117. Zash

    Also depends on what you count as "XMPP"

  118. qrpnxz

    from XSF https://xmpp.org/uses/social.html https://xmpp.org/uses/social.html

  119. qrpnxz

    ^ some numbers

  120. L29Ah


  121. L29Ah

    personally i count all IRC networks accessible through biboumi as XMPP

  122. L29Ah

    (at least this method works for Matrix)

  123. eevvoor

    then there exists no IRC for me.

  124. eevvoor

    Everything in IRC I need is accessible via biboumi.

  125. Zash

    What about everything reachable through the Matrix-XMPP bridge?

  126. moparisthebest

    Matrix would count that

  127. Zash

    Multiple times too!

  128. moparisthebest

    In theory XMPP can be bridged to talk to everyone so what's the population of the earth?

  129. Zash

    jmp.chat you say?

  130. ben

    smtp.cheogram.com also

  131. şişio

    > from XSF https://xmpp.org/uses/social.html https://xmpp.org/uses/social.html > ^ some numbers İs this really right?

  132. şişio

    https://xmpp.org/uses/webrtc.html https://xmpp.org/uses/social.html https://xmpp.org/uses/internet-of-things.html https://xmpp.org/uses/gaming.html

  133. şişio

    Woww, ı think these are right