XSF Discussion - 2021-05-27


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  85. moparisthebest why do people do any of the stupid things people do? one of the unsolved mysteries of the universe I guess
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  158. qrpnxz cause they don't care
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  503. şişio Where do I find articles about XMPP
  504. şişio Where do I find articles about XMPP?
  505. MattJ https://xmpp.org/category/newsletter.html is a good place to start
  506. MattJ and https://planet.jabber.org/
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  525. şişio XMPP is the name for the streaming XML protocol that emerged from the Jabber open source community in 1999. When that community submitted the protocol to the Internet Engineering Task Force (IETF) in 2002, it chose to use the name “XMPP” instead of “Jabber” to eliminate the possibility of confusion with the open source community and the commercial Jabber.com company (since acquired by Cisco Systems, Inc.) What did mean, (since acquired by Cisco Systems, Inc.)?
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  527. şişio Is Jabber another company?
  528. wgreenhouse şişio: jabber.com is part of Cisco, yes. and Jabber(tm) is a Cisco trademark
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  530. wgreenhouse that makes proprietary xmpp systems
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  533. şişio XMPP=CİSCO?
  534. Zash No
  535. Zash Many years ago there was a company called Jabber Inc.
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  537. Zash They were bought by Cisco.
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  539. Zash That's why Cisco owns the Jabber trademark.
  540. Zash XMPP is the name for the protocol that was selected during IETF standardization.
  541. şişio So right now jabber and xmpp are the same thing
  542. Zash XMPP isn't owned by any company
  543. şişio Good :)
  544. MattJ See also https://web.archive.org/web/20130416095113/https://stpeter.im/journal/1270.html
  545. Zash You can think of it as "Jabber" being like "email" and "XMPP" being like "SMTP" or "IMAP"
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  552. şişio Where does cisco, xmpp exist now
  553. moparisthebest except if google had a trademark on the word "email"
  554. şişio XMPP doesn't own it, that's good
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  556. şişio It just says his name?
  557. şişio So what are they doing?
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  559. MattJ https://www.cisco.com/c/en/us/products/unified-communications/jabber/index.html
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  562. şişio Don't they have a say because they bought jabber?
  563. Zash Over what? XMPP? No more than you
  564. şişio > Over what? XMPP? No more than you Yes XMPP
  565. Zash They have a say over the use of the "Jabber" trademark.
  566. şişio I don't know what they got.
  567. şişio > They have a say over the use of the "Jabber" trademark. And xmpp?
  568. Zash If they want to have a say in the development of XMPP and XEPs they can come here or join the mailing lists like anyone else.
  569. şişio So they're the only legally impp owners.
  570. şişio But they can't turn it off.
  571. Zash Not sure what you mean
  572. mdosch Did Cisco participate in xmpp development at any time?
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  574. Kev Yes.
  575. şişio Legal owner cisco
  576. şişio But they can't shut down XMPP.
  577. moparisthebest cisco has no control over XMPP the word or protocol
  578. Kev mdosch: 6120 et al. were all published while Peter was working for Cisco, for example.
  579. moparisthebest they do over "jabber" the word though, so in my opinion we should never use it to refer to XMPP
  580. mdosch Ah, stpeter was working for Cisco?
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  582. Kev > MattJ > See also https://web.archive.org/web/20130416095113/https://stpeter.im/journal/1270.html
  583. Zash Bunch of people were working for Cisco at some time or other.
  584. şişio > cisco has no control over XMPP the word or protocol 😀
  585. Kev Cisco have also put us up for the XMPP Summit for a number of years, in which they’re often participated.
  586. Kev Cisco have also put us up for the XMPP Summit for a number of years, in which they’ve often participated.
  587. Zash Which is nice
  588. şişio XMPP really good. I don't need to look for another messenger.
  589. şişio I try Session and Signal 😀🤷‍♂️
  590. mathieui Yes, Cisco has been real nice for as long as I can remember, for the org part (I wish cisco jabber was a bit more standard, though :D)
  591. şişio > I try Session and Signal 😀🤷‍♂️ But Signal is broken and Session not full open source
  592. şişio XMPP is best for me
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  594. moparisthebest I don't think you'll have to convince anyone *here*
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  596. şişio > I don't think you'll have to convince anyone *here* Yes!
  597. Zash If you are happy than that is good 🙂
  598. moparisthebest QUIC standardization crew seems to be getting tired https://github.com/quicwg/base-drafts/pull/4921
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  602. Zash Time to submit a PR that replaces the whole thing with "Let's just go back to HTTP/1.1"
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  613. ralphm moparisthebest: I am not sure if they are tired of Markdown or the IETF process, TBH :-D
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  616. moparisthebest ralphm, ha yea, well they are tired of *something* :)
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  619. ralphm In any case, I am still excited about the potential of QUIC, beyond just HTTP
  620. moparisthebest same, I'm already doing xmpp over it with https://github.com/moparisthebest/xmpp-proxy (todo: specs :) )
  621. qrpnxz moparisthebest, lol wtf
  622. qrpnxz Zash, probably for the best tbh
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  658. Menel > QUIC standardization crew seems to be getting tired https://github.com/quicwg/base-drafts/pull/4921 Reminds me of https://m.xkcd.com/1296/
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  684. edhelas can't wait for "QUIC over HTTP" RFC
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  703. arc Meeting time?
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  707. arc Ralphm? Dwd? Mattj?
  708. MattJ Here
  709. arc Well we have quorum then. Do we have an agenda with anything pressing?
  710. MattJ Nothing from me
  711. MattJ There are obviously some ongoing task items
  712. jonas’ CoC?
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  718. MattJ Yes
  719. jonas’ there was yet another (small) instance where a set of rules (however you like to call them) for operators@ (the MUC) would’ve been useful.
  720. arc Any progress on that?
  721. arc Especially given all the chaos happening on freenode..
  722. MattJ Awaiting an update from dwd I think
  723. dwd Hiya. Penultimate day at work, so I'm barelling through stuff. I'll spend some time over the weekend on this.
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  726. MattJ Sounds good
  727. MattJ If you need any assistance let us know
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  730. arc Okay so it sounds like we don't really have anything to meet about today. Next week then?
  731. MattJ Works for me
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  799. şişio finally cisco only official own, nothing else
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  801. şişio Protocol is free
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  808. Zash Yes, the protocol is free
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  812. şişio What's Cisco doing, just helping?
  813. moparisthebest actively hurting by making "Cisco Jabber" such a shitty project I think :)
  814. Zash Hosting the Summit is nice tho.
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  819. şişio > actively hurting by making "Cisco Jabber" such a shitty project I think :) İs Cisco Jabber is different?
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  821. moparisthebest yes
  822. şişio But XMPP is good
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  826. tutenote Is cisco using their own XEP or using xmpp's?
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  832. flow tutenote, the answer is probably "yes"
  833. flow meaning that they may do the same as e.g. process one (and others) does: using some XSF XEPs and some custom extension
  834. flow meaning that they may do the same as e.g. process one (and others) does: using some XSF XEPs and some custom extensions
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  841. şişio Is there anything I should be worried about with Cisco?
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  849. şişio I'll open a server accordingly
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  852. mdosch Worried about what? Using the "Jabber" term? Afaik the XSF can grant you permission to use it.
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  854. şişio > Worried about what? Using the "Jabber" term? Afaik the XSF can grant you permission to use it. In terms of security
  855. şişio I guess nothing changes with Cisco or any other name.
  856. şişio Right?
  857. mdosch I don't get what you mean.
  858. şişio A concern for safety
  859. Zash About Cisco? I wouldn't worry
  860. şişio Is there anything in Cisco that destroys security?
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  863. Zash No?
  864. şişio Ok.
  865. Zash I don't know.
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  868. şişio > I don't know. That it's a security breach or not?
  869. Zash Where?
  870. şişio Xmpp, by Cisco
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  873. Zash I don't understand.
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  875. şişio Sorry... Can Cisco do something bad to XMPP? Zash
  876. şişio Zash: Sorry... Can Cisco do something bad to XMPP?
  877. mdosch No
  878. mdosch They don't have control over the protocol and/or implementations.
  879. şişio 👍🤐
  880. jonas’ worst that could happen is that something™ happens to the trademark and a bunch of stuff needs to change names
  881. Zash Nothing security related, not anymore than you or I.
  882. şişio > worst that could happen is that something™ happens to the trademark and a bunch of stuff needs to change names Really good
  883. şişio Thanks
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  944. homebeach How is going with XMPP? Is future looking bright?
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  957. MattJ Absolutely!
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  998. emus > homebeach escribió: > How is going with XMPP? Is future looking bright? What means future bright for you? I have written a commentary which might goes into this direction: https://xmpp.org/2021/01/instant-messaging-its-not-about-the-app/
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