XSF Discussion - 2021-05-27


  1. moparisthebest

    why do people do any of the stupid things people do? one of the unsolved mysteries of the universe I guess

  2. qrpnxz

    cause they don't care

  3. şişio

    Where do I find articles about XMPP

  4. şişio

    Where do I find articles about XMPP?

  5. MattJ

    https://xmpp.org/category/newsletter.html is a good place to start

  6. MattJ

    and https://planet.jabber.org/

  7. şişio

    XMPP is the name for the streaming XML protocol that emerged from the Jabber open source community in 1999. When that community submitted the protocol to the Internet Engineering Task Force (IETF) in 2002, it chose to use the name “XMPP” instead of “Jabber” to eliminate the possibility of confusion with the open source community and the commercial Jabber.com company (since acquired by Cisco Systems, Inc.) What did mean, (since acquired by Cisco Systems, Inc.)?

  8. şişio

    Is Jabber another company?

  9. wgreenhouse

    şişio: jabber.com is part of Cisco, yes. and Jabber(tm) is a Cisco trademark

  10. wgreenhouse

    that makes proprietary xmpp systems

  11. şişio

    XMPP=CİSCO?

  12. Zash

    No

  13. Zash

    Many years ago there was a company called Jabber Inc.

  14. Zash

    They were bought by Cisco.

  15. Zash

    That's why Cisco owns the Jabber trademark.

  16. Zash

    XMPP is the name for the protocol that was selected during IETF standardization.

  17. şişio

    So right now jabber and xmpp are the same thing

  18. Zash

    XMPP isn't owned by any company

  19. şişio

    Good :)

  20. MattJ

    See also https://web.archive.org/web/20130416095113/https://stpeter.im/journal/1270.html

  21. Zash

    You can think of it as "Jabber" being like "email" and "XMPP" being like "SMTP" or "IMAP"

  22. şişio

    Where does cisco, xmpp exist now

  23. moparisthebest

    except if google had a trademark on the word "email"

  24. şişio

    XMPP doesn't own it, that's good

  25. şişio

    It just says his name?

  26. şişio

    So what are they doing?

  27. MattJ

    https://www.cisco.com/c/en/us/products/unified-communications/jabber/index.html

  28. şişio

    Don't they have a say because they bought jabber?

  29. Zash

    Over what? XMPP? No more than you

  30. şişio

    > Over what? XMPP? No more than you Yes XMPP

  31. Zash

    They have a say over the use of the "Jabber" trademark.

  32. şişio

    I don't know what they got.

  33. şişio

    > They have a say over the use of the "Jabber" trademark. And xmpp?

  34. Zash

    If they want to have a say in the development of XMPP and XEPs they can come here or join the mailing lists like anyone else.

  35. şişio

    So they're the only legally impp owners.

  36. şişio

    But they can't turn it off.

  37. Zash

    Not sure what you mean

  38. mdosch

    Did Cisco participate in xmpp development at any time?

  39. Kev

    Yes.

  40. şişio

    Legal owner cisco

  41. şişio

    But they can't shut down XMPP.

  42. moparisthebest

    cisco has no control over XMPP the word or protocol

  43. Kev

    mdosch: 6120 et al. were all published while Peter was working for Cisco, for example.

  44. moparisthebest

    they do over "jabber" the word though, so in my opinion we should never use it to refer to XMPP

  45. mdosch

    Ah, stpeter was working for Cisco?

  46. Kev

    > MattJ > See also https://web.archive.org/web/20130416095113/https://stpeter.im/journal/1270.html

  47. Zash

    Bunch of people were working for Cisco at some time or other.

  48. şişio

    > cisco has no control over XMPP the word or protocol 😀

  49. Kev

    Cisco have also put us up for the XMPP Summit for a number of years, in which they’re often participated.

  50. Kev

    Cisco have also put us up for the XMPP Summit for a number of years, in which they’ve often participated.

  51. Zash

    Which is nice

  52. şişio

    XMPP really good. I don't need to look for another messenger.

  53. şişio

    I try Session and Signal 😀🤷‍♂️

  54. mathieui

    Yes, Cisco has been real nice for as long as I can remember, for the org part (I wish cisco jabber was a bit more standard, though :D)

  55. şişio

    > I try Session and Signal 😀🤷‍♂️ But Signal is broken and Session not full open source

  56. şişio

    XMPP is best for me

  57. moparisthebest

    I don't think you'll have to convince anyone *here*

  58. şişio

    > I don't think you'll have to convince anyone *here* Yes!

  59. Zash

    If you are happy than that is good 🙂

  60. moparisthebest

    QUIC standardization crew seems to be getting tired https://github.com/quicwg/base-drafts/pull/4921

  61. Zash

    Time to submit a PR that replaces the whole thing with "Let's just go back to HTTP/1.1"

  62. ralphm

    moparisthebest: I am not sure if they are tired of Markdown or the IETF process, TBH :-D

  63. moparisthebest

    ralphm, ha yea, well they are tired of *something* :)

  64. ralphm

    In any case, I am still excited about the potential of QUIC, beyond just HTTP

  65. moparisthebest

    same, I'm already doing xmpp over it with https://github.com/moparisthebest/xmpp-proxy (todo: specs :) )

  66. qrpnxz

    moparisthebest, lol wtf

  67. qrpnxz

    Zash, probably for the best tbh

  68. Menel

    > QUIC standardization crew seems to be getting tired https://github.com/quicwg/base-drafts/pull/4921 Reminds me of https://m.xkcd.com/1296/

  69. edhelas

    can't wait for "QUIC over HTTP" RFC

  70. arc

    Meeting time?

  71. arc

    Ralphm? Dwd? Mattj?

  72. MattJ

    Here

  73. arc

    Well we have quorum then. Do we have an agenda with anything pressing?

  74. MattJ

    Nothing from me

  75. MattJ

    There are obviously some ongoing task items

  76. jonas’

    CoC?

  77. MattJ

    Yes

  78. jonas’

    there was yet another (small) instance where a set of rules (however you like to call them) for operators@ (the MUC) would’ve been useful.

  79. arc

    Any progress on that?

  80. arc

    Especially given all the chaos happening on freenode..

  81. MattJ

    Awaiting an update from dwd I think

  82. dwd

    Hiya. Penultimate day at work, so I'm barelling through stuff. I'll spend some time over the weekend on this.

  83. MattJ

    Sounds good

  84. MattJ

    If you need any assistance let us know

  85. arc

    Okay so it sounds like we don't really have anything to meet about today. Next week then?

  86. MattJ

    Works for me

  87. şişio

    finally cisco only official own, nothing else

  88. şişio

    Protocol is free

  89. Zash

    Yes, the protocol is free

  90. şişio

    What's Cisco doing, just helping?

  91. moparisthebest

    actively hurting by making "Cisco Jabber" such a shitty project I think :)

  92. Zash

    Hosting the Summit is nice tho.

  93. şişio

    > actively hurting by making "Cisco Jabber" such a shitty project I think :) İs Cisco Jabber is different?

  94. moparisthebest

    yes

  95. şişio

    But XMPP is good

  96. tutenote

    Is cisco using their own XEP or using xmpp's?

  97. flow

    tutenote, the answer is probably "yes"

  98. flow

    meaning that they may do the same as e.g. process one (and others) does: using some XSF XEPs and some custom extension

  99. flow

    meaning that they may do the same as e.g. process one (and others) does: using some XSF XEPs and some custom extensions

  100. şişio

    Is there anything I should be worried about with Cisco?

  101. şişio

    I'll open a server accordingly

  102. mdosch

    Worried about what? Using the "Jabber" term? Afaik the XSF can grant you permission to use it.

  103. şişio

    > Worried about what? Using the "Jabber" term? Afaik the XSF can grant you permission to use it. In terms of security

  104. şişio

    I guess nothing changes with Cisco or any other name.

  105. şişio

    Right?

  106. mdosch

    I don't get what you mean.

  107. şişio

    A concern for safety

  108. Zash

    About Cisco? I wouldn't worry

  109. şişio

    Is there anything in Cisco that destroys security?

  110. Zash

    No?

  111. şişio

    Ok.

  112. Zash

    I don't know.

  113. şişio

    > I don't know. That it's a security breach or not?

  114. Zash

    Where?

  115. şişio

    Xmpp, by Cisco

  116. Zash

    I don't understand.

  117. şişio

    Sorry... Can Cisco do something bad to XMPP? Zash

  118. şişio

    Zash: Sorry... Can Cisco do something bad to XMPP?

  119. mdosch

    No

  120. mdosch

    They don't have control over the protocol and/or implementations.

  121. şişio

    👍🤐

  122. jonas’

    worst that could happen is that something™ happens to the trademark and a bunch of stuff needs to change names

  123. Zash

    Nothing security related, not anymore than you or I.

  124. şişio

    > worst that could happen is that something™ happens to the trademark and a bunch of stuff needs to change names Really good

  125. şişio

    Thanks

  126. homebeach

    How is going with XMPP? Is future looking bright?

  127. MattJ

    Absolutely!

  128. emus

    > homebeach escribió: > How is going with XMPP? Is future looking bright? What means future bright for you? I have written a commentary which might goes into this direction: https://xmpp.org/2021/01/instant-messaging-its-not-about-the-app/