XSF Discussion - 2021-06-08


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  337. edhelas https://www.nextinpact.com/article/46148/anom-cryptophone-dont-fbi-avait-clef
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  339. edhelas (in french, but you can find the same news in english)
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  341. edhelas basically the company that was selling those "cryptophone" was based on OMEMO
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  343. Ge0rG literally or a similar concept?
  344. edhelas https://www.europol.europa.eu/newsroom/news/800-criminals-arrested-in-biggest-ever-law-enforcement-operation-against-encrypted-communication
  345. edhelas no no, literally if I read correctly
  346. mathieui Ge0rG, literally, but probably backdoored to an extent
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  350. Ge0rG I don't see mention of that in https://archive.is/yOVBN
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  355. edhelas https://upload.movim.eu/files/9d94237298995552fa13436420195fbca436dce7/DgJiRUXTGfbI/Capture_d_%C3%A9cran_2021-06-08_16-00-33.png
  356. Daniel Ge0rG: read the court documents
  357. John has left
  358. Daniel That blog post is weird or only somewhat related
  359. jonas’ > The lead architect for OMEMO’s integration into Anøm is Daniel Gultsch.
  360. jonas’ > […] mentor to Andreas Straub, the creator of OMEMO.
  361. jonas’ now that’s something to have your nametag on
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  363. moparisthebest if it was a conversations fork, did they release the code GPL or not ?
  364. Daniel Sue the FBI?
  365. Daniel For GPL violation
  366. moparisthebest now you are talking Daniel !
  367. Zash Note to self: Restock on popcorn.
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  372. moparisthebest jonas’, where did you find that text?
  373. edhelas Daniel maybe you can just ask them to do a PR in the Conversations sourcecode
  374. edhelas #EverythingWentBetterThanExpected
  375. jonas’ to get the backdoor?
  376. jonas’ moparisthebest, in the screenshot from edhelas
  377. edhelas jonas’ (don't say it out loud)
  378. flow Daniel, are court documents available?
  379. jonas’ flow, https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/20799201-operation-trojan-shield-court-record
  380. flow jonas’, thanks
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  382. edhelas https://upload.movim.eu/files/9d94237298995552fa13436420195fbca436dce7/G3USPUN6663d/image.png
  383. edhelas so looks like they have a weird JID naming convention
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  385. eevvoor what which court and why?
  386. eevvoor What did I miss?
  387. flow eevvoor, https://www.vice.com/en/article/akgkwj/operation-trojan-shield-anom-fbi-secret-phone-network
  388. flow uh thunderstorm coming
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  392. edhelas the app screenshots seems really different from Conversations, looks like they did some work on the fork
  393. eevvoor where do you know from that it is a conv fork?
  394. edhelas wild guess, but you're true, we don't know
  395. eevvoor I see
  396. eevvoor Sadly, I do not sell or consume cocaine, so I have not see Anon in real /s.
  397. wladmis has left
  398. eevvoor Stupid criminals, who uses encryption propagated as "ultra" secure 😂️?
  399. wladmis has joined
  400. edhelas will propose a change on the OMEMO XEP to add the word "ultra secure" to it
  401. edhelas "military grade"
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  403. eevvoor ultra is for loosers
  404. eevvoor supermegaultra
  405. Daniel There is also this video https://twitter.com/AusFedPolice/status/1402150051762171904
  406. wurstsalat "hyper secure", to give it a frech touch ;)
  407. eevvoor quantum is missing!
  408. eevvoor AI quantum super hyper ulta mega cool secure and safe encryption
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  410. eevvoor * with a tiny backdoor for the five eyes and friendz
  411. edhelas they didn't even used the latest Gajim release with the nice UI changes
  412. Daniel I think the video is fairly old
  413. Daniel I don't really understand what the video is supposed to tell us
  414. flow yeah
  415. flow ausis don't wear shoes at home?
  416. edhelas I'm disappointed that they didn't used Matrix in the end
  417. edhelas maybe we can complete the https://xmpp.org/uses/social.html page :D
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  419. eevvoor knows why they did not use matrix. XD
  420. şişio > eevvoor wrote: > eevvoor knows why they did not use matrix. XD Why?
  421. eevvoor quality ...
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  423. edhelas because the FBI would only be able to arrest 16 guys and not 800
  424. moparisthebest XMPP: trusted by thousands of criminals
  425. moparisthebest FBI: violates copyright over 12,000 times!
  426. eevvoor We need good lawyers.
  427. eevvoor This should be a gold mine.
  428. Zash That's an odd spelling for "marketing department"
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  430. eevvoor Daniel, be prepared to be rich.
  431. eevvoor XD
  432. edhelas hopefully they didn't used the name Jabber
  433. edhelas Cisco Lawyers Department enter the chat
  434. moparisthebest we probably don't want them in here... :)
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  437. şişio I am scary
  438. şişio ...
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  441. eevvoor :D
  442. mdosch > I am scary > ... Your avatar doesn't scare me. 😜
  443. şişio 😂
  444. mdosch Probably you meant 'I am scared.'
  445. eevvoor No.
  446. mdosch Never!
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  449. eevvoor He wants to be scary in order to protect XMPP 🤣️
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  453. mdosch Don't violate the license with your five eyes forks or şişio will come after you!
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  455. şişio 😂😂
  456. eevvoor 🤣️☠️
  457. rion 🤯
  458. moparisthebest wonder what server they used
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  460. edhelas moparisthebest I'll be on ejabberd
  461. wladmis has joined
  462. edhelas *bet
  463. moparisthebest what server would like to advertise "trusted by the FBI for their stings"
  464. edhelas Maybe we can ask the FBI to do a nice presentation for the next CCC ?
  465. Andrzej has joined
  466. moparisthebest special invitation to the next XMPP Summit ?
  467. eevvoor me too edhelas
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  469. deuill The real question is, did they leave federation on?
  470. moparisthebest why not, maybe they caught some Conversations users too?
  471. deuill It being a federal network
  472. edhelas and the second real question is, did they also get spammed by russian bots ?
  473. Menel It is possible they would attend. ~propaganda~ PR to be "hip" and attract qualified computer specialists
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  476. jonas’ the third real question: Did they do it right, or did they accidentally overwrite the OMEMO node name breaking interop?
  477. moparisthebest the video shows it working with gajim, so I'd guess they did it right ?
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  479. deuill Jokes aside, this is probably a good example of how simple XMPP is to operationalize and scale, and how easy it is to extend the app ecosystem with additional functionality.
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  481. deuill I'm guessing the encryption itself wasn't compromised, but the app (having access to the plain-text) would simply forward discussions as they were received.
  482. eevvoor deuill, that is why I meant Matrix was not used.
  483. moparisthebest deuill, it explicitly says that's what happened (they also encrypted to a master key the FBI had)
  484. eevvoor Because XMPP is easily extendable and adjustable which Matrix does not allow.
  485. edhelas eevvoor yes but "everything in XMPP is XML and there is hundreds of XEPs !!!"
  486. eevvoor yeah terrible!
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  488. eevvoor we are so unhip and oldschool and grey that even the FBI likes our stuf ::D
  489. deuill It'd be interesting to learn what the operational aspects of this were -- I wouldn't be surprised if they just ran this on some modest, single-node ejabberd setup.
  490. edhelas eevvoor so unhype that even IBM is now interested to invest money in XMPP
  491. eevvoor no, on an ultrasingled core single-node ejabberd out-of-the-box installation ;-D
  492. edhelas on a RPI
  493. eevvoor edhelas, exactly, you got it.
  494. eevvoor on Rasp I perhaps XD
  495. moparisthebest they said only 12,000 phones and 27 million messages ?
  496. edhelas easy
  497. edhelas that could fit on a cheap 20€/month server
  498. moparisthebest ejabberd handled 10 million devices sending 2 billion messages per day back in 2019 https://www.process-one.net/blog/ejabberd-nintendo-switch-npns/
  499. edhelas I'm more wondering if they actually had a network of servers
  500. eevvoor HPC
  501. eevvoor HPC cluster
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  526. mdosch > Jokes aside, this is probably a good example of how simple XMPP is to operationalize and scale, and how easy it is to extend the app ecosystem with additional functionality. Just skimmed through and I thought they simply had a bad server used for their app which added an omemo id so they could read all messages. Did they do more? I'm only on mobile now so I didn't dig deeper.
  527. eevvoor mdosch, the same method you descibe was used for whatsapp, so yeah, why not reuse it? possible. likely.
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  682. şişio What is the result?
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  777. eevvoor the police can read vai the extra key.
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  781. eevvoor şişio‎ the trick is just that people do not check their keys. If they do, the problem does not occur.
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  783. eevvoor So it is a trick on the people not on the technique.
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  786. eevvoor And not on the encryption.
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  800. jonas’ or maybe they just patched that out and/or hardcoded the key into the app
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  802. eevvoor An English Talk tomorrow 18 CEST online in the Berlin Meetup: https://mov.im/?node/pubsub.movim.eu/berlin-xmpp-meetup/acb235de-69bf-470f-8c5d-c7984f636d6c . Topic: Curated list of XMPP servers.
  803. jonas’ (I would’ve done the latter I guess)
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  805. eevvoor that would be really laughing at the people :D. You can hardly call it encryption then. :D Thats why FLOSS is so important - review, review, review the code.
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  809. eevvoor emus and melvo will give the talk. We are happy if *you* join. 😀️
  810. moparisthebest mdosch, at a glance the court document says "master key" so I assume backdoored client
  811. moparisthebest much easier than writing a server module
  812. jonas’ eevvoor, as if anyone ever does that (reviewing the code)
  813. eevvoor 🍻️ drinking beer after the talk is a requirement to join. Virtual beer.
  814. jonas’ moparisthebest, more importantly, more reliable
  815. jonas’ eevvoor, oh, good to know, then I won’t appear :)
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  817. eevvoor perfect :)
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  826. mdosch eevvoor: What is a virtual beer? I want it physically!
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  829. eevvoor yours is physical, the ones from the others is virtual
  830. mdosch Good. 😃
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  833. şişio I hate beer
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  850. mdosch Poor guy. Efes is tasty.
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  889. John I'm thinking about Teleportation XEP
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  892. mdosch Teleport whom to where and how?
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  897. John Anywhere
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  900. moparisthebest John, https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0183.html
  901. emus moparisthebest: I think that was one of the possibly best answers
  902. Zash Don't you know telepathy is a series of tubes? https://telepathy.freedesktop.org/xmpp/tubes.html
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  910. L29Ah tubes huh
  911. John "Telepathy, direct transference of thought from one person"
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  913. L29Ah i wonder if there's a working collaborative text editing solution that's not webshit these days
  914. John I want to teleport myself not my thoughts
  915. L29Ah John: so did you solve the Theseus paradox?
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  921. John L29Ah: I never heard about it, I will look but I don't promise that I'll solve it
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  925. John But I read that quantum teleportation is possible now
  926. Zash https://xkcd.com/465/
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  940. moparisthebest John: if you can teleport your mind anywhere, you don't even need a body at all
  941. John moparisthebest: I agree
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  975. John moparisthebest: when you teleport with your body https://m.imgur.com/gallery/zFMFzlW
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  999. L29Ah John: If you're seeing this message, that means JavaScript has been disabled on your browser, please enable JS to make Imgur work.
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  1008. John L29Ah, https://i.imgur.com/zFMFzlW.mp4
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