XSF Discussion - 2021-07-26


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  3. wuuko https://xmpp.org/community/security-notices/vulnerability-in-xmpp-server-dialback-implementations.html Nothing every app is %100 secure
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  60. emus Ge0rG: if you give me some hints I can update this sections
  61. emus Ge0rG: if you give me some hints I can update this section
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  74. Ge0rG emus: I'm sorry, I'm missing context
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  76. emus Ge0rG: once you said you planned to update the cve section on the xsf website
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  106. Ge0rG emus: I'm not sure. I think I was interested in some tooling for extracting the <cve/> items from XEPs into a central place, but didn't do anything about it
  107. emus So otherwise all cve are listed in the xeps?
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  110. Ge0rG emus: that was the idea behind my PR
  111. emus Okay, but my question was actually where is this information listed right now?
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  114. Ge0rG emus: a start has been done with https://github.com/xsf/xeps/pull/1055
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  117. emus So now people need to upgrade their xeps?
  118. emus Ge0rG: And still. apart from your good work - where have the CVEs been listed before, also in the xeps but without automation?
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  130. emus Ge0rG: And still, apart from your good work - where have the CVEs been listed before, also in the xeps but without automation?
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  163. Ge0rG emus: I think there was only one or two CVEs mentioned in XEPs before. Some are listed on the wiki, others are just tribal knowledge
  164. Ge0rG emus: with the new <cve/> element, somebody could open PRs against the different XEPs that were "hit" before
  165. Ge0rG Like some of the CVEs I added to https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0280.html#security also affect XEP-0313
  166. edhelas I find surprising to add client related CVE into XEPs no ?
  167. edhelas like Monal and Dino for this PR
  168. Ge0rG edhelas: yes, that point was also brought up.
  169. edhelas ok :)
  170. Ge0rG edhelas: I think the fact that over a dozen clients all made the same error when implementing a XEP warrants a mention in the XEP.
  171. edhelas yup, i'm one of the faulty dev :p
  172. edhelas "it was just a forgotten if case"
  173. Ge0rG And given that XEPs are our major publishing mechanism, I thouht it wouldn't hurt too much to have it there.
  174. emus > Ge0rG escribió: > edhelas: I think the fact that over a dozen clients all made the same error when implementing a XEP warrants a mention in the XEP. I would agree with this. I think its okay to make clear that it happened in a particular implementation where other can learn from and I think this is valuable already
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  227. phryk BTW does OMEMO "just" do double-ratchet encryption or does it do the "Signal Protocol" (fair warning: I'm not entirely sure what the difference is)
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  235. yushyin it is an adaptation of the signal protocol, besides the double ratchet you also have the x3dh key protocol and also the xeddsa/vxeddsa signature schemes. alle three mentioned in the XEP
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  237. yushyin you may also find the audit insightful/informative https://conversations.im/omemo/audit.pdf
  238. Zash https://xmpp.org/extensions/attic/xep-0384-0.3.0.html (the version in use) talks about SignalProtocol a bunch.
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  255. phryk Thanks. :)
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  258. Ellenor Malik phryk: Hello!
  259. phryk Ellenor Malik, Hello indeed. Do we already know each other? :)
  260. Ellenor Malik No. I'd like to dm you however
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  263. phryk Sure, go ahead. But if you have XMPP-specific questions you'll probably get more useful answers if you post in here. :)
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  403. wuuko https://upload.jabberfr.org/TLC9JXTlV_RaRgB5/Screenshot_20210726-202758.jpg
  404. wuuko Do I need to enter my account password?
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  407. wgreenhouse wuuko: why ask here?
  408. Zash Looks like they have a captcha you need to solve to proceed.
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  414. wuuko > Zash wrote: > Looks like they have a captcha you need to solve to proceed. İt says "Enter password"
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  417. wuuko > wgreenhouse wrote: > wuuko: why ask here? Where do I have to ask?
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  421. Menel People from jabber.ru. but its not the job of the people here to find it out where that may be.
  422. Zash Do you understand "to unblock (the messages) visit <link>" ?
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  427. chronosx88 > İt says "Enter password" where it says "Enter password"?
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  429. Zash The gray bar at the bottom
  430. wuuko > Zash wrote: > The gray bar at the bottom Yes
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  432. chronosx88 so, why are you asking here?
  433. wuuko Ok.
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  446. Zash chronosx88, while I agree it's not the optimal place for user support like this, where else?
  447. Zash Hrm. When I try this with Conversations, I don't even see that captcha message.
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  451. chronosx88 > chronosx88, while I agree it's not the optimal place for user support like this, where else? I think community room on jabber.ru
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  453. Zash That also seems to have a captcha
  454. wuuko > chronosx88 wrote: > I think community room on jabber.ru jr
  455. wuuko Yes yes ru
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  579. bung9 I switched new account
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  611. bung9 > Old messages disappear when you change passwords
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  619. bung9 Yes, this is true. I think bad.
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  621. bung9 "unauthorized"
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  623. me9 Didn't you see all the people telling you not to ask here already? Find another chat. Like on search.jabber.network
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  625. me9 Didn't you see all the people telling you not to ask here already? Find another chat. Like on https://search.jabber.network
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  628. Zash ISTR someone on the Board saying it's okay to ask XMPP-related questions here.
  629. Zash All that seems to be misunderstandings about the captcha used. Switching account will not help with that.
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  632. bung9 > Zash wrote: > All that seems to be misunderstandings about the captcha used. Switching account will not help with that. No, I couldn't log in to the account when I changed the password. I am %100 sure password is true
  633. bung9 Try it if you want, it'll be like I said
  634. Zash Changed the password where?
  635. me9 > Zash wrote: > ISTR someone on the Board saying it's okay to ask XMPP-related questions here. Ok then.
  636. bung9 https://upload.jabberfr.org/lotbVJP-uNUKmQCN/Screenshot_20210727-003535.jpg
  637. bung9 Parola= password
  638. Zash The thing earlier did not want you to enter a password, that seems to be some bug or mistake. You needed to click the link and fill in the captha to proceed.
  639. Menel I tried it before. The password part will show up after a while if one clicks the link and goes back to the conversation app.
  640. bung9 > Menel wrote: > I tried it before. The password part will show up after a while if one clicks the link and goes back to the conversation app. Which link?
  641. bung9 I've tried twice, I can't get into the account
  642. me9 bung9: Does the old password work?
  643. bung9 > me9 wrote: > bung9: Does the old password work? No
  644. Menel The captcha
  645. bung9 He says it's unauthorized.
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  648. me9 Then the password has to be wrong.
  649. bung9 https://upload.jabberfr.org/lQyWOK6qmrGgQ0j0/Screenshot_20210727-004038.jpg
  650. bung9 Here
  651. Menel Again: first leave the channel! Then: 1. Joint that channel again 2. Click the link 3. Fill the correct capcha 4 go back and you are in
  652. bung9 I tried 30 seconds ago.
  653. Menel If you don't fill it correct it will have this "password" and you can't join
  654. Menel Ok so thats a different topic. You can join your own server anymore. You need to contact your server admin. We don't know your password
  655. bung9 > I wrote: > I tried 30 seconds ago. Yetkisiz
  656. Menel Ok so thats a different topic. You can not join your own server anymore. You need to contact your server admin. We don't know your password
  657. bung9 Is it the same with everyone I meet?
  658. Menel I don't understand
  659. bung9 Right now, I'm logged in with the old password. Not entered with new password
  660. bung9 İf I change password, "yetkisiz" unauthorized
  661. BASSGOD has joined
  662. Menel Then don't change?
  663. me9 Didn't you just say the old password didn't work?
  664. bung9 Not good if we have to change it
  665. Zash If you post your password in public you definitively should change it.
  666. bung9 > me9 wrote: > Didn't you just say the old password didn't work? I don't get it eitherI don't get it either.
  667. bung9 > Zash wrote: > If you post your password in public you definitively should change it. yes
  668. bung9 > Zash wrote: > If you post your password in public you definitively should change it. Yes
  669. bung9 > Zash wrote: > If you post your password in public you definitively should change it. It broke down while changing
  670. jl4 has joined
  671. Menel Try again via the "change password" button.
  672. Zash Note that changing the password in the app might not change it in the account.
  673. bung9 > Zash wrote: > Note that changing the password in the app might not change it in the account. Opening a new account seems to make sense.
  674. emus has left
  675. bung9 Is what I'm going through normal?
  676. emus has joined
  677. me9 Nope.
  678. me9 But in the case of something crashing during password change, errors are to be expected.
  679. bung9 It's not a big deal. I can switch to a new account.
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  688. phryk OMEMO is the only XMPP E2EE solution that works for file transfers, MUCs and A/V chat, right?
  689. bung9 > I wrote: > It's not a big deal. I can switch to a new account. I don't think there's any other way.
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  692. mathieui phryk: "omemo file transfer" is a hack that has nothing to do with omemo, OX should work in MUCs, and I don't know if there are efforts to replicate the omemo call signing, but the calls are otherwise E2EE anyway, you just lack the trust part
  693. phryk mathieui, nothing to do with omemo? it's not using the same cryptographic protocol?
  694. phryk and by calls being E2EE anyways, I assume you mean there's and end-to-end TLS session?
  695. Zash SRTP or ZRTP or whatsitcalled
  696. phryk Sounds like TLS to me. :)
  697. phryk Also, what's OX? never heard of it before this.
  698. jl4 has left
  699. Menel phryk: its pgp in the core.
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  701. phryk Menel, got any source? can find nothing mentioning OX or PGP in the RFCs mentioned on xmpp.org…
  702. Sam OX is an XEP, not an RFC.
  703. Menel Its the new pgp. An older legacy one exists too. https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0373.html
  704. Menel And 374
  705. phryk Ooooh OX = Openpgp for Xmpp m)
  706. mathieui phryk: "omemo file transfer" is really "aes-encrypted http upload files with custom aesgcm:// links and the key as part of the URL, with that link sent inside an omemo session"
  707. Menel The old one still in use: https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0027.html
  708. mathieui Nothing omemo specific there
  709. phryk Huh, and was there never an XEP for adding OTR support to clients to begin with or was it just removed?
  710. Menel The only omemo part is the key sharing in the message.
  711. BASSGOD has left
  712. Menel That one? https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0364.html#intro > Huh, and was there never an XEP for adding OTR support to clients to begin with or was it just removed?
  713. phryk Yeah, but that's the only way to handle multi-device recipients without uploading once for every receiving key…
  714. Zash Menel, OTR is something you just do over whatever transport. There never was any negotiation for it other than OTR itself.
  715. Menel I see. Thats why I didn't find the historical xep
  716. Zash This has its pros and cons. It doesn't fit into XMPP very well, but it also works trough arbitrarily chained gateways, transports and bridges.
  717. phryk Yes, that one. just wasn't shown by default and I thought "deferred" was in the default selection^^
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  723. phryk https://paste.xinu.at/ZqX54A/rmd I'm currently writing a text about XMPP – this is part of it dealing with E2EE – please tell me if anything is heinously wrong with it. ^^;
  724. phryk context: it's supposed to become a somewhat detailed explanation of some key features of XMPP and its ecosystem for non-techie lefties
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  735. moparisthebest Seems fine, and applicable to right handed people too?
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  737. phryk Thanks, also you're the second person making that joke today. :P
  738. phryk also also, don't i know you from fedi?
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  740. uhoreg You may want to explain what you mean by "plausible deniability".
  741. phryk good point. :)