XSF Discussion - 2021-08-06


  1. marc0s has left
  2. marc0s has joined
  3. adiaholic has joined
  4. adiaholic has left
  5. debacle has left
  6. pjn has left
  7. marc0s has left
  8. marc0s has joined
  9. LNJ has left
  10. adiaholic has joined
  11. adiaholic has left
  12. lskdjf has left
  13. soundconcept has joined
  14. soundconcept has left
  15. soundconcept has joined
  16. soundconcept has left
  17. soundconcept has joined
  18. soundconcept has left
  19. soundconcept has joined
  20. soundconcept has left
  21. soundconcept has joined
  22. alexbay218 has joined
  23. soundconcept has left
  24. soundconcept has joined
  25. soundconcept has left
  26. soundconcept has joined
  27. soundconcept has left
  28. soundconcept has joined
  29. adiaholic has joined
  30. soundconcept has left
  31. soundconcept has joined
  32. soundconcept has left
  33. soundconcept has joined
  34. adiaholic has left
  35. soundconcept has left
  36. soundconcept has joined
  37. soundconcept has left
  38. soundconcept has joined
  39. adiaholic has joined
  40. Server Stats Discoverer (traveler bot) has left
  41. Rixon 👁🗨 has left
  42. Half-Shot has left
  43. Matthew has left
  44. uhoreg has left
  45. homebeach has left
  46. Server Stats Discoverer (traveler bot) has joined
  47. Half-Shot has joined
  48. Matthew has joined
  49. Rixon 👁🗨 has joined
  50. uhoreg has joined
  51. homebeach has joined
  52. karoshi has left
  53. adiaholic has left
  54. soundconcept has left
  55. soundconcept has joined
  56. soundconcept has left
  57. soundconcept has joined
  58. soundconcept has left
  59. soundconcept has joined
  60. soundconcept has left
  61. soundconcept has joined
  62. soundconcept has left
  63. soundconcept has joined
  64. soundconcept has left
  65. soundconcept has joined
  66. soundconcept has left
  67. soundconcept has joined
  68. wladmis has left
  69. soundconcept has left
  70. soundconcept has joined
  71. soundconcept has left
  72. soundconcept has joined
  73. soundconcept has left
  74. soundconcept has joined
  75. soundconcept has left
  76. soundconcept has joined
  77. soundconcept has left
  78. soundconcept has joined
  79. soundconcept has left
  80. soundconcept has joined
  81. soundconcept has left
  82. soundconcept has joined
  83. soundconcept has left
  84. soundconcept has joined
  85. soundconcept has left
  86. soundconcept has joined
  87. soundconcept has left
  88. soundconcept has joined
  89. soundconcept has left
  90. soundconcept has joined
  91. wladmis has joined
  92. Calvin has left
  93. soundconcept has left
  94. soundconcept has joined
  95. soundconcept has left
  96. soundconcept has joined
  97. soundconcept has left
  98. soundconcept has joined
  99. soundconcept has left
  100. soundconcept has joined
  101. adiaholic has joined
  102. soundconcept has left
  103. adiaholic has left
  104. alexbay218 has left
  105. adiaholic has joined
  106. stp has left
  107. pasdesushi has left
  108. scorch has left
  109. arc has left
  110. arc has joined
  111. arc has left
  112. arc has joined
  113. Server Stats Discoverer (traveler bot) has left
  114. Rixon 👁🗨 has left
  115. Half-Shot has left
  116. Matthew has left
  117. uhoreg has left
  118. homebeach has left
  119. Server Stats Discoverer (traveler bot) has joined
  120. Half-Shot has joined
  121. Matthew has joined
  122. Rixon 👁🗨 has joined
  123. uhoreg has joined
  124. homebeach has joined
  125. arc has left
  126. adiaholic has left
  127. arc has joined
  128. arcxi has left
  129. chronosx88 has left
  130. adiaholic has joined
  131. scorch has joined
  132. Yagiza has joined
  133. arc has left
  134. arc has joined
  135. arc has left
  136. arc has joined
  137. Kev has left
  138. Kev has joined
  139. Mikaela has left
  140. mukt2 has left
  141. alexbay218 has joined
  142. lorddavidiii has joined
  143. jgart has joined
  144. mukt2 has joined
  145. DebXWoody has joined
  146. DebXWoody has left
  147. alex11 has joined
  148. paul has left
  149. neshtaxmpp has left
  150. hnsr.q has left
  151. marc0s has left
  152. marc0s has joined
  153. Server Stats Discoverer (traveler bot) has left
  154. homebeach has left
  155. Rixon 👁🗨 has left
  156. Matthew has left
  157. Half-Shot has left
  158. uhoreg has left
  159. Server Stats Discoverer (traveler bot) has joined
  160. Half-Shot has joined
  161. Matthew has joined
  162. Rixon 👁🗨 has joined
  163. uhoreg has joined
  164. homebeach has joined
  165. ti_gj06 has joined
  166. hnsr.q has joined
  167. neshtaxmpp has joined
  168. arc has left
  169. arc has joined
  170. arc has left
  171. arc has joined
  172. hnsr.q has left
  173. govanify has left
  174. govanify has joined
  175. ti_gj06 has left
  176. paul has joined
  177. xutaxkamay has left
  178. raghavgururajan has joined
  179. hnsr.q has joined
  180. xutaxkamay has joined
  181. govanify has left
  182. govanify has joined
  183. Bung has joined
  184. wladmis has left
  185. adiaholic has left
  186. adiaholic has joined
  187. mukt2 has left
  188. emus has joined
  189. mukt2 has joined
  190. arc has left
  191. arc has joined
  192. govanify has left
  193. govanify has joined
  194. andrey.g has left
  195. ti_gj06 has joined
  196. arc has left
  197. arc has joined
  198. govanify has left
  199. govanify has joined
  200. hnsr.q has left
  201. jcbrand has joined
  202. wendy has left
  203. mukt2 has left
  204. adiaholic has left
  205. hnsr.q has joined
  206. adiaholic has joined
  207. govanify has left
  208. govanify has joined
  209. adiaholic has left
  210. adiaholic has joined
  211. Menel has joined
  212. lorddavidiii has left
  213. Kev has left
  214. Kev has joined
  215. govanify has left
  216. govanify has joined
  217. adiaholic has left
  218. Bung has left
  219. mukt2 has joined
  220. adiaholic has joined
  221. arc has left
  222. arc has joined
  223. ti_gj06 has left
  224. arc has left
  225. arc has joined
  226. govanify has left
  227. adiaholic has left
  228. nyco has left
  229. jgart has left
  230. mukt2 has left
  231. jgart has joined
  232. adiaholic has joined
  233. nyco has joined
  234. goffi has joined
  235. hamish has joined
  236. me9 has joined
  237. karoshi has joined
  238. LNJ has joined
  239. Alex has joined
  240. hamish has left
  241. adiaholic has left
  242. goffi has left
  243. goffi has joined
  244. hamish has joined
  245. adiaholic has joined
  246. xecks has left
  247. hamish has left
  248. adiaholic has left
  249. adiaholic has joined
  250. mukt2 has joined
  251. goffi has left
  252. Mikaela has joined
  253. adiaholic has left
  254. xecks has joined
  255. alexbay218 has left
  256. adiaholic has joined
  257. antranigv has joined
  258. pasdesushi has joined
  259. goffi has joined
  260. mukt2 has left
  261. arcxi has joined
  262. chronosx88 has joined
  263. Tobias has left
  264. ti_gj06 has joined
  265. debacle has joined
  266. hnsr.q has left
  267. lskdjf has joined
  268. hnsr.q has joined
  269. ti_gj06 has left
  270. Wojtek has joined
  271. stp has joined
  272. ti_gj06 has joined
  273. mukt2 has joined
  274. stp has left
  275. Tobias has joined
  276. adiaholic has left
  277. adiaholic has joined
  278. Alex has left
  279. Alex has joined
  280. scorch has left
  281. mukt2 has left
  282. stp has joined
  283. adiaholic has left
  284. adiaholic has joined
  285. hnsr.q has left
  286. jgart has left
  287. hnsr.q has joined
  288. adiaholic has left
  289. adiaholic has joined
  290. adiaholic has left
  291. wladmis has joined
  292. adiaholic has joined
  293. arc has left
  294. werw0lf has left
  295. werw0lf has joined
  296. adiaholic has left
  297. debacle has left
  298. wladmis has left
  299. inky has left
  300. adiaholic has joined
  301. ti_gj06 has left
  302. hamish has joined
  303. ti_gj06 has joined
  304. debacle has joined
  305. jgart has joined
  306. eevvoor has joined
  307. goffi has left
  308. jl4 has joined
  309. adiaholic has left
  310. jl4 has left
  311. jl4 has joined
  312. jl4 has left
  313. jl4 has joined
  314. adiaholic has joined
  315. lorddavidiii has joined
  316. jl4 has left
  317. jl4 has joined
  318. wendy has joined
  319. lorddavidiii has left
  320. lorddavidiii has joined
  321. mukt2 has joined
  322. lorddavidiii has left
  323. jl4 has left
  324. lorddavidiii has joined
  325. lovetox has left
  326. jl4 has joined
  327. lorddavidiii has left
  328. adiaholic has left
  329. lorddavidiii has joined
  330. lorddavidiii has left
  331. jl4 has left
  332. jl4 has joined
  333. adiaholic has joined
  334. lorddavidiii has joined
  335. jl4 has left
  336. jl4 has joined
  337. lorddavidiii has left
  338. jl4 has left
  339. jl4 has joined
  340. stp has left
  341. lorddavidiii has joined
  342. jl4 has left
  343. jl4 has joined
  344. lorddavidiii has left
  345. adiaholic has left
  346. jl4 has left
  347. jl4 has joined
  348. lorddavidiii has joined
  349. lorddavidiii has left
  350. lorddavidiii has joined
  351. lorddavidiii has left
  352. wladmis has joined
  353. lorddavidiii has joined
  354. lorddavidiii has left
  355. adiaholic has joined
  356. lorddavidiii has joined
  357. marc0s has left
  358. marc0s has joined
  359. scorch has joined
  360. lorddavidiii has left
  361. mukt2 has left
  362. nyco has left
  363. lorddavidiii has joined
  364. lorddavidiii has left
  365. lorddavidiii has joined
  366. adiaholic has left
  367. lorddavidiii has left
  368. scorch has left
  369. lovetox has joined
  370. wladmis has left
  371. lorddavidiii has joined
  372. lorddavidiii has left
  373. adiaholic has joined
  374. lorddavidiii has joined
  375. nyco has joined
  376. lorddavidiii has left
  377. lorddavidiii has joined
  378. lorddavidiii has left
  379. lorddavidiii has joined
  380. lorddavidiii has left
  381. lorddavidiii has joined
  382. lorddavidiii has left
  383. adiaholic has left
  384. lorddavidiii has joined
  385. adiaholic has joined
  386. Calvin has joined
  387. lorddavidiii has left
  388. scorch has joined
  389. inky has joined
  390. lorddavidiii has joined
  391. jl4 has left
  392. lorddavidiii has left
  393. lorddavidiii has joined
  394. lorddavidiii has left
  395. adiaholic has left
  396. ti_gj06 has left
  397. lorddavidiii has joined
  398. lorddavidiii has left
  399. adiaholic has joined
  400. wladmis has joined
  401. Comet has joined
  402. Comet has left
  403. Comet has joined
  404. Comet has left
  405. Comet has joined
  406. Comet has left
  407. Comet has joined
  408. Comet has left
  409. Comet has joined
  410. Comet has left
  411. Comet has joined
  412. Comet has left
  413. Comet has joined
  414. Comet has left
  415. Comet has joined
  416. Comet has left
  417. Comet has joined
  418. Comet has left
  419. Comet has joined
  420. Comet has left
  421. Comet has joined
  422. Comet has left
  423. Comet has joined
  424. Comet has left
  425. Comet has joined
  426. Comet has left
  427. Comet has joined
  428. Comet has left
  429. Comet has joined
  430. Comet has left
  431. lorddavidiii has joined
  432. Comet has joined
  433. Comet has left
  434. Comet has joined
  435. Comet has left
  436. Comet has joined
  437. Comet has left
  438. Comet has joined
  439. Comet has left
  440. Comet has joined
  441. Comet has left
  442. Comet has joined
  443. Comet has left
  444. scorch has left
  445. Comet has joined
  446. Comet has left
  447. Comet has joined
  448. Comet has left
  449. Comet has joined
  450. Comet has left
  451. Comet has joined
  452. Comet has left
  453. Comet has joined
  454. Comet has left
  455. scorch has joined
  456. Comet has joined
  457. Comet has left
  458. Comet has joined
  459. Comet has left
  460. Comet has joined
  461. Comet has left
  462. Comet has joined
  463. Comet has left
  464. Comet has joined
  465. Comet has left
  466. Comet has joined
  467. Comet has left
  468. Comet has joined
  469. Comet has left
  470. Comet has joined
  471. Comet has left
  472. Comet has joined
  473. Comet has left
  474. Comet has joined
  475. Comet has left
  476. Comet has joined
  477. Comet has left
  478. Comet has joined
  479. Comet has left
  480. Comet has joined
  481. Comet has left
  482. Comet has joined
  483. Comet has left
  484. Comet has joined
  485. Comet has left
  486. lorddavidiii has left
  487. Comet has joined
  488. Comet has left
  489. Comet has joined
  490. Comet has left
  491. Comet has joined
  492. Comet has left
  493. Comet has joined
  494. Comet has left
  495. Comet has joined
  496. Comet has left
  497. Comet has joined
  498. Comet has left
  499. Comet has joined
  500. Comet has left
  501. Kev has left
  502. Kev has joined
  503. Comet has joined
  504. Comet has left
  505. Comet has joined
  506. Comet has left
  507. Comet has joined
  508. Comet has left
  509. Comet has joined
  510. Comet has left
  511. Comet has joined
  512. Comet has left
  513. Comet has joined
  514. Comet has left
  515. Comet has joined
  516. Comet has left
  517. Comet has joined
  518. Comet has left
  519. Comet has joined
  520. Comet has left
  521. Comet has joined
  522. Comet has left
  523. Comet has joined
  524. Comet has left
  525. Comet has joined
  526. Comet has left
  527. Comet has joined
  528. Comet has left
  529. Comet has joined
  530. Comet has left
  531. Comet has joined
  532. Comet has left
  533. Comet has joined
  534. Comet has left
  535. Comet has joined
  536. Comet has left
  537. Comet has joined
  538. Comet has left
  539. Comet has joined
  540. Comet has left
  541. Comet has joined
  542. Comet has left
  543. Comet has joined
  544. Comet has left
  545. Comet has joined
  546. Comet has left
  547. Comet has joined
  548. Comet has left
  549. lorddavidiii has joined
  550. lorddavidiii has left
  551. lorddavidiii has joined
  552. adiaholic has left
  553. adiaholic has joined
  554. Bung has joined
  555. mukt2 has joined
  556. adiaholic has left
  557. papatutuwawa has joined
  558. wladmis has left
  559. adiaholic has joined
  560. adiaholic has left
  561. mukt2 has left
  562. wladmis has joined
  563. goffi has joined
  564. adiaholic has joined
  565. hnsr.q has left
  566. lovetox has left
  567. hnsr.q has joined
  568. wladmis has left
  569. arcxi has left
  570. lovetox has joined
  571. arcxi has joined
  572. goffi has left
  573. govanify has joined
  574. marc0s has left
  575. marc0s has joined
  576. govanify has left
  577. govanify has joined
  578. Alex has left
  579. Alex has joined
  580. govanify has left
  581. govanify has joined
  582. ti_gj06 has joined
  583. wladmis has joined
  584. neshtaxmpp has left
  585. jgart has left
  586. adiaholic has left
  587. govanify has left
  588. govanify has joined
  589. govanify has left
  590. govanify has joined
  591. govanify has left
  592. govanify has joined
  593. Wojtek has left
  594. Tobias has left
  595. Tobias has joined
  596. chronosx88 has left
  597. chronosx88 has joined
  598. adiaholic has joined
  599. govanify has left
  600. govanify has joined
  601. wladmis has left
  602. adiaholic has left
  603. gav has joined
  604. govanify has left
  605. govanify has joined
  606. adiaholic has joined
  607. govanify has left
  608. govanify has joined
  609. govanify has left
  610. govanify has joined
  611. papatutuwawa has left
  612. govanify has left
  613. govanify has joined
  614. eevvoor has left
  615. eevvoor has joined
  616. govanify has left
  617. hnsr.q has left
  618. hnsr.q has joined
  619. sonny has left
  620. sonny has joined
  621. adiaholic has left
  622. govanify has joined
  623. sonny has left
  624. sonny has joined
  625. adiaholic has joined
  626. papatutuwawa has joined
  627. chronosx88 has left
  628. chronosx88 has joined
  629. sebastian has left
  630. sebastian has joined
  631. eevvoor has left
  632. eevvoor has joined
  633. adiaholic has left
  634. lovetox has left
  635. lovetox has joined
  636. adiaholic has joined
  637. vanitasvitae has left
  638. govanify has left
  639. govanify has joined
  640. vanitasvitae has joined
  641. gav has left
  642. adiaholic has left
  643. adiaholic has joined
  644. goffi has joined
  645. govanify has left
  646. xecks has left
  647. xecks has joined
  648. govanify has joined
  649. belong has left
  650. adiaholic has left
  651. govanify has left
  652. govanify has joined
  653. adiaholic has joined
  654. wurstsalat https://spacecloud.one/upload/8914a13e-7b6b-4d73-9ca5-e186310700a4/software_clients.png
  655. hnsr.q has left
  656. raghavgururajan has left
  657. wurstsalat small teaser for the software listing (data was provided by Link Mauve)
  658. Kev That does look quite good, thank you.
  659. emus I think its awesome!
  660. hnsr.q has joined
  661. adiaholic has left
  662. wurstsalat Ge0rG, re compliance levels: wouldn't it be better to have "Basic" instead of "Core"? that way we would have "Core: Basic" instead of "Core: Core"
  663. wladmis has joined
  664. wurstsalat but maybe that depends on Badge design anyway
  665. nyco has left
  666. Kev I think the value in advertising compliance levels is limited, but there we go. Especially self-claimed compliance levels, which are likely to be lies :D
  667. adiaholic has joined
  668. moparisthebest easy to spot though
  669. emus Another question is also if those terms really help newcomers
  670. jl4 has joined
  671. wladmis has left
  672. wladmis has joined
  673. Kev I think, honestly, that they provide little value on that page, but I expect to be in the minority there.
  674. inky has left
  675. goffi has left
  676. nyco has joined
  677. goffi has joined
  678. adiaholic has left
  679. neshtaxmpp has joined
  680. jl4 has left
  681. jl4 has joined
  682. jl4 has left
  683. jl4 has joined
  684. Sam I think the value in badges (even if they're lies) is just to advertise the compliance suites. If one person lies, but another person sees it and says "oh, neat, I want that badge too" and goes and implements a more compatible messenger, that's a win
  685. adiaholic has joined
  686. Ge0rG wurstsalat: "Basic Core" sounds weird as well. I just treated it in a way that "Core Core" becomes just "Core"
  687. jl4 has left
  688. jl4 has joined
  689. jonas’ Core²
  690. Ge0rG jonas’: sounds like Intel marketing
  691. jonas’ my thought exactly :)
  692. jl4 has left
  693. jl4 has joined
  694. jl4 has left
  695. jl4 has joined
  696. jl4 has left
  697. jl4 has joined
  698. wladmis has left
  699. wladmis has joined
  700. jl4 has left
  701. jl4 has joined
  702. hnsr.q has left
  703. chronosx88 has left
  704. chronosx88 has joined
  705. jl4 has left
  706. jl4 has joined
  707. larma I also do see issues with displaying compliance data that way. I'd rather have certain "features" that might not perfectly match compliance suite categories. For example, a client could be A/V advanced compliant when only supporting audio-calls (which also perfectly makes sense if the client is meant to run on a device without a screen suitable for videos) On the other hand, features like "omemo-support" might be more relevant to some users than that a clients is "advanced im compliant". Maybe it makes sense to first get some insights which features would be interesting to users of this page and then display those. I could imagine this can also be done using icons instead of text, so that this won't be displayed as a big list in the end.
  708. jl4 has left
  709. jl4 has joined
  710. hnsr.q has joined
  711. MattJ FWIW I was planning to do something like this
  712. MattJ XEP support isn't really relevant to users at the end of the day
  713. adiaholic has left
  714. Daniel How about displaying the data we have and migrate to better data once we have that
  715. MattJ It's a good baseline - e.g. we probably want to simply not list clients prominently that don't support the basic compliance stuff, it's indicative of incomplete or legacy implementations (Pidgin supports A/V calls and OMEMO...)
  716. wurstsalat Daniel, thanks
  717. Daniel Otherwise we'll never display anything
  718. MattJ I'd rather display nothing than what is currently shown under "compliance"
  719. MattJ As in, just don't show the compliance stuff, but we can use it as a filter
  720. MattJ I'm in no way suggesting delaying this update :)
  721. MattJ Just don't spend all our time debating "Basic" vs "Core Core"
  722. MattJ Because I don't think it's useful information
  723. chronosx88 has left
  724. chronosx88 has joined
  725. mukt2 has joined
  726. MattJ (to end users looking for an IM client)
  727. goffi has left
  728. goffi has joined
  729. wurstsalat yeah, filtering by AV for example could be really useful via checkbox (I could keep that data per item, but hidden)
  730. moparisthebest I'd argue the type of end users who visit xmpp.org to look for an IM client are a different type of user than the average user
  731. MattJ But A/V alone is hard to define... Pidgin does A/V
  732. chronosx88 has left
  733. chronosx88 has joined
  734. wurstsalat but does it do AV 2021 ?
  735. chronosx88 has left
  736. chronosx88 has joined
  737. jl4 has left
  738. jl4 has joined
  739. MattJ Ah there's already an A/V section in the latest compliance suites, I forgot about that
  740. chronosx88 has left
  741. chronosx88 has joined
  742. jl4 has left
  743. jl4 has joined
  744. adiaholic has joined
  745. wladmis has left
  746. chronosx88 has left
  747. chronosx88 has joined
  748. chronosx88 has left
  749. chronosx88 has joined
  750. hnsr.q has left
  751. wurstsalat detecting omemo via doap would be easy as well :)
  752. goffi has left
  753. goffi has joined
  754. Calvin has left
  755. jl4 has left
  756. jl4 has joined
  757. wladmis has joined
  758. mukt2 has left
  759. hnsr.q has joined
  760. belong has joined
  761. antranigv has left
  762. antranigv has joined
  763. hamish has left
  764. ti_gj06 has left
  765. ti_gj06 has joined
  766. adiaholic has left
  767. adiaholic has joined
  768. norkki has left
  769. Tobias has left
  770. Tobias has joined
  771. norkki has joined
  772. norkki has left
  773. norkki has joined
  774. norkki has left
  775. chronosx88 has left
  776. chronosx88 has joined
  777. antranigv has left
  778. adiaholic has left
  779. x51 has joined
  780. adiaholic has joined
  781. norkki has joined
  782. norkki has left
  783. norkki has joined
  784. norkki has left
  785. Calvin has joined
  786. norkki has joined
  787. norkki has left
  788. ti_gj06 has left
  789. norkki has joined
  790. DebXWoody has joined
  791. goffi has left
  792. Vaulor has left
  793. Vaulor has joined
  794. govanify has left
  795. govanify has joined
  796. hnsr.q has left
  797. stp has joined
  798. emus > MattJ escribió: > FWIW I was planning to do something like this > XEP support isn't really relevant to users at the end of the day Yes, and thats why I think - first we should have some recommendation/guidance - second, maybe list XEPs and features in something like a detailed / expandable view What I defintivly disagree about, is again doing nothing, or leave it as it is. I expect almost everyone new to XMPP is asking for at least some orentation . And we should provide this, even we risk outdated or not 100% accurance. I'm sure we will find ways to improve Well, and dont "forget": This a decentral network, I think we have to put *extra* efforts to guide people. This is a downside of federation I think. But it is also not too hard to solve. I think therefore we should have guidance. Details tbd
  799. xsf has left
  800. MattJ You don't need to tell me :)
  801. emus > Daniel escribió: > How about displaying the data we have and migrate to better data once we have that That could be a first step I think. But it is also okay to help with communicating instead of only shown xeps
  802. xsf has joined
  803. emus > MattJ escribió: > You don't need to tell me :) No, I just agreed with you and then continued writing 😅
  804. emus was meant for everyone
  805. emus > wurstsalat escribió: > detecting omemo via doap would be easy as well :) Lets have a call next week maybe to discuss the categories?
  806. adiaholic has left
  807. hnsr.q has joined
  808. adiaholic has joined
  809. jl4 has left
  810. jl4 has joined
  811. jl4 has left
  812. x51 has left
  813. papatutuwawa has left
  814. jl4 has joined
  815. jl4 has left
  816. jl4 has joined
  817. LNJ has left
  818. jl4 has left
  819. jl4 has joined
  820. LNJ has joined
  821. jl4 has left
  822. jl4 has joined
  823. jl4 has left
  824. jl4 has joined
  825. jl4 has left
  826. chronosx88 has left
  827. chronosx88 has joined
  828. jl4 has joined
  829. ti_gj06 has joined
  830. jl4 has left
  831. Kev has left
  832. jl4 has joined
  833. hnsr.q has left
  834. raghavgururajan has joined
  835. jl4 has left
  836. hnsr.q has joined
  837. millesimus Maybe the page should (at first) not aim for the new average user, but for new advanced users: helping the tech-savy but new users to learn on xmpp and to help their less tech-savy contacts.
  838. wurstsalat at the moment I'd like to focus on getting Link Mauve's (and other people's) effort around DOAP on the website. if that's just name, description, and logo for now, that's a first step. once this is running, it's easy to derive and add new categories.
  839. mukt2 has joined
  840. adiaholic has left
  841. nyco has left
  842. adiaholic has joined
  843. lovetox https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-peabody-dispatch-new-uuid-format
  844. lovetox unique sortable ids !!
  845. lovetox we need this for mam :D
  846. MattJ There are a few algorithms around already like this
  847. MattJ Nice to see some standards though
  848. moparisthebest like a simple counter?
  849. lskdjf has left
  850. lskdjf has joined
  851. MattJ Counters are problematic, you have to maintain the state forever (i.e. not unique if you reinstall your server), they don't play well with distributed setups (in XMPP's case that would be any clustered deployment), etc.
  852. adiaholic has left
  853. MattJ So most are based on timestamp + counter
  854. moparisthebest ah yes, I was mainly talking about the abstract: > A common case for modern applications is to create a unique identifier for use as a primary key in a database table.
  855. adiaholic has joined
  856. nyco has joined
  857. emus does anyone have time to check the docker deploying? i dont know why the newsletter does not get published
  858. MattJ I'm not at my laptop right now... possibly later this evening if nobody else figures it out first
  859. MattJ I thought it just worked last time
  860. hnsr.q has left
  861. adiaholic has left
  862. hnsr.q has joined
  863. emus I think I found the error
  864. emus But thanks! I'll let you know
  865. mukt2 has left
  866. hnsr.q has left
  867. Link Mauve wurstsalat, maybe we could sort by compliance suite support, but not display that at all for now.
  868. Link Mauve IIRC that’s what I wanted to do with it.
  869. hnsr.q has joined
  870. debacle has left
  871. wurstsalat Link Mauve, you mean sorting by being compliant to core (core level or advanced level) or not?
  872. adiaholic has joined
  873. jcbrand has left
  874. jcbrand has joined
  875. adiaholic has left
  876. hnsr.q has left
  877. adiaholic has joined
  878. hnsr.q has joined
  879. guus.der.kinderen has joined
  880. wendy has left
  881. wendy has joined
  882. antranigv has joined
  883. goffi has joined
  884. jcbrand has left
  885. jcbrand has joined
  886. werdan has joined
  887. Maranda has left
  888. Bung has left
  889. lorddavidiii has left
  890. Maranda has joined
  891. Maranda has left
  892. Maranda has joined
  893. adiaholic has left
  894. Maranda has left
  895. Maranda has joined
  896. wurstsalat I see now that the data you provided was already sorted (kind of)
  897. wurstsalat https://spacecloud.one/upload/5c0cefec-abec-401f-983c-f41b4fd88a26/software-features.png
  898. hnsr.q has left
  899. wurstsalat example of how it could look with feature labels (AV in Conversations)
  900. adiaholic has joined
  901. Wojtek has joined
  902. hnsr.q has joined
  903. lorddavidiii has joined
  904. adiaholic has left
  905. lorddavidiii has left
  906. lorddavidiii has joined
  907. lorddavidiii has left
  908. lorddavidiii has joined
  909. lorddavidiii has left
  910. adiaholic has joined
  911. ti_gj06 has left
  912. lorddavidiii has joined
  913. lorddavidiii has left
  914. lorddavidiii has joined
  915. lorddavidiii has left
  916. papatutuwawa has joined
  917. lorddavidiii has joined
  918. antranigv has left
  919. antranigv has joined
  920. lorddavidiii has left
  921. lorddavidiii has joined
  922. lorddavidiii has left
  923. inky has joined
  924. lorddavidiii has joined
  925. antranigv has left
  926. govanify has left
  927. govanify has joined
  928. govanify has left
  929. govanify has joined
  930. belong has left
  931. eta has left
  932. eta has joined
  933. mukt2 has joined
  934. debacle has joined
  935. antranigv has joined
  936. MattJ wurstsalat, what if you used something like https://matthewwild.co.uk/uploads/check-core.svg and https://matthewwild.co.uk/uploads/check-advanced.svg in those badges?
  937. alexbay218 has joined
  938. Sam huh, neither of those render on my machine. Time to dig into SVG weirdness I suppose.
  939. Sam oooh, or they do, but Firefox sticks them over a white background by default. Good job Firefox.
  940. wurstsalat Sam, Inkscape displays them fine
  941. wurstsalat same in Chrome
  942. antranigv has left
  943. Sam Even in inkscape I thought they were broien for a moment
  944. wurstsalat MattJ, I'll give it a try!
  945. govanify has left
  946. govanify has joined
  947. werdan has left
  948. raghavgururajan has left
  949. govanify has left
  950. govanify has joined
  951. raghavgururajan has joined
  952. wurstsalat https://spacecloud.one/upload/c61dcd6d-4f1b-4557-8952-013e2b7eaa8b/software-av.png
  953. wgreenhouse has left
  954. wurstsalat MattJ, ^
  955. govanify has left
  956. govanify has joined
  957. belong has joined
  958. antranigv has joined
  959. Link Mauve wurstsalat, yes, the JSON is currently sorted by existence of a DOAP file first, then alphabetically.
  960. Link Mauve I’m open to changes there.
  961. Link Mauve Such as advertising clients with audio/video support first, or something like that.
  962. mukt2 has left
  963. wurstsalat sounds like a good start so prioritize those with a doap file. I guess all clients supplying a doap file also have minimum Core Core :)
  964. wurstsalat s/so/to
  965. Sam As previously stated: I disagree. Having a doap file is not a good indicator of anything except a willingness to dig through XML schemas.
  966. Link Mauve Core core is quite easy to reach, implement the 6120 RFC (not even 6121 so you don’t need to support e.g. retrieving the roster), TLS, disco and caps, that’s it.
  967. Sam And the use of a static site generator that can easily generate XML or the willingness to hand-roll XML.
  968. ti_gj06 has joined
  969. Link Mauve Sam, aside from you, I haven’t heard of any request for a generator so far, given most of the burden will be in maintaining the list of the features you support, not in copy/pasting the initial version from another project.
  970. Link Mauve And we already went through that on list, there was no other opposition to DOAP-the-format either.
  971. Sam We've been through this. I already have a list, but no easy way to convert them to doap and I don't want to maintain two lists and two sets of tooling. I also do not want to just copy/paste. I've tried that and ended up with broken stuff before.
  972. adiaholic has left
  973. Sam I still think we shouldn't use it at all, but this is a different thing: should it be an indicator of higher quality software that needs to be displayed at the top, and I'm saying the answer is "no".
  974. Link Mauve Which format is your current list in?
  975. sonny has left
  976. sonny has joined
  977. Vaulor has left
  978. Link Mauve Sam, here it isn’t about being intrinsically higher quality, but about providing more information that is useful to the website.
  979. Sam Link Mauve: it's in my static site generators format (I guess it's YAML spread out over a handful of files). There is no way to generate valid XML from the static site generator.
  980. sonny has left
  981. Link Mauve As in, a less terse list than this one: https://xmpp.org/software/clients.html
  982. Sam I mean, I could make up templates that sprintf XML, but that always ends the same way.
  983. sonny has joined
  984. Link Mauve Which is absolutely horrible for new users.
  985. Sam So let me submit a PR to edit my clients bubble or whatever with the info, I don't see why we need to try to do some weird machine-readable automation for this and force all clients to use our thing.
  986. antranigv has left
  987. antranigv has joined
  988. Sam But if we do, I definitely don't think "willing to do a bunch of steps the XSF wants" is a good indicator that means the thing should be shown at the top.
  989. Link Mauve Sam, do you also commit to maintain the list at JabberFR, at Wikipedia, at every other website that might want to provide the same data?
  990. wurstsalat Sam, all client cards in my examples are built from the data each doap file provides
  991. Link Mauve It’s not just about the XSF, it is about providin a machine-readable description of the features of your project, of every XMPP project ideally.
  992. Sam Link Mauve: the XSF has no reason to care whether I maintain the list on its website only or on its website and Wikipedia.
  993. Link Mauve No indeed.
  994. Link Mauve But this isn’t about the XSF, it is about XMPP.
  995. Sam That's fine, I still think you're wrong and DOAP is the XSFs usual over engineering, but I'm not trying to restart the argument over using it, I am just arguing that in a world where I'm overruled and we're using it we should also provide a local alternative.
  996. Link Mauve The XSF may use this data on its website, and the feedback I’ve received was generally very favourable to that.
  997. Link Mauve these* data?
  998. adiaholic has joined
  999. Sam "this data" is fine. Data is a group plural or whatever that's called
  1000. Link Mauve Sam, you could propose to extend the xmpp.org JSON if you want.
  1001. Link Mauve I did that with the DOAP URL, right now that’s the only place where DOAP is used at the XSF, in three JSON files.
  1002. Sam What's the xmpp.org JSON? Is it documented anywhere?
  1003. Link Mauve Sam, yes, at https://github.com/xsf/xmpp.org/tree/master/data
  1004. Sam oh yah, this stuff. Let's do that.
  1005. wgreenhouse has joined
  1006. werdan has joined
  1007. Sam I mean, I don't love that either, but sure, if it means we don't only prioritize clients that happen to use certain tooling and who have authors who want to read a bunch of XML stylesheets or whatever then fine.
  1008. Sam schemas rather; doesn't matter.
  1009. Link Mauve I still don’t think it makes sense to duplicate information between the project’s website and xmpp.org, and JabberFR, and Wikipedia, and every other website talking about XMPP stuff.
  1010. Link Mauve And having a single source of truth is easier for everyone.
  1011. Sam I don't disagree with that
  1012. Link Mauve So I’m generally against extending this JSON format, I’d rather remove information duplicated with DOAP (platforms for instance).
  1013. adiaholic has left
  1014. Sam However, not everyone will be able to generate doap so if you're going to do that (even if you used a sane format that I agreed with too, this isn't about doap in particular) not everyone will use the same tooling, or even have control over their website (think auto-generated documentation style things from comments being the only website) so we should also support some way to edit it locally for those people instead of just insisting that everyone use our undocumented data format and assuming they can all do so
  1015. Vaulor has joined
  1016. Link Mauve If a project comes to us about not being able to host a file on their web server, for instance because they don’t have one, I see no issue with hosting it at xmpp.org instead.
  1017. Link Mauve Sam, note that it is now documented, in XEP-0453.
  1018. wurstsalat I'm offering help for every project wanting to create their own doap file
  1019. Link Mauve Same here.
  1020. Sam Okay, that problem is at least solved then. I still think our use of DOAP is an embarassement and we should be ashamed of it, but at least we're not entirely screwing over everyone who can't conform to our tooling
  1021. Sam Thank you for allowing them to be hosted on the XSF's site or wherever.
  1022. Link Mauve (I have no authority on that, besides being a member, mind you.)
  1023. pjn has joined
  1024. Wojtek has left
  1025. Link Mauve If DOAP is good enough for GNOME, CPAN, Pypi, and probably many other collections of projects, I don’t see why we should be ashamed of it here.
  1026. wurstsalat heh, look, there is a generator (for the generic fields at least) https://projects.apache.org/create.html
  1027. wurstsalat and a validator as well
  1028. Zash Didn't I make a tool too? CSV to DOAP is easy
  1029. adiaholic has joined
  1030. Bung has joined
  1031. georgeorwell has left
  1032. hnsr.q has left
  1033. MattJ We already discussed hosting DOAP files in our repo for projects that need that. It's no worse than the current situation, but it's of course better for everyone if project maintainers have direct access to update the file
  1034. hnsr.q has joined
  1035. me9 has left
  1036. mukt2 has joined
  1037. MattJ wurstsalat, I think the icon is an improvement btw, though I'd move it to the left of the text (bikeshedding, I know), thanks for adding it :)
  1038. MattJ Looking forward to getting this deployed
  1039. wurstsalat MattJ, yeah I tried both, not sure :)
  1040. Link Mauve Same, I’m pretty excited this is finally happening!
  1041. papatutuwawa has left
  1042. mukt2 has left
  1043. lorddavidiii has left
  1044. me9 has joined
  1045. sonny has left
  1046. sonny has joined
  1047. belong has left
  1048. disgyze has left
  1049. Pete has joined
  1050. adiaholic has left
  1051. antranigv has left
  1052. antranigv has joined
  1053. stp has left
  1054. Pete Hi, just want to point out that the link to RFC7622 on the Overview page of xmpp.org is giving me 404
  1055. hnsr.q has left
  1056. adiaholic has joined
  1057. DebXWoody has left
  1058. hnsr.q has joined
  1059. stp has joined
  1060. hnsr.q has left
  1061. Yagiza has left
  1062. eevvoor has left
  1063. hnsr.q has joined
  1064. ti_gj06 has left
  1065. Calvin has left
  1066. Link Mauve Pete, thanks for noticing! I proposed this change: https://github.com/xsf/xmpp.org/pull/947
  1067. antranigv has left
  1068. DebXWoody has joined
  1069. Pete Nice! I admit I tried to look thru the repo to see if I could spot an obvious error. I didn't think it would be acceptable to change the links to be offsite
  1070. Link Mauve Pete, I grepped for 7622, and the two other pages linking to this RFC already used that link, so it’s probably fine. :)
  1071. jl4 has joined
  1072. Pete Ah. Seems like linking to ietf directly would be preferable to maintaining a separate list of RFCs anyway, but there must be a reason
  1073. mig has joined
  1074. jl4 has left
  1075. jl4 has joined
  1076. mig has left
  1077. mig has joined
  1078. mig has left
  1079. mig has joined
  1080. mukt2 has joined
  1081. adiaholic has left
  1082. Adi has left
  1083. Adi has joined
  1084. adiaholic has joined
  1085. stp has left
  1086. jl4 has left
  1087. adiaholic has left
  1088. goffi has left
  1089. mukt2 has left
  1090. hnsr.q has left
  1091. werdan has left
  1092. adiaholic has joined
  1093. hnsr.q has joined
  1094. antranigv has joined
  1095. adiaholic has left
  1096. Alex has left
  1097. hnsr.q has left
  1098. stp has joined
  1099. antranigv has left
  1100. hnsr.q has joined
  1101. Alex has joined
  1102. adiaholic has joined
  1103. stp has left
  1104. pjn has left
  1105. marc0s has left
  1106. hnsr.q has left
  1107. pjn has joined
  1108. adiaholic has left
  1109. hnsr.q has joined
  1110. inky has left
  1111. belong has joined
  1112. pjn has left
  1113. pjn has joined
  1114. stp has joined
  1115. jcbrand has left
  1116. adiaholic has joined
  1117. hnsr.q has left
  1118. sonny has left
  1119. sonny has joined
  1120. inky has joined
  1121. hnsr.q has joined
  1122. marc0s has joined
  1123. stp has left
  1124. Vaulor has left
  1125. Vaulor has joined
  1126. adiaholic has left
  1127. pjn has left
  1128. Alex has left
  1129. pjn has joined
  1130. pjn has left
  1131. mukt2 has joined
  1132. hnsr.q has left
  1133. hnsr.q has joined
  1134. antranigv has joined
  1135. Tobias has left
  1136. pjn has joined
  1137. me9 has left
  1138. emus MattJ, I think there is still no deployment 😕
  1139. hnsr.q has left
  1140. mukt2 has left
  1141. debacle has left
  1142. hnsr.q has joined
  1143. LNJ has left
  1144. Menel has left
  1145. Calvin has joined
  1146. pjn has left
  1147. karoshi has left
  1148. pjn has joined
  1149. scorch has left
  1150. Mikaela has left
  1151. mukt2 has joined
  1152. lskdjf has left
  1153. mukt2 has left
  1154. belong has left
  1155. scorch has joined
  1156. marc0s has left
  1157. marc0s has joined
  1158. adiaholic has joined
  1159. Bung has left
  1160. adiaholic has left