XSF Discussion - 2021-09-22


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  88. wurstsalat emus: sorry, I don't understand
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  105. emus wurstsalat: why do filter noch work? static site?
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  108. wurstsalat emus: because they are not implemented. yes, that's a static site
  109. wurstsalat I thought about it: what would you want to filter though
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  125. emus not sure. but maybe the other idea is better: overview + link to site with all rfcs
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  164. dwd There are a lot of ancillary RFCs, internet drafts, and so on. There's also sites which will find (for example) all documents which normatively reference XMPP, which might be rather useful to link. But also closely related RFCs, like RFC 6125, which informatively references XMPP (I think), but is really useful if you want to implement.
  165. dwd wurstsalat, Are you building that site and the text from the BIBXML, BTW?
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  167. wurstsalat dwd not yet, but that's a great idea
  168. wurstsalat I'll try to automate as much as possible
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  180. dwd Idle thought - what do we think the most popular XMPP client is?
  181. Kev Gaim.
  182. Ge0rG for federated XMPP, not just something that's hidden inside a HP printer or something?
  183. Zash https://cerdale.zash.se/s/dsP7mvWV3z4uTYUq/de27679d-51ee-4188-a2d5-b343bdb30ae3.png
  184. dwd Well, I was thinking it's probably either Fortnite or the Nintendo Switch.
  185. Ge0rG dwd: what about GCP?
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  187. dwd For federated consumer chat, I think probably Conversations, yes.
  188. dwd Ge0rG, I don't know if that's still XMPP as such. Otherwise we'd be looking at WhatsApp.
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  190. Ge0rG dwd: https://xmpp.org/uses/internet-of-things/ claims that Google Firebase has billions of installs, but I suppose this is about the target client devices, and Firebase XMPP is limited to source event delivery
  191. Ge0rG According to https://xmpp.org/uses/gaming/ it's Fortnite
  192. Zash So the answer is Google Fortnite Printing
  193. dwd ITYM Google Fortnite Switch
  194. Ge0rG RIP Google
  195. wurstsalat whatsapp claims to have 2 bn users now. xmpp.org still says 800 million. gotta pump those numbers up!
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  197. dwd Yes, but then you get into the philosophical argument over whether WhatsApp is XMPP, XMPP-derived, or nothing like XMPP anymore.
  198. Zash But is it still XMPP??
  199. dwd ... which Zash as ever is more concise with.
  200. Holger Whatever helps with marketing, dammit.
  201. Zash Ah yes, of course. "Start with XMPP and you too can have 2B users in no-time!"
  202. MattJ In recent months I've seen denials from two WhatsApp folk that WhatsApp uses anything like XMPP in any way. And also a reverse engineering that clearly shows that it still is.
  203. MattJ I think at this point "XMPP-derived" is accurate, it's clearly not actual standard XMPP
  204. Zash Looking at the thing Matterbridge uses, I see a pile of protobuf
  205. dwd I don't think they'd recognise it. It's sort of weird WAP compressed XML, except I very much doubt they even treat it as XML anymore. But it does seem to be the same model still.
  206. dwd Zash, That's using the WhatsAppWebb protocol isn't it? Which is different again.
  207. Zash Yes
  208. Holger Right, if those folks are new they maybe just don't know where their tech is coming from?
  209. Ellenor Malik (-:
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  212. Holger Denying they're coming from XMPP would be hard: https://web.archive.org/web/20200205125232/http://lists.jabber.ru/pipermail/ejabberd/2009-June/005027.html
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  222. MattJ Heh
  223. dwd Certainly. But Trigger's Broom and all that. (Or the Ship of Theseus, for non-UK people of a more classical bent). At what point does a system that's been gradually moving from XMPP over time actually cease to be "XMPP-based"?
  224. Zash When Marketing says so, obviously.
  225. dwd Zash, But whose marketing? Ours might say it's XMPP, still, and forever. Facebook's might disagree.
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  227. dwd Obviously we'd win because we can weird RFC 2119, the magical language that warps reality to our choosing. But still.
  228. dwd I meant to type "weild", but weird is good too.
  229. jonas’ oh, a dwd
  230. dwd Possibly wield.
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  232. Zash Verb the weird!
  233. dwd It's cognate with various words meaning "fate", or indeed coercing of same, so quite suitable here.
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  428. Ge0rG MattJ: https://github.com/xsf/xmpp.org/pull/960 is merged but https://xmpp.org/about/compliance-suites-current is 404? am I missing something?
  429. MattJ The website requires manual deployment at the moment
  430. MattJ So probably that
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  433. MattJ Ge0rG, deployed but still 404
  434. Ge0rG Is there an evil typo in my PR?
  435. MattJ Looks okay to me, at a glance
  436. Ge0rG MattJ: reload nginx?
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  439. MattJ It was restarted
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  441. MattJ Hmm, this is a rewrite, not a redirect
  442. Zash isn't that sometimes the same thing?
  443. Ge0rG Oh. But /about/ipr-policy is also a redirect?
  444. MattJ Right, but it's also actual content that nginx is serving
  445. MattJ Extensions are served from another nginx instance
  446. MattJ Just a theory about what might be the cause, nginx logic beats me all the time
  447. Ge0rG me too
  448. MattJ But I suspect it sees that there is no file at the destination and returns 404 instead of a redirect. Presumably one can force a redirect.
  449. Ge0rG but `return 302 ...` won't work because it's not properly scoped
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  451. MattJ I think you just append 'redirect' to the end of the line, I'll test
  452. MattJ Yes, that was it
  453. Ge0rG Perfect, thanks.
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  456. Ge0rG how do I render the new homepage?
  457. Zash Given what?
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  459. Ge0rG given a source checkout
  460. MattJ Run 'hugo' to build HTML files, or 'hugo serve' to run a server
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  462. Zash `make` would tell you
  463. MattJ There's good docs in the README I believe :)
  464. Ge0rG thanks.
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  468. Zash `make serve` builds something for the xep list, then runs `hugo serve` and then http://localhost:1313
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  471. Ge0rG or just `hugo`
  472. Zash What, don't you want magic self-reloading javascript????
  473. emus I thinn it would be best to discuss why we think that someone should start using XMPP for their project/software?
  474. Ge0rG https://github.com/xsf/xmpp.org/pull/972
  475. Link Mauve Ge0rG, you missed XEP-0302.
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  478. Ge0rG Link Mauve: I was following the "supercedes" links, so it's missing there as well
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  482. Link Mauve Ah, I missed it back then then.
  483. Ge0rG Maybe the Editor could fix that?
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  486. Ge0rG Link Mauve: https://github.com/xsf/xmpp.org/pull/972/commits/7ecbbcb8265a22aa4b6fb7fdc750931afa830dc6
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  488. Zash Ge0rG: Any ideas for making the compliance suite link stand out more on https://xmpp.org/extensions/ ? Maybe in some way that fits with https://github.com/xsf/xmpp.org/pull/964
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  566. Link Mauve Ge0rG, https://github.com/xsf/xmpp.org/pull/1108
  567. Zash Page not found. Looking good Github
  568. Link Mauve Ge0rG, https://github.com/xsf/xeps/pull/1108
  569. Link Mauve Sorry.
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  579. Ge0rG Link Mauve: thanks very much!
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  583. Ge0rG Zash: I've thought about that too, but without a clear path forward
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  692. emus Ge0rG: once you suggested a CVE list "thing" maybe now its time for this?
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  700. Ge0rG emus: https://op-co.de/tmp/xep-0280.html#security
  701. Ge0rG Sorry, https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0280.html#security
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  710. emus but you wanted to read those automatically, right?
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