XSF Discussion - 2021-09-22


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  88. wurstsalat

    emus: sorry, I don't understand

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  105. emus

    wurstsalat: why do filter noch work? static site?

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  108. wurstsalat

    emus: because they are not implemented. yes, that's a static site

  109. wurstsalat

    I thought about it: what would you want to filter though

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  125. emus

    not sure. but maybe the other idea is better: overview + link to site with all rfcs

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  164. dwd

    There are a lot of ancillary RFCs, internet drafts, and so on. There's also sites which will find (for example) all documents which normatively reference XMPP, which might be rather useful to link. But also closely related RFCs, like RFC 6125, which informatively references XMPP (I think), but is really useful if you want to implement.

  165. dwd

    wurstsalat, Are you building that site and the text from the BIBXML, BTW?

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  167. wurstsalat

    dwd not yet, but that's a great idea

  168. wurstsalat

    I'll try to automate as much as possible

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  180. dwd

    Idle thought - what do we think the most popular XMPP client is?

  181. Kev

    Gaim.

  182. Ge0rG

    for federated XMPP, not just something that's hidden inside a HP printer or something?

  183. Zash

    https://cerdale.zash.se/s/dsP7mvWV3z4uTYUq/de27679d-51ee-4188-a2d5-b343bdb30ae3.png

  184. dwd

    Well, I was thinking it's probably either Fortnite or the Nintendo Switch.

  185. Ge0rG

    dwd: what about GCP?

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  187. dwd

    For federated consumer chat, I think probably Conversations, yes.

  188. dwd

    Ge0rG, I don't know if that's still XMPP as such. Otherwise we'd be looking at WhatsApp.

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  190. Ge0rG

    dwd: https://xmpp.org/uses/internet-of-things/ claims that Google Firebase has billions of installs, but I suppose this is about the target client devices, and Firebase XMPP is limited to source event delivery

  191. Ge0rG

    According to https://xmpp.org/uses/gaming/ it's Fortnite

  192. Zash

    So the answer is Google Fortnite Printing

  193. dwd

    ITYM Google Fortnite Switch

  194. Ge0rG

    RIP Google

  195. wurstsalat

    whatsapp claims to have 2 bn users now. xmpp.org still says 800 million. gotta pump those numbers up!

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  197. dwd

    Yes, but then you get into the philosophical argument over whether WhatsApp is XMPP, XMPP-derived, or nothing like XMPP anymore.

  198. Zash

    But is it still XMPP??

  199. dwd

    ... which Zash as ever is more concise with.

  200. Holger

    Whatever helps with marketing, dammit.

  201. Zash

    Ah yes, of course. "Start with XMPP and you too can have 2B users in no-time!"

  202. MattJ

    In recent months I've seen denials from two WhatsApp folk that WhatsApp uses anything like XMPP in any way. And also a reverse engineering that clearly shows that it still is.

  203. MattJ

    I think at this point "XMPP-derived" is accurate, it's clearly not actual standard XMPP

  204. Zash

    Looking at the thing Matterbridge uses, I see a pile of protobuf

  205. dwd

    I don't think they'd recognise it. It's sort of weird WAP compressed XML, except I very much doubt they even treat it as XML anymore. But it does seem to be the same model still.

  206. dwd

    Zash, That's using the WhatsAppWebb protocol isn't it? Which is different again.

  207. Zash

    Yes

  208. Holger

    Right, if those folks are new they maybe just don't know where their tech is coming from?

  209. Ellenor Malik

    (-:

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  212. Holger

    Denying they're coming from XMPP would be hard: https://web.archive.org/web/20200205125232/http://lists.jabber.ru/pipermail/ejabberd/2009-June/005027.html

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  222. MattJ

    Heh

  223. dwd

    Certainly. But Trigger's Broom and all that. (Or the Ship of Theseus, for non-UK people of a more classical bent). At what point does a system that's been gradually moving from XMPP over time actually cease to be "XMPP-based"?

  224. Zash

    When Marketing says so, obviously.

  225. dwd

    Zash, But whose marketing? Ours might say it's XMPP, still, and forever. Facebook's might disagree.

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  227. dwd

    Obviously we'd win because we can weird RFC 2119, the magical language that warps reality to our choosing. But still.

  228. dwd

    I meant to type "weild", but weird is good too.

  229. jonas’

    oh, a dwd

  230. dwd

    Possibly wield.

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  232. Zash

    Verb the weird!

  233. dwd

    It's cognate with various words meaning "fate", or indeed coercing of same, so quite suitable here.

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  428. Ge0rG

    MattJ: https://github.com/xsf/xmpp.org/pull/960 is merged but https://xmpp.org/about/compliance-suites-current is 404? am I missing something?

  429. MattJ

    The website requires manual deployment at the moment

  430. MattJ

    So probably that

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  433. MattJ

    Ge0rG, deployed but still 404

  434. Ge0rG

    Is there an evil typo in my PR?

  435. MattJ

    Looks okay to me, at a glance

  436. Ge0rG

    MattJ: reload nginx?

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  439. MattJ

    It was restarted

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  441. MattJ

    Hmm, this is a rewrite, not a redirect

  442. Zash

    isn't that sometimes the same thing?

  443. Ge0rG

    Oh. But /about/ipr-policy is also a redirect?

  444. MattJ

    Right, but it's also actual content that nginx is serving

  445. MattJ

    Extensions are served from another nginx instance

  446. MattJ

    Just a theory about what might be the cause, nginx logic beats me all the time

  447. Ge0rG

    me too

  448. MattJ

    But I suspect it sees that there is no file at the destination and returns 404 instead of a redirect. Presumably one can force a redirect.

  449. Ge0rG

    but `return 302 ...` won't work because it's not properly scoped

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  451. MattJ

    I think you just append 'redirect' to the end of the line, I'll test

  452. MattJ

    Yes, that was it

  453. Ge0rG

    Perfect, thanks.

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  456. Ge0rG

    how do I render the new homepage?

  457. Zash

    Given what?

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  459. Ge0rG

    given a source checkout

  460. MattJ

    Run 'hugo' to build HTML files, or 'hugo serve' to run a server

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  462. Zash

    `make` would tell you

  463. MattJ

    There's good docs in the README I believe :)

  464. Ge0rG

    thanks.

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  468. Zash

    `make serve` builds something for the xep list, then runs `hugo serve` and then http://localhost:1313

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  471. Ge0rG

    or just `hugo`

  472. Zash

    What, don't you want magic self-reloading javascript????

  473. emus

    I thinn it would be best to discuss why we think that someone should start using XMPP for their project/software?

  474. Ge0rG

    https://github.com/xsf/xmpp.org/pull/972

  475. Link Mauve

    Ge0rG, you missed XEP-0302.

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  478. Ge0rG

    Link Mauve: I was following the "supercedes" links, so it's missing there as well

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  482. Link Mauve

    Ah, I missed it back then then.

  483. Ge0rG

    Maybe the Editor could fix that?

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  486. Ge0rG

    Link Mauve: https://github.com/xsf/xmpp.org/pull/972/commits/7ecbbcb8265a22aa4b6fb7fdc750931afa830dc6

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  488. Zash

    Ge0rG: Any ideas for making the compliance suite link stand out more on https://xmpp.org/extensions/ ? Maybe in some way that fits with https://github.com/xsf/xmpp.org/pull/964

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  566. Link Mauve

    Ge0rG, https://github.com/xsf/xmpp.org/pull/1108

  567. Zash

    Page not found. Looking good Github

  568. Link Mauve

    Ge0rG, https://github.com/xsf/xeps/pull/1108

  569. Link Mauve

    Sorry.

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  579. Ge0rG

    Link Mauve: thanks very much!

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  583. Ge0rG

    Zash: I've thought about that too, but without a clear path forward

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  692. emus

    Ge0rG: once you suggested a CVE list "thing" maybe now its time for this?

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  700. Ge0rG

    emus: https://op-co.de/tmp/xep-0280.html#security

  701. Ge0rG

    Sorry, https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0280.html#security

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  710. emus

    but you wanted to read those automatically, right?

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