emus: because they are not implemented. yes, that's a static site
wurstsalat
I thought about it: what would you want to filter though
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emus
not sure. but maybe the other idea is better: overview + link to site with all rfcs
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dwd
There are a lot of ancillary RFCs, internet drafts, and so on. There's also sites which will find (for example) all documents which normatively reference XMPP, which might be rather useful to link. But also closely related RFCs, like RFC 6125, which informatively references XMPP (I think), but is really useful if you want to implement.
dwd
wurstsalat, Are you building that site and the text from the BIBXML, BTW?
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wurstsalat
dwd not yet, but that's a great idea
wurstsalat
I'll try to automate as much as possible
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dwd
Idle thought - what do we think the most popular XMPP client is?
Kev
Gaim.
Ge0rG
for federated XMPP, not just something that's hidden inside a HP printer or something?
Well, I was thinking it's probably either Fortnite or the Nintendo Switch.
Ge0rG
dwd: what about GCP?
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dwd
For federated consumer chat, I think probably Conversations, yes.
dwd
Ge0rG, I don't know if that's still XMPP as such. Otherwise we'd be looking at WhatsApp.
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Ge0rG
dwd: https://xmpp.org/uses/internet-of-things/ claims that Google Firebase has billions of installs, but I suppose this is about the target client devices, and Firebase XMPP is limited to source event delivery
Ge0rG
According to https://xmpp.org/uses/gaming/ it's Fortnite
Zash
So the answer is Google Fortnite Printing
dwd
ITYM Google Fortnite Switch
Ge0rG
RIP Google
wurstsalat
whatsapp claims to have 2 bn users now. xmpp.org still says 800 million. gotta pump those numbers up!
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dwd
Yes, but then you get into the philosophical argument over whether WhatsApp is XMPP, XMPP-derived, or nothing like XMPP anymore.
Zash
But is it still XMPP??
dwd
... which Zash as ever is more concise with.
Holger
Whatever helps with marketing, dammit.
Zash
Ah yes, of course. "Start with XMPP and you too can have 2B users in no-time!"
MattJ
In recent months I've seen denials from two WhatsApp folk that WhatsApp uses anything like XMPP in any way. And also a reverse engineering that clearly shows that it still is.
MattJ
I think at this point "XMPP-derived" is accurate, it's clearly not actual standard XMPP
Zash
Looking at the thing Matterbridge uses, I see a pile of protobuf
dwd
I don't think they'd recognise it. It's sort of weird WAP compressed XML, except I very much doubt they even treat it as XML anymore. But it does seem to be the same model still.
dwd
Zash, That's using the WhatsAppWebb protocol isn't it? Which is different again.
Zash
Yes
Holger
Right, if those folks are new they maybe just don't know where their tech is coming from?
Ellenor Malik
(-:
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Holger
Denying they're coming from XMPP would be hard:
https://web.archive.org/web/20200205125232/http://lists.jabber.ru/pipermail/ejabberd/2009-June/005027.html
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MattJ
Heh
dwd
Certainly. But Trigger's Broom and all that. (Or the Ship of Theseus, for non-UK people of a more classical bent). At what point does a system that's been gradually moving from XMPP over time actually cease to be "XMPP-based"?
Zash
When Marketing says so, obviously.
dwd
Zash, But whose marketing? Ours might say it's XMPP, still, and forever. Facebook's might disagree.
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dwd
Obviously we'd win because we can weird RFC 2119, the magical language that warps reality to our choosing. But still.
dwd
I meant to type "weild", but weird is good too.
jonas’
oh, a dwd
dwd
Possibly wield.
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Zash
Verb the weird!
dwd
It's cognate with various words meaning "fate", or indeed coercing of same, so quite suitable here.
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Ge0rG
MattJ: https://github.com/xsf/xmpp.org/pull/960 is merged but https://xmpp.org/about/compliance-suites-current is 404? am I missing something?
MattJ
The website requires manual deployment at the moment
MattJ
So probably that
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MattJ
Ge0rG, deployed but still 404
Ge0rG
Is there an evil typo in my PR?
MattJ
Looks okay to me, at a glance
Ge0rG
MattJ: reload nginx?
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MattJ
It was restarted
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MattJ
Hmm, this is a rewrite, not a redirect
Zash
isn't that sometimes the same thing?
Ge0rG
Oh. But /about/ipr-policy is also a redirect?
MattJ
Right, but it's also actual content that nginx is serving
MattJ
Extensions are served from another nginx instance
MattJ
Just a theory about what might be the cause, nginx logic beats me all the time
Ge0rG
me too
MattJ
But I suspect it sees that there is no file at the destination and returns 404 instead of a redirect. Presumably one can force a redirect.
Ge0rG
but `return 302 ...` won't work because it's not properly scoped
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MattJ
I think you just append 'redirect' to the end of the line, I'll test
MattJ
Yes, that was it
Ge0rG
Perfect, thanks.
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Ge0rG
how do I render the new homepage?
Zash
Given what?
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Ge0rG
given a source checkout
MattJ
Run 'hugo' to build HTML files, or 'hugo serve' to run a server
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Zash
`make` would tell you
MattJ
There's good docs in the README I believe :)
Ge0rG
thanks.
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Zash
`make serve` builds something for the xep list, then runs `hugo serve` and then http://localhost:1313
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Ge0rG
or just `hugo`
Zash
What, don't you want magic self-reloading javascript????
emus
I thinn it would be best to discuss why we think that someone should start using XMPP for their project/software?
Ge0rG
https://github.com/xsf/xmpp.org/pull/972
Link Mauve
Ge0rG, you missed XEP-0302.
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Ge0rG
Link Mauve: I was following the "supercedes" links, so it's missing there as well
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Link Mauve
Ah, I missed it back then then.
Ge0rG
Maybe the Editor could fix that?
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Ge0rG
Link Mauve: https://github.com/xsf/xmpp.org/pull/972/commits/7ecbbcb8265a22aa4b6fb7fdc750931afa830dc6
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Zash
Ge0rG: Any ideas for making the compliance suite link stand out more on https://xmpp.org/extensions/ ? Maybe in some way that fits with https://github.com/xsf/xmpp.org/pull/964