XSF Discussion - 2021-09-22

emus: sorry, I don't understand

wurstsalat: why do filter noch work? static site?

emus: because they are not implemented. yes, that's a static site

I thought about it: what would you want to filter though

not sure. but maybe the other idea is better: overview + link to site with all rfcs

There are a lot of ancillary RFCs, internet drafts, and so on. There's also sites which will find (for example) all documents which normatively reference XMPP, which might be rather useful to link. But also closely related RFCs, like RFC 6125, which informatively references XMPP (I think), but is really useful if you want to implement.

wurstsalat, Are you building that site and the text from the BIBXML, BTW?

dwd not yet, but that's a great idea

I'll try to automate as much as possible

Idle thought - what do we think the most popular XMPP client is?

Gaim.

for federated XMPP, not just something that's hidden inside a HP printer or something?

https://cerdale.zash.se/s/dsP7mvWV3z4uTYUq/de27679d-51ee-4188-a2d5-b343bdb30ae3.png

Well, I was thinking it's probably either Fortnite or the Nintendo Switch.

dwd: what about GCP?

For federated consumer chat, I think probably Conversations, yes.

Ge0rG, I don't know if that's still XMPP as such. Otherwise we'd be looking at WhatsApp.

dwd: https://xmpp.org/uses/internet-of-things/ claims that Google Firebase has billions of installs, but I suppose this is about the target client devices, and Firebase XMPP is limited to source event delivery

According to https://xmpp.org/uses/gaming/ it's Fortnite

So the answer is Google Fortnite Printing

ITYM Google Fortnite Switch

RIP Google

whatsapp claims to have 2 bn users now. xmpp.org still says 800 million. gotta pump those numbers up!

Yes, but then you get into the philosophical argument over whether WhatsApp is XMPP, XMPP-derived, or nothing like XMPP anymore.

But is it still XMPP??

... which Zash as ever is more concise with.

Whatever helps with marketing, dammit.

Ah yes, of course. "Start with XMPP and you too can have 2B users in no-time!"

In recent months I've seen denials from two WhatsApp folk that WhatsApp uses anything like XMPP in any way. And also a reverse engineering that clearly shows that it still is.

I think at this point "XMPP-derived" is accurate, it's clearly not actual standard XMPP

Looking at the thing Matterbridge uses, I see a pile of protobuf

I don't think they'd recognise it. It's sort of weird WAP compressed XML, except I very much doubt they even treat it as XML anymore. But it does seem to be the same model still.

Zash, That's using the WhatsAppWebb protocol isn't it? Which is different again.

Yes

Right, if those folks are new they maybe just don't know where their tech is coming from?

(-:

Denying they're coming from XMPP would be hard: https://web.archive.org/web/20200205125232/http://lists.jabber.ru/pipermail/ejabberd/2009-June/005027.html

Heh

Certainly. But Trigger's Broom and all that. (Or the Ship of Theseus, for non-UK people of a more classical bent). At what point does a system that's been gradually moving from XMPP over time actually cease to be "XMPP-based"?

When Marketing says so, obviously.

Zash, But whose marketing? Ours might say it's XMPP, still, and forever. Facebook's might disagree.

Obviously we'd win because we can weird RFC 2119, the magical language that warps reality to our choosing. But still.

I meant to type "weild", but weird is good too.

oh, a dwd

Possibly wield.

Verb the weird!

It's cognate with various words meaning "fate", or indeed coercing of same, so quite suitable here.

MattJ: https://github.com/xsf/xmpp.org/pull/960 is merged but https://xmpp.org/about/compliance-suites-current is 404? am I missing something?

The website requires manual deployment at the moment

So probably that

Ge0rG, deployed but still 404

Is there an evil typo in my PR?

Looks okay to me, at a glance

MattJ: reload nginx?

It was restarted

Hmm, this is a rewrite, not a redirect

isn't that sometimes the same thing?

Oh. But /about/ipr-policy is also a redirect?

Right, but it's also actual content that nginx is serving

Extensions are served from another nginx instance

Just a theory about what might be the cause, nginx logic beats me all the time

me too

But I suspect it sees that there is no file at the destination and returns 404 instead of a redirect. Presumably one can force a redirect.

but `return 302 ...` won't work because it's not properly scoped

I think you just append 'redirect' to the end of the line, I'll test

Yes, that was it

Perfect, thanks.

how do I render the new homepage?

Given what?

given a source checkout

Run 'hugo' to build HTML files, or 'hugo serve' to run a server

`make` would tell you

There's good docs in the README I believe :)

thanks.

`make serve` builds something for the xep list, then runs `hugo serve` and then http://localhost:1313

or just `hugo`

What, don't you want magic self-reloading javascript????

I thinn it would be best to discuss why we think that someone should start using XMPP for their project/software?

https://github.com/xsf/xmpp.org/pull/972

Ge0rG, you missed XEP-0302.

Link Mauve: I was following the "supercedes" links, so it's missing there as well

Ah, I missed it back then then.

Maybe the Editor could fix that?

Link Mauve: https://github.com/xsf/xmpp.org/pull/972/commits/7ecbbcb8265a22aa4b6fb7fdc750931afa830dc6

Ge0rG: Any ideas for making the compliance suite link stand out more on https://xmpp.org/extensions/ ? Maybe in some way that fits with https://github.com/xsf/xmpp.org/pull/964

Page not found. Looking good Github

Ge0rG, https://github.com/xsf/xeps/pull/1108 ✏

Sorry.

Link Mauve: thanks very much!

Zash: I've thought about that too, but without a clear path forward

Ge0rG: once you suggested a CVE list "thing" maybe now its time for this?

emus: https://op-co.de/tmp/xep-0280.html#security

Sorry, https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0280.html#security

but you wanted to read those automatically, right?