jonas’how about something client enforced where clients can choose to display late corrections more explicitly?
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jonas’fwiw, I think that neither a hard number of messages nor a hard time limit for corrections is ok and this will be something which needs to be figured out in a modernxmpp-like venue, or even in individual (closed) deployments
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MattJ(I'm inclined to agree)
MattJi.e. this is a product-level consideration, not a protocol-level one :)
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Ge0rGCan we remove all occurences of the word "Last" from the XEP then?
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flowModyfing arbitrary messages shouldn't be a problem as long as the client makes any modified previous message clear and allows to access and the modifciation history
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HolgerI can imagine things becoming tricky if you receive corrections referencing messages not in your local history?
HolgerBut that's just (client) implementation issues I guess 🙂
HolgerProduct-level!
ZashIsn't that one of the reasons MAM grew a way to query individual messages by archive-id?
HolgerDoesn't LMC reference one of the other IDs?
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ZashAw 🙁
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arcDo we have a quorum today?
ZashThe recurring question
arcYep.
arcGiven there's no response from another board member I'm guessing not
Zashping ralphm, MattJ and dwd?
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ralphmbangs gavel
0. Welcome
Who do we have?
ralphmHi!
arcHere
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Ellenor MalikDo board meetings have spectator seats?
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ralphmSure
KevYou have one.
ralphmEveryone in this room may interact, it doesn't require membership
ralphmThat said, we're waiting to reach quorum on directors.
ralphmMattJ and dwd, ping?
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dwdHiya.
ralphmthere we go
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ralphmOk. There's a message from Sam on an application for fiscal hosting
ralphmAnything else we should discuss today?
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Samalso the pr following up on fiscal host criteria
ralphmThe only hangup I had was on the word sponsee. I've seen sponsoree, too, but English is not my native language and I'm out of dept here
MattJI'm in favour of the PR, except for a couple of editorial fixes (that being one of them)
KevFWIW, Sponsee isn't a word in English, although it's obvious to a native speaker what it means.
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ralphmKev: cool. What's the right word?
dwdThere's no single word.
KevI'm not actually sure there is one.
dwdSponsor subject?
Kev"Sponsored Project" would be what I'd probably write.
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dwdThat too.
Samsponsee is definitely a word
ralphmOk. MattJ, can you handle the editorial fixes then?
ralphmmoves to approve
ralphm+1
KevSam: I'm not convinced - https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/sponsee
(But dropping it now)
dwdIt'd only be a word if Sponser was...
arcLeave it to the Brit to be a linguistic prescriptionist
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arc😉
ralphmI could not care less by now
ralphmMattJ: can you pick this up?
ralphmalso awaiting votes
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arc+1
MattJ+1, though if someone else can then it will move quicker
MattJI'm away for the next few days at least
dwd+1
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ralphmMotion carries.
ralphmI'll add comments to the PR and have it resolved
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ralphm3. First applicant
ralphmSo, first off, since this PR isn't done yet, I'm not sure that a) it is fair to assume applicant has agreed, b) given Sam's comments the application will pass. I think we have to review the application against the approved rules.
ralphmOpinions
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dwdI'm missing context, I'm afraid.
ralphmdwd: there was an e-mail to the Board list, on October 1, with a follow-up on October 8.
MattJThe only issue I recall is that they don't have any open-source code, currently
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SamThe Open Source Collective requires you to have source code available before they'll consider you, but that does seem like it would make it impossible to fundraise and then pay someone to write code, which also seems desirable and may be the case here.
SamI assume (but don't know for sure) that the reason for that rule is to stop tons of random people from applying and wasting resources because they just had an idea that they'll never execute
dwdSo... Yes. The problem as I see it is that this isn't an existing project wanting to raise funds.
SamAnyways, may be something for the board to balance/decide.
MattJPersonally I'd settle for some documentation of the planned implementation
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MattJand an agreement of course that it will be open-source
dwdI can't quite get my head around how this works. We'd get some donations toward this, and then... What? They go out and find a contractor to write it? This feels more like a bounty type thing.
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MattJIt basically is
MattJThough they already have someone (some people?) who will work on it, given the funding
dwdI'm not against a bounty type thing. Just not sure if this is the right vehicle, as it stands. It might be better to have the XSF simply handle bounty arrangements itself. Perhaps.
SamThey already have a person who works on the matrix/xmpp bridge, I think
MattJFWIW the ultimate goal of the project is to add support for MAM to xmpp.js so it can be used in the Matrix<->XMPP bridge
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dwdRight, I get that.
MattJBut I've seen little in the way of docs to give me confidence that the project is anywhere near scoped out
dwdWell, is that our problem?
MattJand who will be involved, etc.
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dwdGenuine question, by the way. I don't know.
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KevSorry, I realise I'm out of this, but does this mean someone is asking the XMPP to handle sponsorship for xmpp.js work, and that someone isn't xmpp.js? That seems a bit weird if so.✎
MattJFor an existing open-source project, I think all these questions have clearer answers
KevSorry, I realise I'm out of this, but does this mean someone is asking the XSF to handle sponsorship for xmpp.js work, and that someone isn't xmpp.js? That seems a bit weird if so. ✏
MattJKev, yeeees. It's weird or not weird, depending on how you look at it. Maybe the plugin will or won't be upstreamed, but these people are not affiliated with xmpp.js maintainers as far as I am aware.
MattJIf it's all open-source, I don't think that's a real problem. They could just as easily fork xmpp.js with a click of a button if that's what it takes to get approved.
MattJThey're not applying as xmpp.js
arcI think it is pretty clear
MattJThey essentially want to do crowdfunding for a specific short-term project, and they want us to accept and hold the funds for them
ralphmOk. Either we resolve this now by vote, or we need more discussion.
MattJIf we decide it needs more discussion we should identify what specific blocking points are, and communicate these to the applicants if necessary
ralphmmotions we approve the project Message Archive Management ( MAM ) plugin
dwdI think I think it's just weird. But not necessarily bad weird.
ralphmNote that -1 is fine too, but I want to move on
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ralphmdwd, MattJ, arc?
MattJ-1, as it currently stands. Given that it's not an established project, I think I want to see more details before we accept it as one.
dwdI see Matt is typing furiously, so I'm waiting to see what he says...
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dwdOh. Colour me surprised.
ralphmAh, for some reason Gajim doesn't show me
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ralphmI don't know how we communicate this feedback, but MattJ, given that you object, please take care of this. I know you're going away for a few days, but after that, if needed.
ralphm4. AOB
ralphmAny?
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MattJYes, I can communicate with them next week
dwdI have no decision in mind, but every objection I have really seems to be answered by Matt's comments. So I guess +1?
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arc+1 from me btw
SamMattJ: if you send me your Open Collective account (if you have one) I can add you so you can communicate with them on there
ralphm+1
MattJShall do
ralphmCool
ralphm5. Date of Next
ralphm+1W
ralphm6. Close
ralphmThanks all!
ralphmbangs gavel
SamThanks all; I really appreciate you taking this on
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ZashEditor-ial question: What's the deal with https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0030.html being Version 2.5rc3 ? (release candidate?)
jonas’don't ask me
jonas’2017 was before my time
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ZashAnyone happen to have a tool that compares a DOAP file with the latest XEP versions, highlighting which ones have been updated?
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emuswurstsalat:
emusI think it would be great to render this as comparision between clients
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ZashHello 500 character bash "one-liner"
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wurstsalatI don't have that one-liner ;)
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Zashhttps://paste.debian.net/1216303/ split across 3 lines for the absolutely tiniest increase in readability