jcbrandHowdy. Would it make sense to create a new XEP for embedding Open Graph data in a stanza, like Prosody's mod_ogp does?
https://modules.prosody.im/mod_ogp.html
This is used for URL previews (unfurls) in Converse.
jcbrandIt's one, simple implementation of XEP-0422 message fastening.
DanielEmbedding open graph is a good idea. What worries me slightly is depending on a fairly complex XEP of which we don't know if it's going somewhere
DanielThat's not a no
Keva) Yes, I think it makes sense
b) Does it make sense to bring all of the OGP elements together in one parent, rather than having them all as children of the apply-to?
Kev(b is not a rhetorical question)
jcbrandDaniel: I'm using message fastening for various things in Converse and IMO it works well. It's also used for message retractions and message moderation.
Kev(I think I've persuaded myself that the answer to (b) is 'no', and what you've already done is the sensible thing)
Danieljcbrand: good to know. I just vaguely remember some negative feedback when it was first introduced 2 years ago
KevBut I also haven't had any sleep because of security alarm issues, so my judgement may be somewhat impaired.
DanielBut it's good to know people are using it successfully
jcbrandKev: I honestly don't know whether it's better or not. Sounds like the kind of feedback that could come from having a XEP 🙂
flowKev, what persuaded you? :)
Kevflow: I couldn't immediately persuade myself that wrapping would be *better*, and absent anything better, simple wins.
KevMy niggling, though, is that these are not independent payloads (like e.g. reactions), but are essentially details of a single - which then speaks to the answer being 'yes' :)
Alexmemberbot is still online until ourmember meeting later today, when you are a XSF member and have not voted yet please do so.
jcbrandI actually also lean towards yes. Putting everything inside an element with XMLNS urn:xmpp:ogp
flowyep, but I guess it's hard to change now that it's already in the wild
KevJC: So do I, now.
flowbut mostly depends on the implementations, and one could support both formats
jcbrandI'm not aware of any other implementations besides mod_ogp and Converse
jcbrandAlso mod_tweet_data
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jcbrandI updated the DOAP files for Strophe and Converse 2 weeks ago, but they're still no showing on https://xmpp.org. Does someone have to manually trigger a build?
https://github.com/xsf/xmpp.org/commit/35c54712164418ef74ee46067c1c4c09e5ac9f5b
ZashI can poke it, if all it takes is a rebuild
Link Mauvejcbrand, you updated the wrong Strophe, you updated the C libstrophe, and not Strophe.js.
jcbrandThanks
jcbrandAh
jcbrandWell it can also get updated
jcbrandZash: please wait a moment
Link MauveOn that note, you could also update it to use HTTPS in the link, and if you control the domain make it an automated redirection with HSTS and HSTS preload.
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jcbrandDone. OK if I just push? Or should I create a PR?
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jcbrandOk, I'm pushing...
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ZashAwkward: XEP-0459: XMPP Compliance Suites 2022 points to XEP-0411: Bookmarks Conversion which has been Deprecated...
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jonas’luckily, it's just draft, not final
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jonas’I'm sure next council will love to fix that, wanna make a PR?
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ZashAnd risk becoming the Compliance Suite Author? :S
dwdFinally got DNS resolution working on my Openfire container again. No idea why docker makes DNS so difficult. Many apologies for missing the last Council meeting. :-(
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MattJYou're excused if you can blame docker
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dwdIt seems to block DNS unless you explciitly create a network, and even then it rewrites the /etc/resolv.conf on container start so it breaks. Mystery to me.
jonas’huh
KevUhm. It shouldn't do that.
jonas’I think you might be holding it wrong.
Kev^
dwdWell, I know it shouldn't.
dwdIndividual containers work, but those in a docker-compose do not, unless you explcitly create a new network.
jonas’doesn't docker-compose **always** create a new network?
jonas’I wish it wouldn't
KevI think you can persuade it not to, but yes.
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dwdYes, but it creates a default bridge network. Those don't do DNS. You need an explicitly created bridge network for DNS, apparently.
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jonas’… they do?
jonas’i.e. wfm
dwdOh. Well, I have the stuff working, kind of, now.
Kev(A little off topic, but ... no network defined in that file, and resolution works)
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arcMorning
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MattJo/
arcDwd your last board meeting
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dwdIt is indeed.
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arcLooks like we're bringing in JC
ralphmbangs gavel
ralphm0. Welcome + Agenda
ralphmWelcome to the last Board Meeting of the 2020/2021 term!
jonas’on the 635th of March, 2020
ralphmIt appears we are all present, so let's get started. What agenda items do we have?
ralphmjonas’: hah
ralphmjonas’: so is the next term named 2020/2022?
jonas’that would be appropriate, and retroactively renaming this term to 2020/2020
MattJI don't have anything for the agenda this week
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ralphmarc, dwd?
dwdI have nothing, beyond thanks for the memories.
arcIt would be nice to wrap up some of the things we started
arcLeave the next board with a clean slate, or at least something closer to one
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arcOf course here in the states it is Thanksgiving so I'm also not really wanting a long board meeting
KevMay we give thanks for the people on Board and Council keeping the lights on :)
ralphmI don't think there are any long-running items still going?
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ralphmKev: indeed. And thanks for the people outside of those two teams, for keeping us on our toes!
jonas’syncing the last state from your minds into the trello board would make sense
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ralphmYep
ralphmWell, some items on there are from before this term even. It needs thorough clean up, which I will look into
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ralphmI think all has been said for now, tbh.
ralphmThank you all for your efforts this term, hope next term/year will be a much better one, for XMPP and personally!
ralphm1. Date of Next
ralphmI pencil in +1W, to welcome the next Board after today's elections.
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ralphm2. Close
ralphmThanks all!
MattJThanks all!
dwdThanks ralphm!
jonas’Thank you Board for your service with the things I as a tech person don't want to have to deal with :)
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dwdAnd thanks MattJ and arc for keeping going next year.
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ralphmdwd: don't be a stranger :D
ralphmbangs gavel
arcWho is dwd? 😅
dwdSpeaking of that meeting, I'd best vote.
ralphmThat escalated quickly!
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arcI can't vote, tried repeatedly but Memberbot doesn't recognize me.
arcI'll vote in the meeting
Link MauveAlex, ↑
jonas’Kev or MattJ, can someone verify Alex' identity and then promote him to admin so that he can see the identities of others during the meeting for voting purposes?
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jonas’or, indeed, ralphm
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MattJDone
jonas’:+1: thanks
Alexarc, just let me know what your preferred Jid is and I will make sure you can vote
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arcThis election I'm just going to affirmatively vote yes to everyone.
arcI had a domain name expire by accident so that needs to be fixed
AlexI have the concordance.io on file
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arcYep.
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Alexlook like its meeting time
Alexwill start in 2 minutes
SeveAlex: memberbot does not reply to me 😔
AlexSeve: we will fix during the meeting
Alexbangs the gavel
Alexhere is our agenda for today:
https://wiki.xmpp.org/web/Meeting-Minutes-2021-11-25
Alex1) Call for Quorum
Alexas you can see 35 members voted via proxy. So we already have a quorum
Alex2) Items Subject to a Vote
AlexBoard and Council election, you can see the application page here:
https://wiki.xmpp.org/web/Board_and_Council_Elections_2021
Alex3) Opportunity for XSF members to Vote in the Meeting
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AlexSeve, when you give me your jid I will check the whitelist and make sure you can vote
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AlexSeve, you still want to vote?
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AlexSeve, can you try to vote?
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Alexarc: you wanted to vote in the meeting as well
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SeveAlex: perfect! Thank you!
dwdI thought I'd say something just so Alex knows someone is watching. :-)
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Kevsomething
AlexSeve: have your vote recorded
Alexlooks like Arc is not here right now
SeveAlex: yes 🙂
Alexlets wait 2 more minutes, then I start working on the results
Link MauveAlex, arc already mentioned publicly the results he wanted to give.✎
Link MauveAlex, arc already mentioned publicly the votes he wanted to give. ✏
Link Mauve“18:32:02 arc> This election I'm just going to affirmatively vote yes to everyone.”
arcYup.
arcThanks Link
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Alexyes, but I need them in the meeting, Arc can you post it again?
ZashElection secrecy is SACRED!
Alexor I add your Jif to the whitelist and you can vote quickly
arcSure. I vote yes to everyone on the ballot.
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Alex👍
Alexokay, then we have 37 voters, pretty good this time
Alexwill shutdown memberbot then and start working on the results
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Alex4) Announcement of Voting Results
Alexwhen you reload the page at:
https://wiki.xmpp.org/web/Meeting-Minutes-2021-11-25#Announcement_of_Voting_Results
You can see the results
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Alexall candiates are accepted
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Link MauveCongrats everyone!
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ZashCongratulations!
Alexcongrats to everyone, and thanks for applying and volunteering to those roles
Link MauveAnd thanks for running. :)
Alex5) Any other Business?
dwdMany thanks for doing this once again, Alex.
Alexlooks like there is no other business
Alex6) Formal Adjournment
AlexI motion that we adjourn
jcbrandLots of warm and fuzzies in this room right now. Thanks everyone for your time and energy
dwdSeconded!
Alexbangs the gavel
Alexthanks everyone
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KevThanks Alex.
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guus.der.kinderenThanks Alex!
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emusMany thanks Alex!
I think the election participation should be listed for recent years
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Link MauveThis election brings to the spotlight something I’d really like to change in the decision process, but I’m clueless how: a kind of justification of the votes. We overwhelmingly vote “yes” in most elections, and this silences any “no” that gets thrown in, yet I have a hunch that those “no” carry a meaning that is forgotten in the process.
Link MauveI have no idea which form it could take, perhaps a discussion venue for members to encourage others to vote like them, or at least try to.
Link MauveBecause more than 20% of us have been dissatisfied with some candidates, I feel like there is a reason which other members might not see just from the application pages or from daily interactions with the applicants.
Link MauveDo we have any data from similar organisations which tried to tackle this issue?
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emusLink Mauve, where did you see the No-votes?
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Link Mauveemus, there were 37 members who voted, and candidates got 29 to 36 votes, you can subtract one number to the other to get how many people didn’t want to see each candidate elected.
emusah yes
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emusOk, so what you have in mind to reject election if "no-vote" reaches a specific percentage?
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Link MauveNo, I’d like to have some way(s) for members to influence others, not as a direct “do/don’t vote for that person” obviously, but something different than what we do today.
ZashRanked voting?
Link MauveChanging the percentage of votes to accept someone wouldn’t solve anything, we’d just have fewer people elected in the end.
Link MauveI still think each vote should be equal, whether you vote “yes” or “no”.
Link MauveSame reason I once wanted to know why people voted against me once I got elected for council a few years ago I think, so that I could improve on it.
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larmaIf you want to (anonymously) lobby for or against a candidate, you can already do so by writing mails to lists or messages in chat. So any attempt to influence others are already possible.
However, I do like the idea to give anonymous feedback about candidates. We could add a feature to Memberbot to add a comment after the vote for each candidate. Memberbot collects those comments for each candidate and returns them to Alex independent of the vote results. Alex either forwards them to the candidate or just publishes them as part of the meeting minutes.
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larmaThat would of course require to change the voting model for board/council, as right now you don't vote for each person with 'yes' or 'no', but you just pick those you want to vote yes for.
I think this is the reason why we see less votes in favor in board/council voting than in membership votes: abstain and 'no' are very similar in board/council votes, in membership votes you have to decide between 'yes' and 'no', probably causing people that would like to abstain to end up with a 'yes' - at least that's what I tend to do
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ZashNegative parlamentarism?
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Ge0rGLike in council, require a comment on a -1 vote?
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dwdThis just sounds like a way to further demoralise newly elected Council/Board people, to be honest.