Howdy. Would it make sense to create a new XEP for embedding Open Graph data in a stanza, like Prosody's mod_ogp does?
https://modules.prosody.im/mod_ogp.html
This is used for URL previews (unfurls) in Converse.
jcbrand
It's one, simple implementation of XEP-0422 message fastening.
Daniel
Embedding open graph is a good idea. What worries me slightly is depending on a fairly complex XEP of which we don't know if it's going somewhere
Daniel
That's not a no
Kev
a) Yes, I think it makes sense
b) Does it make sense to bring all of the OGP elements together in one parent, rather than having them all as children of the apply-to?
Kev
(b is not a rhetorical question)
jcbrand
Daniel: I'm using message fastening for various things in Converse and IMO it works well. It's also used for message retractions and message moderation.
Kev
(I think I've persuaded myself that the answer to (b) is 'no', and what you've already done is the sensible thing)
Daniel
jcbrand: good to know. I just vaguely remember some negative feedback when it was first introduced 2 years ago
Kev
But I also haven't had any sleep because of security alarm issues, so my judgement may be somewhat impaired.
Daniel
But it's good to know people are using it successfully
jcbrand
Kev: I honestly don't know whether it's better or not. Sounds like the kind of feedback that could come from having a XEP 🙂
flow
Kev, what persuaded you? :)
Kev
flow: I couldn't immediately persuade myself that wrapping would be *better*, and absent anything better, simple wins.
Kev
My niggling, though, is that these are not independent payloads (like e.g. reactions), but are essentially details of a single - which then speaks to the answer being 'yes' :)
Alex
memberbot is still online until ourmember meeting later today, when you are a XSF member and have not voted yet please do so.
jcbrand
I actually also lean towards yes. Putting everything inside an element with XMLNS urn:xmpp:ogp
flow
yep, but I guess it's hard to change now that it's already in the wild
Kev
JC: So do I, now.
flow
but mostly depends on the implementations, and one could support both formats
jcbrand
I'm not aware of any other implementations besides mod_ogp and Converse
jcbrand
Also mod_tweet_data
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jcbrand
I updated the DOAP files for Strophe and Converse 2 weeks ago, but they're still no showing on https://xmpp.org. Does someone have to manually trigger a build?
https://github.com/xsf/xmpp.org/commit/35c54712164418ef74ee46067c1c4c09e5ac9f5b
Zash
I can poke it, if all it takes is a rebuild
Link Mauve
jcbrand, you updated the wrong Strophe, you updated the C libstrophe, and not Strophe.js.
jcbrand
Thanks
jcbrand
Ah
jcbrand
Well it can also get updated
jcbrand
Zash: please wait a moment
Link Mauve
On that note, you could also update it to use HTTPS in the link, and if you control the domain make it an automated redirection with HSTS and HSTS preload.
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jcbrand
Done. OK if I just push? Or should I create a PR?
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jcbrand
Ok, I'm pushing...
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Zash
Awkward: XEP-0459: XMPP Compliance Suites 2022 points to XEP-0411: Bookmarks Conversion which has been Deprecated...
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jonas’
luckily, it's just draft, not final
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jonas’
I'm sure next council will love to fix that, wanna make a PR?
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Zash
And risk becoming the Compliance Suite Author? :S
dwd
Finally got DNS resolution working on my Openfire container again. No idea why docker makes DNS so difficult. Many apologies for missing the last Council meeting. :-(
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MattJ
You're excused if you can blame docker
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dwd
It seems to block DNS unless you explciitly create a network, and even then it rewrites the /etc/resolv.conf on container start so it breaks. Mystery to me.
jonas’
huh
Kev
Uhm. It shouldn't do that.
jonas’
I think you might be holding it wrong.
Kev
^
dwd
Well, I know it shouldn't.
dwd
Individual containers work, but those in a docker-compose do not, unless you explcitly create a new network.
jonas’
doesn't docker-compose **always** create a new network?
jonas’
I wish it wouldn't
Kev
I think you can persuade it not to, but yes.
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dwd
Yes, but it creates a default bridge network. Those don't do DNS. You need an explicitly created bridge network for DNS, apparently.
(A little off topic, but ... no network defined in that file, and resolution works)
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arc
Morning
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MattJ
o/
arc
Dwd your last board meeting
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dwd
It is indeed.
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arc
Looks like we're bringing in JC
ralphmbangs gavel
ralphm
0. Welcome + Agenda
ralphm
Welcome to the last Board Meeting of the 2020/2021 term!
jonas’
on the 635th of March, 2020
ralphm
It appears we are all present, so let's get started. What agenda items do we have?
ralphm
jonas’: hah
ralphm
jonas’: so is the next term named 2020/2022?
jonas’
that would be appropriate, and retroactively renaming this term to 2020/2020
MattJ
I don't have anything for the agenda this week
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ralphm
arc, dwd?
dwd
I have nothing, beyond thanks for the memories.
arc
It would be nice to wrap up some of the things we started
arc
Leave the next board with a clean slate, or at least something closer to one
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arc
Of course here in the states it is Thanksgiving so I'm also not really wanting a long board meeting
Kev
May we give thanks for the people on Board and Council keeping the lights on :)
ralphm
I don't think there are any long-running items still going?
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ralphm
Kev: indeed. And thanks for the people outside of those two teams, for keeping us on our toes!
jonas’
syncing the last state from your minds into the trello board would make sense
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ralphm
Yep
ralphm
Well, some items on there are from before this term even. It needs thorough clean up, which I will look into
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ralphm
I think all has been said for now, tbh.
ralphm
Thank you all for your efforts this term, hope next term/year will be a much better one, for XMPP and personally!
ralphm
1. Date of Next
ralphm
I pencil in +1W, to welcome the next Board after today's elections.
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ralphm
2. Close
ralphm
Thanks all!
MattJ
Thanks all!
dwd
Thanks ralphm!
jonas’
Thank you Board for your service with the things I as a tech person don't want to have to deal with :)
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dwd
And thanks MattJ and arc for keeping going next year.
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ralphm
dwd: don't be a stranger :D
ralphmbangs gavel
arc
Who is dwd? 😅
dwd
Speaking of that meeting, I'd best vote.
ralphm
That escalated quickly!
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arc
I can't vote, tried repeatedly but Memberbot doesn't recognize me.
arc
I'll vote in the meeting
Link Mauve
Alex, ↑
jonas’
Kev or MattJ, can someone verify Alex' identity and then promote him to admin so that he can see the identities of others during the meeting for voting purposes?
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jonas’
or, indeed, ralphm
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MattJ
Done
jonas’
:+1: thanks
Alex
arc, just let me know what your preferred Jid is and I will make sure you can vote
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arc
This election I'm just going to affirmatively vote yes to everyone.
arc
I had a domain name expire by accident so that needs to be fixed
Alex
I have the concordance.io on file
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arc
Yep.
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Alex
look like its meeting time
Alex
will start in 2 minutes
Seve
Alex: memberbot does not reply to me 😔
Alex
Seve: we will fix during the meeting
Alexbangs the gavel
Alex
here is our agenda for today:
https://wiki.xmpp.org/web/Meeting-Minutes-2021-11-25
Alex
1) Call for Quorum
Alex
as you can see 35 members voted via proxy. So we already have a quorum
Alex
2) Items Subject to a Vote
Alex
Board and Council election, you can see the application page here:
https://wiki.xmpp.org/web/Board_and_Council_Elections_2021
Alex
3) Opportunity for XSF members to Vote in the Meeting
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Alex
Seve, when you give me your jid I will check the whitelist and make sure you can vote
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Alex
Seve, you still want to vote?
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Alex
Seve, can you try to vote?
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Alex
arc: you wanted to vote in the meeting as well
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Seve
Alex: perfect! Thank you!
dwd
I thought I'd say something just so Alex knows someone is watching. :-)
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Kev
something
Alex
Seve: have your vote recorded
Alex
looks like Arc is not here right now
Seve
Alex: yes 🙂
Alex
lets wait 2 more minutes, then I start working on the results
Link Mauve
Alex, arc already mentioned publicly the results he wanted to give.✎
Link Mauve
Alex, arc already mentioned publicly the votes he wanted to give. ✏
Link Mauve
“18:32:02 arc> This election I'm just going to affirmatively vote yes to everyone.”
arc
Yup.
arc
Thanks Link
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Alex
yes, but I need them in the meeting, Arc can you post it again?
Zash
Election secrecy is SACRED!
Alex
or I add your Jif to the whitelist and you can vote quickly
arc
Sure. I vote yes to everyone on the ballot.
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Alex
👍
Alex
okay, then we have 37 voters, pretty good this time
Alex
will shutdown memberbot then and start working on the results
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Alex
4) Announcement of Voting Results
Alex
when you reload the page at:
https://wiki.xmpp.org/web/Meeting-Minutes-2021-11-25#Announcement_of_Voting_Results
You can see the results
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Alex
all candiates are accepted
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Link Mauve
Congrats everyone!
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Zash
Congratulations!
Alex
congrats to everyone, and thanks for applying and volunteering to those roles
Link Mauve
And thanks for running. :)
Alex
5) Any other Business?
dwd
Many thanks for doing this once again, Alex.
Alex
looks like there is no other business
Alex
6) Formal Adjournment
Alex
I motion that we adjourn
jcbrand
Lots of warm and fuzzies in this room right now. Thanks everyone for your time and energy
dwd
Seconded!
Alexbangs the gavel
Alex
thanks everyone
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Kev
Thanks Alex.
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guus.der.kinderen
Thanks Alex!
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emus
Many thanks Alex!
I think the election participation should be listed for recent years
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Link Mauve
This election brings to the spotlight something I’d really like to change in the decision process, but I’m clueless how: a kind of justification of the votes. We overwhelmingly vote “yes” in most elections, and this silences any “no” that gets thrown in, yet I have a hunch that those “no” carry a meaning that is forgotten in the process.
Link Mauve
I have no idea which form it could take, perhaps a discussion venue for members to encourage others to vote like them, or at least try to.
Link Mauve
Because more than 20% of us have been dissatisfied with some candidates, I feel like there is a reason which other members might not see just from the application pages or from daily interactions with the applicants.
Link Mauve
Do we have any data from similar organisations which tried to tackle this issue?
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emus
Link Mauve, where did you see the No-votes?
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Link Mauve
emus, there were 37 members who voted, and candidates got 29 to 36 votes, you can subtract one number to the other to get how many people didn’t want to see each candidate elected.
emus
ah yes
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emus
Ok, so what you have in mind to reject election if "no-vote" reaches a specific percentage?
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Link Mauve
No, I’d like to have some way(s) for members to influence others, not as a direct “do/don’t vote for that person” obviously, but something different than what we do today.
Zash
Ranked voting?
Link Mauve
Changing the percentage of votes to accept someone wouldn’t solve anything, we’d just have fewer people elected in the end.
Link Mauve
I still think each vote should be equal, whether you vote “yes” or “no”.
Link Mauve
Same reason I once wanted to know why people voted against me once I got elected for council a few years ago I think, so that I could improve on it.
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larma
If you want to (anonymously) lobby for or against a candidate, you can already do so by writing mails to lists or messages in chat. So any attempt to influence others are already possible.
However, I do like the idea to give anonymous feedback about candidates. We could add a feature to Memberbot to add a comment after the vote for each candidate. Memberbot collects those comments for each candidate and returns them to Alex independent of the vote results. Alex either forwards them to the candidate or just publishes them as part of the meeting minutes.
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larma
That would of course require to change the voting model for board/council, as right now you don't vote for each person with 'yes' or 'no', but you just pick those you want to vote yes for.
I think this is the reason why we see less votes in favor in board/council voting than in membership votes: abstain and 'no' are very similar in board/council votes, in membership votes you have to decide between 'yes' and 'no', probably causing people that would like to abstain to end up with a 'yes' - at least that's what I tend to do
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Zash
Negative parlamentarism?
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Ge0rG
Like in council, require a comment on a -1 vote?
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dwd
This just sounds like a way to further demoralise newly elected Council/Board people, to be honest.