XSF Discussion - 2021-11-25

  1. goffi has left

  2. jinxd has joined

  3. jl4 has left

  4. emus has left

  5. belong has left

  6. adiaholic has joined

  7. sonny has left

  8. sonny has joined

  9. sonny has left

  10. sonny has joined

  11. debacle has left

  12. sonny has left

  13. sonny has joined

  14. neshtaxmpp has left

  15. neshtaxmpp has joined

  16. neshtaxmpp has left

  17. neshtaxmpp has joined

  18. Kev has left

  19. Kev has joined

  20. belong has joined

  21. harry837374884 has left

  22. belong has left

  23. floretta has left

  24. floretta has joined

  25. belong has joined

  26. jcbrand has left

  27. kyemxden has left

  28. kyemxden has joined

  29. neshtaxmpp has left

  30. adiaholic has left

  31. adiaholic has joined

  32. Apollo has left

  33. adiaholic has left

  34. adiaholic has joined

  35. belong has left

  36. neshtaxmpp has joined

  37. adiaholic has left

  38. neshtaxmpp has left

  39. adiaholic has joined

  40. belong has joined

  41. adiaholic has left

  42. jcbrand has joined

  43. adiaholic has joined

  44. belong has left

  45. Matthew has left

  46. Rixon 👁🗨 has left

  47. homebeach has left

  48. uhoreg has left

  49. Half-Shot has left

  50. Half-Shot has joined

  51. Matthew has joined

  52. Rixon 👁🗨 has joined

  53. uhoreg has joined

  54. homebeach has joined

  55. kyemxden has left

  56. kyemxden has joined

  57. jinxd has left

  58. belong has joined

  59. jcbrand has left

  60. raghavgururajan has left

  61. belong has left

  62. Kev has left

  63. Steve Kille has left

  64. Steve Kille has joined

  65. Kev has joined

  66. Kev has left

  67. Kev has joined

  68. Vidak has left

  69. belong has joined

  70. raghavgururajan has joined

  71. floretta has left

  72. floretta has joined

  73. Yagiza has joined

  74. adiaholic has left

  75. adiaholic has joined

  76. belong has left

  77. serge90 has left

  78. Vidak has joined

  79. adiaholic has left

  80. phryk has joined

  81. adiaholic has joined

  82. belong has joined

  83. serge90 has joined

  84. karoshi has left

  85. adiaholic has left

  86. adiaholic has joined

  87. belong has left

  88. belong has joined

  89. adiaholic has left

  90. adiaholic has joined

  91. Vidak has left

  92. phryk has left

  93. kyemxden has left

  94. phryk has joined

  95. adiaholic has left

  96. marc0s has left

  97. marc0s has joined

  98. floretta has left

  99. floretta has joined

  100. adiaholic has joined

  101. msavoritias has joined

  102. belong has left

  103. adiaholic has left

  104. adiaholic has joined

  105. adiaholic has left

  106. adiaholic has joined

  107. pjn has left

  108. adiaholic has left

  109. adiaholic has joined

  110. floretta has left

  111. floretta has joined

  112. adiaholic has left

  113. adiaholic has joined

  114. adiaholic has left

  115. Paganini has left

  116. lskdjf has left

  117. Menel has joined

  118. lorddavidiii has joined

  119. adiaholic has joined

  120. pjn has joined

  121. adiaholic has left

  122. Mikaela has joined

  123. adiaholic has joined

  124. Vidak has joined

  125. adiaholic has left

  126. me9 has joined

  127. david has left

  128. adiaholic has joined

  129. adiaholic has left

  130. Tobias has joined

  131. adiaholic has joined

  132. jcbrand has joined

  133. adiaholic has left

  134. adiaholic has joined

  135. jcbrand has left

  136. xecks has left

  137. adiaholic has left

  138. belong has joined

  139. adiaholic has joined

  140. belong has left

  141. adiaholic has left

  142. belong has joined

  143. pasdesushi has joined

  144. me9 has left

  145. ti_gj06 has left

  146. belong has left

  147. serge90 has left

  148. arcxi has left

  149. belong has joined

  150. emus has joined

  151. belong has left

  152. floretta has left

  153. belong has joined

  154. floretta has joined

  155. marc0s has left

  156. marc0s has joined

  157. xecks has joined

  158. Kev has left

  159. Kev has joined

  160. marc has joined

  161. serge90 has joined

  162. belong has left

  163. msavoritias has left

  164. rafasaurus has left

  165. rafasaurus has joined

  166. msavoritias has joined

  167. Menel has left

  168. belong has joined

  169. Menel has joined

  170. adiaholic has joined

  171. pasdesushi has left

  172. Titi has joined

  173. adiaholic has left

  174. belong has left

  175. debacle has joined

  176. adiaholic has joined

  177. belong has joined

  178. harry837374884 has joined

  179. pasdesushi has joined

  180. marc has left

  181. adiaholic has left

  182. belong has left

  183. jcbrand has joined

  184. belong has joined

  185. sonny has left

  186. sonny has joined

  187. pasdesushi has left

  188. pasdesushi has joined

  189. pasdesushi has left

  190. pasdesushi has joined

  191. wladmis has joined

  192. adiaholic has joined

  193. goffi has joined

  194. qrpnxz has left

  195. qrpnxz has joined

  196. marc has joined

  197. adiaholic has left

  198. jl4 has joined

  199. Lopmen has left

  200. Lopmen has joined

  201. belong has left

  202. adiaholic has joined

  203. jl4 has left

  204. qrpnxz has left

  205. qrpnxz has joined

  206. qrpnxz has left

  207. qrpnxz has joined

  208. belong has joined

  209. arc has left

  210. arc has joined

  211. debacle has left

  212. emus has left

  213. belong has left

  214. adiaholic has left

  215. karoshi has joined

  216. adiaholic has joined

  217. pjn has left

  218. adiaholic has left

  219. belong has joined

  220. wladmis has left

  221. mdosch has left

  222. mdosch has joined

  223. arc has left

  224. arc has joined

  225. marc has left

  226. Daniel has left

  227. Daniel has joined

  228. belong has left

  229. qrpnxz has left

  230. qrpnxz has joined

  231. qrpnxz has left

  232. qrpnxz has joined

  233. debacle has joined

  234. marc has joined

  235. emus has joined

  236. belong has joined

  237. arc has left

  238. arc has joined

  239. arc has left

  240. arc has joined

  241. arcxi has joined

  242. belong has left

  243. belong has joined

  244. mjk has joined

  245. adiaholic has joined

  246. millesimus has joined

  247. ti_gj06 has joined

  248. bean has left

  249. adiaholic has left

  250. jcbrand

    Howdy. Would it make sense to create a new XEP for embedding Open Graph data in a stanza, like Prosody's mod_ogp does? https://modules.prosody.im/mod_ogp.html This is used for URL previews (unfurls) in Converse.

  251. jcbrand

    It's one, simple implementation of XEP-0422 message fastening.

  252. Daniel

    Embedding open graph is a good idea. What worries me slightly is depending on a fairly complex XEP of which we don't know if it's going somewhere

  253. Daniel

    That's not a no

  254. Kev

    a) Yes, I think it makes sense b) Does it make sense to bring all of the OGP elements together in one parent, rather than having them all as children of the apply-to?

  255. Kev

    (b is not a rhetorical question)

  256. jcbrand

    Daniel: I'm using message fastening for various things in Converse and IMO it works well. It's also used for message retractions and message moderation.

  257. Kev

    (I think I've persuaded myself that the answer to (b) is 'no', and what you've already done is the sensible thing)

  258. Daniel

    jcbrand: good to know. I just vaguely remember some negative feedback when it was first introduced 2 years ago

  259. Kev

    But I also haven't had any sleep because of security alarm issues, so my judgement may be somewhat impaired.

  260. Daniel

    But it's good to know people are using it successfully

  261. jcbrand

    Kev: I honestly don't know whether it's better or not. Sounds like the kind of feedback that could come from having a XEP 🙂

  262. flow

    Kev, what persuaded you? :)

  263. Kev

    flow: I couldn't immediately persuade myself that wrapping would be *better*, and absent anything better, simple wins.

  264. Kev

    My niggling, though, is that these are not independent payloads (like e.g. reactions), but are essentially details of a single - which then speaks to the answer being 'yes' :)

  265. Alex

    memberbot is still online until ourmember meeting later today, when you are a XSF member and have not voted yet please do so.

  266. jcbrand

    I actually also lean towards yes. Putting everything inside an element with XMLNS urn:xmpp:ogp

  267. flow

    yep, but I guess it's hard to change now that it's already in the wild

  268. Kev

    JC: So do I, now.

  269. flow

    but mostly depends on the implementations, and one could support both formats

  270. jcbrand

    I'm not aware of any other implementations besides mod_ogp and Converse

  271. jcbrand

    Also mod_tweet_data

  272. ti_gj06 has left

  273. ti_gj06 has joined

  274. neshtaxmpp has joined

  275. larma has left

  276. Kev has left

  277. Kev has joined

  278. Kev has left

  279. Kev has joined

  280. goffi has left

  281. goffi has joined

  282. pjn has joined

  283. Kev has left

  284. Kev has joined

  285. goffi has left

  286. goffi has joined

  287. Mikaela has left

  288. wladmis has joined

  289. wladmis has left

  290. marc0s has left

  291. marc0s has joined

  292. wladmis has joined

  293. neshtaxmpp has left

  294. marc0s has left

  295. marc0s has joined

  296. wladmis has left

  297. marc0s has left

  298. marc0s has joined

  299. kyemxden has joined

  300. adiaholic has joined

  301. wladmis has joined

  302. atomicwatch has joined

  303. jl4 has joined

  304. adiaholic has left

  305. goffi has left

  306. goffi has joined

  307. serge90 has left

  308. ti_gj06 has left

  309. adiaholic has joined

  310. adiaholic has left

  311. serge90 has joined

  312. goffi has left

  313. goffi has joined

  314. wladmis has left

  315. jgart has left

  316. adiaholic has joined

  317. wladmis has joined

  318. adiaholic has left

  319. wladmis has left

  320. wladmis has joined

  321. wladmis has left

  322. wladmis has joined

  323. wladmis has left

  324. harry837374884 has left

  325. adiaholic has joined

  326. neshtaxmpp has joined

  327. adiaholic has left

  328. wladmis has joined

  329. goffi has left

  330. goffi has joined

  331. goffi has left

  332. Menel has left

  333. wladmis has left

  334. wladmis has joined

  335. Mikaela has joined

  336. wladmis has left

  337. jgart has joined

  338. wladmis has joined

  339. harry837374884 has joined

  340. adiaholic has joined

  341. jgart has left

  342. jonathan has joined

  343. marc0s has left

  344. marc0s has joined

  345. adiaholic has left

  346. Paganini has joined

  347. Kev has left

  348. Kev has joined

  349. jl4 has left

  350. wladmis has left

  351. adiaholic has joined

  352. Alex has left

  353. Alex has joined

  354. neshtaxmpp has left

  355. neshtaxmpp has joined

  356. Mikaela has left

  357. adiaholic has left

  358. wladmis has joined

  359. chronosx88 has joined

  360. Menel has joined

  361. adiaholic has joined

  362. wladmis has left

  363. harry837374884 has left

  364. wladmis has joined

  365. adiaholic has left

  366. wladmis has left

  367. Kev has left

  368. Kev has joined

  369. sonny has left

  370. sonny has joined

  371. Kev has left

  372. Kev has joined

  373. qrpnxz has left

  374. qrpnxz has joined

  375. sonny has left

  376. sonny has joined

  377. Menel has left

  378. adiaholic has joined

  379. Daniel has left

  380. Steve Kille has left

  381. Steve Kille has joined

  382. jinxd has joined

  383. adiaholic has left

  384. Mikaela has joined

  385. emus has left

  386. emus has joined

  387. lskdjf has joined

  388. wladmis has joined

  389. harry837374884 has joined

  390. sonny has left

  391. sonny has joined

  392. sonny has left

  393. sonny has joined

  394. Vidak has left

  395. adiaholic has joined

  396. jinxd has left

  397. jcbrand

    I updated the DOAP files for Strophe and Converse 2 weeks ago, but they're still no showing on https://xmpp.org. Does someone have to manually trigger a build? https://github.com/xsf/xmpp.org/commit/35c54712164418ef74ee46067c1c4c09e5ac9f5b

  398. Zash

    I can poke it, if all it takes is a rebuild

  399. Link Mauve

    jcbrand, you updated the wrong Strophe, you updated the C libstrophe, and not Strophe.js.

  400. jcbrand


  401. jcbrand


  402. jcbrand

    Well it can also get updated

  403. jcbrand

    Zash: please wait a moment

  404. Link Mauve

    On that note, you could also update it to use HTTPS in the link, and if you control the domain make it an automated redirection with HSTS and HSTS preload.

  405. norkki has left

  406. wladmis has left

  407. wladmis has joined

  408. jcbrand

    Done. OK if I just push? Or should I create a PR?

  409. adiaholic has left

  410. jcbrand

    Ok, I'm pushing...

  411. adiaholic has joined

  412. Matthew has left

  413. Rixon 👁🗨 has left

  414. uhoreg has left

  415. homebeach has left

  416. Half-Shot has left

  417. Half-Shot has joined

  418. Matthew has joined

  419. Rixon 👁🗨 has joined

  420. uhoreg has joined

  421. homebeach has joined

  422. wladmis has left

  423. Vidak has joined

  424. Kev has left

  425. Kev has joined

  426. Alex has left

  427. Kev has left

  428. Kev has joined

  429. Alex has joined

  430. Kev has left

  431. Kev has joined

  432. Kev has left

  433. Kev has joined

  434. floretta has left

  435. Kev has left

  436. Kev has joined

  437. Kev has left

  438. Kev has joined

  439. floretta has joined

  440. sonny has left

  441. sonny has joined

  442. sonny has left

  443. jinxd has joined

  444. sonny has joined

  445. Kev has left

  446. jinxd has left

  447. Kev has joined

  448. lskdjf has left

  449. jl4 has joined

  450. Daniel has joined

  451. Kev has left

  452. Kev has joined

  453. larma has joined

  454. goffi has joined

  455. adiaholic has left

  456. Kev has left

  457. Matthew has left

  458. Rixon 👁🗨 has left

  459. uhoreg has left

  460. homebeach has left

  461. Half-Shot has left

  462. Half-Shot has joined

  463. Matthew has joined

  464. Rixon 👁🗨 has joined

  465. uhoreg has joined

  466. homebeach has joined

  467. adiaholic has joined

  468. Kev has joined

  469. Alex has left

  470. adiaholic has left

  471. adiaholic has joined

  472. lorddavidiii has left

  473. marc0s has left

  474. marc0s has joined

  475. Alex has joined

  476. atomicwatch has left

  477. atomicwatch has joined

  478. jl4 has left

  479. jl4 has joined

  480. jinxd has joined

  481. jinxd has left

  482. papatutuwawa has joined

  483. jinxd has joined

  484. goffi has left

  485. goffi has joined

  486. jonathan has left

  487. arc has left

  488. arc has joined

  489. Zash has left

  490. Zash has joined

  491. arc has left

  492. arc has joined

  493. arc has left

  494. arc has joined

  495. arc has left

  496. arc has joined

  497. adiaholic has left

  498. arc has left

  499. arc has joined

  500. emus has left

  501. emus has joined

  502. jl4 has left

  503. arc has left

  504. arc has joined

  505. jl4 has joined

  506. belong has left

  507. chronosx88 has left

  508. chronosx88 has joined

  509. jinxd has left

  510. Menel has joined

  511. belong has joined

  512. wladmis has joined

  513. dwd has joined

  514. jl4 has left

  515. jgart has joined

  516. wladmis has left

  517. wladmis has joined

  518. wladmis has left

  519. Zash

    Awkward: XEP-0459: XMPP Compliance Suites 2022 points to XEP-0411: Bookmarks Conversion which has been Deprecated...

  520. jgart has left

  521. arc has left

  522. jl4 has joined

  523. arc has joined

  524. lorddavidiii has joined

  525. jl4 has left

  526. lorddavidiii has left

  527. papatutuwawa has left

  528. alex11 has left

  529. lorddavidiii has joined

  530. adiaholic has joined

  531. papatutuwawa has joined

  532. jinxd has joined

  533. jonas’

    luckily, it's just draft, not final

  534. jinxd has left

  535. jonas’

    I'm sure next council will love to fix that, wanna make a PR?

  536. jinxd has joined

  537. Zash

    And risk becoming the Compliance Suite Author? :S

  538. dwd

    Finally got DNS resolution working on my Openfire container again. No idea why docker makes DNS so difficult. Many apologies for missing the last Council meeting. :-(

  539. adiaholic has left

  540. adiaholic has joined

  541. belong has left

  542. wladmis has joined

  543. lskdjf has joined

  544. msavoritias has left

  545. belong has joined

  546. MattJ

    You're excused if you can blame docker

  547. ti_gj06 has joined

  548. adiaholic has left

  549. adiaholic has joined

  550. msavoritias has joined

  551. msavoritias has left

  552. arc has left

  553. arc has joined

  554. Apollo has joined

  555. xecks has left

  556. dwd

    It seems to block DNS unless you explciitly create a network, and even then it rewrites the /etc/resolv.conf on container start so it breaks. Mystery to me.

  557. jonas’


  558. Kev

    Uhm. It shouldn't do that.

  559. jonas’

    I think you might be holding it wrong.

  560. Kev


  561. dwd

    Well, I know it shouldn't.

  562. dwd

    Individual containers work, but those in a docker-compose do not, unless you explcitly create a new network.

  563. jonas’

    doesn't docker-compose **always** create a new network?

  564. jonas’

    I wish it wouldn't

  565. Kev

    I think you can persuade it not to, but yes.

  566. adiaholic has left

  567. dwd

    Yes, but it creates a default bridge network. Those don't do DNS. You need an explicitly created bridge network for DNS, apparently.

  568. ti_gj06 has left

  569. jonas’

    … they do?

  570. jonas’

    i.e. wfm

  571. dwd

    Oh. Well, I have the stuff working, kind of, now.

  572. xecks has joined

  573. Kev

    seldom:/docker/git-wfh$ cat docker-compose.yaml version: '3' services: proxy: restart: always image: git-wfh volumes: - ./repositories:/repositories env_file: environment ports: - "9022:22" seldom:/docker/git-wfh$ sudo docker-compose exec proxy /bin/bash root@d1f9dd5e803f:/# ping xmpp.org PING xmpp.org ( 56(84) bytes of data. 64 bytes from ( icmp_seq=1 ttl=50 time=78.4 ms 64 bytes from ( icmp_seq=2 ttl=50 time=78.1 ms

  574. Kev

    (A little off topic, but ... no network defined in that file, and resolution works)

  575. ti_gj06 has joined

  576. arc has left

  577. arc has joined

  578. arc


  579. adiaholic has joined

  580. MattJ


  581. arc

    Dwd your last board meeting

  582. ti_gj06 has left

  583. dwd

    It is indeed.

  584. guus.der.kinderen has joined

  585. arc

    Looks like we're bringing in JC

  586. ralphm bangs gavel

  587. ralphm

    0. Welcome + Agenda

  588. ralphm

    Welcome to the last Board Meeting of the 2020/2021 term!

  589. jonas’

    on the 635th of March, 2020

  590. ralphm

    It appears we are all present, so let's get started. What agenda items do we have?

  591. ralphm

    jonas’: hah

  592. ralphm

    jonas’: so is the next term named 2020/2022?

  593. jonas’

    that would be appropriate, and retroactively renaming this term to 2020/2020

  594. MattJ

    I don't have anything for the agenda this week

  595. adiaholic has left

  596. ralphm

    arc, dwd?

  597. dwd

    I have nothing, beyond thanks for the memories.

  598. arc

    It would be nice to wrap up some of the things we started

  599. arc

    Leave the next board with a clean slate, or at least something closer to one

  600. guus.der.kinderen has left

  601. guus.der.kinderen has joined

  602. arc

    Of course here in the states it is Thanksgiving so I'm also not really wanting a long board meeting

  603. Kev

    May we give thanks for the people on Board and Council keeping the lights on :)

  604. ralphm

    I don't think there are any long-running items still going?

  605. floretta has left

  606. floretta has joined

  607. ralphm

    Kev: indeed. And thanks for the people outside of those two teams, for keeping us on our toes!

  608. jonas’

    syncing the last state from your minds into the trello board would make sense

  609. lskdjf has left

  610. ralphm


  611. ralphm

    Well, some items on there are from before this term even. It needs thorough clean up, which I will look into

  612. arc has left

  613. arc has joined

  614. arc has left

  615. arc has joined

  616. lskdjf has joined

  617. ti_gj06 has joined

  618. rafasaurus has left

  619. ralphm

    I think all has been said for now, tbh.

  620. ralphm

    Thank you all for your efforts this term, hope next term/year will be a much better one, for XMPP and personally!

  621. ralphm

    1. Date of Next

  622. ralphm

    I pencil in +1W, to welcome the next Board after today's elections.

  623. millesimus has left

  624. ralphm

    2. Close

  625. ralphm

    Thanks all!

  626. MattJ

    Thanks all!

  627. dwd

    Thanks ralphm!

  628. jonas’

    Thank you Board for your service with the things I as a tech person don't want to have to deal with :)

  629. emus has left

  630. dwd

    And thanks MattJ and arc for keeping going next year.

  631. me9 has joined

  632. sakayke has left

  633. ralphm

    dwd: don't be a stranger :D

  634. ralphm bangs gavel

  635. arc

    Who is dwd? 😅

  636. dwd

    Speaking of that meeting, I'd best vote.

  637. ralphm

    That escalated quickly!

  638. adiaholic has joined

  639. marc has left

  640. jl4 has joined

  641. wladmis has left

  642. wladmis has joined

  643. arc

    I can't vote, tried repeatedly but Memberbot doesn't recognize me.

  644. arc

    I'll vote in the meeting

  645. Link Mauve

    Alex, ↑

  646. jonas’

    Kev or MattJ, can someone verify Alex' identity and then promote him to admin so that he can see the identities of others during the meeting for voting purposes?

  647. qrpnxz has left

  648. qrpnxz has joined

  649. jonas’

    or, indeed, ralphm

  650. karoshi has left

  651. MattJ


  652. jonas’

    :+1: thanks

  653. Alex

    arc, just let me know what your preferred Jid is and I will make sure you can vote

  654. ti_gj06 has left

  655. ti_gj06 has joined

  656. arc

    This election I'm just going to affirmatively vote yes to everyone.

  657. arc

    I had a domain name expire by accident so that needs to be fixed

  658. Alex

    I have the concordance.io on file

  659. bung has joined

  660. emus has joined

  661. karoshi has joined

  662. rafasaurus has joined

  663. ti_gj06 has left

  664. jl4 has left

  665. jl4 has joined

  666. floretta has left

  667. papatutuwawa has left

  668. floretta has joined

  669. arc


  670. jgart has joined

  671. msavoritias has joined

  672. babacb has left

  673. kyemxden has left

  674. jl4 has left

  675. ti_gj06 has joined

  676. arc has left

  677. arc has joined

  678. kyemxden has joined

  679. arc has left

  680. arc has joined

  681. kyemxden has left

  682. kyemxden has joined

  683. wladmis has left

  684. jinxd has left

  685. arc has left

  686. arc has joined

  687. jinxd has joined

  688. arc has left

  689. arc has joined

  690. alacer has joined

  691. debacle has left

  692. arc has left

  693. wladmis has joined

  694. arc has joined

  695. ti_gj06 has left

  696. ti_gj06 has joined

  697. arc has left

  698. arc has joined

  699. arc has left

  700. arc has joined

  701. arc has left

  702. arc has joined

  703. jinxd has left

  704. jinxd has joined

  705. arc has left

  706. arc has joined

  707. marc0s has left

  708. marc0s has joined

  709. Steve Kille has left

  710. kyemxden has left

  711. norkki has joined

  712. kyemxden has joined

  713. norkki has left

  714. ti_gj06 has left

  715. kyemxden has left

  716. kyemxden has joined

  717. kyemxden has left

  718. kyemxden has joined

  719. rafasaurus has left

  720. marc0s has left

  721. norkki has joined

  722. marc0s has joined

  723. marc0s has left

  724. marc0s has joined

  725. rafasaurus has joined

  726. bung has left

  727. BASSGOD has left

  728. Steve Kille has joined

  729. jinxd has left

  730. jinxd has joined

  731. arc has left

  732. arc has joined

  733. arc has left

  734. arc has joined

  735. harry837374884 has left

  736. harry837374884 has joined

  737. arc has left

  738. arc has joined

  739. debacle has joined

  740. kyemxden has left

  741. kyemxden has joined

  742. Alex

    look like its meeting time

  743. Alex

    will start in 2 minutes

  744. Seve

    Alex: memberbot does not reply to me 😔

  745. Alex

    Seve: we will fix during the meeting

  746. Alex bangs the gavel

  747. Alex

    here is our agenda for today: https://wiki.xmpp.org/web/Meeting-Minutes-2021-11-25

  748. Alex

    1) Call for Quorum

  749. Alex

    as you can see 35 members voted via proxy. So we already have a quorum

  750. Alex

    2) Items Subject to a Vote

  751. Alex

    Board and Council election, you can see the application page here: https://wiki.xmpp.org/web/Board_and_Council_Elections_2021

  752. Alex

    3) Opportunity for XSF members to Vote in the Meeting

  753. Apollo has left

  754. Alex

    Seve, when you give me your jid I will check the whitelist and make sure you can vote

  755. Apollo has joined

  756. Alex

    Seve, you still want to vote?

  757. BASSGOD has joined

  758. Alex

    Seve, can you try to vote?

  759. wladmis has left

  760. wladmis has joined

  761. Alex

    arc: you wanted to vote in the meeting as well

  762. karoshi has left

  763. marc has joined

  764. Seve

    Alex: perfect! Thank you!

  765. dwd

    I thought I'd say something just so Alex knows someone is watching. :-)

  766. pasdesushi has left

  767. Kev


  768. Alex

    Seve: have your vote recorded

  769. Alex

    looks like Arc is not here right now

  770. Seve

    Alex: yes 🙂

  771. Alex

    lets wait 2 more minutes, then I start working on the results

  772. Link Mauve

    Alex, arc already mentioned publicly the results he wanted to give.

  773. Link Mauve

    Alex, arc already mentioned publicly the votes he wanted to give.

  774. Link Mauve

    “18:32:02 arc> This election I'm just going to affirmatively vote yes to everyone.”

  775. arc


  776. arc

    Thanks Link

  777. david has joined

  778. Alex

    yes, but I need them in the meeting, Arc can you post it again?

  779. Zash

    Election secrecy is SACRED!

  780. Alex

    or I add your Jif to the whitelist and you can vote quickly

  781. arc

    Sure. I vote yes to everyone on the ballot.

  782. xecks has left

  783. Alex


  784. Alex

    okay, then we have 37 voters, pretty good this time

  785. Alex

    will shutdown memberbot then and start working on the results

  786. atomicwatch has left

  787. Alex

    4) Announcement of Voting Results

  788. Alex

    when you reload the page at: https://wiki.xmpp.org/web/Meeting-Minutes-2021-11-25#Announcement_of_Voting_Results You can see the results

  789. neshtaxmpp has left

  790. Alex

    all candiates are accepted

  791. TheCoffeMaker has left

  792. marc0s has left

  793. marc0s has joined

  794. Link Mauve

    Congrats everyone!

  795. TheCoffeMaker has joined

  796. Zash


  797. Alex

    congrats to everyone, and thanks for applying and volunteering to those roles

  798. Link Mauve

    And thanks for running. :)

  799. Alex

    5) Any other Business?

  800. dwd

    Many thanks for doing this once again, Alex.

  801. Alex

    looks like there is no other business

  802. Alex

    6) Formal Adjournment

  803. Alex

    I motion that we adjourn

  804. jcbrand

    Lots of warm and fuzzies in this room right now. Thanks everyone for your time and energy

  805. dwd


  806. Alex bangs the gavel

  807. Alex

    thanks everyone

  808. karoshi has joined

  809. ti_gj06 has joined

  810. Kev

    Thanks Alex.

  811. papatutuwawa has joined

  812. marc0s has left

  813. marc0s has joined

  814. pasdesushi has joined

  815. alacer has left

  816. guus.der.kinderen

    Thanks Alex!

  817. wladmis has left

  818. wladmis has joined

  819. andrey.g has joined

  820. nyco has left

  821. adiaholic has left

  822. ti_gj06 has left

  823. adiaholic has joined

  824. marc has left

  825. xecks has joined

  826. emus

    Many thanks Alex! I think the election participation should be listed for recent years

  827. marc has joined

  828. adiaholic has left

  829. Link Mauve

    This election brings to the spotlight something I’d really like to change in the decision process, but I’m clueless how: a kind of justification of the votes. We overwhelmingly vote “yes” in most elections, and this silences any “no” that gets thrown in, yet I have a hunch that those “no” carry a meaning that is forgotten in the process.

  830. Link Mauve

    I have no idea which form it could take, perhaps a discussion venue for members to encourage others to vote like them, or at least try to.

  831. Link Mauve

    Because more than 20% of us have been dissatisfied with some candidates, I feel like there is a reason which other members might not see just from the application pages or from daily interactions with the applicants.

  832. Link Mauve

    Do we have any data from similar organisations which tried to tackle this issue?

  833. nyco has joined

  834. adiaholic has joined

  835. belong has left

  836. karoshi has left

  837. karoshi has joined

  838. adiaholic has left

  839. kyemxden has left

  840. kyemxden has joined

  841. belong has joined

  842. Mikaela has left

  843. adiaholic has joined

  844. adiaholic has left

  845. wladmis has left

  846. mjk has left

  847. belong has left

  848. Yagiza has left

  849. millesimus has joined

  850. wladmis has joined

  851. wladmis has left

  852. wladmis has joined

  853. xecks has left

  854. sonny has left

  855. sonny has joined

  856. sonny has left

  857. sonny has joined

  858. belong has joined

  859. emus

    Link Mauve, where did you see the No-votes?

  860. millesimus has left

  861. xecks has joined

  862. Link Mauve

    emus, there were 37 members who voted, and candidates got 29 to 36 votes, you can subtract one number to the other to get how many people didn’t want to see each candidate elected.

  863. emus

    ah yes

  864. wladmis has left

  865. emus

    Ok, so what you have in mind to reject election if "no-vote" reaches a specific percentage?

  866. msavoritias has left

  867. Link Mauve

    No, I’d like to have some way(s) for members to influence others, not as a direct “do/don’t vote for that person” obviously, but something different than what we do today.

  868. Zash

    Ranked voting?

  869. Link Mauve

    Changing the percentage of votes to accept someone wouldn’t solve anything, we’d just have fewer people elected in the end.

  870. Link Mauve

    I still think each vote should be equal, whether you vote “yes” or “no”.

  871. Link Mauve

    Same reason I once wanted to know why people voted against me once I got elected for council a few years ago I think, so that I could improve on it.

  872. moparisthebest has left

  873. adiaholic has joined

  874. floretta has left

  875. bung has joined

  876. marc0s has left

  877. marc0s has joined

  878. marc0s has left

  879. marc0s has joined

  880. adiaholic has left

  881. mjk has joined

  882. wladmis has joined

  883. marc0s has left

  884. marc0s has joined

  885. adiaholic has joined

  886. serge90 has left

  887. marc0s has left

  888. marc0s has joined

  889. adiaholic has left

  890. floretta has joined

  891. qrpnxz has left

  892. qrpnxz has joined

  893. qrpnxz has left

  894. qrpnxz has joined

  895. serge90 has joined

  896. marc0s has left

  897. marc0s has joined

  898. belong has left

  899. qrpnxz has left

  900. qrpnxz has joined

  901. Apollo has left

  902. huhn has left

  903. huhn has joined

  904. belong has joined

  905. Apollo has joined

  906. papatutuwawa has left

  907. larma

    If you want to (anonymously) lobby for or against a candidate, you can already do so by writing mails to lists or messages in chat. So any attempt to influence others are already possible. However, I do like the idea to give anonymous feedback about candidates. We could add a feature to Memberbot to add a comment after the vote for each candidate. Memberbot collects those comments for each candidate and returns them to Alex independent of the vote results. Alex either forwards them to the candidate or just publishes them as part of the meeting minutes.

  908. wladmis has left

  909. wladmis has joined

  910. bung has left

  911. belong has left

  912. belong has joined

  913. larma

    That would of course require to change the voting model for board/council, as right now you don't vote for each person with 'yes' or 'no', but you just pick those you want to vote yes for. I think this is the reason why we see less votes in favor in board/council voting than in membership votes: abstain and 'no' are very similar in board/council votes, in membership votes you have to decide between 'yes' and 'no', probably causing people that would like to abstain to end up with a 'yes' - at least that's what I tend to do

  914. papatutuwawa has joined

  915. Zash

    Negative parlamentarism?

  916. Kev has left

  917. Kev has joined

  918. marc has left

  919. qrpnxz has left

  920. qrpnxz has joined

  921. qrpnxz has left

  922. qrpnxz has joined

  923. qrpnxz has left

  924. qrpnxz has joined

  925. qrpnxz has left

  926. qrpnxz has joined

  927. andrey.g has left

  928. Tobias has left

  929. qrpnxz has left

  930. qrpnxz has joined

  931. qrpnxz has left

  932. qrpnxz has joined

  933. Seve has left

  934. qrpnxz has left

  935. qrpnxz has joined

  936. Seve has joined

  937. qrpnxz has left

  938. qrpnxz has joined

  939. goffi has left

  940. goffi has joined

  941. qrpnxz has left

  942. qrpnxz has joined

  943. goffi has left

  944. goffi has joined

  945. pasdesushi has left

  946. belong has left

  947. marc0s has left

  948. marc0s has joined

  949. floretta has left

  950. jl4 has joined

  951. floretta has joined

  952. Menel has left

  953. belong has joined

  954. ti_gj06 has joined

  955. me9 has left

  956. ti_gj06 has left

  957. moparisthebest has joined

  958. karoshi has left

  959. Kev has left

  960. Kev has joined

  961. Ge0rG

    Like in council, require a comment on a -1 vote?

  962. jl4 has left

  963. Alex has left

  964. adiaholic has joined

  965. wladmis has left

  966. adiaholic has left

  967. papatutuwawa has left

  968. papatutuwawa has joined

  969. papatutuwawa has left

  970. Kev has left

  971. Kev has joined

  972. wurstsalat has left

  973. lovetox has left

  974. Titi has left

  975. lorddavidiii has left

  976. alex11 has joined

  977. adiaholic has joined

  978. lovetox has joined

  979. adiaholic has left

  980. adiaholic has joined

  981. dwd

    This just sounds like a way to further demoralise newly elected Council/Board people, to be honest.

  982. mjk has left

  983. belong has left

  984. adiaholic has left

  985. belong has joined

  986. jcbrand has left

  987. Kev has left

  988. Kev has joined