XSF Discussion - 2021-12-07

Good afternoon

😊

To me, most pages on the website seem slightly off-center (to the left). Is that just me?

Guus, now that you mention it.. the brand logo on my monitor does not align with the page (and that's centered)

Guus: tried adjusting your horizontal sync on your CRT?

har har

I'm not a web developer, but if I highlight some sections, then each section seems to be "OK". The right-hand sidebar is not filled fully, which leaves a lot of whitespace, which makes thing appear as if they're out of center, I think.

https://igniterealtime.org:443/httpfileupload/rOTFXL0c-bSzAQYa1wMN8lGkXLU/image.png

I'm unsure if this needs fixing, and if it does, how that is done. I thought I'd mention in the hopes that an actual capable webdeveloper (basically - anyone but me) has an idea. 🙂

Guus, I found some things which could be improved. I'll have a look this evening :)

Most excellent 👍

Observation: In e.g. pubsub disco#items listings, the jid of the pubsub service gets repeated a lot. E.g. as in https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0060.html#example-10 Feels ... redundant somehow. The 'jid' attr is MUST per '30 tho.

compress it!

Compression + encryption bad, remember? 😕

yes, I remember the discussion, I still think compressiing at least individual stanzas isn't harmful and would help in this case a lot ✏

yes, I remember the discussion, I still think compressing at least individual stanzas isn't harmful and would help in this case a lot ✏

and I think we either need to be sure *all* implementations switch to the safe way, or introduce a new compression mechanism that has very strong words about safety

also not all that excited about the additional memory usage compression needs

I am sure those can be allowed to turn compression off

It's not like you have to enforce compression on ppl :)

exi to the rescue

to continue repeating points from the last time we did this, fixed dictionary compression!

Daniel, got implementation?

no. i just wanted to make sure we brought up all the arguments from last time again

Zash, got money?

Daniel, 👍️

hmm how positive are we that we already brought up all the arguments? :)

Zash, I actually looked into fixed dictionary compression for a few hours and it has been unclear to me what libraries/tools actually support this

it looks like you can give zstd a starting dictionary. but emphasis on the starting

I thought zstd supported a fixed dictionary

i don’t know. my google search and reading docs didn’t bring anything up.

just have per JID dictionaries, and use some outer container format to distinguish by JID... maybe XML?

Or what about HTTP/3, it has streams!

Stream per JID pair?

Dreams of SCTP?

You could also do something like FunXMPP... except also writing it down in a XEP.

\1 → <message, \2 → <presence etc

Daniel already suggested EXI, so...

ejabberd has something like this for database compression iirc

Yeah, I heard of that.

concerning zstd: you can start with a fixed dictionary, and set a max size for the dictionary (and if that max size happens to be the size of your starting dictionary...)

that said, I don't feel compression per stanza offers full protection from the types of inspection attacks which are weaknesses for compression+encryption, though I have no proof either way

so, trade-off?

I have a half-finished compact xml representation scheme using a semi-fixed dictionary (only server can update) and forbids adding security related tokens to the dictionary; to be finished Someday™

trade-off what?

compression ratio/efficiency vs security protection

I think security is either yes or no

I think It Depends™

I'll choose 'yes', please.

the problem with naively compressing streams is that you don't have the option of not including security tokens in the compressed data - which is how most of the attacks work

but an immutable fixed dictionary should avoid that

> concerning zstd: you can start with a fixed dictionary, and set a max size for the dictionary (and if that max size happens to be the size of your starting dictionary. is there a chance that this will still mutate the dict though? theTedd

I honestly don't know, but I presume it wouldn't as that would almost certainly change the size

but I see you mean substituting entries, so I'm not sure, but I think not

right. yes I considered this 'hack' after reading the doc. but i wasn’t sure if anyone ever does this. or if it is somewhat supposed to work like this

> but I see you mean substituting entries, so I'm not sure, but I think not yes that's what i meant

Given that the docs talk about both a dictionary method and a prefix method, I would think the prefix method would be what you might call a mutable dictionary

hm can i revoke my last call feedback :D?

Email a XEP-0424 payload!

hehe

Would it be interesting to hava a XEP to "list and count" the accesses of a Pubsub item to its author ?

by basically saving each JID that requested it

edhelas, are you working for google analytics now? :P

https://i.imgflip.com/2tfsx4.jpg

or do you want to implement addictive dopamine producing features?

it's not for me, it's for my friend Mark

Zash, I'd just like to say I have equal parts hate and respect for your U+0040 / U+002E jid encoding on your membership application

Until when I have to vote again?

emus, do you mean when does voting end? up to and including the meeting on Dec 14th @ 19:00 UTC

👍️ thx

stupid bylaw question because I'm interested, what happens if the 2 recently re-elected council members who are up for a membership vote now aren't voted back in as members? kicked off council ?

Nobody knows.

ooh a mystery

> If a Council member resigns his or her membership in the Corporation, is removed from membership in the Corporation, or is terminated from membership in the Corporation, he or she shall thereby relinquish all rights and responsibilities as a member of the Council. In addition, a Council member may be involuntarily removed from the Council by an affirmative vote of two-thirds (2/3) of the members of the Council. The Council shall at its discretion determine whether to fill any vacancies on the Council caused by resignation or removal of an existing Council member. https://xmpp.org/about/xsf/bylaws/

Now we know!

I have no idea how I missed that.

I'm not good enough in English and in the ways if xsf to know if thats sarcastic, but I think its clear one can't be in the council if not a member right?

Do the Bylaws by chance share authors with XEP-0045 or XEP-0060?

Or is their affliction contagious somehow and has now spread to the Bylaws?

I once read a fantasy, where the evil force has the ability to change every written text and memory of an incident, so over time everyone remembers it wrong.. Who is in charge of the website is slowly changing the text of the xeps and the bylaws 😄. Only very slowy over time..

I'd believe it

Pfft, fantasy. I believe in Science! Therefore it must be a quantum wizard doing physics that causes the wave-function to collapse into additional sections when the XEPs are observed.

nice! I propose we elect Menel to the position of XSF lawyer

It's my favourite fantasy, I think, assuming you're referring to Mistborn, although that's *slightly* offtopic :)