phrykI'm currently wondering about moderation on XMPP services. I just read XEP-0425 and that seems to only offer message retraction – but that doesn't seem nearly enough for proper moderation…
emushas left
ZashWhat are you missing?
phrykin particular, I'm still looking for these features:
* bans
* from MUCs or the entire service
* temporarily as well as permanently
* blocking known bad servers from federation
* reporting messages in MUCs and enabling moderators to easily sight them
emushas joined
rafasaurushas joined
phrykthe last one is a bit of a doozy as i want most MUCs to be OMEMOd^^
mimi89999has left
belonghas joined
edhelaswhat is the MUC for the XMPP Communication ?
phrykedhelas, I'm not sure I follow? Are you new? A MUC is Multi-User-Chat – i.e. what we're in right now.
chronosx88has left
chronosx88has joined
KevBans from MUCs are there.
M-Link manages Bans from the service by having a 'template room' and using normal protocol on it.
Temporary bans can be achieved kludgily by just unbanning after banning.
Blocking bad servers doesn't need protocol I think, that's local server config.
Message reporting we have a protocol for, although I forget the number - what we don't have is the other half (MUC Admins being told about it).
edhelasI am talking about the MUC we're usingo to prepare the newsletter and other communications, I lost the bookmark
adiaholichas joined
jcbrandxmpp:commteam@muc.xmpp.org?join
edhelasthanks !
jcbrand👍
jgarthas left
wurstsalatFor reporting we have https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0377.html and for notifying admins there is this for prosody for example: mod_watch_spam_reports
mimi89999has joined
phrykKev, I'm extremely unsure what you're talking about with the template room and how that helps with bans from services.^^
adiaholichas left
phrykwurstsalat, I think there's some hazy language there. Is there a difference between admins and moderators (how are those even set?) and what mechanism are the "admins" contacted over? Do they just get a XMPP message from the system?
adiaholichas joined
atomicwatchhas left
wurstsalatphryk, server admin gets the report when using the module I mentioned (but that could easily be extended to something else). yes, sure there is a difference between admin and moderator. they can be set via configuration https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0045.html#affil
wgreenhousehas left
atomicwatchhas joined
stphas joined
Kevphryx - Admin vs Moderator isn't very hazy, XEP-0045 is pretty clear on the distinctions, I think.
KevAnd the template room is a room where if you set an affiliation in it, it is used for the whole service.
phrykOkay, then the current version of mod_watch_spam_reports isn't a good fit for my use-case as I want moderators to get the reports for the mucs they have moderation privileges for. So I might have to extend that one…
phrykKev, And regarding the template room that means for a service-wide ban you set the outcast affiliation for the user in the template room and then they're marked as outcast in all rooms?
Mjolnir Archonhas joined
Marandahas joined
KevThat's how M-Link does it, yes.
phrykSo the template room is an explicit implementation detail of M-Link and not specified anywhere?
chronosx88has left
chronosx88has joined
վարյաhas left
վարյաhas joined
վարյաhas left
վարյաhas joined
debaclehas joined
adiaholichas left
KevCorrect.
phrykOkay, that clears things up – thanks. :)
nycohas left
raghavgururajanhas joined
chronosx88has left
adiaholichas joined
chronosx88has joined
Yagizahas left
Marandahas left
Mjolnir Archonhas left
raghavgururajanhas left
adiaholichas left
raghavgururajanhas joined
adiaholichas joined
վարյաhas left
վարյաhas joined
inkyhas joined
goffihas joined
adiaholichas left
Calvinhas left
վարյաhas left
վարյաhas joined
Wojtekhas joined
adiaholichas joined
rafasaurushas left
jl4has joined
nycohas joined
Yagizahas joined
goffiIt seems that "Draft" is still used in status: I see it on https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0045.html (not on the right "document lifecycle" but in the header).
goffiIf I find the time today I'll propose a PR to fix that.
rafasaurushas joined
edhelasI'm wondering if there was some work or though done to have Discord/Slack... like "servers" in XMPP. I mean to group up and discover MUCs.
adiaholichas left
neshtaxmpphas joined
Calvinhas joined
Steve Killehas left
ZashThere was a group that discussed that, not sure if it stalled tho.
Steve Killehas joined
Steve Killehas left
Steve Killehas joined
chronosx88has left
chronosx88has joined
ti_gj06has left
inkyhas left
adiaholichas joined
goffiI haven't followed MIX evolution, but it's not one of the feature of MIX?
inkyhas joined
lskdjfhas joined
ZashDiscord "servers"? Not that I'm aware.
adiaholichas left
goffiI mean several rooms grouped, I kind of remember that we can link pubsub nodes to a MIX, can't we link also other rooms?
ZashMIX is pubsub, so you could probably just invent a new node and put a list there
KevThe neatest solution is, I think, to make a Discord server ~= a MUC/MIX service.
MattJYou could just as easily list MUC JIDs there ;)
edhelasKev I was actually thinking of that, but creating a new MUC service is kinda not that accessible
ZashDynamically creating MUC/MIX subdomains was a thing considered, but then you have to mess with DNS
edhelasbut indeed, you can then have proper separation, with roles, administration and all the other things
KevZash: Wildcard DNS?
ZashKev, and wildcard certs?
edhelasmaybe it's time to create services resources ? muc.xmpp.org/xmpp-world-discord-like-server
KevAh yes, the virtual hosting case again.
ZashWe have 'nodes' too
edhelasshould be re-compatible as well
Zashso xmpp:muc.xmpp.org?node=xsf could list some rooms and xmpp:muc.xmpp.org?node=thegroup could list other rooms
KevTo my mind, though, the best thing would be to work out how we get cheap MUC/MIX service setup, rather than building another layer that emulates it.
KevBecause you want membership built on top of it, admin, configuration ...
ZashEven needing one subdomain is a problem for some...
kyemxdenhas left
edhelasKev true
kyemxdenhas joined
edhelasI don't think that the admins/users will really care if the "server" is actually a subdomain, a node or something else
edhelashaving a simple form to create it and then assign an admin JID to it should be enough
kyemxdenhas left
kyemxdenhas joined
neshtaxmpphas left
antranigvhas joined
neshtaxmpphas joined
wgreenhousehas joined
Yagizahas left
Yagizahas joined
alacerhas left
marc0shas left
marc0shas joined
debaclehas left
antranigvhas left
antranigvhas joined
marc0shas left
marc0shas joined
phrykI would definitely say that the current DNS setup needed for a well-configured XMPP service is already complex enough. :P
antranigvhas left
ti_gj06has joined
yushyinedhelas, fyi xmpp:spaces@joinjabber.org?join (but the discussion has become a bit dormant)
emushas left
emushas joined
Matthewhas left
Rixon 👁🗨has left
uhoreghas left
homebeachhas left
Half-Shothas left
Half-Shothas joined
Matthewhas joined
Rixon 👁🗨has joined
uhoreghas joined
homebeachhas joined
debaclehas joined
lskdjfhas left
adiaholichas joined
edhelascan't join, looks like I still have a LE issue :(
lskdjfhas joined
Mjolnir Archonhas joined
Marandahas joined
antranigvhas joined
ti_gj06has left
jgarthas joined
adiaholichas left
alacerhas joined
antranigvhas left
djorzhas joined
L29Ahhas left
antranigvhas joined
marc0shas left
marc0shas joined
kyemxdenhas left
kyemxdenhas joined
antranigvhas left
adiaholichas joined
jgarthas left
rafasaurushas left
chronosx88has left
chronosx88has joined
inkyhas left
antranigvhas joined
antranigvhas left
paulhas left
lovetoxhas left
wladmishas joined
samuelhas left
adiaholichas left
samuelhas joined
rafasaurushas joined
adiaholichas joined
lovetoxhas joined
inkyhas joined
samuelhas left
atomicwatchhas left
atomicwatchhas joined
wladmishas left
Mikaelahas joined
wladmishas joined
wladmishas left
wladmishas joined
marc0shas left
marc0shas joined
L29Ahhas joined
wladmishas left
belonghas left
marc0shas left
marc0shas joined
marc0shas left
marc0shas joined
marc0shas left
marc0shas joined
millesimushas left
wladmishas joined
eevvoorhas left
Zashhas left
Zashhas joined
adiaholichas left
rafasaurushas left
mimi89999has left
rafasaurushas joined
mimi89999has joined
ti_gj06has joined
adiaholichas joined
stphas left
wladmishas left
COM8has joined
COM8has left
wladmishas joined
inkyhas left
belonghas joined
wladmishas left
adiaholichas left
jl4has left
adiaholichas joined
wladmishas joined
wladmishas left
adiaholichas left
paulhas joined
wladmishas joined
marc0shas left
marc0shas joined
wladmishas left
wladmishas joined
atomicwatchhas left
mjkedhelas: the history is gone anyway, but description links to https://md.roflcopter.fr/xmpp-spaces
edhelasmjk wow thanks
wladmishas left
wladmishas joined
atomicwatchhas joined
paulhas left
L29Ahhas left
wladmishas left
wladmishas joined
ti_gj06has left
mjkOmg, I didn't look at the document in a while, and now there's a whole blanket of it
marc0shas left
marc0shas joined
wladmishas left
wladmishas joined
wladmishas left
wladmishas joined
wladmishas left
wladmishas joined
wladmishas left
wladmishas joined
papatutuwawahas joined
wladmishas left
wladmishas joined
wladmishas left
jl4has joined
ti_gj06has joined
dwdhas left
adiaholichas joined
adiaholichas left
adiaholichas joined
florettahas left
adiaholichas left
rafasaurushas left
edhelasThere is no XEP that explains how messages can be "pinned" ?
MattJThe subject is basically the equivalent of a pinned message
edhelasmessageS :) that's the big deal
antranigvhas joined
ZashSurely MIX can do that?
dwdhas joined
adiaholichas joined
ZashAltho with MAM#extended it could be a list of archive IDs somewhere
uhoreghas left
homebeachhas left
Rixon 👁🗨has left
Matthewhas left
Half-Shothas left
Half-Shothas joined
Matthewhas joined
Rixon 👁🗨has joined
uhoreghas joined
homebeachhas joined
florettahas joined
paulhas joined
Johnhas joined
wladmishas joined
dan.caseleyhas left
KevI don't think that's true, MattJ.
KevThat's not the way pinned messages are used in any of the servers I'm on, at least.
edhelasSometime they are pinned afterward
antranigvhas left
MattJIt's what we have :)
KevRight, it's the best we have, it's just not equivalent.
ZashNot exactly, but pretty close
KevZash: Yes, I think archive IDs would give a 'proper' pinning mechanism.
KevIn a mIX 'pinned mesages' node
ZashMUC disco#info field? Could be prototyped pretty quickly...
KevYou'd really like something that can be pushed, rather than just queried and forgotten, because you want to know when new pins happen.
KevAnd doing it as a pubsub node gives that, plus a mechanism for actually setting them.
ZashMUC already has a 'config stuff changed, you may wanna re-disco#info' signal
KevI suppose that somewhat works if you then do a diff on the cached previous state, true.
norkkihas left
kyemxdenhas left
kyemxdenhas joined
dan.caseleyhas joined
wladmishas left
adiaholichas left
antranigvhas joined
emushas left
adiaholichas joined
wladmishas joined
emushas joined
COM8has joined
COM8has left
wladmishas left
raghavgururajanhas left
wladmishas joined
wladmishas left
antranigvhas left
mdoschhas left
mdoschhas joined
antranigvhas joined
wladmishas joined
ti_gj06has left
norkkihas joined
norkkihas left
norkkihas joined
norkkihas left
papatutuwawahas left
neshtaxmpphas left
mdoschhas left
mdoschhas joined
ti_gj06has joined
mdoschhas left
mdoschhas joined
kyemxdenhas left
kyemxdenhas joined
norkkihas joined
wladmishas left
wladmishas joined
florettahas left
jl4has left
jl4has joined
wladmishas left
wladmishas joined
wladmishas left
florettahas joined
jl4has left
jl4has joined
eevvoorhas joined
Menelhas joined
mdoschhas left
mdoschhas joined
ti_gj06has left
rafasaurushas joined
wladmishas joined
Ingolfhas left
Ingolfhas joined
kyemxdenhas left
kyemxdenhas joined
adiaholichas left
kyemxdenhas left
kyemxdenhas joined
adiaholichas joined
kyemxdenhas left
kyemxdenhas joined
kyemxdenhas left
kyemxdenhas joined
adiaholichas left
adiaholichas joined
wladmishas left
kyemxdenhas left
COM8has joined
COM8has left
reimarhas joined
kyemxdenhas joined
Johnhas left
neshtaxmpphas joined
papatutuwawahas joined
neshtaxmpphas left
neshtaxmpphas joined
florettahas left
florettahas joined
stphas joined
florettahas left
florettahas joined
kyemxdenhas left
kyemxdenhas joined
millesimushas joined
alex11has joined
wladmishas joined
kyemxdenhas left
kyemxdenhas joined
nycohas left
antranigvhas left
antranigvhas joined
kyemxdenhas left
kyemxdenhas joined
Johnhas joined
me9has joined
stphas left
wladmishas left
sebastianhas left
sebastianhas joined
jl4has left
jl4has joined
antranigvhas left
marc0shas left
marc0shas joined
marc0shas left
marc0shas joined
L29Ahhas joined
marc0shas left
marc0shas joined
antranigvhas joined
antranigvhas left
stphas joined
adiaholichas left
raghavgururajanhas joined
kyemxdenhas left
kyemxdenhas joined
ralphmbangs gavel
ralphm0. Welcome
ralphmAll on Board!
MattJo/
adiaholichas joined
stphas left
reimarhas left
adiaholichas left
nycohas joined
reimarhas joined
antranigvhas joined
ralphmOk, that clearly didn't work :D
ralphmdeclaring a non meeting. Until +1W
ralphmunbangs gavel
COM8has joined
COM8has left
ti_gj06has joined
Titihas left
kyemxdenhas left
kyemxdenhas joined
kyemxdenhas left
kyemxdenhas joined
adiaholichas joined
wladmishas joined
վարյաhas left
վարյաhas joined
վարյաhas left
վարյաhas joined
marc0shas left
marc0shas joined
edhelasralphm try a bigger gavel next time maybe
wladmishas left
debaclehas left
rafasaurushas left
atomicwatchhas left
wladmishas joined
ralphmedhelas: as a percussionist in a so-called Fanfare Band, I know my way around mallets and gavels, trust me :D
alex11has left
marc0shas left
marc0shas joined
florettahas left
djorzhas left
jcbrandralphm, MattJ: I'm sorry... I lost track of time 😞
ralphmCan happen
Titihas joined
marc0shas left
marc0shas joined
kyemxdenhas left
kyemxdenhas joined
wladmishas left
rafasaurushas joined
florettahas joined
harry837374884has left
jcbrandI've sent the minutes to members@xmpp.org but didn't receive a copy myself, looks like I'm not on the mailing list>
guus.der.kinderen> ralphm try a bigger gavel next time maybe
Or refrain from introducing nautical terminology...
guus.der.kinderenUnless you were thinking trains. In which case, ... well ... same.
sonnyhas left
sonnyhas joined
sonnyhas left
sonnyhas joined
wladmishas joined
djorzhas joined
kyemxdenhas left
kyemxdenhas joined
atomicwatchhas joined
papatutuwawahas left
wladmishas left
Kevhas left
marc0shas left
marc0shas joined
guus.der.kinderenhas left
guus.der.kinderenhas joined
debaclehas joined
sonnyhas left
sonnyhas joined
sonnyhas left
sonnyhas joined
jonas’what's wrong with trains?
Titihas left
jonas’or boats, for that matter?
Steve Killehas left
edhelasI like trains 🚄
jonas’*splat*
adiaholichas left
adiaholichas joined
sebastianhas left
sebastianhas joined
Steve Killehas joined
belonghas left
papatutuwawahas joined
adiaholichas left
stphas joined
L29Ahhas left
harry837374884has joined
wladmishas joined
ti_gj06has left
belonghas joined
wladmishas left
adiaholichas joined
Kevhas joined
marc0shas left
marc0shas joined
adiaholichas left
wladmishas joined
Kevhas left
Kevhas joined
adiaholichas joined
wladmishas left
wladmishas joined
wladmishas left
wladmishas joined
uhoreghas left
Rixon 👁🗨has left
homebeachhas left
Half-Shothas left
Matthewhas left
Half-Shothas joined
Matthewhas joined
Rixon 👁🗨has joined
uhoreghas joined
homebeachhas joined
Kevhas left
Kevhas joined
adiaholichas left
wladmishas left
wladmishas joined
ralphmjcbrand: if so, your message is probably in moderation. At best. Check with Alex or somebody from iteam
AlexJC I added you, but will check again now
wladmishas left
wladmishas joined
marc0shas left
marc0shas joined
Zashhas left
jcbrandThanks Alex, Maybe I have the wrong email address? Should be lists@ and not jc@
Alexsomething went wrong, should be fixed now
marc0shas left
jcbrands/have/gave
marc0shas joined
Alexadded the email from here:
https://wiki.xmpp.org/web/Jan-Carel_Brand_Application_2021
jcbrandSorry for the hassle but could you please change it to lists@ ?