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phryk
08:56:59
I'm currently wondering about moderation on XMPP services. I just read XEP-0425 and that seems to only offer message retraction – but that doesn't seem nearly enough for proper moderation…
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Zash
08:58:56
What are you missing?
phryk
08:59:05
in particular, I'm still looking for these features:
* bans
* from MUCs or the entire service
* temporarily as well as permanently
* blocking known bad servers from federation
* reporting messages in MUCs and enabling moderators to easily sight them
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phryk
09:00:41
the last one is a bit of a doozy as i want most MUCs to be OMEMOd^^
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edhelas
09:01:43
what is the MUC for the XMPP Communication ?
phryk
09:02:09
edhelas, I'm not sure I follow? Are you new? A MUC is Multi-User-Chat – i.e. what we're in right now.
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Kev
09:03:10
Bans from MUCs are there.
M-Link manages Bans from the service by having a 'template room' and using normal protocol on it.
Temporary bans can be achieved kludgily by just unbanning after banning.
Blocking bad servers doesn't need protocol I think, that's local server config.
Message reporting we have a protocol for, although I forget the number - what we don't have is the other half (MUC Admins being told about it).
edhelas
09:03:30
I am talking about the MUC we're usingo to prepare the newsletter and other communications, I lost the bookmark
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jcbrand
09:03:54
xmpp:commteam@muc.xmpp.org?join
edhelas
09:04:02
thanks !
jcbrand
09:04:16
👍
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wurstsalat
09:07:01
For reporting we have https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0377.html and for notifying admins there is this for prosody for example: mod_watch_spam_reports
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phryk
09:08:30
Kev, I'm extremely unsure what you're talking about with the template room and how that helps with bans from services.^^
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phryk
09:10:53
wurstsalat, I think there's some hazy language there. Is there a difference between admins and moderators (how are those even set?) and what mechanism are the "admins" contacted over? Do they just get a XMPP message from the system?
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wurstsalat
09:13:58
phryk, server admin gets the report when using the module I mentioned (but that could easily be extended to something else). yes, sure there is a difference between admin and moderator. they can be set via configuration https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0045.html#affil
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Kev
09:16:06
phryx - Admin vs Moderator isn't very hazy, XEP-0045 is pretty clear on the distinctions, I think.
Kev
09:16:35
And the template room is a room where if you set an affiliation in it, it is used for the whole service.
phryk
09:17:50
Okay, then the current version of mod_watch_spam_reports isn't a good fit for my use-case as I want moderators to get the reports for the mucs they have moderation privileges for. So I might have to extend that one…
phryk
09:21:18
Kev, And regarding the template room that means for a service-wide ban you set the outcast affiliation for the user in the template room and then they're marked as outcast in all rooms?
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Kev
09:23:10
That's how M-Link does it, yes.
phryk
09:24:37
So the template room is an explicit implementation detail of M-Link and not specified anywhere?
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Kev
09:26:59
Correct.
phryk
09:27:24
Okay, that clears things up – thanks. :)
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goffi
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It seems that "Draft" is still used in status: I see it on https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0045.html (not on the right "document lifecycle" but in the header).
goffi
09:55:32
If I find the time today I'll propose a PR to fix that.
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edhelas
09:56:06
I'm wondering if there was some work or though done to have Discord/Slack... like "servers" in XMPP. I mean to group up and discover MUCs.
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Zash
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There was a group that discussed that, not sure if it stalled tho.
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goffi
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I haven't followed MIX evolution, but it's not one of the feature of MIX?
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Zash
10:06:12
Discord "servers"? Not that I'm aware.
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goffi
10:09:39
I mean several rooms grouped, I kind of remember that we can link pubsub nodes to a MIX, can't we link also other rooms?
goffi
10:09:54
I need to re-read the specs.
edhelas
10:11:20
https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0248.html + https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0045.html ?
Zash
10:11:22
MIX is pubsub, so you could probably just invent a new node and put a list there
Kev
10:13:04
The neatest solution is, I think, to make a Discord server ~= a MUC/MIX service.
MattJ
10:13:05
You could just as easily list MUC JIDs there ;)
edhelas
10:13:56
Kev I was actually thinking of that, but creating a new MUC service is kinda not that accessible
Zash
10:14:03
Dynamically creating MUC/MIX subdomains was a thing considered, but then you have to mess with DNS
edhelas
10:14:24
but indeed, you can then have proper separation, with roles, administration and all the other things
Kev
10:14:35
Zash: Wildcard DNS?
Zash
10:14:49
Kev, and wildcard certs?
edhelas
10:15:14
maybe it's time to create services resources ? muc.xmpp.org/xmpp-world-discord-like-server
Kev
10:15:14
Ah yes, the virtual hosting case again.
Zash
10:16:05
We have 'nodes' too
edhelas
10:16:17
should be re-compatible as well
Zash
10:17:07
so xmpp:muc.xmpp.org?node=xsf could list some rooms and xmpp:muc.xmpp.org?node=thegroup could list other rooms
Kev
10:17:26
To my mind, though, the best thing would be to work out how we get cheap MUC/MIX service setup, rather than building another layer that emulates it.
Kev
10:17:47
Because you want membership built on top of it, admin, configuration ...
Zash
10:17:56
Even needing one subdomain is a problem for some...
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edhelas
10:18:01
Kev true
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edhelas
10:18:42
I don't think that the admins/users will really care if the "server" is actually a subdomain, a node or something else
edhelas
10:19:06
having a simple form to create it and then assign an admin JID to it should be enough
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phryk
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I would definitely say that the current DNS setup needed for a well-configured XMPP service is already complex enough. :P
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edhelas, fyi xmpp:spaces@joinjabber.org?join (but the discussion has become a bit dormant)
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can't join, looks like I still have a LE issue :(
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mjk
13:08:46
edhelas: the history is gone anyway, but description links to https://md.roflcopter.fr/xmpp-spaces
edhelas
13:09:20
mjk wow thanks
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mjk
13:14:45
Omg, I didn't look at the document in a while, and now there's a whole blanket of it
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edhelas
14:03:02
There is no XEP that explains how messages can be "pinned" ?
MattJ
14:04:38
The subject is basically the equivalent of a pinned message
edhelas
14:04:56
messageS :) that's the big deal
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Zash
14:05:15
Surely MIX can do that?
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Zash
14:06:19
Altho with MAM#extended it could be a list of archive IDs somewhere
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Kev
14:08:55
I don't think that's true, MattJ.
Kev
14:09:09
That's not the way pinned messages are used in any of the servers I'm on, at least.
edhelas
14:09:56
Sometime they are pinned afterward
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MattJ
14:10:17
It's what we have :)
Kev
14:10:31
Right, it's the best we have, it's just not equivalent.
Zash
14:10:44
Not exactly, but pretty close
Kev
14:10:48
Zash: Yes, I think archive IDs would give a 'proper' pinning mechanism.
Kev
14:11:06
In a mIX 'pinned mesages' node
Zash
14:11:47
MUC disco#info field? Could be prototyped pretty quickly...
Kev
14:12:34
You'd really like something that can be pushed, rather than just queried and forgotten, because you want to know when new pins happen.
Kev
14:12:52
And doing it as a pubsub node gives that, plus a mechanism for actually setting them.
Zash
14:13:02
MUC already has a 'config stuff changed, you may wanna re-disco#info' signal
Kev
14:13:29
I suppose that somewhat works if you then do a diff on the cached previous state, true.
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ralphm
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ralphm
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0. Welcome
ralphm
17:00:40
All on Board!
MattJ
17:01:04
o/
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ralphm
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Ok, that clearly didn't work :D
ralphm
17:11:36
declaring a non meeting. Until +1W
ralphm
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edhelas
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ralphm try a bigger gavel next time maybe
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ralphm
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edhelas: as a percussionist in a so-called Fanfare Band, I know my way around mallets and gavels, trust me :D
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jcbrand
17:46:48
ralphm, MattJ: I'm sorry... I lost track of time 😞
ralphm
17:47:24
Can happen
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jcbrand
18:01:08
I've sent the minutes to members@xmpp.org but didn't receive a copy myself, looks like I'm not on the mailing list>
guus.der.kinderen
18:03:34
> ralphm try a bigger gavel next time maybe
Or refrain from introducing nautical terminology...
guus.der.kinderen
18:04:44
Unless you were thinking trains. In which case, ... well ... same.
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jonas’
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what's wrong with trains?
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jonas’
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or boats, for that matter?
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edhelas
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I like trains 🚄
jonas’
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*splat*
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ralphm
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jcbrand: if so, your message is probably in moderation. At best. Check with Alex or somebody from iteam
Alex
19:08:29
JC I added you, but will check again now
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jcbrand
19:12:14
Thanks Alex, Maybe I have the wrong email address? Should be lists@ and not jc@
Alex
19:12:23
something went wrong, should be fixed now
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jcbrand
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s/have/gave
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Alex
19:12:40
added the email from here:
https://wiki.xmpp.org/web/Jan-Carel_Brand_Application_2021
jcbrand
19:13:21
Sorry for the hassle but could you please change it to lists@ ?
jcbrand
19:13:40
That's my mailing lists address
Alex
19:13:46
sure, doing now
jcbrand
19:13:51
🙏
Alex
19:14:37
done
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