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phryk
I'm currently wondering about moderation on XMPP services. I just read XEP-0425 and that seems to only offer message retraction – but that doesn't seem nearly enough for proper moderation…
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Zash
What are you missing?
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phryk
in particular, I'm still looking for these features: * bans * from MUCs or the entire service * temporarily as well as permanently * blocking known bad servers from federation * reporting messages in MUCs and enabling moderators to easily sight them
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phryk
the last one is a bit of a doozy as i want most MUCs to be OMEMOd^^
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edhelas
what is the MUC for the XMPP Communication ?
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phryk
edhelas, I'm not sure I follow? Are you new? A MUC is Multi-User-Chat – i.e. what we're in right now.
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Kev
Bans from MUCs are there. M-Link manages Bans from the service by having a 'template room' and using normal protocol on it. Temporary bans can be achieved kludgily by just unbanning after banning. Blocking bad servers doesn't need protocol I think, that's local server config. Message reporting we have a protocol for, although I forget the number - what we don't have is the other half (MUC Admins being told about it).
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edhelas
I am talking about the MUC we're usingo to prepare the newsletter and other communications, I lost the bookmark
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jcbrand
xmpp:commteam@muc.xmpp.org?join
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edhelas
thanks !
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jcbrand
👍
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wurstsalat
For reporting we have https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0377.html and for notifying admins there is this for prosody for example: mod_watch_spam_reports
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phryk
Kev, I'm extremely unsure what you're talking about with the template room and how that helps with bans from services.^^
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phryk
wurstsalat, I think there's some hazy language there. Is there a difference between admins and moderators (how are those even set?) and what mechanism are the "admins" contacted over? Do they just get a XMPP message from the system?
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wurstsalat
phryk, server admin gets the report when using the module I mentioned (but that could easily be extended to something else). yes, sure there is a difference between admin and moderator. they can be set via configuration https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0045.html#affil
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Kev
phryx - Admin vs Moderator isn't very hazy, XEP-0045 is pretty clear on the distinctions, I think.
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Kev
And the template room is a room where if you set an affiliation in it, it is used for the whole service.
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phryk
Okay, then the current version of mod_watch_spam_reports isn't a good fit for my use-case as I want moderators to get the reports for the mucs they have moderation privileges for. So I might have to extend that one…
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phryk
Kev, And regarding the template room that means for a service-wide ban you set the outcast affiliation for the user in the template room and then they're marked as outcast in all rooms?
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Kev
That's how M-Link does it, yes.
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phryk
So the template room is an explicit implementation detail of M-Link and not specified anywhere?
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Kev
Correct.
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phryk
Okay, that clears things up – thanks. :)
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goffi
It seems that "Draft" is still used in status: I see it on https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0045.html (not on the right "document lifecycle" but in the header).
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goffi
If I find the time today I'll propose a PR to fix that.
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edhelas
I'm wondering if there was some work or though done to have Discord/Slack... like "servers" in XMPP. I mean to group up and discover MUCs.
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Zash
There was a group that discussed that, not sure if it stalled tho.
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goffi
I haven't followed MIX evolution, but it's not one of the feature of MIX?
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Zash
Discord "servers"? Not that I'm aware.
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goffi
I mean several rooms grouped, I kind of remember that we can link pubsub nodes to a MIX, can't we link also other rooms?
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goffi
I need to re-read the specs.
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edhelas
https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0248.html + https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0045.html ?
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Zash
MIX is pubsub, so you could probably just invent a new node and put a list there
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Kev
The neatest solution is, I think, to make a Discord server ~= a MUC/MIX service.
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MattJ
You could just as easily list MUC JIDs there ;)
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edhelas
Kev I was actually thinking of that, but creating a new MUC service is kinda not that accessible
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Zash
Dynamically creating MUC/MIX subdomains was a thing considered, but then you have to mess with DNS
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edhelas
but indeed, you can then have proper separation, with roles, administration and all the other things
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Kev
Zash: Wildcard DNS?
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Zash
Kev, and wildcard certs?
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edhelas
maybe it's time to create services resources ? muc.xmpp.org/xmpp-world-discord-like-server
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Kev
Ah yes, the virtual hosting case again.
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Zash
We have 'nodes' too
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edhelas
should be re-compatible as well
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Zash
so xmpp:muc.xmpp.org?node=xsf could list some rooms and xmpp:muc.xmpp.org?node=thegroup could list other rooms
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Kev
To my mind, though, the best thing would be to work out how we get cheap MUC/MIX service setup, rather than building another layer that emulates it.
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Kev
Because you want membership built on top of it, admin, configuration ...
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Zash
Even needing one subdomain is a problem for some...
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edhelas
Kev true
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edhelas
I don't think that the admins/users will really care if the "server" is actually a subdomain, a node or something else
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edhelas
having a simple form to create it and then assign an admin JID to it should be enough
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phryk
I would definitely say that the current DNS setup needed for a well-configured XMPP service is already complex enough. :P
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yushyin
edhelas, fyi xmpp:spaces@joinjabber.org?join (but the discussion has become a bit dormant)
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edhelas
can't join, looks like I still have a LE issue :(
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mjk
edhelas: the history is gone anyway, but description links to https://md.roflcopter.fr/xmpp-spaces
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edhelas
mjk wow thanks
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mjk
Omg, I didn't look at the document in a while, and now there's a whole blanket of it
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edhelas
There is no XEP that explains how messages can be "pinned" ?
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MattJ
The subject is basically the equivalent of a pinned message
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edhelas
messageS :) that's the big deal
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Zash
Surely MIX can do that?
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Zash
Altho with MAM#extended it could be a list of archive IDs somewhere
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Kev
I don't think that's true, MattJ.
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Kev
That's not the way pinned messages are used in any of the servers I'm on, at least.
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edhelas
Sometime they are pinned afterward
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MattJ
It's what we have :)
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Kev
Right, it's the best we have, it's just not equivalent.
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Zash
Not exactly, but pretty close
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Kev
Zash: Yes, I think archive IDs would give a 'proper' pinning mechanism.
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Kev
In a mIX 'pinned mesages' node
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Zash
MUC disco#info field? Could be prototyped pretty quickly...
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Kev
You'd really like something that can be pushed, rather than just queried and forgotten, because you want to know when new pins happen.
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Kev
And doing it as a pubsub node gives that, plus a mechanism for actually setting them.
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Zash
MUC already has a 'config stuff changed, you may wanna re-disco#info' signal
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Kev
I suppose that somewhat works if you then do a diff on the cached previous state, true.
- ralphm bangs gavel
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ralphm
0. Welcome
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ralphm
All on Board!
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MattJ
o/
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ralphm
Ok, that clearly didn't work :D
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ralphm
declaring a non meeting. Until +1W
- ralphm unbangs gavel
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edhelas
ralphm try a bigger gavel next time maybe
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ralphm
edhelas: as a percussionist in a so-called Fanfare Band, I know my way around mallets and gavels, trust me :D
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jcbrand
ralphm, MattJ: I'm sorry... I lost track of time 😞
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ralphm
Can happen
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jcbrand
I've sent the minutes to members@xmpp.org but didn't receive a copy myself, looks like I'm not on the mailing list>
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guus.der.kinderen
> ralphm try a bigger gavel next time maybe Or refrain from introducing nautical terminology...
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guus.der.kinderen
Unless you were thinking trains. In which case, ... well ... same.
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jonas’
what's wrong with trains?
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jonas’
or boats, for that matter?
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edhelas
I like trains 🚄
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jonas’
*splat*
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ralphm
jcbrand: if so, your message is probably in moderation. At best. Check with Alex or somebody from iteam
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Alex
JC I added you, but will check again now
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jcbrand
Thanks Alex, Maybe I have the wrong email address? Should be lists@ and not jc@
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Alex
something went wrong, should be fixed now
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jcbrand
s/have/gave
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Alex
added the email from here: https://wiki.xmpp.org/web/Jan-Carel_Brand_Application_2021
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jcbrand
Sorry for the hassle but could you please change it to lists@ ?
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jcbrand
That's my mailing lists address
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Alex
sure, doing now
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jcbrand
🙏
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Alex
done
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emus
merged