XSF Discussion - 2022-01-26


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  311. Neustradamus I can create a ticket about the bad logo here: https://opencollective.com/xmpp? I have already informed a long time ago but it has been forgotten, I think, and without ticket, no following.
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  316. mjk What's bad about it? Raster?
  317. emus Neustradamus: As I recommended in my message to you yesterday, I think and still recommend you give it a bit of time before you engage in new tickets of any regard currently. You can find a decent logo in Wikipedia.
  318. Neustradamus emus: It is for this that I have posted this message here.
  319. Neustradamus mjk: Good logo is here: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:XMPP_logo.svg + https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:XMPP_logo_(without_text).svg
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  324. mjk Their canonical source is probably here: https://github.com/xsf/xmpp.org/blob/master/static/images/logos Anyway, what's _really_ horrible is the C++ pseudo-logo on the front page of xmpp.org! Here's a real one: https://github.com/isocpp/logos/blob/master/cpp_logo.svg
  325. mjk Shall I PR?
  326. Guus yesplease
  327. Neustradamus mjk: it has been updated, you can look here: https://github.com/xsf/xmpp.org/blob/master/static/images/logos
  328. Neustradamus The issue: https://github.com/xsf/xmpp.org/issues/608
  329. Neustradamus It is good now at this place
  330. Guus mjk: maybe pre-emptively point to https://isocpp.org/home/terms-of-use in your PR
  331. mjk Guus: right (I haven't studiet the ToU yet)
  332. Guus ianal, but "sure, go ahead as long as you're not suggesting we're endorsing you"
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  335. Guus How do contributions to the XSF through OpenCollective compare to the good old XSF sponsoring we also/used to have?
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  339. emus Guus: tell me more?
  340. Daniel regular sponsorship is rather expensive (for individuals) but comes with perks
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  344. emus perks?
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  347. Daniel benefits https://xmpp.org/community/sponsorship/
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  350. guus.der.kinderen Is the money earmarked differently? Should we start using OpenCollective's payment processing services (that also support recurring payments) for 'old style' sponsoring too?
  351. guus.der.kinderen Or, if there is a difference, we might want to document that publicly?
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  355. guus.der.kinderen Linking to OpenCollective from https://xmpp.org/community/sponsorship/ might draw more attention to that, which I suppose is a good thing.
  356. dwd I've just noticed that sponsors can submit blog posts to the XSF Blog. And they're vetted by the Council for some reason.
  357. guus.der.kinderen We had that since the beginning of time, I think.
  358. guus.der.kinderen One benefit of OC-for-sponsors is that it might take away our annual manual generation of invoices, which we are bad at.
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  360. guus.der.kinderen Plus, the exposure/transparency might be good.
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  371. emus > guus.der.kinderen escribió: > Linking to OpenCollective from https://xmpp.org/community/sponsorship/ might draw more attention to that, which I suppose is a good thing. could you PR what you have in mind?
  372. guus.der.kinderen I'm not sure if it is a good idea. I wanted to start a discussion here, first. 😊
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  376. dwd I'm not sure that OC is the right vehicle for corproate sponsorship, but really from the corporate sponsor's side - people do seem to like invoices and suchlike.
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  380. emus Do we do financial reporting actually?
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  383. guus.der.kinderen Doesn't OC provide those? I can imagine that they must, if.only for their accounting.
  384. guus.der.kinderen emus: our treasurer does that.
  385. dwd Sorry, to be clear: "I'm not sure that" is for once a genuine statement of uncertainty, not me being polite and British and saying "You're completely wrong".
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  388. emus guus.der.kinderen: is it public?
  389. guus.der.kinderen emus: unsure if they are published, but I don't think that they're secret.
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  392. MattJ dwd, https://docs.opencollective.com/help/expenses-and-getting-paid/submitting-expenses#invoices
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  396. MattJ It's my understanding that OC is specifically designed to be a good bridge between the corporate and FOSS worlds
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  398. emus Would be interested
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  401. Guus MattJ, that link describes invoices for the payee, I think, not the payer.
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  405. Guus > What's the difference between an individual and an organization profile? > Organizations represent a company or entity, while individual profiles represent a person. Organization profiles can have multiple team members (individual profiles) who have access to edit it and make financial contributions in its name. If a contribution or expense is for a company, it's important to use an organization profile so the correct billing information shows up on receipts and invoices. Organizations can also issue gift cards.
  406. Guus that suggests that invoices are supplied to payers
  407. dwd MattJ, Ah, nice.
  408. Guus but, stepping back: do we _want_ these contributions to go through the same mechanism?
  409. Guus I'm not seeing an immediate reason to not do this, but it's worth thinking about that for a second or two, maybe.
  410. Zash It's probably looking more Serious to send proper invoices without an intermediary
  411. Sam Just catching up, but FWIW I know a lot of organizations that do corporate sponsorship through Open Collective.
  412. dwd Yeah, I can't think of any reason as long as they handle decent invoincing, and they probably do that better than us.
  413. dwd As for intermediaries, even my plumber sends me invoivcing through Xero now.
  414. Sam As far as I know OC doesn't generate invoices in any meaningful sense though. That is, you can put your info in and it will make a single one geared towards expenses, and only if the other party is on OC themselves
  415. Sam I've been using https://app.workspace.fiverr.com/ to keep track of clients and generate recurring invoices that get automatically sent and the like, unsure if there are better options but that's been working for me (and I got it free through the freelancers union)
  416. Sam Or rather, you can upload your own invoice on OC and input the details, it doesn't really generate it.
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  429. mjk >> Anyway, what's _really_ horrible is the C++ pseudo-logo on the front page of xmpp.org! >> Shall I PR? > yesplease Done! https://github.com/xsf/xmpp.org/pull/1062
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  538. mjk ty!
  539. Neustradamus Thanks mjk!
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  544. mjk np. Wanted to do it for a long time :))
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  548. Neustradamus mjk: Never too late ^^
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  697. dwd Well, CVE-2021-4034 looks like a barrel of laughs.
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  712. moparisthebest dwd, yep linked it in xmpp operators channel yesterday https://blog.qualys.com/vulnerabilities-threat-research/2022/01/25/pwnkit-local-privilege-escalation-vulnerability-discovered-in-polkits-pkexec-cve-2021-4034 fun since 2009 !
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  715. Zash And wasn't it discovered in 2013 but not fixed?
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  719. moparisthebest ah I didn't read that ?
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  721. Zash https://www.openwall.com/lists/oss-security/2022/01/26/7
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  724. moparisthebest oof
  725. junaid well... that's embrassing
  726. moparisthebest by all means though continue writing important things in C, nothing wrong with that :D
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  775. dwd Real programmers write in C.
  776. jonas’ like pkexec?
  777. dwd Real engineers don't, but that's another matter.
  778. jonas’ oh wow
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  781. Zash programmers ^ engineers you say?
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  819. moparisthebest does anyone know of any use of https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0451.html in the wild ? cc Sam
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  823. moparisthebest on a related note, is there really not a generic way you can send a certificate along with a signature to prove you have the associated private key ? (outside of TLS negotiation, that is)
  824. Zash stop right there, before you invent something like what email, matrix or mastodon uses
  825. MattJ DKIX?
  826. Zash Why would you need to anyway?
  827. moparisthebest MattJ, searches aren't really fruitful, happen to know any more words? :)
  828. Zash Anything sent via TLS is implicitly signed by the TLS cert key, no?
  829. Zash What problem are you trying to solve?
  830. moparisthebest Zash, to avoid dialback/mux, for piggybacking
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  833. MattJ moparisthebest, sorry, it was a name proposal, not an existing technology. Zash has been complaining about DKIM all week.
  834. moparisthebest you just "hey looks like you also serve muc.yourdomain, care to send me the cert to prove it? thanks!"
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  836. moparisthebest or the other direction, "hey I'm already connected/authenticated to you for example.org, but I also host muc.example.org and have a few stanzas to send, here's proof"
  837. Zash renegotiation and ask for another client cert? good thing renegotiation has been killed with fire
  838. Zash how about this solution: don't
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  841. jonas’ moparisthebest, I don't quite yet see the problem statement :)
  842. moparisthebest wouldn't it be a lot nicer than everything else ? assuming it was simple and secure that is
  843. Zash demand it be covered by SAN in the already sent certificate or open another connection
  844. moparisthebest jonas’, avoiding dialback/mux/extra connections
  845. jonas’ what's wrong with mux?
  846. jonas’ I mean I can agree on dialback being bad
  847. jonas’ but I don't see what's wrong with mux or even multiple TCP streams (though you may now say file descriptors, I'll raise you a "rate limiting is much easier if you only have a single stream per entity)
  848. jonas’ but I don't see what's wrong with mux or even multiple TCP streams (though you may now say file descriptors, I'll raise you a "rate limiting is much easier if you only have a single stream per entity")
  849. jonas’ so, what is the *problem* you're trying to solve, not the thing you're trying to make fancier :)
  850. moparisthebest mux is better than dialback, that's why I was asking about implementations
  851. Zash I'm firmly in the "use BIDI, burn dialback, be happy" camp
  852. moparisthebest but it'd be even better to *not* have to create new connections
  853. Zash Because really, how much does multiplexing really give you?
  854. Zash (Actual question that I would like to see answered with statistics and surveys)
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  857. moparisthebest the end game here is I'm working on a spec for XMPP-over-QUIC, and so have the opportunity to make all the good things MUST
  858. moparisthebest bidi, mux, forbid dialback, it's all on the table
  859. moparisthebest I don't want to *invent* a way to prove you have a cert outside of TLS, but it's kind of something I assume exists already, somewhere, and if it was nice, it could be good to re-use
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  867. jonas’ oh right
  868. jonas’ I meant bidi, not MUX
  869. jonas’ just BIDI, KISS things.
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  871. moparisthebest or you could forbid BIDI by only allowing one-way streams for s2s connections, which is a concept QUIC supports
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  873. moparisthebest you can open multiple streams per connection, either way actually
  874. jonas’ moparisthebest, IIRC you need the back channel actually
  875. jonas’ for stream errors or so
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  877. moparisthebest yea that's what I concluded too, just stating the options
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  879. moparisthebest multiplexing without head-of-line blocking would be pretty nice for s2s though
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  882. moparisthebest could be for a client with multiple accounts on the same server as well, I guess
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  998. moparisthebest Is there precedent for deprecating half of a final xep? Specifically the zlib method of https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0138.html
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  1005. jonas’ moparisthebest: unlikely
  1006. Zash awkward with MTI
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  1022. moparisthebest So, suggestions? Deprecate whole thing and next method can re-spec it in a separate xep ?
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  1025. moparisthebest Probably wouldn't make sense to make it a new xep now with no methods...
  1026. jonas’ yeah, probably obsolete the entire thing
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  1184. Zash Anyone know how to turn 3 sentences into an informal XEP about the proper procedure for service discovery?©
  1185. Zash Anyone know how to turn 3 sentences into an informal XEP about the proper procedure for service discovery?
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  1193. moparisthebest slap some XML tags around it and send it to the editor
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  1197. Zash `echo "Start with disco#info the domain part of your JID, then disco#items and recurse, but don't get into an infinite loop." | pandoc -t tools/2xep.lua`
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  1199. Zash missing *all* the required metadata!
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  1203. Zash Tho it could just as well be a section of XEP-0030
  1204. Zash > Version 2.5rc3 (2017-10-03) still so weird
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  1328. qwestion Hi noob here, so sorry if I should RTFM or ask elsewhere first, but I didn't find much in my xmpp hist about status.im, its tech and what xsf/xmpp devs think of them?
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  1331. qwestion Unrelated : https://tidelift.com/ is other possible complement to opencollective
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  1347. moparisthebest qwestion, status.im is not XMPP and is therefore trash not worth considering :D
  1348. Zash Not XMPP? Not on-topic. Simple as that.
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  1479. emus After I told Neustradamus to stop highlighting people, he is doing it again. Maybe more steps are necessary now.
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  1482. emus Sorry, different repository, but related to xmpp. got confused
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  1512. Neustradamus emus: The error is human, I forgive you.
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  1526. Neustradamus For information, maybe some people had not seen, I have renamed https://github.com/scram-xmpp/info/issues/1 to https://github.com/scram-sasl/info/issues/1 for a better deployment :) I am verry happy to see that SCRAM is increasingly used. The work done for many years shows success. I want to thank the developers who have been able to move this in our community.
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