XSF Discussion - 2022-02-23


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  75. moparisthebest do we have any XML experts here? are XSDs used in practice and do they matter at all?
  76. moparisthebest context: XEP-0156 and the WebSocket RFC refer to host-meta XML format defined here https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc6415#appendix-A
  77. moparisthebest that links to https://docs.oasis-open.org/xri/xrd/v1.0/xrd-1.0.html
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  79. moparisthebest which hilariously says: > The following URI will always reference the latest version of this file: http://docs.oasis-open.org/xri/xrd/v1.0/xrd-1.0.xsd
  80. moparisthebest and that URL is a 404 hehe
  81. moparisthebest but here is the real XSD https://docs.oasis-open.org/xri/xrd/v1.0/os/xrd-1.0-os.xsd
  82. moparisthebest except, the example given in rfc6415#appendix-A is not valid according to that XSD
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  84. moparisthebest the XSD requires <Expires/> comes before <Subject/>
  85. moparisthebest so: 1. it looks like we can add attributes and tags to <Link/> and it'll stay valid according to that XSD *if* they are in a different namespace 2. but does it matter? does anyone care if we *don't* namespace them differently?
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  95. moparisthebest Zash, re: our discussion the other day about incoming s2s sasl external and DANE, what about DNSSEC without DANE ?
  96. moparisthebest example.org does DNSSEC and has xmpp.bob.com as a SRV record, when you connect, it gives you a cert for xmpp.bob.com, you trust it
  97. moparisthebest what do you do when you get an incoming s2s claiming to be from example.org but giving you a cert for xmpp.bob.com ? lookup all SRV records over DNSSEC and offer SASL EXTERNAL if *any* of the names match ?
  98. moparisthebest (do any implementations do this?)
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  269. Kev 345 is live now, isn't it?
  270. Kev We seem to have some applications not including the mandatory information.
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  275. flow Which is probably not surprising given that we don't make it easy to discover the mandatory information. I wouldn't know where to find it, for example. bylaws?
  276. Kev It's in 345.
  277. Kev But how one discovers that, I don't know.
  278. Zash Link from the wiki page?
  279. Kev Ah, no, the wiki *does* say what is mandatory.
  280. Kev So I think missing stuff off isn't a problem with discoverability at all.
  281. flow It does indeed. To be fair, I haven't read the whole page since I first applied probably
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  343. Guus > do we have any XML experts here? are XSDs used in practice and do they matter at all? XSD matter, just not in XMPP.
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  345. Guus As they were never normative for XMPP, they're effectively stripped from their primary raison d'etre.
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  401. Guus Wasn't there a question regarding bare vs full JIDs in subscriptions the other day? I just happened to stumble over RFC 6121 Section 3.1.1:
  402. Guus > When a user sends a presence subscription request to a potential instant messaging and presence contact, the value of the 'to' attribute MUST be a bare JID <contact@domainpart> rather than a full JID <contact@domainpart/resourcepart>,
  403. sebastian Something Sam and me discussed in the Wordle MUC: "Spoiler warnings"... Anyone considered spoiler warnings in XMPP clients? I like the way they are implemented in Mastodon e.g. One could hide some sensitive information behind it. Of course needs Client support...
  404. MattJ Guus, technically the question was about full JIDs in the roster, which isn't necessarily the same as having a subscription
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  406. MattJ Guus, but dangerously close, which is why I advised against allowing it (even though the RFC does not explicitly disallow it)
  407. Guus MattJ: I didn't recall the details. Just happened to read over this. :)
  408. Guus 3.1.2 further says: > If the JID is of the form <contact@domainpart/resourcepart> instead of <contact@domainpart>, the user's server SHOULD treat it as if the request had been directed to the contact's bare JID and modify the 'to' address accordingly.
  409. Guus but, yeah.
  410. MattJ sebastian, https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0382.html
  411. sebastian HA... great... thanks MattJ
  412. MattJ sebastian, implemented in at least Converse.js I believe, not sure what others
  413. sebastian never seen it somewhere, didn't consider googling it... 😀
  414. Sam I was just about to post that :) I was filing an issue against Conversation to see if daniel would consider it.
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  440. mjk emus: I just noticed there's one lingering instance of 'Draft' in the newsletter: > The feedback gathered during the Last Call help improving the XEP before returning it to the Council for advancement to Draft. It's probably in some template file somewhere, but I couldn't locate it yet
  441. emus mjk: what would be correct? can you create an issue?
  442. mjk emus: "for advancement to Stable." would be correct todayb seemed like a too tiny thing to open an issue for, but if you want, I'll do it
  443. mjk Agh, how the hell did I manage to edit my message instead of writing a new one?!
  444. mjk emus: ↑↑
  445. emus wurstsalat: does above make sense to you too?
  446. emus mjk: is fine, Im on the run and did not wanted to forget
  447. mjk #1084 Now you won't :))
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  449. mjk I hope I won't edit away _that one_ by mistake
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  453. emus mjk: thanks! if nothing works, feel free to use the comment function in the online pad
  454. mjk Alright!
  455. emus thanks
  456. emus the online pad is access for "additing" without account etc
  457. moparisthebest Guus: that XRD thing isn't XMPP specific, though maybe we are the only users? But it's xsd is 404 and the example in the RFC doesn't validate
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  462. Guus moparisthebest: I am not familiar with the XRD or its purpose - I was only talking about XSDs in general.
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  467. moparisthebest Guus: we use it for Bosh + websocket discovery
  468. moparisthebest I was wondering if we could extend the XML, and if we need to bother with making our extensions validate with the xsd
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  472. Guus moparisthebest: If we're defining that we adhere to an XSD but do not, we should simply drop the XSD reference.
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  475. Guus it's somewhat analogous to claiming to do XMPP (and add the corresponding definitions in the stream elements), but adding other stanzas than IQ/presence/message to the stream.
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  477. Guus Do not tell your consumers that you're adhering to a data structure definition, when you willingly do not: that will only lead to problems.
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  484. moparisthebest makes sense, thanks!
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