XSF Discussion - 2022-03-07


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  170. Kev emus: Great, thank you!
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  174. emus With pleasure!
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  249. vanitasvitae The current situation around Ukraine and especially Russia really shines another light on disappearing (self-destructing) messages.
  250. vanitasvitae Maybe those should be revisited
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  270. MattJ vanitasvitae: what's the connection exactly?
  271. vanitasvitae I feel like for people in russia who are chatting with people from abroad, now is possibly a good time to activate disappearing messages when talking about certain topics / naming certain events
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  279. Guus There are reports of people being stopped by authorities in the street, not being allowed to leave until they've looked at your phone. I'm not sure if this is new, or not happening in other places - but I can see how this supports the argument for having ephemeral messages.
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  282. vanitasvitae exactly
  283. Guus Not sure if there ever was an argument to not have a XEP for ephemeral messages?
  284. Guus A quick google results in https://xmpp.org/extensions/inbox/ephemeral-messages.html
  285. vanitasvitae I can only speak for myself, but I mostly rejected the idea so far, as the sender cannot guarantee that the receiver really deletes the message. I have not really considered that ephemeral messages are also intended to protect the sender
  286. vanitasvitae But I changed my mind 🙂
  287. Zash Push for clients to have a "clear the last n minutes of history" button or something? Doesn't strictly have to be a protocol
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  289. Zash And will you always know ahead of time what messages may be considered incriminating in the future?
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  291. vanitasvitae I like signals model of activating disappearing messages per conversation
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  294. MattJ vanitasvitae, Conversations already supports clearing history after a period of time
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  296. Guus If other IM solutions have forms of ephemeral messages, then that's a strong suggestion that there is a end-user desire to have this. I'm not sure if it is up to us to debate if that demand is valid. With that in mind, 'properly' supporting it with a XEP seems reasonable. I'm not sure if we can reasonably guarantee that messages are indeed removed (as we can't control the implementation), but that's a matter for the security notes in the XEP, I think.
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  300. qy "ephemeral encryption" might be more useful. Not so much "clear recent history", but if you delete the keys to an encrypted message, useful metadata remains, but incriminating content gone, and with OMEMO using a key-per-message, quite possible
  301. Zash Isn't OMEMO already like that?
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  304. qy Most impls store all key for all messages forever and give no option to delete them
  305. qy But yes with a client reset, it would be
  306. qy No perfect forward secrecy
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  308. Daniel I'm reasonably certain that most implementations throw the key away but keep a plain text copy of the message
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  310. qy Oh thats even worse
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  404. emus MattJ, ralphm, arc, jcbrand: any vetos to add the members list to the community/maillists page? https://mail.jabber.org/pipermail/members/
  405. emus I think its missing there
  406. emus https://xmpp.org/community/mailing-lists/
  407. Sam It's an internal list that people can't join so it doesn't seem useful to have it on a community mailing lists page
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  410. emus agreed. but maybe we should have it there out if completeness
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  412. ralphm Well, the archives are public, so I don't mind adding it there, with the note that you have to be a member to be able to subscribe. Or somesuch.
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  414. emus of course
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  437. Sam oh I was thinking the archives were private; nevermind, that makes sense then
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  680. emus FYI
  681. emus https://summerofcode.withgoogle.com/programs/2022/organizations/xmpp-standards-foundation
  682. emus Yes, I am fixing things already 🙂
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  710. moparisthebest microsoft just emailed me a security code and it was "5222" <_< >_>
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  712. Zash thanks for sharing that
  713. emus 😀
  714. emus Thats a sign!
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  717. moparisthebest yea a sign *they* are watching
  718. moparisthebest pulls tin foil hat on tighter
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  782. emus https://twitter.com/xmpp/status/1500966819045199873 https://fosstodon.org/web/@xmpp/107917701995916850
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  789. moparisthebest Excellent work again emus
  790. emus 😙️ Thanks you moparisthebest ❤️
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