XSF Discussion - 2022-03-08

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emus 09:22:42
Hey folks, if we want this celebration soon, we would need more contributions: https://yopad.eu/p/xmpp-celebration2022-365days If not, no problem, its just that I would not continue with this. Let me know your feedback
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Guus 09:34:38
emus: I welcome the initiative, but I'm not much of a story teller myself.
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emus 09:36:50
Is alright! you can also use it to shortly tell how it backs your software for example (if it makes that easier). I just intended to give some directions, but no need to.
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emus 09:38:23
Guus: I am also happy to simply post an image of your beloved XMPP shirts 😅 I assume this is the true proof of loyality 😉
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Zash 09:40:36
With the covid crisis over, can we gather in that tunnel and take a group picture now?
Zash 09:41:29
Although I imagine getting there hasn't gotten easier :/
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jonas’ 09:42:59
just everyone take a picture in front of a green/white screen and have the rest being done by photoshop
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emus 09:54:11
That's the motivation I wanna hear! 😍
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Ingolf 11:43:17
> we are accepted into gsoc \o/ Congratulations This is good news for the spread of Jabber/XMPP! It's nice that Google allowed it, when they shut down their Jabber/XMPP. The good browser 'Vivaldi' is working on a Jaber/XMPP chat, which will then be integrated into the browser ;-)
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Ingolf 13:01:16
> The current situation around Ukraine and especially Russia really shines another light on disappearing (self-destructing) messages. > Maybe those should be revisited Very good thought ;-)
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larma 13:08:07
I remember some discussion about multipart/alternative in messaging: apparently matrix just moved from their "limited html + markdownish plain text fallback" to some multi mime format that looks featurewise similar to multipart/alternative: https://www.artificialworlds.net/blog/2022/03/08/comparison-of-matrix-events-before-and-after-extensible-events/
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lovetox 14:09:30
and? is this not what we had with xhtml?
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Zash 14:09:58
and is email really something worth taking ideas from?
lovetox 14:10:45
~~it sure is simpler then whatever we wanted to do with adding information which codepoint is formed in which way~~ ✎
lovetox 14:10:53
it sure is simpler than whatever we wanted to do with adding information which codepoint is formed in which way ✏
Zash 14:11:00
having it formally written down that <body> and xhtml-im are variants of the "same" content is good tho, if that isn't already written somewhere
lovetox 14:11:17
but has other drawbacks, i think for example when encrypting and you dont have full stanza encryption it is error prone
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mathieui 14:26:20
Zash, it was already normative
mathieui 14:27:13
("In Jabber/XMPP communications, the meaning (as opposed to markup) of the message MUST always be represented as best as possible in the normal <body/> child element or elements of the <message/> stanza qualified by the 'jabber:client' (or 'jabber:server') namespace. ")
Zash 14:27:48
Right-o
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moparisthebest 14:40:54
but also that's useless and cannot be relied upon
moparisthebest 14:41:09
not that we don't have the exact same problem with the multiple-language support
Zash 14:41:31
It's not like multipart/alternative solves anything, just structures it differently
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mathieui 14:46:56
moparisthebest, unless you provide a lightweight, deterministic multi-language validator & generator that anyone can embed into their clients to ensure that all multipart elements can be narrowed down to the text representation, this is going to be hard
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moparisthebest 14:49:36
right, so it's really just best to only support sending 1 body representation so there is never any ambiguity
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mathieui 15:06:48
well, if you can accept having your meaning polluted with inline markup, yes
Zash 15:07:24
https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0394.html to the rescue
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moparisthebest 15:09:51
right, don't do that either, pollute your *own* text with inline markup like we've been doing since ye olden days
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Ge0rG 17:36:07
So I've done a bunch of grepping of XEPs for xmlns'es, and got some artifacts where I'm not sure if they are editorial or normative.
Ge0rG 17:36:25
https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0406.html#example-4 is using <pubsub xmlns='http://jabber.org/protocol/'> which is not the pubsub xmlns
Ge0rG 17:37:16
https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0105.html#example-1 is mixing /profile/ and /protocol/ in funny ways
Ge0rG 17:38:25
https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0087.html#example-4 is using xmlns='http://jabber.org/si' instead of /protocol/si/
Ge0rG 17:38:32
cc jonas’ maybe?
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mathieui 17:42:03
the protocol police strikes again
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moparisthebest 17:43:04
If they are wrong they are editorial and if they are right they are normative, problem solved
Ge0rG 17:43:38
https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0072.html#example-8 is using xmlns='http://jabber.org/protocol/si-pub' and example 9 has /sipub
Ge0rG 17:43:47
~~moparisthebest: you do't say~~ ✎
Ge0rG 17:44:01
moparisthebest: you don't say ✏
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Ge0rG 17:50:37
https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0390.html mentions a non-existing /protocol/iqibb namespace
moparisthebest 17:52:02
Ge0rG: don't forget 156 linking to a registry that doesn't exist
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Ge0rG 18:04:08
I've created a first version of a namespace to XEP mapping in apache redirect format, to be rolled out on jabber.org. https://op-co.de/tmp/namespacemap.txt is the file, I've briefly reviewed it but errors are well possible. CC MattJ
Ge0rG & 18:04:10
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jonas’ 20:39:30
Ge0rG, make PRs
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