XSF Discussion - 2022-03-08


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  288. emus Hey folks, if we want this celebration soon, we would need more contributions: https://yopad.eu/p/xmpp-celebration2022-365days If not, no problem, its just that I would not continue with this. Let me know your feedback
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  297. Guus emus: I welcome the initiative, but I'm not much of a story teller myself.
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  300. emus Is alright! you can also use it to shortly tell how it backs your software for example (if it makes that easier). I just intended to give some directions, but no need to.
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  305. emus Guus: I am also happy to simply post an image of your beloved XMPP shirts 😅 I assume this is the true proof of loyality 😉
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  309. Zash With the covid crisis over, can we gather in that tunnel and take a group picture now?
  310. Zash Although I imagine getting there hasn't gotten easier :/
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  312. jonas’ just everyone take a picture in front of a green/white screen and have the rest being done by photoshop
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  317. emus That's the motivation I wanna hear! 😍
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  384. Ingolf > we are accepted into gsoc \o/ Congratulations This is good news for the spread of Jabber/XMPP! It's nice that Google allowed it, when they shut down their Jabber/XMPP. The good browser 'Vivaldi' is working on a Jaber/XMPP chat, which will then be integrated into the browser ;-)
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  441. Ingolf > The current situation around Ukraine and especially Russia really shines another light on disappearing (self-destructing) messages. > Maybe those should be revisited Very good thought ;-)
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  446. larma I remember some discussion about multipart/alternative in messaging: apparently matrix just moved from their "limited html + markdownish plain text fallback" to some multi mime format that looks featurewise similar to multipart/alternative: https://www.artificialworlds.net/blog/2022/03/08/comparison-of-matrix-events-before-and-after-extensible-events/
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  467. lovetox and? is this not what we had with xhtml?
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  469. Zash and is email really something worth taking ideas from?
  470. lovetox it sure is simpler then whatever we wanted to do with adding information which codepoint is formed in which way
  471. lovetox it sure is simpler than whatever we wanted to do with adding information which codepoint is formed in which way
  472. Zash having it formally written down that <body> and xhtml-im are variants of the "same" content is good tho, if that isn't already written somewhere
  473. lovetox but has other drawbacks, i think for example when encrypting and you dont have full stanza encryption it is error prone
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  481. mathieui Zash, it was already normative
  482. mathieui ("In Jabber/XMPP communications, the meaning (as opposed to markup) of the message MUST always be represented as best as possible in the normal <body/> child element or elements of the <message/> stanza qualified by the 'jabber:client' (or 'jabber:server') namespace. ")
  483. Zash Right-o
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  487. moparisthebest but also that's useless and cannot be relied upon
  488. moparisthebest not that we don't have the exact same problem with the multiple-language support
  489. Zash It's not like multipart/alternative solves anything, just structures it differently
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  494. mathieui moparisthebest, unless you provide a lightweight, deterministic multi-language validator & generator that anyone can embed into their clients to ensure that all multipart elements can be narrowed down to the text representation, this is going to be hard
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  496. moparisthebest right, so it's really just best to only support sending 1 body representation so there is never any ambiguity
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  501. mathieui well, if you can accept having your meaning polluted with inline markup, yes
  502. Zash https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0394.html to the rescue
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  504. moparisthebest right, don't do that either, pollute your *own* text with inline markup like we've been doing since ye olden days
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  590. Ge0rG So I've done a bunch of grepping of XEPs for xmlns'es, and got some artifacts where I'm not sure if they are editorial or normative.
  591. Ge0rG https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0406.html#example-4 is using <pubsub xmlns='http://jabber.org/protocol/'> which is not the pubsub xmlns
  592. Ge0rG https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0105.html#example-1 is mixing /profile/ and /protocol/ in funny ways
  593. Ge0rG https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0087.html#example-4 is using xmlns='http://jabber.org/si' instead of /protocol/si/
  594. Ge0rG cc jonas’ maybe?
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  597. mathieui the protocol police strikes again
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  599. moparisthebest If they are wrong they are editorial and if they are right they are normative, problem solved
  600. Ge0rG https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0072.html#example-8 is using xmlns='http://jabber.org/protocol/si-pub' and example 9 has /sipub
  601. Ge0rG moparisthebest: you do't say
  602. Ge0rG moparisthebest: you don't say
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  607. Ge0rG https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0390.html mentions a non-existing /protocol/iqibb namespace
  608. moparisthebest Ge0rG: don't forget 156 linking to a registry that doesn't exist
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  621. Ge0rG I've created a first version of a namespace to XEP mapping in apache redirect format, to be rolled out on jabber.org. https://op-co.de/tmp/namespacemap.txt is the file, I've briefly reviewed it but errors are well possible. CC MattJ
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