XSF Discussion - 2022-03-11

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01:50:34 moparisthebest Any thoughts on best practices re: .onion XMPP servers? I'm planning on actually writing this down in a xep I'm thinking for outgoing connections, do starttls on the regular ports or direct TLS on 443 and accept literally any certificate on incoming s2s just make an outgoing connection and validate that the certificate is the same, then offer sasl external Thoughts, good, bad, whatever?
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02:22:13 TheCoffeMaker ~~moparisthebest: It would be great, this can also be applied to other VPNs ... Some friemd of mine have some large networks made with tinc and they are exchanging and maintaining root CAs~~ ✎
02:22:29 TheCoffeMaker moparisthebest: It would be great, this can also be applied to other VPNs ... Some friend of mine have some large networks made with tinc and they are exchanging and maintaining root CAs ✏
02:23:14 moparisthebest I think in other places where transport security and authentication isn't guaranteed like it is with .onion sharing a CA is the right thing to do and just works
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02:28:43 TheCoffeMaker Yes, but is hard to maintain updated and coordinated
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06:11:14 moparisthebest MattJ, I vaguely recall you mentioning you didn't like the SRV weight algorithm and did something else?
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06:44:51 MattJ moparisthebest: I don't like it, but I didn't do much else
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06:45:43 MattJ I have a patch for Prosody I'm sitting on for now (needs further testing)
06:47:32 moparisthebest MattJ: what did you do differently and/or care to share the code?
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07:04:30 MattJ https://matthewwild.co.uk/uploads/prosody-srv-weighting.diff
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07:41:54 MattJ IIRC I'm following the RFC pretty closely with this implementation. My main complaint is the inefficiency of it, but every optimization suggested so far hasn't produced the same outputs as the RFC would in every case
07:43:03 MattJ We did discuss putting a limit on the number of records we would attempt to process
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08:17:32 mjk moparisthebest: > Any thoughts on best practices re: .onion XMPP servers? I'm planning on actually writing this down in a xep > ::: Mentioning http client behavior would be nice as well, I think. As in, allow any cert. Btw, relaxing the requirement to do specifically TLS in the http upload xep (instead, only require _some_ equivalently secure form of transport security) would be nice as well, but oos, it seems :)
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08:20:49 mjk emus: > i want to occasionally post about e.g. new XEPs > "XEP-1234 has been proposed! > Short description > Author" > Image ^ May I suggest adding to this info the essential effects of the xep addition/change for end users? ("Products, not protocols", etc.)
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10:53:18 emus mjk: Well, XSF is protocols
10:53:26 emus and its not that I will post this very frequentlt
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11:31:51 mjk Well yeah, what I suggest is more like "products + protocols", so that non-tech audience isn't completely left out
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11:43:21 Link Mauve “22:13:08 moparisthebest> writing specs is annoying, writing code is fun...”, absolutely completely untrue!!!
11:44:01 jonas’ +1
11:44:23 Zash producolts
11:44:38 Ge0rG writing code is fun. Debugging code... less so
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11:56:31 mjk Debugging specs that has no running code is...
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11:57:29 Ge0rG mjk: ...a hobby of mine
11:58:02 Ge0rG finding underspecified parts and race conditions just from reading the text and thinking "what might go wrong" is exciting
12:00:05 mjk Right... Exciting... /me still healing the trauma of running a mathy algorithm partly in head, partly on paper because printf would be too verbose
12:00:46 mjk Or too much effort writing the formatting code
12:02:00 jonas’ .oO(#[derive(Debug)])
12:02:49 mjk ~~jonas’: Is that some Wolfram vodoo?~~ ✎
12:02:57 mjk jonas’: Is that some Wolfram voodoo? ✏
12:03:14 jonas’ no, rust
12:03:19 mjk Oh
12:04:20 jonas’ ~~applied to a struct, it generates the code necessary to use it with the {:?} placeholder, dumping all of its contents.~~ ✎
12:04:34 jonas’ applied to a struct, enum or tuple declaration, it generates the code necessary to use it with the {:?} placeholder, dumping all of its contents. ✏
12:05:18 emus Again said I tend to troll without intention^^
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12:07:01 emus This what I want (example) as a tweet:
12:07:41 mjk jonas’: Ah, I thought it processes a function to generate debugging instrumentation :)) But there are debuggers for that, I guess. In my case I was lazy to research step-by-step debugging of Lua, _and_ wanted to visualze the data in a fancy manner...
12:08:28 emus A new XEP has been proposed *XEP-0461: Message Replies* *Abstract* This document defines a way to indicate that a message is a reply to a previous message. *Authors* Natalie WirthMarvin Wissfeld https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0461.html
12:08:51 emus https://jabbers.one:5281/upload/F4f6DxRCgcfJMNN5/20220310_221533585_7bc5.png
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12:36:59 emus now I killed the discussion? 😅
12:38:34 mjk ~~Or it's just _that_ perfect that nobody has anything to sdd ;p~~ ✎
12:38:39 mjk Or it's just _that_ perfect that nobody has anything to add ;p ✏
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12:39:09 emus Ah cool - I just go ahead 🎉😉
12:39:49 emus But I hope its clear what I wanted to discuss. I think I spread some confusion
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12:40:45 mjk ~~But I have! > *Abstract* > This document defines a way to indicate that a message is a reply to a previous message. "(Allows clients to have nice quotation UI.)". or something~~ ✎
12:41:09 mjk But I have! > *Abstract* > This document defines a way to indicate that a message is a reply to a previous message. "(Allows clients to have nice quotation UI.)" or something ✏
12:42:12 emus That is also fine to restate the abstract for non-techs
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12:43:06 mjk nods
12:43:07 emus ~~I always wou'd like to start saying: > This specification standardizes ...~~ ✎
12:43:15 emus I always would like to start saying: > This specification standardizes ... ✏
12:43:26 emus because this is key. It works for "everyone"
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12:52:49 Ge0rG Isn't every standard specification meant to standardize something?
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12:53:28 Ge0rG State the obvious with too many words, lose readers on the way
12:54:31 msavoritias But maybe it helps devs from othes ecosystems realize how more democratic things work around here ;)
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12:58:50 Ge0rG Doing this right is really hard, maybe we should hire a competent technical writer.
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13:04:48 emus > Ge0rG escribió: > State the obvious with too many words, lose readers on the way I think it clarifies that this was the intention. Noone has officially standardises this yet, we do
13:05:29 emus And also said: Yes, and we standardized THIS
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13:14:11 emus I will move this to editors muc
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13:39:01 moparisthebest mjk: good call about specifically documenting https behavior on onions too
13:40:48 moparisthebest MattJ: thanks I'll have a look, fwiw I don't think producing the same output as the SRV RFC is that valuable, vs just maximizing connection attempts
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18:29:18 emus guus, just ignore
18:29:43 emus @all please remind to set labels if you merge PRs - that would be very helpful
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19:17:34 xnamed > Thank you Alex! Welcome, Ali! Thank you Guus > Welcome Ali! Thank you emus > Congrats to all, welcome Ali, and thanks for your support! Thank you Neustradamus Thank you all for accepting my application 😊
19:18:10 moparisthebest Quick rundown of encrypted client hello https://guardianproject.info/2021/11/30/implementing-tls-encrypted-client-hello/
19:18:41 moparisthebest This will allow connecting to XMPP servers while hiding ALPN and SNI
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19:28:25 emus The circumstance "nobody" care about protocols the posts just crossed the 1700 followers 😌️ https://twitter.com/xmpp/status/1502364409020268544 https://fosstodon.org/web/@xmpp/107939539350756647
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19:29:04 Menel Wow
19:30:04 emus 6 retweets in 1 minute at Friday night ^^
19:30:39 emus 10
19:31:08 moparisthebest Not "nobody" just not "normal people"
19:31:27 Zash We're all "nobody" here.
19:31:34 moparisthebest 100% of the people in this channel or that follow that account care :)
19:31:58 emus Good --> retweet etc 😉
19:32:24 emus Zash - you did already I saw that 🙂 good job!
19:33:17 Zash Marketing goes brrrrr
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19:33:47 emus 🕺️
19:34:23 emus Lol, we have almost the same retweets as the latest newsletter ^^
19:34:27 emus on Fost.
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19:44:51 moparisthebest https://burtrum.org/up/34510860-cae4-467d-811f-5e16d01f9e71/9wqjWU9CQtKgpDow7mfH8Q.jpg
19:45:06 moparisthebest The way husky crops that image is... Less than ideal lol
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19:45:46 emus Its all weirdly cropped. I made a better version already for the next time
19:46:17 Zash P SPEC
19:46:41 Zash https://cerdale.zash.se/s/T7K4K8gd8cZn3k6Lp0hR5PTz/0e2e3788-89a5-44ba-bd5e-9a41a189f57f.png
19:47:00 moparisthebest Looks fine in mobile Firefox:
19:47:06 moparisthebest https://burtrum.org/up/60b68a4f-0890-4ca9-bb4a-8275a536130a/yiLtel7ASnuC91V1Ga5x5A.jpg
19:47:33 emus Guys, I raised this today and yesterday several times, but apart from almost 95% offtopic comments nothing, so please come with proposals next time -.-
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19:47:51 Zash https://cerdale.zash.se/s/G1gOfXkSfZ8BIuWyMYvilWlQ/25c1c82f-f6cc-40b7-a8e7-1c4af01d1036.png
19:47:54 emus The last link is what I intended
19:47:55 moparisthebest This kind of thing makes me so glad I'm not a UI developer
19:48:01 emus from morap
19:48:08 Zash emus, it's late on a friday, feel free to ignore everything until tomorrow 😉
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19:48:23 emus Yes^^
19:49:08 moparisthebest To be clear I don't think there is anything you could do about this
19:49:41 emus I can
19:50:09 emus https://jabbers.one:5281/upload/Z32YMVzVzhVlVHKa/bd4445f3-603e-4550-90a8-c8ad2af8dfdd.png
19:51:03 Zash Isn't there some optimal resolution documented somewhere?
19:51:07 moparisthebest Nifty
19:52:06 emus larma said I should ask for some volunteers on corporate design. So please go crazy. But I would like to keep it in its own design (thats why I made it grey mode)
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19:53:25 emus MattJ, no that I disagree with your "products, not protocols" - but I see lots of retoots already ;)
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19:55:21 larma https://larma.de:5281/upload/ph8N3K_FGl-sNAQw/852eb62e-2bf2-4e2f-a643-5ca8a175b8c8.png
19:55:36 larma So apparently, they should be 16:9
19:56:04 emus but what happens if I remove this?
19:56:09 emus is it then native?
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19:56:27 larma this is a display setting, it doesn't affect what is send
19:56:36 emus oh yes
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19:56:44 emus I was already amused
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19:56:53 larma and it's enabled by default, so most users will have it enabled
19:57:01 emus yeah
19:57:17 larma thus you should assume things to be cropped 16:9, and thus best way to make sure it looks good is to also send 16:9 😉
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20:02:54 emus Yes, I just cropped it accordingly
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20:26:47 mjk > https://cerdale.zash.se/s/G1gOfXkSfZ8BIuWyMYvilWlQ/25c1c82f-f6cc-40b7-a8e7-1c4af01d1036.png The specificat appurroves
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21:44:05 emus ...
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23:47:03 moparisthebest Interesting https://prav.app/ cc Daniel , also maybe newsletter material?
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