XSF Discussion - 2022-04-12

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  231. edhelas Would it be possible to have a module on the conference module or the user servers to filter out the useless keys for encrypted messages ?
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  234. edhelas In muc, all the encryption keys for all the participants are broadcasted to everyone, and basically the server only need to send the ones needed for each JID to decrypt its own
  235. edhelas I more see that on the receiver servers, basically the server keep track of its users JID OMEMO keys ids and filter on those for each encrypted messages transfered
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  244. MattJ Yes, that could be done. I'm planning to work on some server-side enhancements for OMEMO, especially in MUCs, so this could probably go in too
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  324. alacer What will be the impact of this filter on users in MUC with Multi-Devices
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  326. MattJ No impact
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  429. Guus When retrieving the member-list of a room, https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0045.html#modifymember says that the returned items MAY include the 'nick' (and 'role') attribute for each member that is currently an occupant.
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  432. Guus I'm wondering if there's a way to get the list of nicknames that has been reserved in a room.
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  434. Guus I initially thought that the member-list includes that, but I guess the nickname in use does not need to be the nickname that's reserved?
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  436. Guus In any case: knowing the nicknames of members not currently in the room would be nice. How to do that?
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  604. lovetox Guus, there is no way ..
  605. lovetox how would that work if every user can use whatever nick he wants on join
  606. lovetox the question is why would you need the nick?
  607. lovetox you want to display offline users?
  608. lovetox then this would be more of a server feature than a client one
  609. lovetox server just needs to send a presence even for offline people with last known nick
  610. lovetox i think MattJ did develop something for prosody
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  612. Zash Guus, are you thinking that there may be reserved nicknames that is not part of the set of affiliated users?
  613. Zash I'd think that each reserved nickname is attached to an affiliation
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  615. Link Mauve Guus, completely unrelated to your issue, but XEP-0463 might be of interest to you.
  616. Link Mauve To retrieve the complete list of affiliations.
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  632. emus Dear XMPP Community, you may have heard about the XMPP Providers project [1] already. It has a new approach to provide a curated list of XMPP providers based on hard and soft criteria. The project also provides the evaluation machine-readable. Client developers can integrate them in their applications. We approach this topic from a user-centric perspective and question what enables a good first start with XMPP when possibly coming from other environments. We created a separate website to present the results in a nice view. That way, it is convenient to read them. Feel free to take a look: https://providers.xmpp.net We put lots of effort, thoughts and discussions into this project to make the listings and evaluations as transparent and clear as possible. All criteria for the categorization are explained on our new website's FAQ section [2]. If you are a server operator and want to add or edit information, please ensure to first update your website. Otherwise, we cannot reference the information in the source file that is used to generate the provider lists. Then follow the contribution guideline to add your information [3]. We will create a MUC soon, so you can get in touch with us. Many thanks to MattJ for the technical backend support and deployment. Looking forward, XMPP Providers Team CC: emus, melvo, wurstsalat [1] https://invent.kde.org/melvo/xmpp-providers [2] https://providers.xmpp.net/faq/#how-are-categories-determined [3] https://invent.kde.org/melvo/xmpp-providers/-/blob/master/CONTRIBUTING.md
  633. jonas’ that looks nice, emus
  634. jonas’ where's the CSS though?
  635. moparisthebest looks excellent!
  636. emus Many thanks! But it is also the work of us three
  637. moparisthebest https://providers.xmpp.net/provider/conversations.im/ is wrongly listed as paid if someone wants to try to beat me to a PR, I won't be able to get to it for awhile
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  639. emus Please first ensure that the information is on the domain website of the operators (transparency)
  640. stpeter emus: thanks to you and your colleagues for working on this!!!
  641. emus 🙏️
  642. stpeter IMHO we could use the operators chatroom for discussion about this
  643. emus Yes, that is alright - we wanted to share here first
  644. stpeter I look forward to redirecting https://github.com/stpeter/xmppdotnet to the appropriate repository
  645. Zash close *all* the PRs 😀
  646. stpeter That too!
  647. emus stpeter - have you deployed that to a website too? or was xmpp.net this some years ago?
  648. stpeter This repository used to feed the list at xmpp.net
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  651. Zash the list at https://xmpp.net/directory.php specifically
  652. emus Okay thanks
  653. stpeter As you can see, the repository is quite old and hasn't been maintained because I am a bad person.
  654. stpeter bbiaf
  655. emus all good
  656. emus you are not 🙂
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  659. wurstsalat jonas’, the CSS ?
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  662. jonas’ wurstsalat, it was glaring bright and I might look into how to dark theme it
  663. jonas’ but I couldn't find it in the repository
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  665. emus I created an issue for this
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  667. wurstsalat jonas’, good idea :) https://github.com/xsf/xmpp-providers-website/tree/master/themes/xmpp-providers/assets/css
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  673. mjk Small world I didn't know you people were behind the project. :) Gods' work!
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  675. emus Thanks, it was a long time Melvin and me. Wurstsalat join recently regarding the website
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  701. mjk Small "bug report": the [Details] button could use some more contrast/prominence and maybe a rename to [Full details]. IMO this would allow a visitor to obtain answers to "What?! Why?!" much more quickly. :))
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  706. mjk And another: The 'Shared files are stored up to ...' phrasing seems a bit awkward to me. Do I understand right that total file storage quota is what's meant here?
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  715. emus Yes that's correct
  716. wurstsalat thanks mjk
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  720. wurstsalat we'd appreciate feedback from native speakers! :)
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  723. mjk Alas, I'm not one! Just my english sense tingling
  724. emus 😊️ is alright!
  725. mjk I dunno how to say it _elegantly_, but 'Shared files are stored until the quota of X is exceeded' would be much clearer
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  728. mjk And render the unlimited case as 'Unlimited file storage quota'
  729. emus Thanks, yes we had our discussions on this, too 🙂 We will review this topic
  730. mjk :thumb-up:
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  736. stpeter https://github.com/stpeter/xmppdotnet updated - all issues and PRs closed, README updated to point to the new repository!
  737. mjk Hmm. 'You cannot register on this provider' for disroot.org seems false. I know they have a "non-realtime" registration procedure, but there _is_ one (onless they closed xmpp registrations specifically)
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  747. melvo mjk: Thanks for the detailed review. Please have a look at https://invent.kde.org/melvo/xmpp-providers/-/blob/master/providers.json#L773 for disroot.org's web registration.
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  758. melvo If I suggest that provider to someone on Friday and that person tries to register on Saturday, it will fail. That is the reasone, why it is set to `false`.
  759. melvo If I suggest that provider to someone on Friday and that person tries to register on Saturday, it will fail. That is the reason, why it is set to `false`.
  760. melvo If I suggest that provider to someone on Friday and that person tries to register on Saturday, it will fail. That is the reason why it is set to `false`.
  761. mjk melvo: oh, right, it's on weekdays only, now I remember. Still a long way to 'you cannot'. Maybe needs a note to be rendered on the page?
  762. mjk Can still be cointed as 'false' formally
  763. mjk Can still be counted as 'false' formally
  764. emus Yes, we saw a wide spectra if implementation beyond want what common sense may expects
  765. mjk Haha, that's free federation for you :))
  766. emus Another visualization: UWPX deployed a reference implementation hiw this could look like in the end: https://twitter.com/UWPX_APP/status/1408512845248188428?s=20&t=q1-JCnH3g2yG3bS-KeWTNg
  767. mjk "Registrations only on rainy Thursdays!"
  768. emus > mjk escribió: > Haha, that's free federation for you :)) Yes it is. But we just had to adjust the tool to cases we didnt expect
  769. emus > mjk escribió: > Haha, that's free federation for you :)) Yes it is. we just had to adjust the tool to cases we didnt expect
  770. mjk Right, a boolean is alright
  771. emus > mjk escribió: > Right, a boolean is alright often we thought its sufficient 🤷‍♂️
  772. emus but reality is a greyzone
  773. melvo https://github.com/xsf/xmpp-providers-website/pull/35
  774. mjk > https://twitter.com/UWPX_APP/status/1408512845248188428 That's very cool
  775. melvo mjk: Here is the outcome of your feedback :)
  776. mjk melvo: thanks!
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  778. melvo Thank you for spotting that!
  779. mjk My nitpicking duty!
  780. emus 👍
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  843. mathieui emus: as a server operator I do feel like getting down from A to C because http uploads are limited to 10 MiB is a bit too much opinionated. Especially when the service is fee of charge
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  845. mathieui (Not that I care too much, but getting a "bad" rating means we will get annoyed to death with requests to change our limits to fit that arbitrary standard)
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  847. moparisthebest just make the checkbox green mmkay
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  851. mathieui (But the website looks great and it will prove a very useful resource when people want to choose a server, so thanks for the work :p)
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  853. emus mathieui: We recommend to possibly increase the filesize limit, but decrease the totalfilesize storage. So you can still keep it to a level but let user have more space to send bigger files. Videos often expand this easily for example. Would that be an option for you?
  854. emus > mathieui escribió: > (But the website looks great and it will prove a very useful resource when people want to choose a server, so thanks for the work :p) Thanks still!
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  872. mathieui emus, we might want to take advantage of what is available in the new prosody file share module, yes
  873. emus Yes, we have that on our review too
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  902. mjk The limit-per-upload always seemed kinda silly for me as a user. "So, I can upload a thousand 10-MiB photos? Cool! :))" Technically, I understand that it comes from implementations handling the whole file in memory, and possibly also from the lack of (better) quota calculation. With these things out of the way, what's still technically stopping operators from lifting the per-upload limit entirely?
  903. Zash Next problem is that uploads of very large files might get interrupted and can't be resumed.
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  905. Zash mjk, can't answer for other implementations but with Prosody 0.12+ it's just a matter of configuration.
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  908. mjk Nice. Also, clients would need to start displaying the total limit in addition to/instead of the per-file one.
  909. Zash Problem: That's not communicated in the protocol
  910. Zash There's a way to say "you have to wait until $time before you can upload a file of that size" but no way to communicate quotas or such
  911. mjk Aha, as feared
  912. mjk Aha, as I feared
  913. mjk > Next problem is that uploads of very large files might get interrupted and can't be resumed. Right, but let clients worry about communicating this risk to people, mwahaha
  914. Zash XEP patch welcome 😉
  915. mjk :)
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  917. Zash I'd think that (interrupted uploads) a HTTP problem rather than an XMPP problem.
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  919. mjk Yes, but I'm sure google can fix that in their next revision of http
  920. mjk If they didn't already!
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  922. Zash Inb4 moparisthebest points out that HTTP/3 already fixes everything somehow
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  926. lovetox Zash i actually think you can communicate the wait to date thing
  927. lovetox its in the xep
  928. Zash lovetox, that's what I said. you can communicate that, but not anything else
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  937. lovetox ah ok i misread
  938. Zash and that's in an error, when you already tried to ask for a slot
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  951. moparisthebest Nothing stops you from implementing resumable uploads with http, or even compressed uploads
  952. moparisthebest There's just no already existing spec for it
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