XSF Discussion - 2022-04-12

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  231. edhelas

    Would it be possible to have a module on the conference module or the user servers to filter out the useless keys for encrypted messages ?

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  234. edhelas

    In muc, all the encryption keys for all the participants are broadcasted to everyone, and basically the server only need to send the ones needed for each JID to decrypt its own

  235. edhelas

    I more see that on the receiver servers, basically the server keep track of its users JID OMEMO keys ids and filter on those for each encrypted messages transfered

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  244. MattJ

    Yes, that could be done. I'm planning to work on some server-side enhancements for OMEMO, especially in MUCs, so this could probably go in too

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  324. alacer

    What will be the impact of this filter on users in MUC with Multi-Devices

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  326. MattJ

    No impact

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  429. Guus

    When retrieving the member-list of a room, https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0045.html#modifymember says that the returned items MAY include the 'nick' (and 'role') attribute for each member that is currently an occupant.

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  432. Guus

    I'm wondering if there's a way to get the list of nicknames that has been reserved in a room.

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  434. Guus

    I initially thought that the member-list includes that, but I guess the nickname in use does not need to be the nickname that's reserved?

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  436. Guus

    In any case: knowing the nicknames of members not currently in the room would be nice. How to do that?

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  604. lovetox

    Guus, there is no way ..

  605. lovetox

    how would that work if every user can use whatever nick he wants on join

  606. lovetox

    the question is why would you need the nick?

  607. lovetox

    you want to display offline users?

  608. lovetox

    then this would be more of a server feature than a client one

  609. lovetox

    server just needs to send a presence even for offline people with last known nick

  610. lovetox

    i think MattJ did develop something for prosody

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  612. Zash

    Guus, are you thinking that there may be reserved nicknames that is not part of the set of affiliated users?

  613. Zash

    I'd think that each reserved nickname is attached to an affiliation

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  615. Link Mauve

    Guus, completely unrelated to your issue, but XEP-0463 might be of interest to you.

  616. Link Mauve

    To retrieve the complete list of affiliations.

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  632. emus

    Dear XMPP Community, you may have heard about the XMPP Providers project [1] already. It has a new approach to provide a curated list of XMPP providers based on hard and soft criteria. The project also provides the evaluation machine-readable. Client developers can integrate them in their applications. We approach this topic from a user-centric perspective and question what enables a good first start with XMPP when possibly coming from other environments. We created a separate website to present the results in a nice view. That way, it is convenient to read them. Feel free to take a look: https://providers.xmpp.net We put lots of effort, thoughts and discussions into this project to make the listings and evaluations as transparent and clear as possible. All criteria for the categorization are explained on our new website's FAQ section [2]. If you are a server operator and want to add or edit information, please ensure to first update your website. Otherwise, we cannot reference the information in the source file that is used to generate the provider lists. Then follow the contribution guideline to add your information [3]. We will create a MUC soon, so you can get in touch with us. Many thanks to MattJ for the technical backend support and deployment. Looking forward, XMPP Providers Team CC: emus, melvo, wurstsalat [1] https://invent.kde.org/melvo/xmpp-providers [2] https://providers.xmpp.net/faq/#how-are-categories-determined [3] https://invent.kde.org/melvo/xmpp-providers/-/blob/master/CONTRIBUTING.md

  633. jonas’

    that looks nice, emus

  634. jonas’

    where's the CSS though?

  635. moparisthebest

    looks excellent!

  636. emus

    Many thanks! But it is also the work of us three

  637. moparisthebest

    https://providers.xmpp.net/provider/conversations.im/ is wrongly listed as paid if someone wants to try to beat me to a PR, I won't be able to get to it for awhile

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  639. emus

    Please first ensure that the information is on the domain website of the operators (transparency)

  640. stpeter

    emus: thanks to you and your colleagues for working on this!!!

  641. emus


  642. stpeter

    IMHO we could use the operators chatroom for discussion about this

  643. emus

    Yes, that is alright - we wanted to share here first

  644. stpeter

    I look forward to redirecting https://github.com/stpeter/xmppdotnet to the appropriate repository

  645. Zash

    close *all* the PRs 😀

  646. stpeter

    That too!

  647. emus

    stpeter - have you deployed that to a website too? or was xmpp.net this some years ago?

  648. stpeter

    This repository used to feed the list at xmpp.net

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  651. Zash

    the list at https://xmpp.net/directory.php specifically

  652. emus

    Okay thanks

  653. stpeter

    As you can see, the repository is quite old and hasn't been maintained because I am a bad person.

  654. stpeter


  655. emus

    all good

  656. emus

    you are not 🙂

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  659. wurstsalat

    jonas’, the CSS ?

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  662. jonas’

    wurstsalat, it was glaring bright and I might look into how to dark theme it

  663. jonas’

    but I couldn't find it in the repository

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  665. emus

    I created an issue for this

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  667. wurstsalat

    jonas’, good idea :) https://github.com/xsf/xmpp-providers-website/tree/master/themes/xmpp-providers/assets/css

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  673. mjk

    Small world I didn't know you people were behind the project. :) Gods' work!

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  675. emus

    Thanks, it was a long time Melvin and me. Wurstsalat join recently regarding the website

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  701. mjk

    Small "bug report": the [Details] button could use some more contrast/prominence and maybe a rename to [Full details]. IMO this would allow a visitor to obtain answers to "What?! Why?!" much more quickly. :))

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  706. mjk

    And another: The 'Shared files are stored up to ...' phrasing seems a bit awkward to me. Do I understand right that total file storage quota is what's meant here?

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  715. emus

    Yes that's correct

  716. wurstsalat

    thanks mjk

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  720. wurstsalat

    we'd appreciate feedback from native speakers! :)

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  723. mjk

    Alas, I'm not one! Just my english sense tingling

  724. emus

    😊️ is alright!

  725. mjk

    I dunno how to say it _elegantly_, but 'Shared files are stored until the quota of X is exceeded' would be much clearer

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  728. mjk

    And render the unlimited case as 'Unlimited file storage quota'

  729. emus

    Thanks, yes we had our discussions on this, too 🙂 We will review this topic

  730. mjk


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  736. stpeter

    https://github.com/stpeter/xmppdotnet updated - all issues and PRs closed, README updated to point to the new repository!

  737. mjk

    Hmm. 'You cannot register on this provider' for disroot.org seems false. I know they have a "non-realtime" registration procedure, but there _is_ one (onless they closed xmpp registrations specifically)

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  747. melvo

    mjk: Thanks for the detailed review. Please have a look at https://invent.kde.org/melvo/xmpp-providers/-/blob/master/providers.json#L773 for disroot.org's web registration.

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  758. melvo

    If I suggest that provider to someone on Friday and that person tries to register on Saturday, it will fail. That is the reasone, why it is set to `false`.

  759. melvo

    If I suggest that provider to someone on Friday and that person tries to register on Saturday, it will fail. That is the reason, why it is set to `false`.

  760. melvo

    If I suggest that provider to someone on Friday and that person tries to register on Saturday, it will fail. That is the reason why it is set to `false`.

  761. mjk

    melvo: oh, right, it's on weekdays only, now I remember. Still a long way to 'you cannot'. Maybe needs a note to be rendered on the page?

  762. mjk

    Can still be cointed as 'false' formally

  763. mjk

    Can still be counted as 'false' formally

  764. emus

    Yes, we saw a wide spectra if implementation beyond want what common sense may expects

  765. mjk

    Haha, that's free federation for you :))

  766. emus

    Another visualization: UWPX deployed a reference implementation hiw this could look like in the end: https://twitter.com/UWPX_APP/status/1408512845248188428?s=20&t=q1-JCnH3g2yG3bS-KeWTNg

  767. mjk

    "Registrations only on rainy Thursdays!"

  768. emus

    > mjk escribió: > Haha, that's free federation for you :)) Yes it is. But we just had to adjust the tool to cases we didnt expect

  769. emus

    > mjk escribió: > Haha, that's free federation for you :)) Yes it is. we just had to adjust the tool to cases we didnt expect

  770. mjk

    Right, a boolean is alright

  771. emus

    > mjk escribió: > Right, a boolean is alright often we thought its sufficient 🤷‍♂️

  772. emus

    but reality is a greyzone

  773. melvo


  774. mjk

    > https://twitter.com/UWPX_APP/status/1408512845248188428 That's very cool

  775. melvo

    mjk: Here is the outcome of your feedback :)

  776. mjk

    melvo: thanks!

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  778. melvo

    Thank you for spotting that!

  779. mjk

    My nitpicking duty!

  780. emus


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  843. mathieui

    emus: as a server operator I do feel like getting down from A to C because http uploads are limited to 10 MiB is a bit too much opinionated. Especially when the service is fee of charge

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  845. mathieui

    (Not that I care too much, but getting a "bad" rating means we will get annoyed to death with requests to change our limits to fit that arbitrary standard)

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  847. moparisthebest

    just make the checkbox green mmkay

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  851. mathieui

    (But the website looks great and it will prove a very useful resource when people want to choose a server, so thanks for the work :p)

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  853. emus

    mathieui: We recommend to possibly increase the filesize limit, but decrease the totalfilesize storage. So you can still keep it to a level but let user have more space to send bigger files. Videos often expand this easily for example. Would that be an option for you?

  854. emus

    > mathieui escribió: > (But the website looks great and it will prove a very useful resource when people want to choose a server, so thanks for the work :p) Thanks still!

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  872. mathieui

    emus, we might want to take advantage of what is available in the new prosody file share module, yes

  873. emus

    Yes, we have that on our review too

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  902. mjk

    The limit-per-upload always seemed kinda silly for me as a user. "So, I can upload a thousand 10-MiB photos? Cool! :))" Technically, I understand that it comes from implementations handling the whole file in memory, and possibly also from the lack of (better) quota calculation. With these things out of the way, what's still technically stopping operators from lifting the per-upload limit entirely?

  903. Zash

    Next problem is that uploads of very large files might get interrupted and can't be resumed.

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  905. Zash

    mjk, can't answer for other implementations but with Prosody 0.12+ it's just a matter of configuration.

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  908. mjk

    Nice. Also, clients would need to start displaying the total limit in addition to/instead of the per-file one.

  909. Zash

    Problem: That's not communicated in the protocol

  910. Zash

    There's a way to say "you have to wait until $time before you can upload a file of that size" but no way to communicate quotas or such

  911. mjk

    Aha, as feared

  912. mjk

    Aha, as I feared

  913. mjk

    > Next problem is that uploads of very large files might get interrupted and can't be resumed. Right, but let clients worry about communicating this risk to people, mwahaha

  914. Zash

    XEP patch welcome 😉

  915. mjk


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  917. Zash

    I'd think that (interrupted uploads) a HTTP problem rather than an XMPP problem.

  918. adiaholic has left

  919. mjk

    Yes, but I'm sure google can fix that in their next revision of http

  920. mjk

    If they didn't already!

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  922. Zash

    Inb4 moparisthebest points out that HTTP/3 already fixes everything somehow

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  926. lovetox

    Zash i actually think you can communicate the wait to date thing

  927. lovetox

    its in the xep

  928. Zash

    lovetox, that's what I said. you can communicate that, but not anything else

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  937. lovetox

    ah ok i misread

  938. Zash

    and that's in an error, when you already tried to ask for a slot

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  951. moparisthebest

    Nothing stops you from implementing resumable uploads with http, or even compressed uploads

  952. moparisthebest

    There's just no already existing spec for it

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