XSF Discussion - 2022-04-14


  1. restive_monk has joined
  2. Half-Shot has left
  3. homebeach has left
  4. Matthew has left
  5. uhoreg has left
  6. Half-Shot has joined
  7. Matthew has joined
  8. homebeach has joined
  9. uhoreg has joined
  10. Thilo Molitor has left
  11. Thilo Molitor has joined
  12. adiaholic has joined
  13. goffi has left
  14. Half-Shot has left
  15. homebeach has left
  16. Matthew has left
  17. uhoreg has left
  18. Half-Shot has joined
  19. Matthew has joined
  20. homebeach has joined
  21. uhoreg has joined
  22. Apollo has left
  23. adiaholic has left
  24. restive_monk has left
  25. bung has joined
  26. adiaholic has joined
  27. restive_monk has joined
  28. Half-Shot has left
  29. homebeach has left
  30. Matthew has left
  31. uhoreg has left
  32. Half-Shot has joined
  33. Matthew has joined
  34. homebeach has joined
  35. uhoreg has joined
  36. adiaholic has left
  37. Ingolf has joined
  38. վարյա has left
  39. վարյա has joined
  40. adiaholic has joined
  41. adiaholic has left
  42. gooya has left
  43. millesimus has left
  44. Kev has left
  45. Steve Kille has left
  46. Steve Kille has joined
  47. Kev has joined
  48. Kev has left
  49. Kev has joined
  50. antranigv has left
  51. Titi has left
  52. antranigv has joined
  53. Titi has joined
  54. Half-Shot has left
  55. homebeach has left
  56. Matthew has left
  57. uhoreg has left
  58. Half-Shot has joined
  59. Matthew has joined
  60. homebeach has joined
  61. uhoreg has joined
  62. daags has joined
  63. վարյա has left
  64. վարյա has joined
  65. millesimus has joined
  66. neshtaxmpp has left
  67. neshtaxmpp has joined
  68. antranigv has left
  69. adiaholic has joined
  70. stp has left
  71. qwestion has joined
  72. վարյա has left
  73. վարյա has joined
  74. qwestion has left
  75. nuron has left
  76. qwestion has joined
  77. nuron has joined
  78. antranigv has joined
  79. antranigv has left
  80. Yagiza has joined
  81. xnamed has left
  82. APach has left
  83. bung has left
  84. djorz has left
  85. chipmnk has left
  86. restive_monk has left
  87. pasdesushi has joined
  88. antranigv has joined
  89. raghavgururajan has joined
  90. antranigv has left
  91. adiaholic has left
  92. adiaholic has joined
  93. kinetik has left
  94. adiaholic has left
  95. adiaholic has joined
  96. atomicwatch has joined
  97. adiaholic has left
  98. adiaholic has joined
  99. restive_monk has joined
  100. adiaholic has left
  101. adiaholic has joined
  102. antranigv has joined
  103. Sam has left
  104. adiaholic has left
  105. adiaholic has joined
  106. Sam has joined
  107. atomicwatch has left
  108. adiaholic has left
  109. adiaholic has joined
  110. Sam has left
  111. antranigv has left
  112. adiaholic has left
  113. adiaholic has joined
  114. Sam has joined
  115. adiaholic has left
  116. adiaholic has joined
  117. Half-Shot has left
  118. homebeach has left
  119. Matthew has left
  120. uhoreg has left
  121. Half-Shot has joined
  122. Matthew has joined
  123. homebeach has joined
  124. uhoreg has joined
  125. Sam has left
  126. atomicwatch has joined
  127. sonny has left
  128. Menel has joined
  129. karoshi has joined
  130. Sam has joined
  131. Menel has left
  132. Menel has joined
  133. Sam has left
  134. restive_monk has left
  135. kinetik has joined
  136. restive_monk has joined
  137. mimi89999 has left
  138. adiaholic has left
  139. mimi89999 has joined
  140. Maranda[x] has left
  141. adiaholic has joined
  142. Maranda[x] has joined
  143. emus has joined
  144. yushyin has left
  145. Sam has joined
  146. antranigv has joined
  147. վարյա has left
  148. վարյա has joined
  149. Sam has left
  150. kinetik has left
  151. Seve has joined
  152. jgart has left
  153. Alex has left
  154. antranigv has left
  155. pasdesushi has left
  156. pasdesushi has joined
  157. wurstsalat has left
  158. jgart has joined
  159. kinetik has joined
  160. wurstsalat has joined
  161. Half-Shot has left
  162. homebeach has left
  163. Matthew has left
  164. uhoreg has left
  165. Half-Shot has joined
  166. Matthew has joined
  167. homebeach has joined
  168. uhoreg has joined
  169. yushyin has joined
  170. jgart has left
  171. goffi has joined
  172. restive_monk has left
  173. qwestion has left
  174. Seve has left
  175. ti_gj06 has joined
  176. Alif Radhitya has joined
  177. Seve has joined
  178. Alif Radhitya has left
  179. L29Ah has left
  180. neshtaxmpp has left
  181. neshtaxmpp has joined
  182. Daniel has left
  183. konstantinos has joined
  184. tykayn has joined
  185. Tobias has left
  186. Tobias has joined
  187. debacle has joined
  188. melvo has left
  189. melvo has joined
  190. goffi has left
  191. restive_monk has joined
  192. yushyin has left
  193. Guus has left
  194. Guus has joined
  195. yushyin has joined
  196. sonny has joined
  197. restive_monk has left
  198. Tobias has left
  199. Tobias has joined
  200. Alex has joined
  201. Tobias has left
  202. Tobias has joined
  203. Seve has left
  204. Daniel has joined
  205. daags has left
  206. COM8 has joined
  207. restive_monk has joined
  208. COM8 has left
  209. COM8 has joined
  210. COM8 has left
  211. COM8 has joined
  212. Paganini has left
  213. COM8 has left
  214. konstantinos has left
  215. msavoritias has joined
  216. konstantinos has joined
  217. Sam has joined
  218. antranigv has joined
  219. վարյա has left
  220. վարյա has joined
  221. Sam has left
  222. lskdjf has joined
  223. konstantinos has left
  224. Tobias has left
  225. Tobias has joined
  226. lovetox has left
  227. konstantinos has joined
  228. antranigv has left
  229. restive_monk has left
  230. վարյա has left
  231. վարյա has joined
  232. restive_monk has joined
  233. lovetox has joined
  234. Seve has joined
  235. վարյա has left
  236. վարյա has joined
  237. karoshi has left
  238. karoshi has joined
  239. վարյա has left
  240. վարյա has joined
  241. yushyin has left
  242. lovetox has left
  243. Daniel has left
  244. yushyin has joined
  245. goffi has joined
  246. emus has left
  247. Daniel has joined
  248. neshtaxmpp has left
  249. lovetox has joined
  250. adiaholic has left
  251. վարյա has left
  252. restive_monk has left
  253. ti_gj06 has left
  254. restive_monk has joined
  255. floretta has joined
  256. Tobias has left
  257. Tobias has joined
  258. bean has joined
  259. konstantinos has left
  260. konstantinos has joined
  261. ti_gj06 has joined
  262. Tobias has left
  263. Tobias has joined
  264. emus has joined
  265. marc has left
  266. TheCoffeMaker has left
  267. Tobias has left
  268. Tobias has joined
  269. Andrzej has joined
  270. lovetox has left
  271. վարյա has joined
  272. Tobias has left
  273. Tobias has joined
  274. TheCoffeMaker has joined
  275. վարյա has left
  276. վարյա has joined
  277. TheCoffeMaker has left
  278. rubi has left
  279. TheCoffeMaker has joined
  280. APach has joined
  281. adiaholic has joined
  282. lovetox has joined
  283. վարյա has left
  284. վարյա has joined
  285. rubi has joined
  286. TheCoffeMaker has left
  287. Andrzej has left
  288. Andrzej has joined
  289. APach has left
  290. APach has joined
  291. ti_gj06 has left
  292. Titi has left
  293. Half-Shot has left
  294. homebeach has left
  295. Matthew has left
  296. uhoreg has left
  297. Half-Shot has joined
  298. Matthew has joined
  299. homebeach has joined
  300. uhoreg has joined
  301. Titi has joined
  302. alacer has left
  303. mjk has joined
  304. alacer has joined
  305. mjk has left
  306. mjk has joined
  307. Guus has left
  308. Guus has joined
  309. antranigv has joined
  310. վարյա has left
  311. վարյա has joined
  312. TheCoffeMaker has joined
  313. Half-Shot has left
  314. homebeach has left
  315. Matthew has left
  316. uhoreg has left
  317. Half-Shot has joined
  318. Matthew has joined
  319. homebeach has joined
  320. uhoreg has joined
  321. konstantinos has left
  322. konstantinos has joined
  323. Seve has left
  324. lovetox has left
  325. Andrzej has left
  326. wladmis has left
  327. TheCoffeMaker has left
  328. ti_gj06 has joined
  329. antranigv has left
  330. marc has joined
  331. sebastian has left
  332. sebastian has joined
  333. Steve Kille has left
  334. Steve Kille has joined
  335. Seve has joined
  336. debacle has left
  337. mimi89999 has left
  338. sebastian has left
  339. sebastian has joined
  340. stp has joined
  341. TheCoffeMaker has joined
  342. alacer has left
  343. L29Ah has joined
  344. TheCoffeMaker has left
  345. alacer has joined
  346. kurisu has joined
  347. kurisu What was the first xmpp client called?
  348. kurisu Like, first ever
  349. Kev I don't know. Jabberd the server was the first software, I believe. Gabber, maybe?
  350. Zash What's that, archaeology time? /me digs in https://web.archive.org/web/19991013013136/http://jabber.org:80/
  351. mimi89999 has joined
  352. phoebos has joined
  353. Zash Looks like between 1999 and 2002 it went from zero to over 9000
  354. Kev That, sadly, doesn't help does it? By the time (2020) that jabber.org was listing clients there, there were tonnes.
  355. phoebos has left
  356. adiaholic has left
  357. Kev That, sadly, doesn't help does it? By the time (2002) that jabber.org was listing clients there, there were tonnes.
  358. Zash Indeed 😕
  359. TheCoffeMaker has joined
  360. stp has left
  361. BASSGOD has left
  362. Kev As of October 2000 Cartoon Messenger 0.22 CloudChat 0.4.6 Gabber 0.7.0 Hotjabber 0.72alfa IRC Transport 0.9.1 JabberIM 0.9.6.1 Jabbernaut 0.5b3 Jabberzilla Alpha 1 Jarl 0.4002 KIM 0.1.399 NewtJab 1.2 Pybber 0.1.0 - The Fly WinJab 0.9.2.25
  363. Daniel has left
  364. L29Ah has left
  365. L29Ah has joined
  366. Zash Cambrian explosion?
  367. Daniel has joined
  368. emus Pybber 😂 wurstsalat
  369. wurstsalat hey, there's even a website from the past: http://pybber.sourceforge.net/
  370. TheCoffeMaker has left
  371. emus http://pybber.sourceforge.net/pybshot.jpg
  372. emus wow
  373. gooya has joined
  374. emus look at the discussion^^
  375. Zash a tale as old as time
  376. konstantinos has left
  377. emus ^^
  378. neshtaxmpp has joined
  379. konstantinos has joined
  380. Daniel has left
  381. Daniel has joined
  382. papatutuwawa has joined
  383. kurisu Well now I'm getting nostalgic of a time I didn't experience :) Those screenshots of gnome 1 look so comfy. Ah. I still miss the times of gnome 2 before gnome went to complete corporate shit in 2010 with the release of gnome 3. But gnome 1 looks even better than gnome 2
  384. BASSGOD has joined
  385. Kev I think Gabber is a fair bet at this point.
  386. Kev Can't say for certain it was the first, but it's definitely up there.
  387. ti_gj06 has left
  388. mjk Sorry to interrupt the nostalgia time... Is there yet a chatroom for providers.xmpp.net discussion? Couldn't find one on the site. In fact, I couldn't find 'Contact' page at all :))
  389. ti_gj06 has joined
  390. emus mjk: not yet
  391. emus contact page is WIP
  392. emus you can create issues if you have something to report
  393. stp has joined
  394. mjk > mjk: not yet > contact page is WIP Good! > you can create issues if you have something to report I just did :)
  395. marc0s has left
  396. marc0s has joined
  397. emus Cool!
  398. mjk By habit, I was first looking to ask if the issue is known, so looked for a chat
  399. mjk Quick glance over the open and closed issues suggested it's not a duplicate :)
  400. restive_monk has left
  401. antranigv has joined
  402. raucao has left
  403. djorz has joined
  404. emus mjk: thats perfectly fine. we are not yet being flooded, so we appreciate feedback. I mean, even if we would be flooded.
  405. mjk :)
  406. lovetox has joined
  407. emus feel free to got to the github for the website mostly. and gitlab for the actual list
  408. raucao has joined
  409. konstantinos has left
  410. antranigv has left
  411. konstantinos has joined
  412. pasdesushi has left
  413. tykayn has left
  414. Titi has left
  415. adiaholic has joined
  416. djorz has left
  417. wladmis has joined
  418. antranigv has joined
  419. raucao feedback: being a paid (and thus more sustainable) service should not just not be a negative marker, but it should actually be the other way around. saying "do not use" a sustainable service that is accountable to its users makes no sense to me.
  420. raucao also, that unknown upload size limit drags down services for not that good of a reason, too
  421. BASSGOD has left
  422. raucao sry for not opening issues. just reporting from mobile 😇
  423. Sam has joined
  424. adiaholic has left
  425. lovetox has left
  426. debacle has joined
  427. adiaholic has joined
  428. mh has left
  429. վարյա has left
  430. վարյա has joined
  431. Sam has left
  432. stp has left
  433. Sam has joined
  434. mh has joined
  435. antranigv has left
  436. xnamed has joined
  437. Yagiza has left
  438. Sam has left
  439. kurisu In bare xmpp, without extensions like MAM or anything, what happens if a message is sent to me when I'm offline? Does the server store it? When I come back online, will I be sent the message, and will it be <forward>'ed, will the time at which it was sent be preserved?
  440. mathieui kurisu: generally handled through XEP-0160
  441. mathieui So a delayed tag will be applied
  442. mathieui (Though "bare XMPP" is always a stretch)
  443. Link Mauve And the message will usually be stored for all eternity if you don’t connect again.
  444. Link Mauve Vs. MAM where it’ll stay for one week or two before being deleted.
  445. BASSGOD has joined
  446. Link Mauve (Again, in the default configuration of some servers.)
  447. Titi has joined
  448. Zash kurisu, so, probably stored on the server and then delivered the next time you come online (and *only* to that client) then deleted from the server
  449. adiaholic has left
  450. restive_monk has joined
  451. Titi has left
  452. lovetox has joined
  453. adiaholic has joined
  454. Titi has joined
  455. mjk raucao: in case it's about c.im, only being paid would place it in the cat. B (good server, but requires user interaction to register). What really dragged it down there is the other stuff (limits and location not being advertised on the website)
  456. raucao i don't know what c.im is
  457. mjk conversations.im, sorry
  458. lovetox has left
  459. lovetox has joined
  460. raucao if you advertise upload limits you make it easier for malicious users to flood your upload server. i don't know why that would be a *significant* drawback to any normal user
  461. raucao maybe a small one, but not a "do not use" one
  462. raucao and again, doesn't matter how much "not free" drags you down, it should actually lift you up
  463. raucao imo
  464. raucao location being advertised is kind of silly, since anyone can claim any location, but you can easily just resolve their IPs and see for yourself
  465. raucao so yeah, not a single one of the negative points would make it a "do not use" for me personally. but just my feedback, do what you will with it
  466. Tobias has left
  467. Tobias has joined
  468. Sam has joined
  469. raucao btw, the info is outdated, too https://twitter.com/marcusdeanadams/status/1508549364876251140
  470. mathieui raucao: your are not necessarily the target for the declarative location, but we should not expect end users to manually resolve IPs
  471. raucao i meant that a provider index could do so
  472. raucao to give accurate information
  473. mjk Sure one can do geoip and also connect to the server and ask for http upload limits, but those can chamge at any moment, and the point is for the information to be stable (and one way to ensure that is commiting to it by placing it on the website)
  474. mjk Also, the visible IP address might be just your reverse proxy (cloudflare, anyone?)
  475. raucao that would also be a plus in a lot of cases
  476. TheCoffeMaker has joined
  477. raucao i'd rather have someone i trust host the data physically under their control than use a service on some public cloud provider
  478. raucao even if it don't trust them
  479. raucao it's just generally not a useful negative marker imo
  480. Sam has left
  481. raucao like, would you *want* e.g. riseup to use an american or european cloud provider with full access to their VMs?
  482. adiaholic has left
  483. Sam has joined
  484. raucao maybe this could be solved by categories for lists. for example privacy vs free accounts vs cooperatively run, etc.. just thinking out loud here
  485. adiaholic has joined
  486. ti_gj06 has left
  487. TheCoffeMaker has left
  488. Zash What's that? Everyone has their own priorities and criteria?
  489. Seve has left
  490. libredev has joined
  491. Seve has joined
  492. Fishbowler has left
  493. Fishbowler has joined
  494. Tobias has left
  495. Tobias has joined
  496. lovetox has left
  497. Tobias has left
  498. Tobias has joined
  499. adiaholic has left
  500. adiaholic has joined
  501. Tobias has left
  502. Tobias has joined
  503. Daniel any currated list will be outdated in notime. this one is already outdated at launch. lol
  504. Tobias has left
  505. Holger Yes. I think if we need such a list it would make most sense to think about how the relevant data could be auto-queried.
  506. Wojtek has joined
  507. MattJ Heh, I was just writing that in another chat...
  508. MattJ I agree (and already shared with the project maintainers a while ago) that a manually-maintained list is a terrible idea
  509. lovetox has joined
  510. MattJ It has been tried countless times before, and I see nothing particularly different about this new attempt that would make its fate any different
  511. Zash Oh hush, let them learn it for themselves
  512. libredev has left
  513. MattJ I can't, it's painful to see it happen *again* :D
  514. Zash Those who do not learn from the countless XEP comparison tables are doomed to make their own instantly outdated comparison table
  515. Zash scans XEP list for the one...
  516. MattJ I think with some automation, it could become somewhat manageable... and I'm not aware that anyone has really tried that approach as often
  517. MattJ I think there have been a couple of automated lists in the past, but they were one-person projects
  518. Tobias has joined
  519. Link Mauve I guess it seems easier to scrape the clients’ pages once than to build automation.
  520. Half-Shot has left
  521. homebeach has left
  522. Matthew has left
  523. uhoreg has left
  524. Half-Shot has joined
  525. Matthew has joined
  526. homebeach has joined
  527. uhoreg has joined
  528. Paganini has joined
  529. adiaholic has left
  530. TheCoffeMaker has joined
  531. Zash https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0309.html
  532. Tobias has left
  533. Andrzej has joined
  534. Zash Isn't https://compliance.conversations.im/ an automated thing?
  535. Half-Shot has left
  536. homebeach has left
  537. Matthew has left
  538. uhoreg has left
  539. Half-Shot has joined
  540. Matthew has joined
  541. homebeach has joined
  542. uhoreg has joined
  543. Zash Except for the part where it's not following the current XSF compliance suite automatically
  544. MattJ I was just suggesting in conversations@ as this conversation started, a JSON API that xmpp-providers could pull from
  545. moparisthebest Damnit I was just typing a sarcastic comment that xep-309 didn't have enough json
  546. konstantinos has left
  547. Tobias has joined
  548. konstantinos has joined
  549. adiaholic has joined
  550. MattJ Maybe we just need to implement XEP-0309 in Prosody and ejabberd for publishing the information directly, without compliance.conversations.im as the middle-party :)
  551. Guus On pubsub events, is the message type defined / of interest?
  552. Guus in XEP-0060, I'm finding only a reference that using 'headline' would likely prevent them from being stored in offline storage.
  553. Zash Guus, ^F "pubsub#notification_type"
  554. TheCoffeMaker has left
  555. Holger MattJ, +1
  556. lovetox has left
  557. Zash MattJ, and then xmpp:providers.xmpp.net to collect them
  558. emus Daniel, it is not outdate if we dont have a reference. We reached out to most providers >several< times
  559. adiaholic has left
  560. Guus Zash, thank you.
  561. Holger emus, I think this is more about keeping it up-to-date in the future anyway.
  562. Daniel emus: information on conversations.im seems pretty outdated
  563. Tobias has left
  564. Tobias has joined
  565. Daniel And/or just incomplete. For example the admins / the bus factor has always been displayed on our website
  566. emus Which exactly? that it is for free now? Well, as said we did not find the statement on the website. Can you link regarding the bus factor? What is outdate there
  567. Daniel Which isn't like a big deal in itself. It just shows that maintaining such a list is hard
  568. emus Which exactly? that it is for free now? Well, as said we did not find the statement on the website. Can you link regarding the bus factor? What is outdated there
  569. antranigv has joined
  570. moparisthebest How does bus factor relate to reliability? What's the bus factor at atlassian?
  571. BASSGOD has left
  572. emus Well, regarding the discussion: Yes, we want to automate more and also prefer this too. However, our focus in general is now to check how such criteria work, what people think and what could work out to automate. We had many discussions what makes sense in what manner. now simply rolling out some quick thoughts and then every two months asking to update the server info / implementations of such an automation will not be accepted by most operators, too. (I assume)
  573. Tobias has left
  574. Tobias has joined
  575. lovetox has joined
  576. Tobias has left
  577. Tobias has joined
  578. raucao if i only have to maintain a single endpoint, that's 10x preferable to notifying whatever lists i don't even know about
  579. emus And also here: The list is setup from a user centric view and how user might approach a service. is it complete, is are the criteria final yet or near perfect? I assume not, and likely never will be. But we have a new attempt with the .json file and the criteria and we would like to evolve this with as much as support we can get for this. And on the `freeofcost` key - we dont blame professional services. But we saw already devs going only for free of cost servers. If we dont separate they will just use the list and filter themselves. What I assume anyway many will do (we don't recommend, as we took a look at all these servers and there are some with sever issues). I personally would be happy if devs highly professional xmpp operators in their registrations. So this list also enables this in the end if one goes this way. I hope it got a bit more clear
  580. BASSGOD has joined
  581. Daniel emus: does not mentioning any cost mean it's free? If so then conversations.im is free. If not a lot of the servers on your list don't mention it either
  582. emus And yes - things change all the time - but we try to get this process going and close a big gap in xmpp. This must not be the end of the story. If we integrate a common query for servers thats really great I assume. But maybe lets test this a bit first
  583. raucao you're getting the feedback right now. no need to be defensive about the current state
  584. raucao everyone's just trying to help
  585. emus Which specific ones? I remember looking for such a statement incl. asking them to provide such a statement.
  586. Tobias has left
  587. Tobias has joined
  588. emus And as said. We don't want to make decisions for maintainers, we just provide information from their public websites. Otherwise this ends in arbitrariness and intransparency on how we act in the end, right?
  589. emus raucao, yes that's alright. But I tried to rather explain our intentions and procedure
  590. BASSGOD has left
  591. emus > if i only have to maintain a single endpoint, that's 10x preferable to notifying whatever lists i don't even know about I think I dont fully understand
  592. lovetox has left
  593. marc0s has left
  594. marc0s has joined
  595. wurstsalat emus, having the server announce all the infos instead of the operator notifying lists
  596. Zash server-DOAP?
  597. emus wuhu, yes more DOAP! 🙂
  598. emus but that is maybe a next step. Now we have a basis to discuss what should be in such a DOAP etc. or what ever we are going to do?
  599. marc0s has left
  600. marc0s has joined
  601. wurstsalat we're looking forward to automate as much as possible in order to reduce maintenance gaps. doing a one-catches-all server query would be fantastic
  602. lovetox has joined
  603. restive_monk has left
  604. papatutuwawa has left
  605. Half-Shot has left
  606. homebeach has left
  607. Matthew has left
  608. uhoreg has left
  609. Half-Shot has joined
  610. Matthew has joined
  611. homebeach has joined
  612. uhoreg has joined
  613. raucao it would also make the list opt-in for providers, which is another benefit
  614. wurstsalat i.e. using https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0157.html for contact addresses, and https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0309.html for server stuff + vcard, and further disco info processing for file size limits and so on
  615. papatutuwawa has joined
  616. emus And such an approach now actually offers to improve maintainability through automation incl. update process
  617. restive_monk has joined
  618. adiaholic has joined
  619. BASSGOD has joined
  620. wurstsalat on the other hand I value transparency, and I think server operators _really should_ place infos on their website for new users to make an informed decision
  621. emus yes +1
  622. emus I had a quite bad experience because when I started with XMPP I though XMPP = XMPP (never heard of xeps etc)
  623. BASSGOD has left
  624. emus And its not that I would not have been capable to understand details to some level (as some non tech-savvy users)
  625. lovetox has left
  626. wurstsalat oh, there is a prosody module for '309: https://modules.prosody.im/mod_service_directories.html :)
  627. adiaholic has left
  628. emus and there are other things which automation cannot ensure: Are admins able to reach? Do all the evaluation spectra fits the real-life spectra? we had many cases where we had to rethink how we measure specific criteria. So automation is not the gold-standard on all cases. Operators should be invited to review this on a regular basis (monthly, quarterly, annually?)
  629. emus and there are other things which automation cannot ensure: Are admins able to reach? Do all the evaluation spectra fits the real-life spectra? we had many cases where we had to rethink how we measure specific criteria. So automation is not the gold-standard in all cases. Operators should be invited to review this on a regular basis (monthly, quarterly, annually?)
  630. Holger emus: > Operators should be invited to review this on a regular basis (monthly, quarterly, annually?) My assumption would be that this part is just completely unrealistic in practice, I'm afraid.
  631. Half-Shot has left
  632. Matthew has left
  633. homebeach has left
  634. uhoreg has left
  635. Half-Shot has joined
  636. Matthew has joined
  637. homebeach has joined
  638. uhoreg has joined
  639. neshtaxmpp has left
  640. neshtaxmpp has joined
  641. Tobias has left
  642. Tobias has joined
  643. antranigv has left
  644. adiaholic has joined
  645. emus In what regard unrelalistic?
  646. antranigv has joined
  647. TheCoffeMaker has joined
  648. MattJ The second link in providers.json is a 404, ironically https://404.city/+/faq.html
  649. emus haha
  650. emus thanks
  651. konstantinos has left
  652. L29Ah has left
  653. L29Ah has joined
  654. TheCoffeMaker has left
  655. konstantinos has joined
  656. BASSGOD has joined
  657. antranigv has left
  658. lovetox has joined
  659. BASSGOD has left
  660. վարյա has left
  661. antranigv has joined
  662. Tobias has left
  663. melvo > The second link in providers.json is a 404, ironically https://404.city/+/faq.html Thanks, I am aware of that: https://invent.kde.org/melvo/xmpp-providers/-/jobs/290978 I just wanted to wait a bit until they set it up again.
  664. MattJ Nice automation ;)
  665. adiaholic has left
  666. konstantinos has left
  667. stp has joined
  668. melvo Of course, it is not perfect and should be run periodically. The same applies to many other ideas mentioned here. But I would like to remind you that we just wanted to share our project even if there is a lot potential for improvement :)
  669. emus Yes!
  670. ti_gj06 has joined
  671. debacle has left
  672. TheCoffeMaker has joined
  673. moparisthebest has left
  674. konstantinos has joined
  675. Tobias has joined
  676. floretta has left
  677. pasdesushi has joined
  678. Tobias has left
  679. BASSGOD has joined
  680. moparisthebest has joined
  681. floretta has joined
  682. BASSGOD has left
  683. TheCoffeMaker has left
  684. Tobias has joined
  685. marc0s has left
  686. konstantinos has left
  687. konstantinos has joined
  688. melvo I think that a good solution should automate as much as possible but in such a way that providers could use the data to embed them in their websites. So, we could fetch the data from their servers to include them in our lists and they could also fetch the same data to display details such as limits on their websites for transparency to the users. I know that most of you could easily fetch the data by yourself and do not need any of it, neither on https://providers.xmpp.net nor on any of the providers' websites. But keep in mind that our goal is to make XMPP usable for everyone :)
  689. Andrzej has left
  690. neshtaxmpp has left
  691. melvo In the end, there would be only one source of truth (the server's configuration file) and many parts of XMPP Providers would be automated.
  692. Tobias has left
  693. Tobias has joined
  694. Andrzej has joined
  695. APach has left
  696. APach has joined
  697. lovetox has left
  698. marc0s has joined
  699. mjk > I think that a good solution should automate as much as possible but in such a way that providers could use the data to embed them in their websites. So, we could fetch the data from their servers to include them in our lists and they could also fetch the same data to display details such as limits on their websites for transparency to the users. All of my yeses! Alternatively, you could provide an html snippet for embedding this info (kinda like the current badge, but much extended)
  700. melvo By the way, there is also an issue for automation aspects: https://invent.kde.org/melvo/xmpp-providers/-/issues/32 If someone could write scripts, implement things for server software or even provide a way to trigger the (Conversations) Compliance Tester or the IM Observatory, that would be really nice!
  701. melvo >All of my yeses! Alternatively, you could provide an html snippet for embedding this info (kinda like the current badge, but much extended) Nice idea. Yes :)
  702. lovetox has joined
  703. BASSGOD has joined
  704. konstantinos has left
  705. konstantinos has joined
  706. Andrzej has left
  707. chipmnk has joined
  708. BASSGOD has left
  709. վարյա has joined
  710. melvo Are there more XEPs than https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0157.html and https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0309.html for automation? And are they supported / enabled by default by ejabberd, Prosody etc.?
  711. Zash Sounds like a question for DOAP! 🙂
  712. Zash Supported in Prosody. Not enabled by default. Majority of servers are expected to be smol private servers where it's less relevant.
  713. sbach has left
  714. sbach has joined
  715. վարյա has left
  716. lovetox has left
  717. BASSGOD has joined
  718. BASSGOD has left
  719. Zash XEP-0157 is* supported in Prosody. Not enabled by default. Majority of servers are expected to be smol private servers where it's less relevant.
  720. Zash I thought the author of XEP-0309 was working on an implementation but I don't see any
  721. MattJ The author being stpeter?
  722. Zash Yes.
  723. wurstsalat Zash: https://modules.prosody.im/mod_service_directories.html ?
  724. Zash Ah, you found it!
  725. restive_monk has left
  726. BASSGOD has joined
  727. TheCoffeMaker has joined
  728. BASSGOD has left
  729. վարյա has joined
  730. ti_gj06 has left
  731. konstantinos has left
  732. konstantinos has joined
  733. BASSGOD has joined
  734. TheCoffeMaker has left
  735. L29Ah has left
  736. neshtaxmpp has joined
  737. jgart has joined
  738. վարյա has left
  739. libredev has joined
  740. libredev has left
  741. TheCoffeMaker has joined
  742. konstantinos has left
  743. melvo has left
  744. konstantinos has joined
  745. rafasaurus has left
  746. harry837374884 has joined
  747. TheCoffeMaker has left
  748. Andrzej has joined
  749. tykayn has joined
  750. sbach has left
  751. sbach has joined
  752. BASSGOD has left
  753. ti_gj06 has joined
  754. adiaholic has joined
  755. BASSGOD has joined
  756. TheCoffeMaker has joined
  757. lovetox has joined
  758. restive_monk has joined
  759. Tobias has left
  760. Tobias has joined
  761. TheCoffeMaker has left
  762. adiaholic has left
  763. neshtaxmpp has left
  764. neshtaxmpp has joined
  765. gooya has left
  766. neshtaxmpp has left
  767. neshtaxmpp has joined
  768. gooya has joined
  769. rafasaurus has joined
  770. adiaholic has joined
  771. TheCoffeMaker has joined
  772. adiaholic has left
  773. djorz has joined
  774. adiaholic has joined
  775. neshtaxmpp has left
  776. neshtaxmpp has joined
  777. phoebos has joined
  778. adiaholic has left
  779. adiaholic has joined
  780. restive_monk has left
  781. Tobias has left
  782. Tobias has joined
  783. adiaholic has left
  784. restive_monk has joined
  785. harry837374884 has left
  786. harry837374884 has joined
  787. debacle has joined
  788. phoebos has left
  789. djorz has left
  790. restive_monk has left
  791. restive_monk has joined
  792. Maranda[x] has left
  793. Maranda[x] has joined
  794. L29Ah has joined
  795. Tobias has left
  796. pjn has left
  797. pjn has joined
  798. restive_monk has left
  799. Steve Kille has left
  800. BASSGOD has left
  801. Steve Kille has joined
  802. Andrzej has left
  803. restive_monk has joined
  804. gooya has left
  805. gooya has joined
  806. adiaholic has joined
  807. Ingolf has left
  808. BASSGOD has joined
  809. gooya has left
  810. Andrzej has joined
  811. gooya has joined
  812. BASSGOD has left
  813. adiaholic has left
  814. gooya has left
  815. gooya has joined
  816. BASSGOD has joined
  817. adiaholic has joined
  818. restive_monk has left
  819. marc0s has left
  820. harry837374884 has left
  821. harry837374884 has joined
  822. marc0s has joined
  823. Seve has left
  824. BASSGOD has left
  825. Seve has joined
  826. BASSGOD has joined
  827. BASSGOD has left
  828. djorz has joined
  829. APach has left
  830. raghavgururajan has left
  831. arcxi has left
  832. konstantinos has left
  833. konstantinos has joined
  834. ti_gj06 has left
  835. Maranda[x] has left
  836. Maranda[x] has joined
  837. ti_gj06 has joined
  838. BASSGOD has joined
  839. Tobias has joined
  840. BASSGOD has left
  841. arcxi has joined
  842. Seve has left
  843. restive_monk has joined
  844. Half-Shot has left
  845. homebeach has left
  846. Matthew has left
  847. uhoreg has left
  848. Half-Shot has joined
  849. Matthew has joined
  850. homebeach has joined
  851. uhoreg has joined
  852. adiaholic has left
  853. papatutuwawa has left
  854. pasdesushi has left
  855. adiaholic has joined
  856. BASSGOD has joined
  857. BASSGOD has left
  858. adiaholic has left
  859. rafasaurus has left
  860. Link Mauve emus, melvo, is your project translatable btw?
  861. djorz has left
  862. Ingolf has joined
  863. adiaholic has joined
  864. emus > Link Mauve escribió: > emus, melvo, is your project translatable btw? We plan to support this in the future
  865. Link Mauve Ok, thanks. :)
  866. BASSGOD has joined
  867. BASSGOD has left
  868. adiaholic has left
  869. Sam has left
  870. restive_monk has left
  871. BASSGOD has joined
  872. papatutuwawa has joined
  873. BASSGOD has left
  874. Sam has joined
  875. APach has joined
  876. Tobias has left
  877. Tobias has joined
  878. adiaholic has joined
  879. Sam has left
  880. Sam has joined
  881. melvo has joined
  882. djorz has joined
  883. BASSGOD has joined
  884. adiaholic has left
  885. melvo Zash: Thanks. Holger, what is with ejabberd?
  886. Sam has left
  887. Sam has joined
  888. Zash Beware, translation/i18n is one of those things that seem a million times harder to add later on, than having it from the start
  889. BASSGOD has left
  890. Tobias has left
  891. Tobias has joined
  892. Tobias has left
  893. Tobias has joined
  894. BASSGOD has joined
  895. adiaholic has joined
  896. Ingolf has left
  897. neshtaxmpp has left
  898. neshtaxmpp has joined
  899. neshtaxmpp has left
  900. neshtaxmpp has joined
  901. neshtaxmpp has left
  902. neshtaxmpp has joined
  903. adiaholic has left
  904. konstantinos has left
  905. pasdesushi has joined
  906. Thilo Molitor has left
  907. neshtaxmpp has left
  908. Thilo Molitor has joined
  909. chipmnk has left
  910. chipmnk has joined
  911. neshtaxmpp has joined
  912. andrey.g has joined
  913. neshtaxmpp has left
  914. neshtaxmpp has joined
  915. xnamed has left
  916. Maranda[x] has left
  917. Maranda[x] has joined
  918. BASSGOD has left
  919. neshtaxmpp has left
  920. BASSGOD has joined
  921. xnamed has joined
  922. jonas’ +1
  923. jonas’ but i'll gladly offer weblate hosting
  924. neshtaxmpp has joined
  925. kinetik has left
  926. Seve has joined
  927. adiaholic has joined
  928. marc has left
  929. marc has joined
  930. konstantinos has joined
  931. adiaholic has left
  932. harry837374884 has left
  933. rafasaurus has joined
  934. Andrzej has left
  935. andrey.g has left
  936. harry837374884 has joined
  937. kinetik has joined
  938. papatutuwawa has left
  939. papatutuwawa has joined
  940. adiaholic has joined
  941. adiaholic has left
  942. marc0s has left
  943. marc0s has joined
  944. antranigv has left
  945. msavoritias has left
  946. ti_gj06 has left
  947. ti_gj06 has joined
  948. antranigv has joined
  949. antranigv has left
  950. Wojtek has left
  951. antranigv has joined
  952. neshtaxmpp has left
  953. Half-Shot has left
  954. Matthew has left
  955. homebeach has left
  956. uhoreg has left
  957. Half-Shot has joined
  958. Matthew has joined
  959. homebeach has joined
  960. uhoreg has joined
  961. neshtaxmpp has joined
  962. kinetik has left
  963. bean has left
  964. andrey.g has joined
  965. atomicwatch has left
  966. homebeach has left
  967. Half-Shot has left
  968. Matthew has left
  969. uhoreg has left
  970. Half-Shot has joined
  971. Matthew has joined
  972. homebeach has joined
  973. uhoreg has joined
  974. marc0s has left
  975. marc0s has joined
  976. antranigv has left
  977. adiaholic has joined
  978. atomicwatch has joined
  979. Seve has left
  980. antranigv has joined
  981. konstantinos has left
  982. adiaholic has left
  983. deuill has left
  984. marc has left
  985. antranigv has left
  986. harry837374884 has left
  987. kinetik has joined
  988. wgreenhouse has left
  989. mjk has left
  990. Menel has left
  991. Titi has left
  992. wgreenhouse has joined
  993. antranigv has joined
  994. govanify has left
  995. govanify has joined
  996. tykayn has left
  997. karoshi has left
  998. emus has left
  999. Tobias has left
  1000. debacle has left
  1001. lskdjf has left
  1002. homebeach has left
  1003. Half-Shot has left
  1004. Matthew has left
  1005. uhoreg has left
  1006. Half-Shot has joined
  1007. Matthew has joined
  1008. homebeach has joined
  1009. uhoreg has joined
  1010. ti_gj06 has left
  1011. Thilo Molitor has left
  1012. Thilo Molitor has joined
  1013. neshtaxmpp has left
  1014. neshtaxmpp has joined
  1015. homebeach has left
  1016. Half-Shot has left
  1017. Matthew has left
  1018. uhoreg has left
  1019. Half-Shot has joined
  1020. Matthew has joined
  1021. homebeach has joined
  1022. uhoreg has joined
  1023. kinetik has left
  1024. lovetox has left
  1025. lovetox has joined
  1026. Mikaela has left
  1027. Mikaela has joined
  1028. floretta has left
  1029. floretta has joined
  1030. adiaholic has joined
  1031. adiaholic has left
  1032. lovetox has left
  1033. Ge0rG has left
  1034. junaid has left
  1035. junaid has joined
  1036. Ge0rG has joined
  1037. lovetox has joined
  1038. wladmis has left
  1039. wladmis has joined
  1040. andrey.g has left
  1041. wurstsalat has left
  1042. djorz has left
  1043. lovetox has left
  1044. atomicwatch has left
  1045. floretta has left
  1046. adiaholic has joined
  1047. antranigv has left
  1048. antranigv has joined
  1049. adiaholic has left
  1050. Vidak has left
  1051. papatutuwawa has left
  1052. phoebos has joined
  1053. phoebos has left