XSF Discussion - 2022-05-04

Is there an alternative room directory to https://search.jabber.network/ available?

I have a problem with "out of scope"

crypt: it's all open source, run your own!

That's the common thing to say to people... "Build your own"

crypt: I didn't say build your own I said run your own

And when the alternatives get popular the same people say those should be taken down.

Why would I care about your website

Free speech.. People can _say_ it should be taken down.. Put we can all ignore these people

moparisthebest: good evening my friend. How are you?

What is out of scope btw?

Menel: he doesn't like https://search.jabber.network/tos which is fine, your remedy is to run your own

Toxi: fine how about you

I am bad. Bad people always do fine.

I have a problem when search engines are political selective. I don't like cancel culture.

Great, run your own like you want

Baf approach.

Open source Software and open protocols are great aren't they?

Surely you wouldn't be for forcing people to run things against their will?

Not really XSF discussion, since that search engine isn't the XSF room engine

Typically discussion for this room xmpp:conversations-offtopic-reloaded@conference.trashserver.net?join

I agree free speech is great, by all means say whatever you want, but you can't force me to say anything you want that's stupid

That's all I have to say about it, as the saying goes "put up or shut up"

Menel is going to ban me if i reply. I am used to this kind of treatment. So conclusion you are right. Good night.

If I would run that service in Germany,( for free!) I wouldn't do anything different. If people feel different on that should be found.. They have to build that service elsewhere.

Lol how can I ban you? I _could_ ignore you..

Let's really move to that offtopic channel

Or we all get banned, rightly 😃

Not everything has to be family friendly (or politically correct). Not everything that's controversial or edgy should be reported. Looking for like-minded.

Hence the request... does anyone know an alternative?

I agree, that's why we have all this open source Software and protocols

Alternative, like alternative search engine recommendations.

Nope, only that it's FOSS so anyone can run their own, guess if there isn't any yet then people have been pretty happy with that one

We vote with our feet and code around here, we don't sit around whining wishing someone else would do something for us

> moparisthebest: > 2022-05-03 09:03 (CDT) > We vote with our feet and code around here, we don't sit around whining wishing someone else would do something for us Asking for a recommendation is whining... Nice. I see how you think. Good evening everyone.

Have a good one!

https://search.jabber.network is the only room directory listed on https://xmpp.org/getting-started/ -- just saying.

Again apparently everyone is happy with it since no one started another instance, which is trivial since it's FOSS

If you aren't happy with it, stop whining and do something about it

Why act so high and mighty? Actually, I don't want to know.

I don't, but when I want something I make it happen

Especially if it's as trivial as using some nice FOSS project

For context... Matrix has many public rooms on matrix.org and on other servers that would no doubt get reported and delisted on search.jabber.network. How many people have looked at your curated list and been left wanting because you've taken the course you have? If it's not illegal, it should be allowed.

In before... _Go use Matrix.org if you're unhappy with XMPP._ Also, attacking me is not addressing the valid issue I'm pointing out. I do it out of ❤️

crypt: but what valid issue though? Do you have any evidence of rooms getting delisted even though their topic is not illegal?

And by the way i agree with you that moparis attitude doesnt help and he is being elitist.

This whole topic is really not quite appropriate in here. xmpp:operators@muc.xmpp.org?join would be a bit less wrong. Also Matrix had its own issues and is also enforcing content policies, see https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25964226

Yes, this is pretty much off-topic and has already been discussed at length

> We vote with our feet and code around here, we don't sit around whining wishing someone else would do something for us Yay way to go :)

crypt The person who runs the service has the right to decide what to allow on that service or not. There's no rule that says someone should allow anything on their service just because it's not illegal. Code is speech, and the operator of that service is practicing free speech in the sense that they are making a statement about what they consider appropriate for such a service.

Weirdly enough I feel like we're making progress towards “neutrality is a lie” :-°

Mhh, not 100% sure the site will deployment this weekend after all…

https://upload.phryk.net:5281/upload/ocaI_xG0tBrnLcEYsmikPMZo/beyma-12g40-size.png

Because this happened.^^

Speakerp*rn, very nice :)

there's an RCF L12P110K waiting for me and my horn (but that's way off-topic)

(:

> pep.: > 2022-05-04 04:00 (CDT) > Weirdly enough I feel like we're making progress towards “neutrality is a lie” :-° If we had **message reactions** already, I'd give you a thumbs up. ✏

who claimed to be neutral ?

the entire discussion is stupid and offtopic for this channel, it was literally "this unrelated-to-XSF website doesn't work like I want" ok cool go someplace else

crypt, https://github.com/horazont/muchopper feel free to run your own, but don't ask for support in doing so.

but yes, this is neither an XSF service nor an XSF product, so it's mostly off-topic here.

Does XSF not operate xmpp.org?

crypt: it does operate ✏

it does, and it has plenty of links to 3rd party XMPP projects/sites that are unrelated to the XSF

> jonas’: > 2022-05-04 01:36 (CDT) > crypt, https://github.com/horazont/muchopper feel free to run your own, but don't ask for support in doing so. Awesome of you to make this available. I was originally asking for alternative room directories.

and you were told that we aren't aware of any, but that the source code was free

moparisthebest: I wasn't talking to you.

crypt, use /ignore if you like, I'll respond to whoever I please, I thought you liked free speech :)

moparisthebest: dare you! 😉

emus, keep up the good newletter work ;)

crypt, sorry, by "this" I meant search.jabber.network; s.j.n is not an XSF service or product, nor is it in any way officially endorsed by the XSF

just as a random datapoint from the matrix side: we're considering killing off room directories

as they just fill up with trash

and instead encouraging folks to curate spaces (i.e. hierarchies of rooms)

using the existing permission model to delegate access for curating the space hierarchies - a bit like usenet

remains to be seen how well that'll work though.

Yeah, I think that's the better way

(plus i'm surprised nobody has built a search engine like s.j.n for matrix yet - there are lots of spiders used for visualisation, but none of them are used for searching, weirdly) ✏

Yahoo! vs Google models again?

Interestingly (and I don't *think* anyone's doing it), we can do in-protocol curated rooms fairly easily through disco.

I think some non centralized way is better too. Right now there are a lot of dead or unmoderated rooms everytime you see for something. Not to fault of the author of course. It just shows how quickly it goes out of date

> moparisthebest escribió: > emus, keep up the good newletter work ;) On it - release planned for tomorrow! 📠☎🖱💽📽

> moparisthebest: > 2022-05-04 01:49 (CDT) > crypt, use /ignore if you like, I'll respond to whoever I please, I thought you liked free speech :) I just don't like assholes.

But continue to be yourself, by all means.

We don't need personal attacks here, thanks.

https://xmpp.org/community/channels/operators/ Would be also good for this channel maybe

> moparisthebest escribió: > emus, keep up the good newletter work ;) btw reviewer welcome! https://github.com/xsf/xmpp.org/milestone/3

> I just don't like assholes. I know we are all nervous because of the plandemic and the Ukrainian neo-nazis, but please calm down. Be nice to each other.

jonas’: would you be open to discussing the "out of scope" portion of the ToS? If yes, which room would work best for you? Perhaps a scheduled time on a weekend day, so everyone can join and freely share their ideas and comment on the room directory in general? Post it as an event on the homepage, if you like. It could reenergize the project and encourage people to create new rooms who were previously reluctant.

Who was reluctant to create a room and why?

Want a room? Create it

moparisthebest: aren't you a little old for being a troll? 😂