XSF Discussion - 2022-05-04

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01:33:35 crypt Is there an alternative room directory to https://search.jabber.network/ available?
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01:34:39 crypt I have a problem with "out of scope"
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01:36:10 moparisthebest crypt: it's all open source, run your own!
01:36:48 crypt That's the common thing to say to people... "Build your own"
01:37:59 moparisthebest crypt: I didn't say build your own I said run your own
01:38:05 crypt And when the alternatives get popular the same people say those should be taken down.
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01:38:42 moparisthebest Why would I care about your website
01:39:42 Menel Free speech.. People can _say_ it should be taken down.. Put we can all ignore these people
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01:40:08 Toxi moparisthebest: good evening my friend. How are you?
01:40:11 Menel What is out of scope btw?
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01:41:28 moparisthebest Menel: he doesn't like https://search.jabber.network/tos which is fine, your remedy is to run your own
01:41:51 moparisthebest Toxi: fine how about you
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01:42:32 Toxi I am bad. Bad people always do fine.
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01:43:49 Toxi I have a problem when search engines are political selective. I don't like cancel culture.
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01:44:23 moparisthebest Great, run your own like you want
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01:44:42 Toxi Baf approach.
01:44:52 moparisthebest Open source Software and open protocols are great aren't they?
01:45:15 moparisthebest Surely you wouldn't be for forcing people to run things against their will?
01:45:20 Menel Not really XSF discussion, since that search engine isn't the XSF room engine
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01:45:49 Menel Typically discussion for this room xmpp:conversations-offtopic-reloaded@conference.trashserver.net?join
01:46:05 moparisthebest I agree free speech is great, by all means say whatever you want, but you can't force me to say anything you want that's stupid
01:46:53 moparisthebest That's all I have to say about it, as the saying goes "put up or shut up"
01:48:07 Toxi Menel is going to ban me if i reply. I am used to this kind of treatment. So conclusion you are right. Good night.
01:48:20 Menel If I would run that service in Germany,( for free!) I wouldn't do anything different. If people feel different on that should be found.. They have to build that service elsewhere.
01:48:43 Menel Lol how can I ban you? I _could_ ignore you..
01:49:01 Menel Let's really move to that offtopic channel
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01:49:39 Menel Or we all get banned, rightly 😃
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01:59:04 crypt Not everything has to be family friendly (or politically correct). Not everything that's controversial or edgy should be reported. Looking for like-minded.
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02:00:05 crypt Hence the request... does anyone know an alternative?
02:00:22 moparisthebest I agree, that's why we have all this open source Software and protocols
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02:01:17 crypt Alternative, like alternative search engine recommendations.
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02:02:03 moparisthebest Nope, only that it's FOSS so anyone can run their own, guess if there isn't any yet then people have been pretty happy with that one
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02:03:29 moparisthebest We vote with our feet and code around here, we don't sit around whining wishing someone else would do something for us
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02:06:29 crypt > moparisthebest: > 2022-05-03 09:03 (CDT) > We vote with our feet and code around here, we don't sit around whining wishing someone else would do something for us Asking for a recommendation is whining... Nice. I see how you think. Good evening everyone.
02:06:46 moparisthebest Have a good one!
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02:13:19 crypt https://search.jabber.network is the only room directory listed on https://xmpp.org/getting-started/ -- just saying.
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02:14:16 moparisthebest Again apparently everyone is happy with it since no one started another instance, which is trivial since it's FOSS
02:14:36 moparisthebest If you aren't happy with it, stop whining and do something about it
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02:17:42 crypt Why act so high and mighty? Actually, I don't want to know.
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02:18:43 moparisthebest I don't, but when I want something I make it happen
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02:19:12 moparisthebest Especially if it's as trivial as using some nice FOSS project
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03:42:12 crypt For context... Matrix has many public rooms on matrix.org and on other servers that would no doubt get reported and delisted on search.jabber.network. How many people have looked at your curated list and been left wanting because you've taken the course you have? If it's not illegal, it should be allowed.
03:42:26 crypt In before... _Go use Matrix.org if you're unhappy with XMPP._ Also, attacking me is not addressing the valid issue I'm pointing out. I do it out of ❤️
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06:36:12 msavoritias crypt: but what valid issue though? Do you have any evidence of rooms getting delisted even though their topic is not illegal?
06:37:30 msavoritias And by the way i agree with you that moparis attitude doesnt help and he is being elitist.
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06:53:37 Ge0rG This whole topic is really not quite appropriate in here. xmpp:operators@muc.xmpp.org?join would be a bit less wrong. Also Matrix had its own issues and is also enforcing content policies, see https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25964226
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07:02:20 mathieui Yes, this is pretty much off-topic and has already been discussed at length
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08:23:55 pep. > We vote with our feet and code around here, we don't sit around whining wishing someone else would do something for us Yay way to go :)
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08:39:19 jcbrand crypt The person who runs the service has the right to decide what to allow on that service or not. There's no rule that says someone should allow anything on their service just because it's not illegal. Code is speech, and the operator of that service is practicing free speech in the sense that they are making a statement about what they consider appropriate for such a service.
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09:00:53 pep. Weirdly enough I feel like we're making progress towards “neutrality is a lie” :-°
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16:06:56 phryk Mhh, not 100% sure the site will deployment this weekend after all…
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16:07:09 phryk https://upload.phryk.net:5281/upload/ocaI_xG0tBrnLcEYsmikPMZo/beyma-12g40-size.png
16:07:10 phryk Because this happened.^^
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16:24:01 wurstsalat Speakerp*rn, very nice :)
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16:28:26 wurstsalat there's an RCF L12P110K waiting for me and my horn (but that's way off-topic)
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16:32:51 Ellenor Malik (:
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17:16:11 crypt ~~> pep.: > 2022-05-04 04:00 (CDT) > Weirdly enough I feel like we're making progress towards “neutrality is a lie” :-° If we had **message reactions** already. I'd give you a thumbs up.~~ ✎
17:16:23 crypt > pep.: > 2022-05-04 04:00 (CDT) > Weirdly enough I feel like we're making progress towards “neutrality is a lie” :-° If we had **message reactions** already, I'd give you a thumbs up. ✏
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17:47:22 moparisthebest who claimed to be neutral ?
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17:48:22 moparisthebest the entire discussion is stupid and offtopic for this channel, it was literally "this unrelated-to-XSF website doesn't work like I want" ok cool go someplace else
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18:36:18 jonas’ crypt, https://github.com/horazont/muchopper feel free to run your own, but don't ask for support in doing so.
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18:40:05 jonas’ but yes, this is neither an XSF service nor an XSF product, so it's mostly off-topic here.
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18:43:50 crypt Does XSF not operate xmpp.org?
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18:45:27 emus ~~crypt: it dies operate~~ ✎
18:45:32 emus crypt: it does operate ✏
18:45:58 moparisthebest it does, and it has plenty of links to 3rd party XMPP projects/sites that are unrelated to the XSF
18:46:07 crypt > jonas’: > 2022-05-04 01:36 (CDT) > crypt, https://github.com/horazont/muchopper feel free to run your own, but don't ask for support in doing so. Awesome of you to make this available. I was originally asking for alternative room directories.
18:46:39 moparisthebest and you were told that we aren't aware of any, but that the source code was free
18:47:19 crypt moparisthebest: I wasn't talking to you.
18:49:08 moparisthebest crypt, use /ignore if you like, I'll respond to whoever I please, I thought you liked free speech :)
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18:51:47 emus moparisthebest: dare you! 😉
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18:58:01 moparisthebest emus, keep up the good newletter work ;)
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19:02:33 jonas’ crypt, sorry, by "this" I meant search.jabber.network; s.j.n is not an XSF service or product, nor is it in any way officially endorsed by the XSF
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19:05:29 Matthew just as a random datapoint from the matrix side: we're considering killing off room directories
19:05:34 Matthew as they just fill up with trash
19:05:49 Matthew and instead encouraging folks to curate spaces (i.e. hierarchies of rooms)
19:06:22 Matthew using the existing permission model to delegate access for curating the space hierarchies - a bit like usenet
19:06:26 Matthew remains to be seen how well that'll work though.
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19:07:06 Matthew ~~(plus i'm surprised nobody has built a search engine like s.j.n for matrix yet - there are lots of spiders used for visualisation, but none of them are used for searching weirdly)~~ ✎
19:07:07 MattJ Yeah, I think that's the better way
19:07:27 Matthew (plus i'm surprised nobody has built a search engine like s.j.n for matrix yet - there are lots of spiders used for visualisation, but none of them are used for searching, weirdly) ✏
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19:12:45 Zash Yahoo! vs Google models again?
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19:13:56 Kev Interestingly (and I don't *think* anyone's doing it), we can do in-protocol curated rooms fairly easily through disco.
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19:17:25 msavoritias I think some non centralized way is better too. Right now there are a lot of dead or unmoderated rooms everytime you see for something. Not to fault of the author of course. It just shows how quickly it goes out of date
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19:35:24 emus > moparisthebest escribió: > emus, keep up the good newletter work ;) On it - release planned for tomorrow! 📠☎🖱💽📽
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19:47:23 crypt > moparisthebest: > 2022-05-04 01:49 (CDT) > crypt, use /ignore if you like, I'll respond to whoever I please, I thought you liked free speech :) I just don't like assholes.
19:48:39 crypt But continue to be yourself, by all means.
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19:50:49 Kev We don't need personal attacks here, thanks.
19:52:22 Menel https://xmpp.org/community/channels/operators/ Would be also good for this channel maybe
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20:56:20 emus > moparisthebest escribió: > emus, keep up the good newletter work ;) btw reviewer welcome! https://github.com/xsf/xmpp.org/milestone/3
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21:28:02 Paganini > I just don't like assholes. I know we are all nervous because of the plandemic and the Ukrainian neo-nazis, but please calm down. Be nice to each other.
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21:46:23 crypt jonas’: would you be open to discussing the "out of scope" portion of the ToS? If yes, which room would work best for you? Perhaps a scheduled time on a weekend day, so everyone can join and freely share their ideas and comment on the room directory in general? Post it as an event on the homepage, if you like. It could reenergize the project and encourage people to create new rooms who were previously reluctant.
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22:33:22 moparisthebest Who was reluctant to create a room and why?
22:33:35 moparisthebest Want a room? Create it
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23:53:15 crypt moparisthebest: aren't you a little old for being a troll? 😂
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