XSF Discussion - 2022-05-19


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  433. edhelas I have a big roster (800 items) and ~50 of them are old contact that are not reachable anymore. I see that my XMPP server return me errors from their presences.
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  435. edhelas Do we have a mechanism to handle those contacts and "cleanup" the rosters ?
  436. edhelas It also happens with transport services when they are disconnected
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  490. MattJ edhelas, no, but it's been on my to-do list for many years :)
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  493. MattJ It also causes a lot of unnecessary work for the server
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  495. MattJ Even in the old days, jabber.org logs used to be full of s2s connection attempts to servers that had gone down, or were never available in the first place (typos, confused users, etc.)
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  497. MattJ I don't know if automatic deletion is sensible, but removing subscriptions and possibly moving to an 'Archived' group or something, were ideas that I had
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  500. Sam If I have a component connection and I send a <message xmlns="jabber:client" to="someone@componentdomain>, does it get delivered to the component as is, or does the message get translated into the jabber:component:accept namespace? I'm having a hard time understanding the spec; it seems to redefine stanzas in the XML schema, but doesn't mention them in the document
  501. Zash I used to deploy a mod_unsubscriber as a component named after servers that were gone, which would respond with unsubscribe{,d}
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  506. Sam (if I send the message on a normal client connection, that is, but the component receives it, not if I send a message from a component connection)
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  511. Kev > Even in the old days, jabber.org logs used to be full of s2s connection attempts to servers that had gone down, or were never available in the first place (typos, confused users, etc.) jabber.org was even trying to catch some such things early and prevent trying to establish S2S to things that were clearly typos, to reduce the load.
  512. MattJ Zash, it gets translated
  513. MattJ Sam, it gets translated
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  518. MattJ For example, the schemas for jabber:server and jabber:component:accept both require 'to' and 'from' attributes, while jabber:client is more relaxed
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  520. MattJ Another one for your "XML mindset" tally, I think this namespace duplication is one thing most of us would love to change
  521. pep. I also have a mod_unsubscribe, but not all s2s errors are permanent errors so I guess one would need to be smart about it
  522. pep. (That is, a server may be down for hours only)
  523. Sam Thanks for the confirmation
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  526. Zash Something for XMPP 2.0 🙂
  527. Kev The 'from/to being optional' thing is one of very very few arguments in favour of the client/server split, and I don't feel it's an adequate argument.
  528. MattJ Indeed
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  531. Zash But schemas are not normative! Surely we can have some text saying as much while having the same namespace ?
  532. MattJ Exactly
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  534. Kev The schemas can be normative *and* we can have some text saying that the optional from/to must be present in some cases.
  535. MattJ For XMPP 2.0 we should just define a new namespace for all stream types
  536. MattJ and then the servers can translate to that from legacy streams
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  541. Kev I...am not opposed to that.
  542. Kev Although in practice it means that for a long time servers then need to support four namespaces instead of three!
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  568. flow with the stack markets falling down, a 33% increase in namespaces doesn't look that bad
  569. flow with the stcok markets falling down, a 33% increase in namespaces doesn't look that bad
  570. flow with the stock markets falling down, a 33% increase in namespaces doesn't look that bad
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  618. Ge0rG In case there will be a Board Meeting any time soon, I'd like to get going an analysis of the EU's new Digital Markets Act and Digital Services Act, and what they mean for XMPP service operators
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  638. moparisthebest flow: I'm buying XML futures right now!
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  640. Zash Time to short on JSON?
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  643. edhelas NFT of base64 XML avatars is the new cool thing
  644. jonas’ shush
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  825. Guus Le sigh. I feel that the world is going quite backwards with regards to the 'federate all things' sentiment. I now have people refusing to send me an email, as my mail address is not on their domain. And no, this isn't sensitive information, this is because "that's how we do it."
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  827. Guus Meanwhile, the high priority project has been delayed a week, because I can't get anyone to tell me where I can use the credentials that I've been provided. I literally have a username and password, but I can't get anyone to tell me what the URL is where these can be used.
  828. Guus </venting>
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  859. menel That's..... Sad
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  867. moparisthebest Guus: did you try contacting them on signal?
  868. moparisthebest I agree, ridiculous things everywhere
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  904. mjk I had the baffling experience of a user refusing to install Conversations for, apparently, security/privacy/robustness reasons, on a phone riddled with stock chinese firmware, google, *and* country-local shovelware
  905. mjk Jm2c
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  1034. edhelas Do we know which clients actually implement Hats ?
  1035. edhelas I have lots of difficulties to find documentations and references
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  1037. Zash Converse.js I think?
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  1040. edhelas I'm using the one on the official website, I don't see any menu/links to configure it
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  1042. edhelas Also currently trying to reverse-engineer the behavior using mod_muc sourcecode
  1043. edhelas https://github.com/processone/ejabberd/blob/a916d94000df1bf748421a5e8b7d7df0b69f362d/src/mod_muc_room.erl#L83
  1044. Zash I'd expect Hats to be defined from the server
  1045. edhelas Would be useful to have a proper XEP :D
  1046. Zash So, like, clients would just show something somehow
  1047. edhelas I think that the list is open to the admin, but i'm not sure
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  1053. Zash Part of the idea is to represent roles from external systems, which would also be responsible for assigning those roles.
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  1063. edhelas Well then I think that for now I'll stop here :p
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