XSF Discussion - 2022-05-23

I am currently working on a project to use federated media SFUs with XMPP and got started on an proto XEP to describe what I am trying to achieve. I am specifically working with Galene as my reference SFU and have since developed a Converse plugin and an Openfire plugin to prove the concept. In case anyone is interested and wants to collaborate or share ideas, the proto XEP can be found at https://igniterealtime.github.io/openfire-galene-plugin/xep/xep-xxx-sfu_01-01.xml

looking for some guidance on the QUIC XEP, I'd like to write just the protocol bits in a XEP, and leave actual discovery of QUIC connections to another one, does that sound fine? is there precedent ?

does QUIC have any advantage over TCP with direct TLS

yes, a few things, but the main one being free roaming across IPs without reconnections (so wifi -> 4g and back etc)

Is it the end of mobiles being offline all the time?

that's only iOS and, depends how they implement it, but I suspect it won't change much there

Well. I can already configure my server to let my client stay "online" for many hours..

But that not the same as to be possible to get messages

That would be the biggest benefit I think; even with stream resumption conversations takes *ages* to reconnect. More or less every time I turn my phone on to send a message it says "Waiting" for 30 seconds or so and then half the time I get a dozen messages that I had no idea that I had back, it's incredibly frustrating to use XMPP without google's push stuff. Hopefully QUIC could make that a little better

Sam, blame your OS? Mine just generally stays connected, I don't have that experience when switching to it

Also if the app is being killed by the OS, I don't think resumable connections are the answer, unless the client is designed to persist all state

I mean it disconnects every time I walk between wifi and cell and the like, I don't think the OS can really preven tthat

are you in many MUCs ?

That makes no sense then. Resuming does not take 30s, it doesn't sync MAM, MUCs, or anything

Oh, no idea why it's completely disconnecting and not resuming then

Because it generally takes a long time.

Sam, are you using the cheogram app by any chance?

yes

then, that's a known bug, and I have a solution for you :D

it absolutely killed me for maybe 2 months trying to figure it out... just deny access to your contacts from that app

*sigh* figures. Thanks for the heads up

Now I'm torn, I use the contact integration frequently, but also have always thought conversations contact integration is rather bad and needs to be better, so maybe denying it won't make it much worse.

I tried literally everything else first, such a terrible bug

just the fact that it was never consistant, sometimes it'd go a week without any problems, then another week happening all the time

Doesn't it take an awful long time to initialize the radio to the point where you can do anything with it?

Probably that's what accounts for those 30s, maybe throw in some timeouts

yah, LTE radios have a tail time of 11 seconds or so

I don't know how 5G compares, which is what I'm on some of the time.

I just stayed connected to wifi all the time but still cheogram was 12 minutes behind regularly, and took 10 minutes to catch up

I've noticed my Conversations reconnects all the time for no reason, flipping between cell and wifi

lovetox: I can't PM on this client (well, I'm sure there's a way, but I can never remember how). Can you make a comment on a post? Lemmy has a pretty bad UI and I can't do admin functions unless I can do it on a comment in that group

haha yes

I choose to blame Android for having the worst networking stack since the invention of wet string

Regardless, there is a chance that having an IP follow me could help some of the time. So sounds nice.

I agree, every now and then I'll pick up my phone and it'll be disconnected from wifi for no explicable reason

lovetox: done!

I *think* there could be other benefits too but client devs can just experiment with those once it's standardized, like QUIC is 1 handshake and supports multiple independent streams underneath without head-of-line blocking

so, multiple accounts on 1 server? just make 1 QUIC connection

maybe for 1 account you connect and sent prescence, but don't do MUC or MAM on that stream, and you open another stream for MUC and another for MAM catch-up

moparisthebest: for now (before my mobile client speaks QUIC) would having a wireguard link between self and xmpp server yield a subset of this benefit?

I've had wireguard full time on my phone for 2+ years, and you'd think so, but I think not really

Reading all this, it seems I'm very lucky with my phone 😄. But I'm sure quic is still better

I think android OS still tells conversations that the connection is killed and to reconnect, maybe you could patch that out

... twice

Sam, for science how many contacts do you have? your contact app will tell you someplace mine is 814

I don't see it anywhere, but "a lot"

oh, there it is: 330

So maybe not "a lot" relatively speaking

also a lot of mine are emails, I haven't figured out how to get phone # only count easily

> I've noticed my Conversations reconnects all the time for no reason, flipping between cell and wifi You smartphone is probably hacked.

https://upload.movim.eu/files/9d94237298995552fa13436420195fbca436dce7/91lfyopvmLBG/image.png

I have a similar issue .... When client connections are originated on movistar/o2/telefonica networks ... They take up to 5 minutes or maybe more to reach my server (its not all time but most of it) ... Been analyzing streams and seems that packages are being retained somehow on movistar's network before reaching internerd ... Really can't solve it ... Seems that they do deep packet inspection

First usage of muc#roomconfig_pubsub with a proper integration in a XMPP client (afaik)

This allow Movim Communities (basically XMPP Pubsub Nodes with Atom in it) to be linked with MUC chatrooms

Displayed like that

https://upload.movim.eu/files/9d94237298995552fa13436420195fbca436dce7/kr6kKlt3pwos/image.png

(small icon in the top right corner)

By the way, you can find the XMPP Blog of XMPP... on XMPP https://mov.im/?node/pubsub.movim.eu/XMPP

:D

> looking for some guidance on the QUIC XEP, I'd like to write just the protocol bits in a XEP, and leave actual discovery of QUIC connections to another one, does that sound fine? is there precedent ? No one really answered this, any thoughts? :)