XSF Discussion - 2022-05-23

  1. Dele Olajide

    I am currently working on a project to use federated media SFUs with XMPP and got started on an proto XEP to describe what I am trying to achieve. I am specifically working with Galene as my reference SFU and have since developed a Converse plugin and an Openfire plugin to prove the concept. In case anyone is interested and wants to collaborate or share ideas, the proto XEP can be found at https://igniterealtime.github.io/openfire-galene-plugin/xep/xep-xxx-sfu_01-01.xml

  2. moparisthebest

    looking for some guidance on the QUIC XEP, I'd like to write just the protocol bits in a XEP, and leave actual discovery of QUIC connections to another one, does that sound fine? is there precedent ?

  3. lovetox

    does QUIC have any advantage over TCP with direct TLS

  4. moparisthebest

    yes, a few things, but the main one being free roaming across IPs without reconnections (so wifi -> 4g and back etc)

  5. pep.

    Is it the end of mobiles being offline all the time?

  6. moparisthebest

    that's only iOS and, depends how they implement it, but I suspect it won't change much there

  7. menel

    Well. I can already configure my server to let my client stay "online" for many hours..

  8. menel

    But that not the same as to be possible to get messages

  9. Sam

    That would be the biggest benefit I think; even with stream resumption conversations takes *ages* to reconnect. More or less every time I turn my phone on to send a message it says "Waiting" for 30 seconds or so and then half the time I get a dozen messages that I had no idea that I had back, it's incredibly frustrating to use XMPP without google's push stuff. Hopefully QUIC could make that a little better

  10. MattJ

    Sam, blame your OS? Mine just generally stays connected, I don't have that experience when switching to it

  11. MattJ

    Also if the app is being killed by the OS, I don't think resumable connections are the answer, unless the client is designed to persist all state

  12. Sam

    I mean it disconnects every time I walk between wifi and cell and the like, I don't think the OS can really preven tthat

  13. moparisthebest

    are you in many MUCs ?

  14. MattJ

    That makes no sense then. Resuming does not take 30s, it doesn't sync MAM, MUCs, or anything

  15. Sam

    Oh, no idea why it's completely disconnecting and not resuming then

  16. Sam

    Because it generally takes a long time.

  17. moparisthebest

    Sam, are you using the cheogram app by any chance?

  18. Sam


  19. moparisthebest

    then, that's a known bug, and I have a solution for you :D

  20. moparisthebest

    it absolutely killed me for maybe 2 months trying to figure it out... just deny access to your contacts from that app

  21. Sam

    *sigh* figures. Thanks for the heads up

  22. Sam

    Now I'm torn, I use the contact integration frequently, but also have always thought conversations contact integration is rather bad and needs to be better, so maybe denying it won't make it much worse.

  23. moparisthebest

    I tried literally everything else first, such a terrible bug

  24. moparisthebest

    just the fact that it was never consistant, sometimes it'd go a week without any problems, then another week happening all the time

  25. Zash

    Doesn't it take an awful long time to initialize the radio to the point where you can do anything with it?

  26. Zash

    Probably that's what accounts for those 30s, maybe throw in some timeouts

  27. Sam

    yah, LTE radios have a tail time of 11 seconds or so

  28. Sam

    I don't know how 5G compares, which is what I'm on some of the time.

  29. moparisthebest

    I just stayed connected to wifi all the time but still cheogram was 12 minutes behind regularly, and took 10 minutes to catch up

  30. Zash

    I've noticed my Conversations reconnects all the time for no reason, flipping between cell and wifi

  31. Sam

    lovetox: I can't PM on this client (well, I'm sure there's a way, but I can never remember how). Can you make a comment on a post? Lemmy has a pretty bad UI and I can't do admin functions unless I can do it on a comment in that group

  32. lovetox

    haha yes

  33. Zash

    I choose to blame Android for having the worst networking stack since the invention of wet string

  34. Sam

    Regardless, there is a chance that having an IP follow me could help some of the time. So sounds nice.

  35. moparisthebest

    I agree, every now and then I'll pick up my phone and it'll be disconnected from wifi for no explicable reason

  36. Sam

    lovetox: done!

  37. moparisthebest

    I *think* there could be other benefits too but client devs can just experiment with those once it's standardized, like QUIC is 1 handshake and supports multiple independent streams underneath without head-of-line blocking

  38. moparisthebest

    so, multiple accounts on 1 server? just make 1 QUIC connection

  39. moparisthebest

    maybe for 1 account you connect and sent prescence, but don't do MUC or MAM on that stream, and you open another stream for MUC and another for MAM catch-up

  40. wgreenhouse

    moparisthebest: for now (before my mobile client speaks QUIC) would having a wireguard link between self and xmpp server yield a subset of this benefit?

  41. moparisthebest

    I've had wireguard full time on my phone for 2+ years, and you'd think so, but I think not really

  42. menel

    Reading all this, it seems I'm very lucky with my phone 😄. But I'm sure quic is still better

  43. moparisthebest

    I think android OS still tells conversations that the connection is killed and to reconnect, maybe you could patch that out

  44. Zash

    ... twice

  45. moparisthebest

    Sam, for science how many contacts do you have? your contact app will tell you someplace mine is 814

  46. Sam

    I don't see it anywhere, but "a lot"

  47. Sam

    oh, there it is: 330

  48. Sam

    So maybe not "a lot" relatively speaking

  49. moparisthebest

    also a lot of mine are emails, I haven't figured out how to get phone # only count easily

  50. Paganini

    > I've noticed my Conversations reconnects all the time for no reason, flipping between cell and wifi You smartphone is probably hacked.

  51. edhelas


  52. TheCoffeMaker

    I have a similar issue .... When client connections are originated on movistar/o2/telefonica networks ... They take up to 5 minutes or maybe more to reach my server (its not all time but most of it) ... Been analyzing streams and seems that packages are being retained somehow on movistar's network before reaching internerd ... Really can't solve it ... Seems that they do deep packet inspection

  53. edhelas

    First usage of muc#roomconfig_pubsub with a proper integration in a XMPP client (afaik)

  54. edhelas

    This allow Movim Communities (basically XMPP Pubsub Nodes with Atom in it) to be linked with MUC chatrooms

  55. edhelas

    Displayed like that

  56. edhelas


  57. edhelas

    (small icon in the top right corner)

  58. edhelas

    By the way, you can find the XMPP Blog of XMPP... on XMPP https://mov.im/?node/pubsub.movim.eu/XMPP

  59. edhelas


  60. moparisthebest

    > looking for some guidance on the QUIC XEP, I'd like to write just the protocol bits in a XEP, and leave actual discovery of QUIC connections to another one, does that sound fine? is there precedent ? No one really answered this, any thoughts? :)