XSF Discussion - 2022-05-28


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  266. Link Mauve “14:51:45 jonas’> ok, can someone please load a module on this MUC server which sets origin-id to hello world for all messages? kthxbai”, I already have a poezio module for that, it broke Matrix.
  267. Link Mauve Let’s load it. :)
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  269. Link Mauve Here, it is loaded.
  270. mdosch Test.
  271. Link Mauve If your client is displaying this message, it does better deduplication than just based on origin-id.
  272. Link Mauve mdosch, poezio, not MUC.
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  274. mdosch Oh
  275. Link Mauve Unless it got fixed recently, Matrix users won’t see my messages any more.
  276. Link Mauve And from the discussion before, Converse won’t either.
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  278. Maranda Didn't work sorry
  279. Maranda Ok plx thnx bye
  280. Link Mauve Maranda, what didn’t work?
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  282. Link Mauve The last time it did, so perhaps you fixed it. :)
  283. Link Mauve “14:56:08 Zash> Time to dig up the idea of IDs being based on a (stream-id, stanza-counter) tuple?”, that’s what we used to use in slixmpp, but people complained that it wasn’t unique enough. :<
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  288. pep. Well it was predicatable, mostly
  289. pep. Well it was predictable, mostly
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  292. pep. I'm not saying that would allow clients not to deduplicate still, but if we can avoid it..
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  296. Maranda It will break clients not Bifrost for sure
  297. Maranda origin_id gets just stored, otherwise there's no processing on it
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  303. Maranda[x] Bifrost cares about the stanza id attribute for deduplication not origin-id
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  309. Maranda So changing origin-id or stanza-id will do nothing changing the stanza id will get Bifrost to silently discard the messages until they fall off the deduplication cache hardly break anything
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  387. Maranda[x] The problem as I see it is very simple, it's demented to have three different kind of ids for message stanzas (or any other kind), there should be only one which should be of (at least semi/simil-)unique nature
  388. Zash Doesn't Matrix have even more IDs?
  389. jonas’ Maranda[x], you don't say!
  390. jonas’ tell
  391. jonas’ Maranda[x], now go and tell that to jcbrand ;)
  392. Zash We need more IDs to keep up!!!
  393. Maranda[x] No Zash, all event ids are unique
  394. Zash (or was it timestamps?)
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  396. Zash > > IDs being based on a (stream-id, stanza-counter) tuple > that’s what we used to use in slixmpp, but people complained that it wasn’t unique [or predictable] enough. :< But it would be guaranteed to be unique, since the stream id is supposed to be uniquely set by the server. Stuff the tuple trough HMAC to keep the stream ID secret, and the resulting ID shorter.
  397. Zash Also means you know what the ID will be ahead of time, without the server needing to tell you.
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  400. Maranda > <Zash> (or was it timestamps?) Probably timestamps, one is the original server timestamp the other is the age of the event processal when fetching batches from syncs or paginations
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  405. Maranda > <Zash> (or was it timestamps?) Probably timestamps, one is the original server timestamp the other is the age from the event processal when fetching batches from syncs or paginations
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  609. qy Time-based uuids sound good enough and make collisions basically impossible, right?
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  611. qy I vote make it standard to use those for stanza-id and silently ignore origin-id
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  616. Zash https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-peabody-dispatch-new-uuid-format/ FTR
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  620. Zash Tho if you just say "use UUIDv7", that doesn't magically stop anyone from still setting the id to "lol", potentially causing havoc
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  622. Zash Only the server can save us from that! :P
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  624. qy But who watches the server...
  625. Zash The server is perfect. The server always does the right thing. Trust in the server. The server is good.
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