XSF Discussion - 2022-06-02


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  268. thndrbvr Bridges and bots. i.e. streamlabs type stuff. discord <-> twitch. (Ew but so useful. Greatly adds to the experience)
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  277. Guus Is there any concern that would prevent xep-0431 from progressing?
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  281. Guus I believe it primarily standardizes a field name for functionality that is already implemented in various servers (Openfire, EJabberd and M-Link, from my old notes).
  282. Guus I got in another "oh we can't use it because the XEP says you shouldn't do this in production" argument that I'd like to avoid in the future. :)
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  291. MattJ I don't like it as-is, but it shouldn't be hard to fix
  292. MattJ And I say this every time it comes up
  293. Zash Write down what and why, post it to the list?
  294. MattJ We need to standardize two fields: one that guarantees no interpretation (the input is always treated as literal text) and another that allows implementation-defined syntax
  295. MattJ If we only standardize one, it should be the former, but this XEP currently says it is the lattet
  296. MattJ If we only standardize one, it should be the former, but this XEP currently says it is the latter
  297. MattJ Which makes it painful for interop, useful only for closed deployments
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  300. MattJ I'd be interested to know what current implementations are doing
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  303. MattJ If they're all doing simple search then we should just adjust the semantics of the current field, if not then we should define a second one
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  324. Guus Openfire currently takes the value, and will process it as a Lucene index query.
  325. Guus eg: "experiance" (SIC) yields 2 results from 11 million archived messages, while "experiance~" yields 500, which is a little bit more than the literal search for "experience"
  326. MattJ Right, exactly what I feared 🙂
  327. MattJ I will attempt a PR if you attempt to prevent me forgetting
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  329. Guus Sure, thanks.
  330. Guus feasible timeline after which pokes are in order?
  331. Guus (hours, days, weeks?)
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  340. MattJ Poke me early next week
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  348. Guus ack
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  631. arc So.. meeting today?
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  642. MattJ arc, what do you think? :)
  643. MattJ Guus, is the Openfire search code public? Can you share a link to it if so?
  644. arc I think that once again I came to the scheduled meeting to find no one here
  645. moparisthebest arc: https://i.imgflip.com/6id83h.jpg
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  647. arc That's a pretty huge compliments to compare me to sanders
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  693. Guus > Guus, is the Openfire search code public? Can you share a link to it if so? MattJ: Yes, it is part of the Monitoring plugin for Openfire (where the MAM implementation lives). It's in this repo: https://github.com/igniterealtime/openfire-monitoring-plugin
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  695. Guus I can give more details when I am near a pc again. I am on mobile now.
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  721. MattJ Thanks
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  764. MattJ Guus, https://matthewwild.co.uk/uploads/xeps/xep-0431.html + https://github.com/xsf/xeps/compare/master...mwild1:xep-0431-v0.3.0?expand=1
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  766. MattJ This closes all my personal open issues with full-text search in MAM
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  811. guus.der.kinderen MattJ: wow, that's quite an addition. I wonder if we're edging towards overkill, but I don't have any objections to that.
  812. guus.der.kinderen Is having a registry of search syntax types going to be practical, when alternatives start to pop up for the same syntax type, but with a different version identifier, or somesuch? We can certainly maintain a registry - but should we?
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  824. MattJ I'm open to not, but I think it's helpful if most people are going to be using the same engines (there aren't an infinite number of them)
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  827. MattJ It just gives clients even more of a chance to offer some sane UI around this feature, but I expect most won't anyway
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  831. Guus ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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  835. Zash - an appreciator of XEP-0122 - wonders if XEP-0122 could be used to signal such stuff
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  843. MattJ Zash: which stuff exactly?
  844. Zash The _stuff_ !!
  845. MattJ I didn't think that language/syntax fitted as validation, so I made custom elements
  846. Zash Here, probably inventing a datatype per engine.
  847. Zash Language does indeed not quite fit into that without further fiddlery.
  848. MattJ guus.der.kinderen: if you think the proposed additions might be overkill... now that you've seen them, what would you cut out?
  849. MattJ Only the syntax?
  850. MattJ (+registry)
  851. Zash Hm, `xml:lang`
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  873. Guus MattJ: even though your update is a lot more feature rich, I wonder if the added complexity hinders adoption more than it adds any real world value through implementation. Like you said: most probably won't implement the details anyway. With that in mind, I would be fine with the previous version of the XEP.
  874. Guus I personally don't plan to implement the 'simple' search, as I expect that it would not be that easy to do, while the added benefit to end users is negligible.
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  897. MattJ Guus, I don't think it's negligible - many such engines will silently interpret words like "and", "or" and "not" with unexpected results
  898. MattJ and who knows what else
  899. MattJ and every server would do it slightly differently, so it's not something a user could just learn
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  909. Guus MattJ: I don't think that you're wrong.
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  934. MattJ My preference is strongly for simple searches, and if we were going to cut anything out, it would be the advanced searches. But I'm not arguing for that because 1) it's already implemented 2) it likely is actually useful in many cases (especially when client and server are controlled)
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  941. MattJ If you actually read the Lucene query syntax, there are so many ways it could trip up an unsuspecting user who thinks they can just enter arbitrary text strings to search for
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  975. MattJ Will post to the list tomorrow about my proposed changes. Good night!
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