XSF Discussion - 2022-06-16


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  344. Tobias HTTP File Upload should work from within a browser, considering correct CORS headers are set, right?
  345. MattJ Correct
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  378. Tobias https://pastebin.com/raw/DeG71TxK any clues why it would say "unknown slot"
  379. Tobias wrong room
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  481. lovetox im reading XEP-0388
  482. lovetox > At any time while authentication is in progress, neither Client nor Server sends any element (including stanzas) or other data except the top-level elements defined herein. Clients MUST NOT send whitespace, and MUST send only <response/> elements as appropriate or an <abort/> element to immediately cause an error.
  483. lovetox why am i not allowed to send a whitespace?
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  497. moparisthebest Unsure about this, I think I hate it https://delta.chat/en/2022-06-14-webxdcintro
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  499. Zash > web definitely hate it
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  510. moparisthebest I can't find info about how they are sandboxed, which makes me think they put no thought into that and assumed ancient vuln riddled Android bundled webview is enough, yikes
  511. Guus what is the intended behavior in pubsub, when a subscriber (subscribed with a bare JID) is online with more than one resource, when a new publication occurs?
  512. Zash Guus: event notification sent to the bare jid, receiving server does forking like with any other message?
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  521. Guus Openfire might be doing 'any other message' wrong
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  523. MattJ moparisthebest: time to bundle converse.js as a .xdc?
  524. moparisthebest MattJ: ooh ingenious, suddenly all 50 deltachat users are now XMPP users
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  529. MattJ https://docs.webxdc.org/spec.html#messenger-implementation has some notes about sandboxing
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  538. moparisthebest So... No internet access other than they can transmit unlimited messages? :thinking:
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  542. moparisthebest Anyone get a chance to look at https://xmpp.org/extensions/inbox/xmpp-over-quic.html or https://xmpp.org/extensions/inbox/websocket-s2s.html yet ?
  543. MattJ Not yet
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  548. Zash They looked short and I'm skeptical of keeping the framing that was added because browser clients supposedly can't parse streaming XML.
  549. MattJ Zash, even before websockets there were people arguing for framing. I'm not strongly one way or the other, but it certainly makes some things easier
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  551. MattJ Quite a few things, in fact
  552. moparisthebest Not changing websocket at all makes it trivial to add support with approximately one if statement
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  554. moparisthebest I would argue for XMPP 2.0 we should add explicit framing even for TLS/quic streams
  555. moparisthebest Not having it is the source of countless bugs and security issues
  556. MattJ We already have framing in XMPP over websocket
  557. MattJ Oh, I misread what you said, ignore me
  558. Thilo Molitor has joined
  559. Zash I mean the XML fiddlery that makes xmpp-over-ws ≠ xmpp + ws
  560. Zash MattJ, weren't all our recent security and memory consumption issues _because_ of per-message XML parsing?
  561. MattJ :)
  562. moparisthebest Yea I don't like the changing namespace, I would love to keep it jabber:server actually
  563. Zash And I think I just dropped 25% of RSS by cutting down on similar stuff.
  564. Zash If anything I'd want a websocket subprotocol where you just send normal XMPP over websocket (with the websocket framing, but without the <open/> and whatnot)
  565. moparisthebest The prosody memory hog bug was due to lack of framing and so was the recent zoom ejabberd/gloox bug
  566. moparisthebest Zash: yes that would make way more sense imho
  567. MattJ But then web clients have to implement streaming parsers
  568. Zash No
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  570. Zash Servers would need to support two methods
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  572. moparisthebest They can just pretend the stream header is a stand alone stanza
  573. MattJ Zash, I'm not a fan of yet more ways to do things
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  576. MattJ More ways to do things -> more surface area to maintain and for bugs and security issues to hide in
  577. Zash Therefore ... s2s over websockets?
  578. moparisthebest We can save that for the upcoming replacement to websockets
  579. Zash s2s over tcp + s2s over tls isn't enough?
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  581. Zash If it's meant to solve the problem that certain hosting providers are strictly http-only, isn't this _not_ going to solve that until 100% of servers implement it?
  582. Zash A problem IMO should be solved by not giving such providers any business whatsoever
  583. moparisthebest Gotta start somewhere I guess
  584. MattJ Yeah, I'm not really sure about s2s-over-ws
  585. Zash Fix your providers and firewalls!
  586. moparisthebest I've already seen a hundred questions in Snikket about why it can't run behind an http proxy
  587. Zash Working around those problems just moves us towards the future where only the web is allowed
  588. Zash I don't want to live in that future
  589. moparisthebest It's already here, we live in the bad place
  590. MattJ moparisthebest, and you want to replace them with "why can't I contact someone on <any other XMPP domain>?" :)
  591. moparisthebest I get the impression those people don't know federation exists anyway
  592. Zash Other wording of that is that you have the same deployment problem as DANE&DNSSEC
  593. MattJ We already have some of that simply due to requiring valid TLS certificates!
  594. MattJ Which you would think wouldn't be too much to ask in 2022
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  596. moparisthebest I think the whole point is servers that already implement c2s websocket can turn this on easily
  597. Zash With s2s the hard part is usually the outgoing connections
  598. Zash At least it has been in Prosody every time, i.e. for IPv6 and direct TLS
  599. Zash and unless you mean your proxy, I imagine some refactoring would be needed for incoming too
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  601. moparisthebest Fair... I just took all that away from prosody, xmpp-proxy does all the lookups and TLS
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  604. Zash https://cerdale.zash.se/s/2en3dRC9dwgWwPKHZtZr_yhq/284d07c9-6d8a-4efc-a985-abbb037e5650.png
  605. moparisthebest Prosody just accepts plan TCP on localhost and makes plain TCP connections to a hardcoded localhost port for everything outgoing and that's it
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  607. moparisthebest Just 1 ! :)
  608. Zash That's how it starts. Just ask the web people
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  650. flow lovetox, good question why it's strictly forbidden, however there also doesn't seem to be much use of whitespace pings during SASL auth
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  652. flow as there is always one entity that needs to send something at any point in time during auth
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  661. Zash Doesn't that text exist about the existing SASL exchange?
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  664. Zash Yeah, https://xmpp.org/rfcs/rfc6120.html#sasl-rules-data
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  666. Zash I think Dave or someone said it's a leftover from when SASL also provided the security layer that these days are provided by TLS
  667. moparisthebest I bet a ton of things let you send whitespace
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