XSF Discussion - 2022-06-16


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  344. Tobias

    HTTP File Upload should work from within a browser, considering correct CORS headers are set, right?

  345. MattJ

    Correct

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  378. Tobias

    https://pastebin.com/raw/DeG71TxK any clues why it would say "unknown slot"

  379. Tobias

    wrong room

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  481. lovetox

    im reading XEP-0388

  482. lovetox

    > At any time while authentication is in progress, neither Client nor Server sends any element (including stanzas) or other data except the top-level elements defined herein. Clients MUST NOT send whitespace, and MUST send only <response/> elements as appropriate or an <abort/> element to immediately cause an error.

  483. lovetox

    why am i not allowed to send a whitespace?

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  497. moparisthebest

    Unsure about this, I think I hate it https://delta.chat/en/2022-06-14-webxdcintro

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  499. Zash

    > web definitely hate it

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  510. moparisthebest

    I can't find info about how they are sandboxed, which makes me think they put no thought into that and assumed ancient vuln riddled Android bundled webview is enough, yikes

  511. Guus

    what is the intended behavior in pubsub, when a subscriber (subscribed with a bare JID) is online with more than one resource, when a new publication occurs?

  512. Zash

    Guus: event notification sent to the bare jid, receiving server does forking like with any other message?

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  521. Guus

    Openfire might be doing 'any other message' wrong

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  523. MattJ

    moparisthebest: time to bundle converse.js as a .xdc?

  524. moparisthebest

    MattJ: ooh ingenious, suddenly all 50 deltachat users are now XMPP users

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  529. MattJ

    https://docs.webxdc.org/spec.html#messenger-implementation has some notes about sandboxing

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  538. moparisthebest

    So... No internet access other than they can transmit unlimited messages? :thinking:

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  542. moparisthebest

    Anyone get a chance to look at https://xmpp.org/extensions/inbox/xmpp-over-quic.html or https://xmpp.org/extensions/inbox/websocket-s2s.html yet ?

  543. MattJ

    Not yet

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  548. Zash

    They looked short and I'm skeptical of keeping the framing that was added because browser clients supposedly can't parse streaming XML.

  549. MattJ

    Zash, even before websockets there were people arguing for framing. I'm not strongly one way or the other, but it certainly makes some things easier

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  551. MattJ

    Quite a few things, in fact

  552. moparisthebest

    Not changing websocket at all makes it trivial to add support with approximately one if statement

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  554. moparisthebest

    I would argue for XMPP 2.0 we should add explicit framing even for TLS/quic streams

  555. moparisthebest

    Not having it is the source of countless bugs and security issues

  556. MattJ

    We already have framing in XMPP over websocket

  557. MattJ

    Oh, I misread what you said, ignore me

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  559. Zash

    I mean the XML fiddlery that makes xmpp-over-ws ≠ xmpp + ws

  560. Zash

    MattJ, weren't all our recent security and memory consumption issues _because_ of per-message XML parsing?

  561. MattJ

    :)

  562. moparisthebest

    Yea I don't like the changing namespace, I would love to keep it jabber:server actually

  563. Zash

    And I think I just dropped 25% of RSS by cutting down on similar stuff.

  564. Zash

    If anything I'd want a websocket subprotocol where you just send normal XMPP over websocket (with the websocket framing, but without the <open/> and whatnot)

  565. moparisthebest

    The prosody memory hog bug was due to lack of framing and so was the recent zoom ejabberd/gloox bug

  566. moparisthebest

    Zash: yes that would make way more sense imho

  567. MattJ

    But then web clients have to implement streaming parsers

  568. Zash

    No

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  570. Zash

    Servers would need to support two methods

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  572. moparisthebest

    They can just pretend the stream header is a stand alone stanza

  573. MattJ

    Zash, I'm not a fan of yet more ways to do things

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  576. MattJ

    More ways to do things -> more surface area to maintain and for bugs and security issues to hide in

  577. Zash

    Therefore ... s2s over websockets?

  578. moparisthebest

    We can save that for the upcoming replacement to websockets

  579. Zash

    s2s over tcp + s2s over tls isn't enough?

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  581. Zash

    If it's meant to solve the problem that certain hosting providers are strictly http-only, isn't this _not_ going to solve that until 100% of servers implement it?

  582. Zash

    A problem IMO should be solved by not giving such providers any business whatsoever

  583. moparisthebest

    Gotta start somewhere I guess

  584. MattJ

    Yeah, I'm not really sure about s2s-over-ws

  585. Zash

    Fix your providers and firewalls!

  586. moparisthebest

    I've already seen a hundred questions in Snikket about why it can't run behind an http proxy

  587. Zash

    Working around those problems just moves us towards the future where only the web is allowed

  588. Zash

    I don't want to live in that future

  589. moparisthebest

    It's already here, we live in the bad place

  590. MattJ

    moparisthebest, and you want to replace them with "why can't I contact someone on <any other XMPP domain>?" :)

  591. moparisthebest

    I get the impression those people don't know federation exists anyway

  592. Zash

    Other wording of that is that you have the same deployment problem as DANE&DNSSEC

  593. MattJ

    We already have some of that simply due to requiring valid TLS certificates!

  594. MattJ

    Which you would think wouldn't be too much to ask in 2022

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  596. moparisthebest

    I think the whole point is servers that already implement c2s websocket can turn this on easily

  597. Zash

    With s2s the hard part is usually the outgoing connections

  598. Zash

    At least it has been in Prosody every time, i.e. for IPv6 and direct TLS

  599. Zash

    and unless you mean your proxy, I imagine some refactoring would be needed for incoming too

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  601. moparisthebest

    Fair... I just took all that away from prosody, xmpp-proxy does all the lookups and TLS

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  604. Zash

    https://cerdale.zash.se/s/2en3dRC9dwgWwPKHZtZr_yhq/284d07c9-6d8a-4efc-a985-abbb037e5650.png

  605. moparisthebest

    Prosody just accepts plan TCP on localhost and makes plain TCP connections to a hardcoded localhost port for everything outgoing and that's it

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  607. moparisthebest

    Just 1 ! :)

  608. Zash

    That's how it starts. Just ask the web people

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  650. flow

    lovetox, good question why it's strictly forbidden, however there also doesn't seem to be much use of whitespace pings during SASL auth

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  652. flow

    as there is always one entity that needs to send something at any point in time during auth

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  661. Zash

    Doesn't that text exist about the existing SASL exchange?

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  664. Zash

    Yeah, https://xmpp.org/rfcs/rfc6120.html#sasl-rules-data

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  666. Zash

    I think Dave or someone said it's a leftover from when SASL also provided the security layer that these days are provided by TLS

  667. moparisthebest

    I bet a ton of things let you send whitespace

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