XSF Discussion - 2022-06-20


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  345. goffi Hi, I'm willing to implement XEP-0292 (VCard 4), but I don't really understand: there is a specific IQ protocol, and PEP is used only for event notifications (but not to store the vcard), and a whitelist node is used to store the card. The seems overcomplicated, why not using simply PEP? Also it seems that at least Movim is storing the card in the public PEP node, which is not what the XEP says. Prosody's https://prosody.im/doc/modules/mod_vcard4 also talks about storing in the PEP node.
  346. goffi (ping edhelas MattJ ^)
  347. MattJ goffi, it's PEP
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  349. MattJ For some reason it also has a dedicated iq protocol, but you don't have to use it
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  351. MattJ Everything can be done with PEP
  352. Zash IIRC the IQ protocol was meant to simplify upgrading from vcard-temp, and may have been intended to work in MUC (which it doesn't)
  353. goffi MattJ: this is not what the XEP says, https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0292.html#public is a specific protocol, and https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0292.html#sect-idm44771566970704 footnote says that the nofication should be empty and the proprietary protocol should be used instead.
  354. Zash (unless the MUC cooperates in the same way it does with vcard-temp)
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  356. goffi OK I'll use PEP then, it's more logical and apparently it's what others are doing
  357. goffi the XEP has to be updated though.
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  359. Zash Sadly I still haven't gotten around to fixing all the problems the XEP has.
  360. goffi I would like to propose a patch to fix it, but franly I have no extra time at all, I need to focus 100% on the AP gateway and rest of the grant I've had.
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  362. Zash Like, the XEP mandates that the vcard be completely public, but a big benefit of building on PEP is the access control features possible with "extended" PEP (aka more pubsub features)
  363. MattJ https://mail.jabber.org/pipermail/standards/2019-January/035710.html
  364. MattJ ^ Zash's feedback on the XEP on list
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  370. MattJ The "Why dedicated iq?" question seems to have been asked a lot, but never directly answered afaict
  371. MattJ I think at the time a lot of servers and clients lacked PEP support, so it possibly made more sense to provide an alternative
  372. MattJ But that's no longer the case, so I think it's best to drop it
  373. Zash I have a vague memory of this being the conclusion of a Summit discussion loooooooooong ago.
  374. Zash to add the iq, that is, probably for the reasons MattJ mentions, and MUC support (but that doesn't Just Work, as said)
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  377. Zash Bunch of TODOs I've sat on, waiting for the day I feel like turning it into proper prose: https://github.com/xsf/xeps/compare/master...Zash:xep-0292-updates
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  436. singpolyma I'm pro dropping the dedicated iq, but then the xep definitely needs to say pep is allowed. I'm about to implement this soon and would have used the iq for compatibility even knowing the existing implementations happen to allow pep. But if the XEP is going to say pep is allowed then I would prefer to use that
  437. singpolyma Could a MUC cooperate for a single pep node fetch same as it does for vcard-temp? I think probably yes
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  441. MattJ singpolyma, yes, Prosody does this. It's surprisingly controversial though...
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  449. MattJ https://blog.prosody.im/modern-xmpp-auth/ - if any client devs are particularly interested in collaborating on XEP-0388 and 2FA support, let me know :)
  450. Zash and maybe roles and scopes and stuff?
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  454. MattJ After the authentication stuff, yeah, that's next
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  458. singpolyma I'm happy to help figure out Android stuff for Cheogram/Snikket Android and probably Conversations eventually
  459. goffi > I'm pro dropping the dedicated iq, but then the xep definitely needs to say pep is allowed. I'm about to implement this soon and would have used the iq for compatibility even knowing the existing implementations happen to allow pep. But if the XEP is going to say pep is allowed then I would prefer to use that I don't think that I'll implement the dedicated IQ, it feels like a lost of time.
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  461. singpolyma goffi: so long as every server will end up supporting pep for it, I agree
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  581. lovetox hm why are you saying the vcard iq odes not work in MUC?
  582. lovetox why would it not work ..
  583. Zash It depends on the existence of the same hack that exists for vcard-temp
  584. Zash So, just adding an iq by itself does nothing.
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  587. lovetox hm i see i dont implement the IQ as well
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  597. lovetox im simply make a pubsub request to the participant JID
  598. lovetox and prosody seems to convert it
  599. lovetox i also think we should drop the IQ one
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  602. Zash Prosody MUC does the hack for vcard-temp, vcard4 (the iq) and PEP, so either works
  603. lovetox can it do the same for avatar?
  604. Zash avatar is PEP, right?
  605. lovetox yes
  606. lovetox so you are saying it does it for all pep requests
  607. lovetox not specifically for vcard ones
  608. lovetox hmm
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  610. lovetox can i drop vcard-temp ..
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  613. lovetox i can simlpy request pubsub with the avatar hash, if im not mistaken
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  615. lovetox though with the conversion mods it doesnt matter anyway
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