XSF Discussion - 2022-06-20


  1. goffi

    Hi, I'm willing to implement XEP-0292 (VCard 4), but I don't really understand: there is a specific IQ protocol, and PEP is used only for event notifications (but not to store the vcard), and a whitelist node is used to store the card. The seems overcomplicated, why not using simply PEP? Also it seems that at least Movim is storing the card in the public PEP node, which is not what the XEP says. Prosody's https://prosody.im/doc/modules/mod_vcard4 also talks about storing in the PEP node.

  2. goffi

    (ping edhelas MattJ ^)

  3. MattJ

    goffi, it's PEP

  4. MattJ

    For some reason it also has a dedicated iq protocol, but you don't have to use it

  5. MattJ

    Everything can be done with PEP

  6. Zash

    IIRC the IQ protocol was meant to simplify upgrading from vcard-temp, and may have been intended to work in MUC (which it doesn't)

  7. goffi

    MattJ: this is not what the XEP says, https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0292.html#public is a specific protocol, and https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0292.html#sect-idm44771566970704 footnote says that the nofication should be empty and the proprietary protocol should be used instead.

  8. Zash

    (unless the MUC cooperates in the same way it does with vcard-temp)

  9. goffi

    OK I'll use PEP then, it's more logical and apparently it's what others are doing

  10. goffi

    the XEP has to be updated though.

  11. Zash

    Sadly I still haven't gotten around to fixing all the problems the XEP has.

  12. goffi

    I would like to propose a patch to fix it, but franly I have no extra time at all, I need to focus 100% on the AP gateway and rest of the grant I've had.

  13. Zash

    Like, the XEP mandates that the vcard be completely public, but a big benefit of building on PEP is the access control features possible with "extended" PEP (aka more pubsub features)

  14. MattJ

    https://mail.jabber.org/pipermail/standards/2019-January/035710.html

  15. MattJ

    ^ Zash's feedback on the XEP on list

  16. MattJ

    The "Why dedicated iq?" question seems to have been asked a lot, but never directly answered afaict

  17. MattJ

    I think at the time a lot of servers and clients lacked PEP support, so it possibly made more sense to provide an alternative

  18. MattJ

    But that's no longer the case, so I think it's best to drop it

  19. Zash

    I have a vague memory of this being the conclusion of a Summit discussion loooooooooong ago.

  20. Zash

    to add the iq, that is, probably for the reasons MattJ mentions, and MUC support (but that doesn't Just Work, as said)

  21. Zash

    Bunch of TODOs I've sat on, waiting for the day I feel like turning it into proper prose: https://github.com/xsf/xeps/compare/master...Zash:xep-0292-updates

  22. singpolyma

    I'm pro dropping the dedicated iq, but then the xep definitely needs to say pep is allowed. I'm about to implement this soon and would have used the iq for compatibility even knowing the existing implementations happen to allow pep. But if the XEP is going to say pep is allowed then I would prefer to use that

  23. singpolyma

    Could a MUC cooperate for a single pep node fetch same as it does for vcard-temp? I think probably yes

  24. MattJ

    singpolyma, yes, Prosody does this. It's surprisingly controversial though...

  25. MattJ

    https://blog.prosody.im/modern-xmpp-auth/ - if any client devs are particularly interested in collaborating on XEP-0388 and 2FA support, let me know :)

  26. Zash

    and maybe roles and scopes and stuff?

  27. MattJ

    After the authentication stuff, yeah, that's next

  28. singpolyma

    I'm happy to help figure out Android stuff for Cheogram/Snikket Android and probably Conversations eventually

  29. goffi

    > I'm pro dropping the dedicated iq, but then the xep definitely needs to say pep is allowed. I'm about to implement this soon and would have used the iq for compatibility even knowing the existing implementations happen to allow pep. But if the XEP is going to say pep is allowed then I would prefer to use that I don't think that I'll implement the dedicated IQ, it feels like a lost of time.

  30. singpolyma

    goffi: so long as every server will end up supporting pep for it, I agree

  31. lovetox

    hm why are you saying the vcard iq odes not work in MUC?

  32. lovetox

    why would it not work ..

  33. Zash

    It depends on the existence of the same hack that exists for vcard-temp

  34. Zash

    So, just adding an iq by itself does nothing.

  35. lovetox

    hm i see i dont implement the IQ as well

  36. lovetox

    im simply make a pubsub request to the participant JID

  37. lovetox

    and prosody seems to convert it

  38. lovetox

    i also think we should drop the IQ one

  39. Zash

    Prosody MUC does the hack for vcard-temp, vcard4 (the iq) and PEP, so either works

  40. lovetox

    can it do the same for avatar?

  41. Zash

    avatar is PEP, right?

  42. lovetox

    yes

  43. lovetox

    so you are saying it does it for all pep requests

  44. lovetox

    not specifically for vcard ones

  45. lovetox

    hmm

  46. lovetox

    can i drop vcard-temp ..

  47. lovetox

    i can simlpy request pubsub with the avatar hash, if im not mistaken

  48. lovetox

    though with the conversion mods it doesnt matter anyway