XSF Discussion - 2022-06-20

Hi, I'm willing to implement XEP-0292 (VCard 4), but I don't really understand: there is a specific IQ protocol, and PEP is used only for event notifications (but not to store the vcard), and a whitelist node is used to store the card. The seems overcomplicated, why not using simply PEP? Also it seems that at least Movim is storing the card in the public PEP node, which is not what the XEP says. Prosody's https://prosody.im/doc/modules/mod_vcard4 also talks about storing in the PEP node.

(ping edhelas MattJ ^)

goffi, it's PEP

For some reason it also has a dedicated iq protocol, but you don't have to use it

Everything can be done with PEP

IIRC the IQ protocol was meant to simplify upgrading from vcard-temp, and may have been intended to work in MUC (which it doesn't)

MattJ: this is not what the XEP says, https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0292.html#public is a specific protocol, and https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0292.html#sect-idm44771566970704 footnote says that the nofication should be empty and the proprietary protocol should be used instead.

(unless the MUC cooperates in the same way it does with vcard-temp)

OK I'll use PEP then, it's more logical and apparently it's what others are doing

the XEP has to be updated though.

Sadly I still haven't gotten around to fixing all the problems the XEP has.

I would like to propose a patch to fix it, but franly I have no extra time at all, I need to focus 100% on the AP gateway and rest of the grant I've had.

Like, the XEP mandates that the vcard be completely public, but a big benefit of building on PEP is the access control features possible with "extended" PEP (aka more pubsub features)

https://mail.jabber.org/pipermail/standards/2019-January/035710.html

^ Zash's feedback on the XEP on list

The "Why dedicated iq?" question seems to have been asked a lot, but never directly answered afaict

I think at the time a lot of servers and clients lacked PEP support, so it possibly made more sense to provide an alternative

But that's no longer the case, so I think it's best to drop it

I have a vague memory of this being the conclusion of a Summit discussion loooooooooong ago.

to add the iq, that is, probably for the reasons MattJ mentions, and MUC support (but that doesn't Just Work, as said)

Bunch of TODOs I've sat on, waiting for the day I feel like turning it into proper prose: https://github.com/xsf/xeps/compare/master...Zash:xep-0292-updates

I'm pro dropping the dedicated iq, but then the xep definitely needs to say pep is allowed. I'm about to implement this soon and would have used the iq for compatibility even knowing the existing implementations happen to allow pep. But if the XEP is going to say pep is allowed then I would prefer to use that

Could a MUC cooperate for a single pep node fetch same as it does for vcard-temp? I think probably yes

singpolyma, yes, Prosody does this. It's surprisingly controversial though...

https://blog.prosody.im/modern-xmpp-auth/ - if any client devs are particularly interested in collaborating on XEP-0388 and 2FA support, let me know :)

and maybe roles and scopes and stuff?

After the authentication stuff, yeah, that's next

I'm happy to help figure out Android stuff for Cheogram/Snikket Android and probably Conversations eventually

> I'm pro dropping the dedicated iq, but then the xep definitely needs to say pep is allowed. I'm about to implement this soon and would have used the iq for compatibility even knowing the existing implementations happen to allow pep. But if the XEP is going to say pep is allowed then I would prefer to use that I don't think that I'll implement the dedicated IQ, it feels like a lost of time.

goffi: so long as every server will end up supporting pep for it, I agree

hm why are you saying the vcard iq odes not work in MUC?

why would it not work ..

It depends on the existence of the same hack that exists for vcard-temp

So, just adding an iq by itself does nothing.

hm i see i dont implement the IQ as well

im simply make a pubsub request to the participant JID

and prosody seems to convert it

i also think we should drop the IQ one

Prosody MUC does the hack for vcard-temp, vcard4 (the iq) and PEP, so either works

can it do the same for avatar?

avatar is PEP, right?

yes

so you are saying it does it for all pep requests

not specifically for vcard ones

hmm

can i drop vcard-temp ..

i can simlpy request pubsub with the avatar hash, if im not mistaken

though with the conversion mods it doesnt matter anyway