XSF Discussion - 2022-06-23

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  208. Tobias when a client publishes something to a pubsub node, is the node automatically created if it does not exist?
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  213. MattJ Maybe
  214. MattJ It's an optional feature, but it's required for PEP
  215. MattJ https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0060.html#publisher-publish-autocreate
  216. MattJ That's the feature
  217. MattJ https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0163.html#publish - that's where it's required for PEP
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  457. Zash Hm, https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc5802#section-6.1 is weird with tls-unique being obsolete-ish
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  475. moparisthebest > Servers MUST implement the "tls-unique" [RFC5929] channel binding type, if they implement any channel binding. that's weird wording in general
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  486. Guus I might have asked this before, but are there any re-usable BOSH-related load test implementations available anywhere?
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  497. Sam Guus: I'm not sure if they were ever open sourced or still exist, but HipChat had some. You might try digging around in Atlassians old archived repos on GitHub.
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  507. moparisthebest are there non-BOSH-related load test implementations?
  508. Kev Multiple, but it depends what it is you want to load test.
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  511. Guus I only want to do some smoke-testing, with a little bit more than one client.
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  515. Guus Sam, any suggestions for https://github.com/orgs/atlassian/repositories?q=&type=all&language=&sort= ?
  516. Guus none of these give relevant results: bosh bind load xmpp jabber
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  520. Sam I dunno, I don't even remember what they were written in, sorry. Probably didn't end up open sourced.
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  523. Guus np, thanks
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  528. moparisthebest what I was getting at is if there are non-BOSH load testers, and you could find an xmpp->bosh proxy, you could run them through that
  529. moparisthebest I know the opposite direction exists but unsure about that direction
  530. MattJ Guus, Tsung used to be a popular choice
  531. Guus MattJ, does that do BOSH?
  532. MattJ It does HTTP and it does XMPP, I can't remember if it does BOSH specifically
  533. Guus stackoverflow says yes
  534. Guus I hadn't considered. THanks
  535. MattJ iirc it's extensible (but that may require erlang coding)
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  538. moparisthebest hey says right here it supports BOSH http://tsung.erlang-projects.org/1/01/about/#xmpp-jabber
  539. moparisthebest and websockets, this might be fun to compare connection methods with
  540. Guus I obviously first looked at StackOverflow before the author's site.
  541. moparisthebest of course
  542. Guus there's bound to be a docker image for this...
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  571. arc Will there be a board meeting today?
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  573. Holger BTW https://github.com/processone/rtb is kind of a successor to Tsung, it tries harder to produce 'realistic' workloads, but it doesn't do BOSH/WebSocket.
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  580. arc Is anyone else here for it?
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  597. arc 🙁 doesn't look like it
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  599. moparisthebest why don't you ping them ?
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  602. arc Ralphm: here?
  603. moparisthebest it's ralphm , some clients are picky with caps, some not
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  605. Zash MattJ?
  606. arc At this point it doesn't look like it. I need to get to work
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  610. Zash If the chair doesn't show up for 15 minutes you're legally allowed to go to work
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  616. arc Chair hasn't been to a meeting in more than a month. I'm already walking to work
  617. MattJ arc, I think we're all agreed about giving up on weekly meetings? (per email discussion)
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  619. arc There needs to be a proposal and a vote
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  621. Zash And minutes!
  622. arc And to go with that the calendar event needs to be removed
  623. arc Exactly. We are an American 501c3 with an international board. There are rules and auditing.
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  625. arc Peter could go into more detail, but if the IRS investigates we need to have all our i's dotted and t's crossed. Until a official decision we still have weekly meetings every Thursday
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  628. arc Of course there's no legal requirement for weekly meetings. We could have annual meetings, even.
  629. Zash As a Swede, I often wonder where all the real meeting bureaucracy is hiding. Where are the two meeting minutes checkers who double check and attest to the meeting minutes?!
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  631. arc That is a problem yes
  632. arc But biggest, we as a board representing body corporate decided on weekly meetings. To change that we need an official decision under the current parameters.
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  634. arc One of the things to discuss is that this change would move from every meeting being open and public, to every "meeting" being private behind closed doors, because the board list is only for board members.
  635. MattJ Everyone on board has now agreed to my proposal to switch to email to conduct business
  636. MattJ Except you, I think?
  637. MattJ If you have concerns, share them
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  639. MattJ Probably via email is best :)
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  641. MattJ I'm also open to hearing other proposals
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  643. MattJ The only alternatives I see are 1) continue to fail to conduct any business because meetings don't happen, 2) dissolve the XSF
  644. MattJ Most organizations do not have weekly board meetings, I personally think that is a little excessive anyway
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  646. MattJ What matters is whether we can get stuff done, not how many meetings we have. We can just as easily meet our obligations to the organization without using XMPP to conduct our discussions.
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  648. MattJ I do agree about taking stuff private though - the vast majority of what we discuss can and should be public. We've agreed in the past that members@ would be a suitable venue.
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  651. MattJ We might want to revisit that, e.g. a public read-only list (for non-board) that's separate
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  657. singpolyma Just have a board@ muc that is only for business where only board gets voice. Open the meeting on the first, close on the 29th and snapshot log as minutes. Monthly meeting a month long!
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  659. Guus I was just going to suggest that.
  660. Zash That has existed forever but I'm not sure anything has ever been said there
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  662. Guus I by no means think that this is a better idea - but it might be middle ground between 'live chat' and 'email'.
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  664. MattJ I don't want to speak for anyone else, but if the issue is scheduling time, email is nice because it acts as a to-do... I can organize threads, flag them, mark them as unread, etc. if I know they require some action from me. I feel like I could easily lose chat messages (I mean, it happens to me all the time)
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  672. Guus perfectly reasonable
  673. Guus In unrelated news: Bosh with Tsung works.
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  675. Guus thanks for that.
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  677. MattJ Yay
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  688. Kev FWIW, as a person who complains when Board stuff happens in private, either of the above proposals (board@ MUC or a public board@ mailing list where most stuff happens) would keep me happy.
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  691. pep. If I were a member I would also very much complain if stuff went even more private, as I did in the past already
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  694. Kev I don't think anyone's suggesting making things more private - I was just pre-emptively *not* complaining about either of the suggestions :)
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  697. moparisthebest I like the board@ muc better than email for dogfooding reasons but as long as you don't take it to discord or something I won't complain :D
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  702. Zash We just need a XEP to solve the timezone issue
  703. Kev As an uninformed outsider, I don't think timezones are the issue with Board meeting at the moment.
  704. moparisthebest A muc handles messages from different timezones just as well as email
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  706. Ellenor Malik we need a xep for mail over xmpp
  707. Ellenor Malik (not kidding)
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  709. pep. I guess with emails at least there is some kind of rich markup (/s)
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  719. moparisthebest no there isn't, only sickos write HTML emails
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  724. pep. There's no standard whatsoever, not everyone accepts the same subset, but at least there's a wire format that isn't dependent on the input format :)
  725. singpolyma Ellenor Malik: what do you think we are currently lacking to get this use case?
  726. Ellenor Malik really nothing, actually
  727. Ellenor Malik > I wrote: > (not kidding) This was a lie.
  728. singpolyma 😂
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  731. singpolyma Certainly there's no client focussed on this use case. I think you need the old archiving xep to get good "mail folders" stuff also, at least if you want IMAP like sync. Of course nothing stops us from just using IMAP for that ;)
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  751. Sam IIRC the IRS does require regular public board meetings (but not weekly). I think it's at least quarterly, but don't hold me to that number.
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