XSF Discussion - 2022-06-23

00:01:55 good-natured old robot has left
00:01:57 good-natured old robot has joined
00:06:24 pablo has left
00:07:27 millesimus has left
00:08:51 good-natured old robot has left
00:09:02 millesimus has joined
00:10:03 emus has left
00:16:40 Maranda[x] has left
00:19:55 pablo has joined
00:23:34 Half-Shot has left
00:23:34 homebeach has left
00:23:34 Matthew has left
00:23:34 uhoreg has left
00:23:35 Half-Shot has joined
00:23:36 Matthew has joined
00:23:36 homebeach has joined
00:23:36 uhoreg has joined
00:24:38 gooya has left
00:24:40 djorz has left
00:25:15 pablo has left
00:34:52 Kev has joined
00:35:15 floretta has left
00:35:16 floretta has joined
00:41:59 Vaulor has left
00:44:54 good-natured old robot has joined
00:45:02 marc0s has left
00:45:05 marc0s has joined
00:51:03 Kev has left
00:58:50 pablo has joined
00:59:46 andrey.g has left
01:03:16 jgart has joined
01:06:51 millesimus has left
01:09:47 Seve has left
01:09:54 Tobias has joined
01:10:31 xnamed has joined
01:14:00 pablo has left
01:18:28 millesimus has joined
01:20:25 good-natured old robot has left
01:20:26 good-natured old robot has joined
01:27:06 Tobias has left
01:28:49 Kev has joined
01:33:36 adiaholic has joined
01:45:28 Kev has left
01:54:53 Calvin has joined
02:00:34 pablo has joined
02:04:57 Calvin has left
02:10:41 Steve Kille has left
02:10:51 Steve Kille has joined
02:19:56 xnamed has left
02:23:01 Kev has joined
02:26:30 Sam has left
02:27:11 Sam has joined
02:29:24 Maranda[x] has joined
02:30:54 floretta has left
02:33:35 floretta has joined
02:39:48 Kev has left
02:44:59 Ingolf has joined
02:57:42 wladmis has left
02:59:03 wladmis has joined
03:10:50 Tobias has joined
03:16:56 Kev has joined
03:17:01 Kev has left
03:17:54 lovetox has left
03:22:29 good-natured old robot has left
03:22:41 good-natured old robot has joined
03:25:32 pablo has left
03:27:54 Tobias has left
03:32:21 anamulhaque has joined
03:39:43 harry837374884 has left
03:45:59 harry837374884 has joined
03:46:45 anamulhaque has left
03:46:51 anamulhaque has joined
03:57:05 wladmis has left
04:01:55 floretta has left
04:02:01 anamulhaque has left
04:02:03 anamulhaque has joined
04:04:01 floretta has joined
04:06:17 rebeld22 has left
04:06:55 Tobias has joined
04:11:05 Kev has joined
04:13:37 Seve has joined
04:20:12 anamulhaque has left
04:23:18 karoshi has joined
04:27:52 Kev has left
04:34:36 Vaulor has joined
04:44:48 good-natured old robot has left
04:46:55 good-natured old robot has joined
04:47:48 xnamed has joined
04:52:34 adiaholic has left
04:54:35 adiaholic has joined
05:00:44 good-natured old robot has left
05:00:45 good-natured old robot has joined
05:02:10 adiaholic has left
05:02:12 floretta has left
05:02:13 floretta has joined
05:03:25 xnamed has left
05:05:12 Kev has joined
05:05:29 emus has joined
05:09:21 adiaholic has joined
05:10:15 harry837374884 has left
05:11:02 Menel has joined
05:11:08 anamulhaque has joined
05:11:24 xnamed has joined
05:17:02 msavoritias has joined
05:21:58 Kev has left
05:23:08 good-natured old robot has left
05:23:09 good-natured old robot has joined
05:24:15 good-natured old robot has left
05:24:17 good-natured old robot has joined
05:25:03 marc0s has left
05:25:06 marc0s has joined
05:29:31 goffi has joined
05:29:55 good-natured old robot has left
05:31:24 marc0s has left
05:31:26 marc0s has joined
05:31:38 wurstsalat has joined
05:34:09 anamulhaque has left
05:36:00 anamulhaque has joined
05:39:10 lovetox has joined
05:44:13 chipmnk has joined
05:45:12 Paganini has left
05:50:53 marc0s has left
05:50:56 marc0s has joined
05:52:05 Apollo has left
05:56:57 good-natured old robot has joined
06:00:11 Kev has joined
06:02:06 jgart has left
06:03:25 coleman has left
06:03:28 coleman has joined
06:04:26 Apollo has joined
06:05:24 anamulhaque has left
06:05:33 anamulhaque has joined
06:08:56 atomicwatch has joined
06:09:37 moparisthebest has left
06:10:07 moparisthebest has joined
06:12:53 Titi has joined
06:14:57 atomicwatch has left
06:16:00 Kev has left
06:16:49 Sam has left
06:17:38 Half-Shot has left
06:17:38 homebeach has left
06:17:38 Matthew has left
06:17:38 uhoreg has left
06:17:39 Half-Shot has joined
06:17:39 Matthew has joined
06:17:39 homebeach has joined
06:17:39 uhoreg has joined
06:25:30 Sam has joined
06:26:06 atomicwatch has joined
06:31:16 lskdjf has joined
06:31:58 Kev has joined
06:32:22 neshtaxmpp has left
06:33:29 floretta has left
06:35:44 Alex has joined
06:38:46 Sam has left
06:39:18 Maranda[x] has left
06:40:00 Maranda[x] has joined
06:40:40 good-natured old robot has left
06:40:41 good-natured old robot has joined
06:40:45 Sam has joined
06:42:42 floretta has joined
06:45:41 anamulhaque has left
06:46:27 Sam has left
06:48:03 Kev has left
06:49:14 Sam has joined
06:52:04 marc0s has left
06:54:55 marc0s has joined
06:55:09 Sam has left
06:55:32 anamulhaque has joined
06:56:52 anamulhaque has left
06:57:02 anamulhaque has joined
07:02:38 xnamed has left
07:02:44 xnamed has joined
07:09:14 Sam has joined
07:11:33 SteveF has joined
07:12:33 Ingolf has left
07:12:54 anamulhaque has left
07:12:58 anamulhaque has joined
07:13:18 good-natured old robot has left
07:13:38 good-natured old robot has joined
07:13:44 emus has left
07:14:43 Sam has left
07:17:37 Titi has left
07:18:34 chipmnk has left
07:18:43 chipmnk has joined
07:20:21 good-natured old robot has left
07:20:27 good-natured old robot has joined
07:25:40 good-natured old robot has left
07:26:01 Kev has joined
07:27:36 anamulhaque has left
07:27:38 anamulhaque has joined
07:28:50 marc0s has left
07:28:52 marc0s has joined
07:29:12 Sam has joined
07:36:53 Ingolf has joined
07:38:56 adiaholic has left
07:40:44 good-natured old robot has joined
07:41:58 adiaholic has joined
07:42:24 Kev has left
07:43:47 Titi has joined
07:43:54 neshtaxmpp has joined
07:44:06 emus has joined
07:45:14 anamulhaque has left
07:45:16 anamulhaque has joined
07:46:11 marc0s has left
07:46:13 marc0s has joined
07:48:43 Tim R has joined
07:58:29 Tobias when a client publishes something to a pubsub node, is the node automatically created if it does not exist?
07:58:37 anamulhaque has left
07:58:45 anamulhaque has joined
07:59:09 harry837374884 has joined
07:59:12 good-natured old robot has left
08:01:45 MattJ Maybe
08:02:09 MattJ It's an optional feature, but it's required for PEP
08:02:35 MattJ https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0060.html#publisher-publish-autocreate
08:02:50 MattJ That's the feature
08:03:04 MattJ https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0163.html#publish - that's where it's required for PEP
08:03:18 good-natured old robot has joined
08:04:29 konstantinos has left
08:05:56 Kev has joined
08:07:56 pasdesushi has joined
08:10:14 adiaholic has left
08:11:40 konstantinos has joined
08:13:56 anamulhaque has left
08:14:06 anamulhaque has joined
08:14:08 adiaholic has joined
08:15:36 good-natured old robot has left
08:15:42 good-natured old robot has joined
08:21:50 adiaholic has left
08:24:09 Tobias ta
08:25:50 good-natured old robot has left
08:28:59 anamulhaque has left
08:29:15 anamulhaque has joined
08:30:09 konstantinos has left
08:32:37 adiaholic has joined
08:39:34 konstantinos has joined
08:40:31 Half-Shot has left
08:40:31 homebeach has left
08:40:31 Matthew has left
08:40:31 uhoreg has left
08:40:32 Half-Shot has joined
08:40:32 Matthew has joined
08:40:32 homebeach has joined
08:40:32 uhoreg has joined
08:40:35 good-natured old robot has joined
08:41:26 adiaholic has left
08:43:51 Vidak has left
08:44:18 Vidak has joined
08:47:51 anamulhaque has left
08:48:02 anamulhaque has joined
08:48:58 Sam has left
08:53:20 Sam has joined
08:53:52 konstantinos has left
08:54:48 Dele Olajide has joined
08:56:05 adiaholic has joined
08:56:13 konstantinos has joined
08:59:02 Sam has left
09:01:22 marc0s has left
09:01:24 marc0s has joined
09:02:17 eevvoor has joined
09:02:54 anamulhaque has left
09:03:10 anamulhaque has joined
09:04:48 adiaholic has left
09:08:50 Ingolf has left
09:09:43 good-natured old robot has left
09:09:44 good-natured old robot has joined
09:11:30 Andrzej has joined
09:13:14 good-natured old robot has left
09:13:15 good-natured old robot has joined
09:13:31 Sam has joined
09:14:02 adiaholic has joined
09:14:25 jinxd has joined
09:19:58 djorz has joined
09:20:12 anamulhaque has left
09:21:01 anamulhaque has joined
09:24:39 good-natured old robot has left
09:34:28 marc0s has left
09:34:30 marc0s has joined
09:35:22 neshtaxmpp has left
09:35:55 neshtaxmpp has joined
09:40:18 anamulhaque has left
09:41:10 Apollo has left
09:43:15 Vidak has left
09:44:30 Vidak has joined
09:55:36 djorz has left
09:59:14 Ingolf has joined
09:59:44 konstantinos has left
10:00:40 adiaholic has left
10:04:18 adiaholic has joined
10:05:05 Andrzej has left
10:10:06 Andrzej has joined
10:16:39 Wojtek has joined
10:16:43 good-natured old robot has joined
10:21:39 Vidak has left
10:22:05 Vidak has joined
10:24:24 neshtaxmpp has left
10:24:25 neshtaxmpp has joined
10:24:36 Sam has left
10:26:16 konstantinos has joined
10:29:23 Sam has joined
10:31:03 papatutuwawa has joined
10:31:36 adiaholic has left
10:33:24 marc0s has left
10:33:27 marc0s has joined
10:33:28 adiaholic has joined
10:34:53 Sam has left
10:35:51 marc0s has left
10:35:53 marc0s has joined
10:39:41 gooya has joined
10:40:35 Sam has joined
10:43:20 neshtaxmpp has left
10:43:21 neshtaxmpp has joined
10:47:20 SteveF has left
10:47:29 SteveF has joined
10:47:33 Ingolf has left
10:48:01 djorz has joined
10:52:32 good-natured old robot has left
10:55:16 clouded has left
10:55:19 clouded has joined
10:56:05 anamulhaque has joined
10:56:23 xnamed has left
10:56:56 Apollo has joined
10:59:54 adiaholic has left
11:00:17 xnamed has joined
11:02:02 adiaholic has joined
11:03:50 anamulhaque has left
11:04:26 djorz has left
11:04:57 Daniel has left
11:05:52 djorz has joined
11:05:54 Daniel has joined
11:09:28 wladmis has joined
11:10:33 adiaholic has left
11:16:09 adiaholic has joined
11:16:46 good-natured old robot has joined
11:17:20 good-natured old robot has left
11:17:21 good-natured old robot has joined
11:23:07 good-natured old robot has left
11:25:31 good-natured old robot has joined
11:26:09 Wojtek has left
11:26:34 djorz has left
11:29:57 neshtaxmpp has left
11:29:57 neshtaxmpp has joined
11:30:55 marc0s has left
11:30:57 marc0s has joined
11:31:01 good-natured old robot has left
11:31:03 good-natured old robot has joined
11:31:42 marc0s has left
11:31:45 marc0s has joined
11:34:02 marc0s has left
11:34:05 marc0s has joined
11:35:20 Mx2 has joined
11:36:42 good-natured old robot has left
11:37:33 chipmnk has left
11:37:42 chipmnk has joined
11:38:02 chipmnk has left
11:38:17 chipmnk has joined
11:44:17 neshtaxmpp has left
11:44:17 neshtaxmpp has joined
11:45:15 APach has left
11:53:08 eevvoor has left
11:56:16 Wojtek has joined
11:58:25 emus has left
12:08:49 adiaholic has left
12:09:05 adiaholic has joined
12:09:37 anamulhaque has joined
12:13:24 neshtaxmpp has left
12:13:25 neshtaxmpp has joined
12:16:20 singpolyma has left
12:16:33 adiaholic has left
12:16:43 adiaholic has joined
12:16:45 good-natured old robot has joined
12:18:38 djorz has joined
12:21:43 gooya has left
12:21:51 gooya has joined
12:26:48 eevvoor has joined
12:27:32 singpolyma has joined
12:28:34 djorz has left
12:31:41 emus has joined
12:31:58 neshtaxmpp has left
12:33:26 marc0s has left
12:33:29 marc0s has joined
12:36:13 neshtaxmpp has joined
12:36:25 anamulhaque has left
12:41:33 singpolyma has left
12:49:28 good-natured old robot has left
12:56:35 pablo has joined
12:56:56 singpolyma has joined
12:58:51 Dele Olajide has left
13:03:36 pablo has left
13:03:43 eu has left
13:03:50 singpolyma has left
13:04:09 anamulhaque has joined
13:04:27 singpolyma has joined
13:04:48 djorz has joined
13:07:34 marc0s has left
13:07:37 marc0s has joined
13:10:42 marc0s has left
13:10:45 marc0s has joined
13:11:51 eevvoor has left
13:12:18 marc0s has left
13:12:21 marc0s has joined
13:12:43 Mikaela has left
13:12:55 Mikaela has joined
13:13:38 papatutuwawa has left
13:14:35 Vidak has left
13:16:32 Vidak has joined
13:16:49 good-natured old robot has joined
13:18:42 djorz has left
13:24:52 anamulhaque has left
13:25:26 Andrzej has left
13:27:05 good-natured old robot has left
13:27:15 eu has joined
13:27:26 singpolyma has left
13:29:11 jinxd has left
13:31:06 singpolyma has joined
13:31:07 Vidak has left
13:31:44 jinxd has joined
13:33:12 djorz has joined
13:34:18 eevvoor has joined
13:34:30 Vidak has joined
13:36:51 Mx2 has left
13:41:27 rq77 has joined
13:41:54 Vidak has left
13:44:27 Vidak has joined
13:48:17 eu has left
13:48:41 Ray22 has joined
13:49:50 Sam has left
13:51:21 Vidak has left
13:52:11 Sam has joined
13:53:05 Ray22 has left
13:53:05 Dele Olajide has joined
13:53:25 singpolyma has left
13:53:57 singpolyma has joined
13:54:30 Vidak has joined
13:55:27 harry837374884 has left
13:57:46 adiaholic has left
14:00:29 eu has joined
14:00:42 harry837374884 has joined
14:00:51 adiaholic has joined
14:04:05 Vidak has left
14:04:33 Vidak has joined
14:04:59 Andrzej has joined
14:06:21 adiaholic has left
14:07:08 Paganini has joined
14:07:24 rebeld22 has joined
14:12:10 Vidak has left
14:14:14 adiaholic has joined
14:14:28 Vidak has joined
14:20:24 Sam has left
14:22:33 Apollo has left
14:24:42 Sam has joined
14:25:33 adiaholic has left
14:25:34 Apollo has joined
14:28:02 xnamed has left
14:28:38 Vidak has left
14:28:43 good-natured old robot has joined
14:28:54 Zash Hm, https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc5802#section-6.1 is weird with tls-unique being obsolete-ish
14:29:37 Vidak has joined
14:31:05 marc0s has left
14:31:07 marc0s has joined
14:32:28 adiaholic has joined
14:32:38 marc0s has left
14:32:41 marc0s has joined
14:36:28 Vidak has left
14:37:29 adiaholic has left
14:38:31 Ingolf has joined
14:38:47 papatutuwawa has joined
14:39:41 Vidak has joined
14:40:23 marc0s has left
14:40:26 marc0s has joined
14:41:16 marc0s has left
14:41:19 marc0s has joined
14:41:47 marc0s has left
14:41:49 marc0s has joined
14:43:25 moparisthebest > Servers MUST implement the "tls-unique" [RFC5929] channel binding type, if they implement any channel binding. that's weird wording in general
14:45:42 chipmnk has left
14:45:52 chipmnk has joined
14:46:25 Vidak has left
14:47:20 marc0s has left
14:47:24 marc0s has joined
14:47:49 marc0s has left
14:47:52 marc0s has joined
14:49:15 singpolyma has left
14:49:25 konstantinos has left
14:50:26 singpolyma has joined
14:51:11 Guus I might have asked this before, but are there any re-usable BOSH-related load test implementations available anywhere?
14:55:02 antranigv has left
14:55:28 gooya has left
14:55:33 gooya has joined
14:56:12 arc has left
14:56:32 marc0s has left
14:57:11 andrey.g has joined
14:57:12 Alex has left
14:57:20 marc0s has joined
14:57:33 marc0s has left
14:57:35 marc0s has joined
14:57:36 Sam Guus: I'm not sure if they were ever open sourced or still exist, but HipChat had some. You might try digging around in Atlassians old archived repos on GitHub.
14:58:03 jinxd has left
14:58:18 singpolyma has left
14:58:26 marc0s has left
14:58:28 marc0s has joined
14:59:16 singpolyma has joined
14:59:36 marc0s has left
14:59:39 marc0s has joined
14:59:44 Vidak has joined
15:01:47 eevvoor has left
15:02:29 moparisthebest are there non-BOSH-related load test implementations?
15:02:59 Kev Multiple, but it depends what it is you want to load test.
15:03:36 arc has joined
15:05:30 mimi89999 has left
15:05:33 Guus I only want to do some smoke-testing, with a little bit more than one client.
15:05:50 atomicwatch has left
15:06:29 floretta has left
15:06:30 floretta has joined
15:06:31 Guus Sam, any suggestions for https://github.com/orgs/atlassian/repositories?q=&type=all&language=&sort= ?
15:07:05 Guus none of these give relevant results: bosh bind load xmpp jabber
15:07:11 debacle has joined
15:07:32 mimi89999 has joined
15:07:52 mimi89999 has left
15:08:34 Sam I dunno, I don't even remember what they were written in, sorry. Probably didn't end up open sourced.
15:08:43 djorz has left
15:09:00 mimi89999 has joined
15:09:00 Guus np, thanks
15:09:02 rq77 has left
15:09:20 mimi89999 has left
15:12:00 mimi89999 has joined
15:13:55 xnamed has joined
15:14:41 moparisthebest what I was getting at is if there are non-BOSH load testers, and you could find an xmpp->bosh proxy, you could run them through that
15:14:53 moparisthebest I know the opposite direction exists but unsure about that direction
15:14:54 MattJ Guus, Tsung used to be a popular choice
15:15:23 Guus MattJ, does that do BOSH?
15:15:47 MattJ It does HTTP and it does XMPP, I can't remember if it does BOSH specifically
15:15:59 Guus stackoverflow says yes
15:16:04 Guus I hadn't considered. THanks
15:16:05 MattJ iirc it's extensible (but that may require erlang coding)
15:18:39 Vidak has left
15:19:29 Vidak has joined
15:19:46 moparisthebest hey says right here it supports BOSH http://tsung.erlang-projects.org/1/01/about/#xmpp-jabber
15:20:11 moparisthebest and websockets, this might be fun to compare connection methods with
15:20:14 Guus I obviously first looked at StackOverflow before the author's site.
15:20:29 moparisthebest of course
15:20:45 Guus there's bound to be a docker image for this...
15:21:32 Sam has left
15:22:20 karoshi has left
15:22:38 Ingolf has left
15:23:28 gooya has left
15:23:38 gooya has joined
15:26:21 Sam has joined
15:26:54 debacle has left
15:27:42 xnamed has left
15:28:21 singpolyma has left
15:30:33 debacle has joined
15:30:40 marc0s has left
15:30:41 marc0s has joined
15:31:28 singpolyma has joined
15:32:13 emus has left
15:32:24 adiaholic has joined
15:33:02 Paganini has left
15:35:05 intosi has left
15:35:48 atomicwatch has joined
15:36:06 Vidak has left
15:36:08 konstantinos has joined
15:37:24 adiaholic has left
15:38:57 intosi has joined
15:39:17 rebeld22 has left
15:39:31 Vidak has joined
15:41:11 marc0s has left
15:41:14 marc0s has joined
15:43:56 Andrzej has left
15:44:17 Sam has left
15:45:59 arc Will there be a board meeting today?
15:46:17 Sam has joined
15:46:30 Holger BTW https://github.com/processone/rtb is kind of a successor to Tsung, it tries harder to produce 'realistic' workloads, but it doesn't do BOSH/WebSocket.
15:46:39 adiaholic has joined
15:46:43 Vidak has left
15:47:05 singpolyma has left
15:47:16 singpolyma has joined
15:47:44 marc0s has left
15:48:00 marc0s has joined
15:49:18 arc Is anyone else here for it?
15:50:08 Vidak has joined
15:50:09 Tobias has left
15:50:18 Tobias has joined
15:52:41 rebeld22 has joined
15:52:42 Paganini has joined
15:53:41 Tobias has left
15:53:51 Tobias has joined
15:57:53 Alex has joined
15:58:08 Ingolf has joined
15:59:13 chipmnk has left
15:59:21 xnamed has joined
15:59:22 chipmnk has joined
15:59:30 Patiga has left
16:01:02 neshtaxmpp has left
16:01:02 neshtaxmpp has joined
16:01:06 debacle has left
16:01:51 arc 🙁 doesn't look like it
16:02:08 Andrzej has joined
16:02:15 moparisthebest why don't you ping them ?
16:02:25 gooya has left
16:02:30 gooya has joined
16:04:17 arc Ralphm: here?
16:05:26 moparisthebest it's ralphm , some clients are picky with caps, some not
16:05:54 anamulhaque has joined
16:05:56 Zash MattJ?
16:06:02 arc At this point it doesn't look like it. I need to get to work
16:06:06 Vidak has left
16:07:21 junaid has left
16:07:26 djorz has joined
16:07:58 Zash If the chair doesn't show up for 15 minutes you're legally allowed to go to work
16:08:16 xnamed has left
16:09:33 Vidak has joined
16:10:14 emus has joined
16:12:00 Tim R has left
16:13:10 anamulhaque has left
16:13:33 arc Chair hasn't been to a meeting in more than a month. I'm already walking to work
16:14:19 MattJ arc, I think we're all agreed about giving up on weekly meetings? (per email discussion)
16:19:03 Vidak has left
16:19:13 arc There needs to be a proposal and a vote
16:19:27 Vidak has joined
16:19:39 Zash And minutes!
16:19:42 arc And to go with that the calendar event needs to be removed
16:20:44 arc Exactly. We are an American 501c3 with an international board. There are rules and auditing.
16:23:48 antranigv has joined
16:24:18 arc Peter could go into more detail, but if the IRS investigates we need to have all our i's dotted and t's crossed. Until a official decision we still have weekly meetings every Thursday
16:25:26 antranigv has left
16:25:27 antranigv has joined
16:26:15 arc Of course there's no legal requirement for weekly meetings. We could have annual meetings, even.
16:26:40 Zash As a Swede, I often wonder where all the real meeting bureaucracy is hiding. Where are the two meeting minutes checkers who double check and attest to the meeting minutes?!
16:26:44 Vidak has left
16:26:55 arc That is a problem yes
16:27:55 arc But biggest, we as a board representing body corporate decided on weekly meetings. To change that we need an official decision under the current parameters.
16:28:03 adiaholic has left
16:30:03 arc One of the things to discuss is that this change would move from every meeting being open and public, to every "meeting" being private behind closed doors, because the board list is only for board members.
16:30:09 MattJ Everyone on board has now agreed to my proposal to switch to email to conduct business
16:30:27 MattJ Except you, I think?
16:30:38 MattJ If you have concerns, share them
16:30:41 adiaholic has joined
16:30:51 MattJ Probably via email is best :)
16:31:05 xnamed has joined
16:31:29 MattJ I'm also open to hearing other proposals
16:33:04 Dele Olajide has left
16:33:13 MattJ The only alternatives I see are 1) continue to fail to conduct any business because meetings don't happen, 2) dissolve the XSF
16:33:52 MattJ Most organizations do not have weekly board meetings, I personally think that is a little excessive anyway
16:35:23 Ingolf has left
16:35:59 MattJ What matters is whether we can get stuff done, not how many meetings we have. We can just as easily meet our obligations to the organization without using XMPP to conduct our discussions.
16:36:28 pablo has joined
16:36:32 MattJ I do agree about taking stuff private though - the vast majority of what we discuss can and should be public. We've agreed in the past that members@ would be a suitable venue.
16:36:35 debacle has joined
16:36:36 adiaholic has left
16:37:01 MattJ We might want to revisit that, e.g. a public read-only list (for non-board) that's separate
16:38:05 Maranda[x] has left
16:39:39 Vidak has joined
16:40:55 xnamed has left
16:43:36 neshtaxmpp has left
16:43:37 neshtaxmpp has joined
16:44:50 singpolyma Just have a board@ muc that is only for business where only board gets voice. Open the meeting on the first, close on the 29th and snapshot log as minutes. Monthly meeting a month long!
16:44:57 Steve Kille has left
16:45:13 Guus I was just going to suggest that.
16:45:13 Zash That has existed forever but I'm not sure anything has ever been said there
16:45:27 Steve Kille has joined
16:45:42 Guus I by no means think that this is a better idea - but it might be middle ground between 'live chat' and 'email'.
16:47:37 Tim R has joined
16:48:48 MattJ I don't want to speak for anyone else, but if the issue is scheduling time, email is nice because it acts as a to-do... I can organize threads, flag them, mark them as unread, etc. if I know they require some action from me. I feel like I could easily lose chat messages (I mean, it happens to me all the time)
16:50:21 xnamed has joined
16:51:13 Vidak has left
16:51:26 djorz has left
16:51:40 Apollo has left
16:54:33 Vidak has joined
16:55:27 Wojtek has left
16:56:02 Wojtek has joined
16:58:20 Guus perfectly reasonable
16:58:35 Guus In unrelated news: Bosh with Tsung works.
16:58:37 adiaholic has joined
16:58:46 Guus thanks for that.
16:58:59 Apollo has joined
16:59:54 MattJ Yay
17:00:18 Dele Olajide has joined
17:01:24 Vidak has left
17:03:50 larma has left
17:04:28 Vidak has joined
17:05:00 larma has joined
17:05:08 singpolyma has left
17:05:16 singpolyma has joined
17:06:42 anamulhaque has joined
17:06:48 Tim R has left
17:06:53 Tim R has joined
17:07:07 Kev FWIW, as a person who complains when Board stuff happens in private, either of the above proposals (board@ MUC or a public board@ mailing list where most stuff happens) would keep me happy.
17:07:55 Fishbowler has left
17:07:57 Fishbowler has joined
17:07:58 pep. If I were a member I would also very much complain if stuff went even more private, as I did in the past already
17:09:25 Tobias has left
17:09:36 Tobias has joined
17:11:05 Kev I don't think anyone's suggesting making things more private - I was just pre-emptively *not* complaining about either of the suggestions :)
17:11:51 Vidak has left
17:12:56 Titi has left
17:13:04 moparisthebest I like the board@ muc better than email for dogfooding reasons but as long as you don't take it to discord or something I won't complain :D
17:13:07 arcxi has left
17:13:09 Vidak has joined
17:13:27 anamulhaque has left
17:13:29 konstantinos has left
17:14:09 Zash We just need a XEP to solve the timezone issue
17:14:27 Kev As an uninformed outsider, I don't think timezones are the issue with Board meeting at the moment.
17:15:45 moparisthebest A muc handles messages from different timezones just as well as email
17:16:10 karoshi has joined
17:16:24 Ellenor Malik we need a xep for mail over xmpp
17:17:58 Ellenor Malik (not kidding)
17:18:39 konstantinos has joined
17:19:18 pep. I guess with emails at least there is some kind of rich markup (/s)
17:19:22 Tobias has left
17:19:42 Tobias has joined
17:20:02 singpolyma has left
17:21:04 marc0s has left
17:21:07 marc0s has joined
17:22:56 arcxi has joined
17:23:41 adiaholic has left
17:29:07 adiaholic has joined
17:29:22 Vidak has left
17:29:29 moparisthebest no there isn't, only sickos write HTML emails
17:29:38 Vidak has joined
17:30:03 arcxi has left
17:30:37 singpolyma has joined
17:30:47 papatutuwawa has left
17:31:32 pep. There's no standard whatsoever, not everyone accepts the same subset, but at least there's a wire format that isn't dependent on the input format :)
17:32:13 singpolyma Ellenor Malik: what do you think we are currently lacking to get this use case?
17:32:33 Ellenor Malik really nothing, actually
17:32:50 Ellenor Malik > I wrote: > (not kidding) This was a lie.
17:33:10 singpolyma 😂
17:33:11 djorz has joined
17:33:13 arcxi has joined
17:34:13 singpolyma Certainly there's no client focussed on this use case. I think you need the old archiving xep to get good "mail folders" stuff also, at least if you want IMAP like sync. Of course nothing stops us from just using IMAP for that ;)
17:34:14 adiaholic has left
17:37:46 singpolyma has left
17:38:00 singpolyma has joined
17:39:43 good-natured old robot has left
17:42:10 rq77 has joined
17:43:18 karoshi has left
17:44:06 Vidak has left
17:45:18 Wojtek has left
17:46:12 Vidak has joined
17:46:12 karoshi has joined
17:46:39 adiaholic has joined
17:48:31 Ray22 has joined
17:52:46 Fishbowler has left
17:52:48 Fishbowler has joined
17:53:46 adiaholic has left
17:54:46 wladmis has left
17:54:49 wladmis has joined
17:55:18 wladmis has left
17:55:28 wladmis has joined
17:55:43 Sam IIRC the IRS does require regular public board meetings (but not weekly). I think it's at least quarterly, but don't hold me to that number.
17:55:49 pasdesushi has left
17:56:05 Titi has joined
17:56:52 Dele Olajide has left
17:57:05 Dele Olajide has joined
17:58:30 chipmnk has left
17:58:38 chipmnk has joined
17:58:43 andrey.g has left
18:01:43 konstantinos has left
18:03:14 pasdesushi has joined
18:03:43 stp has left
18:04:06 good-natured old robot has joined
18:08:55 adiaholic has joined
18:10:43 konstantinos has joined
18:12:52 emus has left
18:13:39 neshtaxmpp has left
18:13:40 neshtaxmpp has joined
18:17:06 adiaholic has left
18:17:22 floretta has left
18:17:23 floretta has joined
18:19:04 singpolyma has left
18:19:14 singpolyma has joined
18:20:36 konstantinos has left
18:20:48 Apollo has left
18:25:40 Titi has left
18:26:44 bean has joined
18:28:38 bean has left
18:28:41 bean has joined
18:29:43 bean has left
18:29:53 jinxd has joined
18:30:29 jinxd has left
18:33:33 konstantinos has joined
18:34:38 Dele Olajide has left
18:34:52 papatutuwawa has joined
18:35:38 Tim R has left
18:38:48 neshtaxmpp has left
18:39:09 Tim R has joined
18:39:59 coleman has left
18:41:46 Apollo has joined
18:42:58 neshtaxmpp has joined
18:45:34 Ray22 has left
18:46:04 djorz has left
18:46:33 daags has left
18:48:04 djorz has joined
18:48:16 djorz has left
18:48:24 djorz has joined
18:48:25 djorz has left
18:48:40 djorz has joined
18:48:41 djorz has left
18:48:55 djorz has joined
18:48:56 djorz has left
18:49:20 djorz has joined
18:50:12 Maranda[x] has joined
18:50:18 konstantinos has left
18:51:11 daags has joined
18:53:03 Vidak has left
18:54:26 Vidak has joined
19:00:55 Patiga has joined
19:01:08 Vidak has left
19:01:46 Vidak has joined
19:04:43 Titi has joined
19:06:40 neshtaxmpp has left
19:06:51 chipmnk has left
19:06:55 djorz has left
19:07:01 chipmnk has joined
19:10:08 emus has joined
19:10:34 xnamed has left
19:11:36 neshtaxmpp has joined
19:13:19 bean has joined
19:13:42 konstantinos has joined
19:14:25 bean has left
19:15:19 xnamed has joined
19:15:26 jinxd has joined
19:16:42 bean has joined
19:17:42 bean has left
19:18:47 adiaholic has joined
19:20:48 singpolyma has left
19:23:55 Tim R has left
19:24:39 Maranda[x] has left
19:26:43 adiaholic has left
19:28:04 singpolyma has joined
19:29:26 Tim R has joined
19:38:03 singpolyma has left
19:41:03 singpolyma has joined
19:43:07 pablo has left
19:48:27 Fishbowler has left
19:48:27 Guus has left
19:50:13 Guus has joined
19:50:13 Guus has left
19:51:06 Guus has joined
19:51:07 Fishbowler has joined
19:53:42 singpolyma has left
19:53:43 Vidak has left
19:54:02 debacle has left
19:54:31 Vidak has joined
19:54:58 singpolyma has joined
20:03:23 Vidak has left
20:04:36 Vidak has joined
20:06:34 Tim R has left
20:06:44 Andrzej has left
20:07:22 Andrzej has joined
20:10:47 Andrzej has left
20:10:52 Sam has left
20:10:53 pablo has joined
20:12:34 Sam has joined
20:13:55 coleman has joined
20:16:34 pablo has left
20:20:10 Maranda[x] has joined
20:20:49 good-natured old robot has left
20:22:00 djorz has joined
20:22:42 jinxd has left
20:23:33 atomicwatch has left
20:25:46 jinxd has joined
20:30:50 djorz has left
20:31:41 Kev has left
20:32:33 djorz has joined
20:33:27 Sam has left
20:35:21 Sam has joined
20:39:01 djorz has left
20:40:11 Kev has joined
20:41:03 massivebox has left
20:42:22 singpolyma has left
20:42:36 massivebox has joined
20:43:01 debacle has joined
20:45:49 marc0s has left
20:45:52 marc0s has joined
20:46:18 Vidak has left
20:46:27 Vidak has joined
20:46:49 marc0s has left
20:46:53 marc0s has joined
20:51:40 Ingolf has joined
20:52:13 emus has left
20:53:35 emus has joined
20:55:46 Calvin has joined
20:56:36 djorz has joined
20:57:55 singpolyma has joined
21:00:37 good-natured old robot has joined
21:01:48 Tobias has left
21:03:57 Kev has left
21:04:44 Kev has joined
21:05:18 chipmnk has left
21:05:26 chipmnk has joined
21:05:34 Kev has left
21:05:51 Calvin has left
21:07:29 Kev has joined
21:11:40 massivebox has left
21:11:58 debacle has left
21:15:51 Kev has left
21:15:58 Kev has joined
21:16:43 Kev has left
21:16:51 Kev has joined
21:17:39 Kev has left
21:17:49 Kev has joined
21:18:48 Kev has left
21:18:55 Kev has joined
21:19:17 Vidak has left
21:19:21 Kev has left
21:19:46 Kev has joined
21:19:56 Vidak has joined
21:19:57 adiaholic has joined
21:20:11 Kev has left
21:20:20 Kev has joined
21:20:45 Kev has left
21:20:53 Kev has joined
21:21:04 harry837374884 has left
21:22:12 Kev has left
21:22:56 SteveF has left
21:23:55 floretta has left
21:23:56 floretta has joined
21:26:07 adiaholic has left
21:27:03 harry837374884 has joined
21:32:46 Kev has joined
21:34:57 Titi has left
21:38:22 singpolyma has left
21:38:29 Ingolf has left
21:38:56 singpolyma has joined
21:39:53 djorz has left
21:40:09 Titi has joined
21:42:13 Menel has left
21:42:42 papatutuwawa has left
21:44:55 marc0s has left
21:45:44 marc0s has joined
21:46:35 singpolyma has left
21:46:45 singpolyma has joined
21:48:37 chipmnk has left
21:48:57 xnamed has left
21:53:22 Kev has left
21:54:07 xnamed has joined
21:55:55 djorz has joined
21:59:21 daags has left
21:59:28 Tobias has joined
22:02:48 Vidak has left
22:03:02 Calvin has joined
22:03:20 Calvin has left
22:04:09 gooya has left
22:04:14 gooya has joined
22:04:38 Vidak has joined
22:08:04 massivebox has joined
22:09:49 singpolyma has left
22:13:29 Vidak has left
22:14:37 Vidak has joined
22:15:29 msavoritias has left
22:15:43 marc0s has left
22:15:46 marc0s has joined
22:16:21 Tobias has left
22:16:42 xnamed has left
22:24:10 massivebox has left
22:24:10 Titi has left
22:25:18 singpolyma has joined
22:26:51 Kev has joined
22:26:52 xnamed has joined
22:27:07 goffi has left
22:27:31 Vidak has left
22:29:30 Vidak has joined
22:35:25 daags has joined
22:37:09 pjn has left
22:37:16 pjn has joined
22:45:18 Kev has left
22:46:12 jinxd has left
22:48:11 xnamed has left
22:48:34 wurstsalat has left
22:51:43 lskdjf has left
22:52:25 karoshi has left
22:52:27 Alastair Hogge has left
22:54:35 millesimus has left
22:54:49 emus has left
22:55:22 singpolyma has left
22:55:32 singpolyma has joined
22:57:07 pablo has joined
22:57:49 djorz has left
23:04:47 xnamed has joined
23:05:41 Alastair Hogge has joined
23:07:14 pjn has left
23:09:00 qy has left
23:09:13 qy has joined
23:10:36 qy has left
23:10:49 qy has joined
23:18:48 djorz has joined
23:20:57 Kev has joined
23:26:10 harry837374884 has left
23:27:06 harry837374884 has joined
23:27:09 pasdesushi has left
23:28:30 rq77 has left
23:29:20 xnamed has left
23:29:29 xnamed has joined
23:41:18 Kev has left
23:45:00 neshtaxmpp has left
23:45:09 neshtaxmpp has joined
23:49:03 singpolyma has left
23:50:07 neshtaxmpp has left
23:50:07 neshtaxmpp has joined
23:56:11 singpolyma has joined
23:59:15 phoebos has joined