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Tobias
when a client publishes something to a pubsub node, is the node automatically created if it does not exist?
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MattJ
Maybe
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MattJ
It's an optional feature, but it's required for PEP
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MattJ
https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0060.html#publisher-publish-autocreate
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MattJ
That's the feature
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MattJ
https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0163.html#publish - that's where it's required for PEP
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Tobias
ta
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Zash
Hm, https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc5802#section-6.1 is weird with tls-unique being obsolete-ish
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moparisthebest
> Servers MUST implement the "tls-unique" [RFC5929] channel binding type, if they implement any channel binding. that's weird wording in general
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Guus
I might have asked this before, but are there any re-usable BOSH-related load test implementations available anywhere?
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Sam
Guus: I'm not sure if they were ever open sourced or still exist, but HipChat had some. You might try digging around in Atlassians old archived repos on GitHub.
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moparisthebest
are there non-BOSH-related load test implementations?
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Kev
Multiple, but it depends what it is you want to load test.
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Guus
I only want to do some smoke-testing, with a little bit more than one client.
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Guus
Sam, any suggestions for https://github.com/orgs/atlassian/repositories?q=&type=all&language=&sort= ?
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Guus
none of these give relevant results: bosh bind load xmpp jabber
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Sam
I dunno, I don't even remember what they were written in, sorry. Probably didn't end up open sourced.
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Guus
np, thanks
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moparisthebest
what I was getting at is if there are non-BOSH load testers, and you could find an xmpp->bosh proxy, you could run them through that
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moparisthebest
I know the opposite direction exists but unsure about that direction
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MattJ
Guus, Tsung used to be a popular choice
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Guus
MattJ, does that do BOSH?
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MattJ
It does HTTP and it does XMPP, I can't remember if it does BOSH specifically
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Guus
stackoverflow says yes
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Guus
I hadn't considered. THanks
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MattJ
iirc it's extensible (but that may require erlang coding)
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moparisthebest
hey says right here it supports BOSH http://tsung.erlang-projects.org/1/01/about/#xmpp-jabber
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moparisthebest
and websockets, this might be fun to compare connection methods with
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Guus
I obviously first looked at StackOverflow before the author's site.
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moparisthebest
of course
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Guus
there's bound to be a docker image for this...
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arc
Will there be a board meeting today?
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Holger
BTW https://github.com/processone/rtb is kind of a successor to Tsung, it tries harder to produce 'realistic' workloads, but it doesn't do BOSH/WebSocket.
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arc
Is anyone else here for it?
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arc
🙁 doesn't look like it
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moparisthebest
why don't you ping them ?
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arc
Ralphm: here?
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moparisthebest
it's ralphm , some clients are picky with caps, some not
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Zash
MattJ?
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arc
At this point it doesn't look like it. I need to get to work
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Zash
If the chair doesn't show up for 15 minutes you're legally allowed to go to work
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arc
Chair hasn't been to a meeting in more than a month. I'm already walking to work
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MattJ
arc, I think we're all agreed about giving up on weekly meetings? (per email discussion)
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arc
There needs to be a proposal and a vote
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Zash
And minutes!
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arc
And to go with that the calendar event needs to be removed
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arc
Exactly. We are an American 501c3 with an international board. There are rules and auditing.
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arc
Peter could go into more detail, but if the IRS investigates we need to have all our i's dotted and t's crossed. Until a official decision we still have weekly meetings every Thursday
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arc
Of course there's no legal requirement for weekly meetings. We could have annual meetings, even.
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Zash
As a Swede, I often wonder where all the real meeting bureaucracy is hiding. Where are the two meeting minutes checkers who double check and attest to the meeting minutes?!
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arc
That is a problem yes
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arc
But biggest, we as a board representing body corporate decided on weekly meetings. To change that we need an official decision under the current parameters.
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arc
One of the things to discuss is that this change would move from every meeting being open and public, to every "meeting" being private behind closed doors, because the board list is only for board members.
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MattJ
Everyone on board has now agreed to my proposal to switch to email to conduct business
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MattJ
Except you, I think?
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MattJ
If you have concerns, share them
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MattJ
Probably via email is best :)
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MattJ
I'm also open to hearing other proposals
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MattJ
The only alternatives I see are 1) continue to fail to conduct any business because meetings don't happen, 2) dissolve the XSF
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MattJ
Most organizations do not have weekly board meetings, I personally think that is a little excessive anyway
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MattJ
What matters is whether we can get stuff done, not how many meetings we have. We can just as easily meet our obligations to the organization without using XMPP to conduct our discussions.
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MattJ
I do agree about taking stuff private though - the vast majority of what we discuss can and should be public. We've agreed in the past that members@ would be a suitable venue.
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MattJ
We might want to revisit that, e.g. a public read-only list (for non-board) that's separate
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singpolyma
Just have a board@ muc that is only for business where only board gets voice. Open the meeting on the first, close on the 29th and snapshot log as minutes. Monthly meeting a month long!
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Guus
I was just going to suggest that.
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Zash
That has existed forever but I'm not sure anything has ever been said there
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Guus
I by no means think that this is a better idea - but it might be middle ground between 'live chat' and 'email'.
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MattJ
I don't want to speak for anyone else, but if the issue is scheduling time, email is nice because it acts as a to-do... I can organize threads, flag them, mark them as unread, etc. if I know they require some action from me. I feel like I could easily lose chat messages (I mean, it happens to me all the time)
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Guus
perfectly reasonable
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Guus
In unrelated news: Bosh with Tsung works.
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Guus
thanks for that.
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MattJ
Yay
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Kev
FWIW, as a person who complains when Board stuff happens in private, either of the above proposals (board@ MUC or a public board@ mailing list where most stuff happens) would keep me happy.
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pep.
If I were a member I would also very much complain if stuff went even more private, as I did in the past already
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Kev
I don't think anyone's suggesting making things more private - I was just pre-emptively *not* complaining about either of the suggestions :)
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moparisthebest
I like the board@ muc better than email for dogfooding reasons but as long as you don't take it to discord or something I won't complain :D
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Zash
We just need a XEP to solve the timezone issue
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Kev
As an uninformed outsider, I don't think timezones are the issue with Board meeting at the moment.
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moparisthebest
A muc handles messages from different timezones just as well as email
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Ellenor Malik
we need a xep for mail over xmpp
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Ellenor Malik
(not kidding)
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pep.
I guess with emails at least there is some kind of rich markup (/s)
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moparisthebest
no there isn't, only sickos write HTML emails
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pep.
There's no standard whatsoever, not everyone accepts the same subset, but at least there's a wire format that isn't dependent on the input format :)
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singpolyma
Ellenor Malik: what do you think we are currently lacking to get this use case?
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Ellenor Malik
really nothing, actually
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Ellenor Malik
> I wrote: > (not kidding) This was a lie.
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singpolyma
😂
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singpolyma
Certainly there's no client focussed on this use case. I think you need the old archiving xep to get good "mail folders" stuff also, at least if you want IMAP like sync. Of course nothing stops us from just using IMAP for that ;)
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Sam
IIRC the IRS does require regular public board meetings (but not weekly). I think it's at least quarterly, but don't hold me to that number.