XSF Discussion - 2022-07-27

  1. emus has left
  2. robertooo has left
  3. alex11 has left
  4. floretta has left
  5. floretta has joined
  6. Tobias has left
  7. jgart has joined
  8. Calvin has left
  9. stp has left
  10. Calvin has joined
  11. mjk has left
  12. mjk has joined
  13. Ingolf has joined
  14. Kev has joined
  15. wgreenhouse has left
  16. Patiga has left
  17. wgreenhouse has joined
  18. Menel has left
  19. xecks has joined
  20. Menel has joined
  21. Kev has left
  22. adiaholic has joined
  23. mp5 has joined
  24. Patiga has joined
  25. adiaholic has left
  26. xnamed has left
  27. millesimus has left
  28. millesimus has joined
  29. xnamed has joined
  30. Kev has joined
  31. Tobias has joined
  32. Sam has left
  33. gooya has left
  34. Steve Kille has left
  35. Kev has left
  36. Steve has joined
  37. Sam has joined
  38. Tobias has left
  39. Ray22 has joined
  40. alex11 has joined
  41. Menel has left
  42. Menel has joined
  43. mjk has left
  44. mjk has joined
  45. adiaholic has joined
  46. xnamed has left
  47. adiaholic has left
  48. Ray22 has left
  49. daags has left
  50. Kev has joined
  51. paul has left
  52. Patiga has left
  53. Sam has left
  54. Calvin has left
  55. sonny has left
  56. sonny has joined
  57. Kev has left
  58. Sam has joined
  59. Zash has left
  60. Kev has joined
  61. wgreenhouse has left
  62. wgreenhouse has joined
  63. Kev has left
  64. Yagiza has joined
  65. mh has left
  66. Paganini has left
  67. mh has joined
  68. Kev has joined
  69. harry837374884 has left
  70. rebeld22 has left
  71. adiaholic has joined
  72. Tobias has joined
  73. Kev has left
  74. harry837374884 has joined
  75. Tobias has left
  76. adiaholic has left
  77. adiaholic has joined
  78. Tobias has joined
  79. wladmis has left
  80. wladmis has joined
  81. mimi89999 has left
  82. mimi89999 has joined
  83. Kev has joined
  84. raghavgururajan has left
  85. wgreenhouse has left
  86. Tobias has left
  87. wgreenhouse has joined
  88. Tobias has joined
  89. xecks has left
  90. xecks has joined
  91. Kev has left
  92. Tobias has left
  93. Tobias has joined
  94. atomicwatch has joined
  95. adiaholic has left
  96. adiaholic has joined
  97. alex11 has left
  98. marc0s has left
  99. marc0s has joined
  100. adiaholic has left
  101. Kev has joined
  102. adiaholic has joined
  103. Sam has left
  104. harry837374884 has left
  105. Menel has left
  106. Menel has joined
  107. Patiga has joined
  108. kurisu has left
  109. kurisu has joined
  110. jgart has left
  111. Kev has left
  112. xecks has left
  113. xecks has joined
  114. marc0s has left
  115. napen123 has joined
  116. paul has joined
  117. marc0s has joined
  118. Sam has joined
  119. wgreenhouse has left
  120. harry837374884 has joined
  121. wgreenhouse has joined
  122. napen123 has left
  123. MSavoritias (fae,ve) has joined
  124. wurstsalat has joined
  125. edenist has left
  126. Sam has left
  127. edenist has joined
  128. wgreenhouse has left
  129. Patiga has left
  130. wgreenhouse has joined
  131. Kev has joined
  132. konstantinos has joined
  133. marc0s has left
  134. marc0s has joined
  135. adiaholic has left
  136. xecks has left
  137. xecks has joined
  138. adiaholic has joined
  139. edenist has left
  140. edenist has joined
  141. stp has joined
  142. marc0s has left
  143. marc0s has joined
  144. Kev has left
  145. edenist has left
  146. marc0s has left
  147. marc0s has joined
  148. edenist has joined
  149. marc0s has left
  150. marc0s has joined
  151. edenist has left
  152. edenist has joined
  153. marc0s has left
  154. marc0s has joined
  155. marc0s has left
  156. marc0s has joined
  157. marc0s has left
  158. marc0s has joined
  159. Mikaela has joined
  160. marc0s has left
  161. marc0s has joined
  162. karoshi has joined
  163. Kev has joined
  164. adiaholic has left
  165. mathijs has left
  166. jgart has joined
  167. emus has joined
  168. marc0s has left
  169. marc0s has joined
  170. mathijs has joined
  171. adiaholic has joined
  172. marc0s has left
  173. marc0s has joined
  174. marc0s has left
  175. marc0s has joined
  176. Alex has joined
  177. marc0s has left
  178. marc0s has joined
  179. marc0s has left
  180. marc0s has joined
  181. marc0s has left
  182. marc0s has joined
  183. jgart has left
  184. marc0s has left
  185. marc0s has joined
  186. marc0s has left
  187. marc0s has joined
  188. marc0s has left
  189. marc0s has joined
  190. lskdjf has joined
  191. debacle has joined
  192. L29Ah has left
  193. Kev has left
  194. marc0s has left
  195. marc0s has joined
  196. marc0s has left
  197. marc0s has joined
  198. marc0s has left
  199. marc0s has joined
  200. Patiga has joined
  201. marc0s has left
  202. marc0s has joined
  203. paul has left
  204. adiaholic has left
  205. adiaholic has joined
  206. Wojtek has joined
  207. SteveF has joined
  208. alex11 has joined
  209. alex11 has left
  210. alex11 has joined
  211. alex11 has left
  212. wgreenhouse has left
  213. FXTIA has left
  214. Titi has left
  215. wgreenhouse has joined
  216. Mikaela has left
  217. goffi has left
  218. FXTIA has joined
  219. Kev has joined
  220. Kev has left
  221. Sam has joined
  222. floretta has left
  223. floretta has joined
  224. Patiga has left
  225. adiaholic has left
  226. adiaholic has joined
  227. Wojtek has left
  228. adiaholic has left
  229. Mario Sabatino has joined
  230. goffi has joined
  231. atomicwatch has left
  232. adiaholic has joined
  233. Titi has joined
  234. paul has joined
  235. marc0s has left
  236. marc0s has joined
  237. Wojtek has joined
  238. Wojtek has left
  239. floretta has left
  240. floretta has joined
  241. robertooo has joined
  242. antranigv has joined
  243. Sam has left
  244. adiaholic has left
  245. edhelas https://media.ccc.de/v/mch2022-196-signal-you-were-the-chosen-one-
  246. adiaholic has joined
  247. Kev has joined
  248. edhelas And the HN thread
  249. atomicwatch has joined
  250. edhelas https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32244795
  251. L29Ah has joined
  252. Wojtek has joined
  253. Wojtek has left
  254. Wojtek has joined
  255. Wojtek has left
  256. Wojtek has joined
  257. Wojtek has left
  258. debacle has left
  259. adiaholic has left
  260. edenist has left
  261. adiaholic has joined
  262. edenist has joined
  263. adiaholic has left
  264. adiaholic has joined
  265. Apollo has left
  266. Apollo has joined
  267. Patiga has joined
  268. debacle has joined
  269. adiaholic has left
  270. floretta has left
  271. adiaholic has joined
  272. Dele Olajide has joined
  273. Sam has joined
  274. wgreenhouse has left
  275. wgreenhouse has joined
  276. goffi has left
  277. wgreenhouse has left
  278. wgreenhouse has joined
  279. Patiga has left
  280. antranigv has left
  281. antranigv has joined
  282. antranigv has left
  283. harry837374884 has left
  284. floretta has joined
  285. marc0s has left
  286. marc0s has joined
  287. marc0s has left
  288. edenist has left
  289. edenist has joined
  290. marc0s has joined
  291. adiaholic has left
  292. mp5 has left
  293. adiaholic has joined
  294. mp5 has joined
  295. marc0s has left
  296. mh has left
  297. marc0s has joined
  298. mh has joined
  299. adiaholic has left
  300. adiaholic has joined
  301. disgyze has left
  302. alex11 has joined
  303. atomicwatch has left
  304. wgreenhouse has left
  305. harry837374884 has joined
  306. wgreenhouse has joined
  307. atomicwatch has joined
  308. alex11 has left
  309. pasdesushi has left
  310. karoshi has left
  311. Sam has left
  312. karoshi has joined
  313. pasdesushi has joined
  314. antranigv has joined
  315. antranigv has left
  316. sebastian has left
  317. sebastian has joined
  318. goffi has joined
  319. atomicwatch has left
  320. Skull Fucker has left
  321. Skull Fucker has joined
  322. xnamed has joined
  323. atomicwatch has joined
  324. alex11 has joined
  325. alex11 has left
  326. harry837374884 has left
  327. papatutuwawa has joined
  328. antranigv has joined
  329. antranigv has left
  330. harry837374884 has joined
  331. adiaholic has left
  332. adiaholic has joined
  333. pasdesushi has left
  334. marc0s has left
  335. marc0s has joined
  336. xnamed has left
  337. xnamed has joined
  338. mjk has left
  339. adiaholic has left
  340. adiaholic has joined
  341. pasdesushi has joined
  342. Sam has joined
  343. atomicwatch has left
  344. Mikaela has joined
  345. Fishbowler has left
  346. Fishbowler has joined
  347. antranigv has joined
  348. goffi has left
  349. antranigv has left
  350. atomicwatch has joined
  351. gooya has joined
  352. Apollo has left
  353. alex11 has joined
  354. alex11 has left
  355. massivebox has joined
  356. massivebox has left
  357. massivebox has joined
  358. Apollo has joined
  359. marc0s has left
  360. marc0s has joined
  361. Sam has left
  362. Sam has joined
  363. alex11 has joined
  364. kujiu has left
  365. alex11 has left
  366. Skull Fucker has left
  367. antranigv has joined
  368. Skull Fucker has joined
  369. Wojtek has joined
  370. wgreenhouse has left
  371. Apollo has left
  372. Zash has joined
  373. alex11 has joined
  374. jjrh > We're trying to evolve and upgrade email to have the look and feel and features of a product like Signal
  375. derdaniel has joined
  376. wgreenhouse has joined
  377. jjrh I mean i'm all for a email client that does GPG well in a easy to understand way but I don't think that's what they are talking about.
  378. pasdesushi has left
  379. atomicwatch has left
  380. pasdesushi has joined
  381. marc0s has left
  382. marc0s has joined
  383. Wojtek has left
  384. mh has left
  385. marc0s has left
  386. marc0s has joined
  387. goffi has joined
  388. mh has joined
  389. antranigv has left
  390. Calvin has joined
  391. marc0s has left
  392. marc0s has joined
  393. mh has left
  394. pasdesushi has left
  395. pasdesushi has joined
  396. atomicwatch has joined
  397. Paganini has joined
  398. rebeld22 has joined
  399. chipmnk has left
  400. pasdesushi has left
  401. mh has joined
  402. Calvin has left
  403. Calvin has joined
  404. jjrh The big barrier of entry I have found with XMPP is there isn't a solid client I can recommend for every platform (Windows, Linux, OSX, ios, android)
  405. mjk has joined
  406. goffi jjrh: lot of client are done by single dev or small entities, and it's really complicated to target all platforms and make a good UX if you don't have a lot of developing resources.
  407. pasdesushi has joined
  408. mh has left
  409. goffi jjrh: Snikket is doing a neat job by working with existing well-established client (one per platform), and working on UX and interoperability
  410. goffi I'm currently testing it, it's really nice work.
  411. mh has joined
  412. jjrh goffi, oh 100% and gui stuff outside the web is just hard.
  413. jjrh I'd be interest in what Snikket suggests for IOS - every time I have tried to onboard someone on IOS it's been riddled with problems - and this is from technical users mostly.
  414. Link Mauve jjrh, a client called Snikket. :p
  415. Link Mauve The same name as the client on Android, but a different codebase.
  416. Link Mauve And it’s vetted to work against the server called Snikket.
  417. jjrh The code is fresh or a fork of something?
  418. kurisu has left
  419. jjrh ah based on siskin
  420. Link Mauve It’s a fork of Tigase’s SiskinIM.
  421. jjrh Does it do omemo?
  422. Link Mauve Yes.
  423. mh has left
  424. jjrh Maybe i'll suggest that to some coworkers - big issue I ran into was push notifications but I think I resolved that - wasn't loading the prosody module.
  425. mh has joined
  426. MattJ The Snikket apps are recommended for use with a Snikket server, otherwise you (server admin) needs to keep completely on top of required config on the server
  427. Link Mauve That won’t work as well with any random server as with the Snikket server, there are some non-standard extensions that are mostly missing standardisation so far.
  428. jjrh ah
  429. jjrh I'll have to take a closer look - what's the recommendation for OSX and windows?
  430. kurisu has joined
  431. Link Mauve Nothing yet, there are branded clients only for Android and iOS so far.
  432. MattJ See https://snikket.org/faq/#q-can-i-use-non-snikket-apps-to-connect-to-a-snikket-server
  433. jjrh Does the server install include a webclient?
  434. MattJ No, not currently
  435. MattJ It's on the roadmap
  436. jjrh Sounds like a great project that is tackling some of my grips with getting folks on XMPP
  437. kurisu has left
  438. adiaholic has left
  439. atomicwatch has left
  440. adiaholic has joined
  441. Sam has left
  442. marc0s has left
  443. atomicwatch has joined
  444. Menel has left
  445. Menel has joined
  446. Sam has joined
  447. chipmnk has joined
  448. marc0s has joined
  449. mh has left
  450. kurisu has joined
  451. harry837374884 has left
  452. harry837374884 has joined
  453. jjrh I remember a while back someone talking about writing a XEP to do something similar to what whatsapp, google sms messenger, etc does where when you want to use a browser (or app) to login you simply scan a QR code from your phone that is already authenticated. Did that ever happen or go anywhere?
  454. xecks has left
  455. mh has joined
  456. karoshi has left
  457. MattJ Yes, I got funding from NLnet to work on that: https://blog.prosody.im/modern-xmpp-auth/
  458. MattJ The first pieces will be merged into Prosody very soon
  459. karoshi has joined
  460. inky has left
  461. jjrh Very cool!
  462. xecks has joined
  463. inky has joined
  464. alex11 has left
  465. marc0s has left
  466. marc0s has joined
  467. wgreenhouse has left
  468. marc0s has left
  469. marc0s has joined
  470. wgreenhouse has joined
  471. flow what jjrh said!11 :)
  472. mh has left
  473. marc0s has left
  474. marc0s has joined
  475. Fishbowler has left
  476. Fishbowler has joined
  477. kurisu has left
  478. mh has joined
  479. kurisu has joined
  480. jjrh is the XSF summit for 2023 in person or online?
  481. antranigv has joined
  482. MattJ I would very much hope it will be in person
  483. jjrh Couldn't find any info on if fosdem was going to be in person yet
  484. MattJ Yeah, I think that will be a big factor. Even if FOSDEM is online (which I suspect is unlikely at this point) I would like to see the XSF organize one or more in-person events
  485. uhoreg has left
  486. Half-Shot has left
  487. homebeach has left
  488. Matthew has left
  489. Half-Shot has joined
  490. Matthew has joined
  491. homebeach has joined
  492. uhoreg has joined
  493. adiaholic has left
  494. mh has left
  495. xecks has left
  496. jjrh Might be interesting to have a XSF event before a IETF meeting.
  497. Zash Did someone say London in November?
  498. neshtaxmpp has left
  499. karoshi has left
  500. kurisu has left
  501. Ge0rG Isn't FOSDEM an event happening in Europe?
  502. mh has joined
  503. MattJ Ge0rG?
  504. Ge0rG MattJ: is it too early for brexit jokes?
  505. karoshi has joined
  506. MattJ Always
  507. Ge0rG sorry
  508. Zash https://www.ietf.org/how/meetings/upcoming/
  509. jjrh Might be really interesting to do London :)
  510. karoshi has left
  511. karoshi has joined
  512. alex11 has joined
  513. adiaholic has joined
  514. edhelas Damn, meetings are planned until 2028, that's some serious agenda :D
  515. alex11 has left
  516. jjrh Makes sense since you need to book the entire hotel.
  517. mh has left
  518. mh has joined
  519. moparisthebest Ge0rG, I thought it was too late for brexit jokes
  520. bung has joined
  521. Shackleton has joined
  522. kurisu has joined
  523. Shackleton has left
  524. Shackleton has joined
  525. Ge0rG moparisthebest: oh, they returned into the EU?
  526. Shackleton has left
  527. edhelas MattJ I'd be pleased to integrate those modern XMPP auth things in Movim !
  528. MattJ edhelas, excellent! I think Movim is a great candidate :)
  529. mh has left
  530. MattJ I'll let you know as soon as I have something for you to give feedback on and/or implement
  531. moparisthebest Ge0rG, nah just old news, it'd be like joking about how bad AOL instant messager is
  532. edhelas MattJ I'll try to have a look at the specs to see how difficult it can be. Maybe I can apply for a small NLNet fund for it ?
  533. Ray22 has joined
  534. mh has joined
  535. MattJ Worth asking :)
  536. emus Who would be responsible for XMPP Summit organisation?
  537. MattJ The SCAM team
  538. Alastair Hogge has left
  539. Shackleton has joined
  540. Shackleton has left
  541. mh has left
  542. pasdesushi has left
  543. xecks has joined
  544. mh has joined
  545. Matthew has left
  546. Half-Shot has left
  547. uhoreg has left
  548. homebeach has left
  549. Half-Shot has joined
  550. Matthew has joined
  551. homebeach has joined
  552. uhoreg has joined
  553. karoshi has left
  554. karoshi has joined
  555. Mikaela has left
  556. emus MattJ: Thanks, but SCAM Team is eager to do so and has the resources?
  557. Zash They have one job!
  558. edhelas SCAM Team Assemble !
  559. MattJ From my perspective, that team has been pretty inactive the past couple of years. I can't deny I'm disappointed that no attempt to replace the missed summits with anything was attempted. It's been a tough few years for sure, but other organizations managed it.
  560. pasdesushi has joined
  561. Tobias has left
  562. Tobias has joined
  563. Ge0rG So the SCAM turned out to be a scam?
  564. emus I think that could be a thing board could ask if they want to and if not, call for an organisation team
  565. Ge0rG 🤷
  566. sbach has left
  567. sbach has joined
  568. MattJ emus, part of board is part of SCAM, and I expressed my disappointment multiple times, but if nobody steps up (whether they are currently on SCAM or not) then expressing disappointment isn't going to change much :)
  569. Ge0rG maybe you need to write a strongly worded chat message
  570. arc has joined
  571. Guus Balls were dropped there, definitely. Apologies
  572. Guus That said, I have little energy to spare on SCAM for the time being
  573. Guus Reorganisation might be good
  574. harry837374884 has left
  575. Tobias has left
  576. Tobias has joined
  577. Tobias has left
  578. Tobias has joined
  579. marc0s has left
  580. marc0s has joined
  581. mjk has left
  582. neshtaxmpp has joined
  583. marc0s has left
  584. marc0s has joined
  585. Tobias has left
  586. Tobias has joined
  587. kurisu has left
  588. Tobias has left
  589. Tobias has joined
  590. adiaholic has left
  591. adiaholic has joined
  592. emus > Reorganisation might be good I think that would be the best thing. I think I support here and in a potential new SCAM team (maybe also a new name? 😊)
  593. debacle has left
  594. debacle has joined
  595. kurisu has joined
  596. adiaholic has left
  597. sbach has left
  598. sbach has joined
  599. adiaholic has joined
  600. mjk has joined
  601. marc0s has left
  602. marc0s has joined
  603. Dele Olajide has left
  604. MattJ ralphm, arc, jcbrand: dare I ask if anyone is here? :)
  605. ralphm Yes
  606. MattJ \o/
  607. MattJ Can we manage one more?
  608. ralphm bags gavel
  609. ralphm Bangs
  610. adiaholic has left
  611. ralphm 1. Welcome!
  612. ralphm Who do we have?
  613. MattJ o/
  614. arc Here
  615. massivebox has left
  616. chipmnk has left
  617. arc This is an hour before I thought we were meeting, but Im here
  618. chipmnk has joined
  619. ralphm It is 15:30 UTC?
  620. MattJ jcbrand already indicated he wouldn't be able to make it at this time
  621. marc0s has left
  622. marc0s has joined
  623. ralphm Ok, let's go then
  624. jcbrand Hi
  625. jcbrand I'm here
  626. MattJ Oh wow, excellent :)
  627. ralphm Woohoo
  628. ralphm Ok, so let's try to do every other week from September onwards?
  629. MattJ We can see how that goes
  630. ralphm Also, good to be back.
  631. arc Works for me, should I set my own calendar notification or will we do a global one?
  632. MattJ It's good to have you back :)
  633. adiaholic has joined
  634. ralphm I will, just as today, add it to the XSF calendar
  635. ralphm (the Google one)
  636. ralphm Shall I try this timeslot?
  637. neshtaxmpp has left
  638. arc This works for me. I thought it was an hour later, but this works better in case we run over 30 mins
  639. MattJ I can definitely make it work if this is okay for everyone else.
  640. ralphm Cool
  641. ralphm Anything else to note at this agenda item?
  642. ralphm In any case thanks Matt for getting this going
  643. MattJ Not from me. Sounds like we have a good plan.
  644. arc Actually where are we on employer stats?
  645. ralphm 2. XEP-0001 Archived state
  646. marc0s has left
  647. marc0s has joined
  648. MattJ As long as we have at least quarterly meetings (i.e. what's required by the bylaws) I'm good :)
  649. arc I don't need to know the statistics I'm just making sure someone's keeping track, because this was an issue a few years ago
  650. ralphm Alex generally monitors this, I think
  651. arc Mattj I believe annual meetings also work because I'm on a board for a few nonprofits that just do annual
  652. MattJ arc, the XSF bylaws require at least quarterly meetings of the board, but this is something that could be changed
  653. arc Ah, ok. Well, weekly is fine for me
  654. MattJ Personally I think monthly or quarterly would be generally adequate
  655. ralphm I don't think we need to change this
  656. mh has left
  657. gooya has left
  658. ralphm So I'll schedule it and see how that goes
  659. gooya has joined
  660. ralphm Now, on to 2?
  661. MattJ ralphm, my worry is that people can get burnt out and/or complacent with weekly (which is not common at all for org board meetings)
  662. MattJ But yep, let's see how it goes
  663. MattJ 2: I can say something
  664. mh has joined
  665. ralphm Go ahead
  666. mjk has left
  667. MattJ I don't see anything necessarily wrong with this, but I'd like to see if we can get some broader list discussion from the community rather than just a quiet PR to a XEP at the foundation of our process
  668. Zash ARTICLE V Section 5.3 > the Board of Directors shall hold regular meetings according to a schedule established by the Board of Directors, but not _less frequently than quarterly._
  669. MattJ If we agree on this, I'm happy to send such an email to spark discussion
  670. MattJ and then hopefully we can make a decision in +2w
  671. ralphm For sure we need some community input.
  672. ralphm What's Council's take?
  673. Titi has left
  674. jonas’ I am here
  675. jonas’ We haven't discussed it in our meeting today, but from my perspective as editor and council member (definitely not speaking for the entire group, because we haven't discussed it, as I mentioned), I'd appreciate community discussion first.
  676. jonas’ Though this PR is older than I expected
  677. MattJ cccccbctekgckcejgtnkfhljtknjdibhkciuugcbjejf
  678. jonas’ hello yubikey
  679. MattJ oops
  680. jonas’ I think we *did* have community discussion at or around June 23rd, 2021
  681. ralphm Hehe
  682. jonas’ which revises my take to "I need to review that discussion"
  683. ralphm Let's revive that then
  684. ralphm Reviewing previous feedback can be done in parallel
  685. mh has left
  686. ralphm 3. Aging Infra
  687. mjk has joined
  688. ralphm My take is: please just make a plan and execute. We have money and this is a good place to spend it.
  689. MattJ Ok, this is to highlight that we have critical services running on ancient hardware
  690. Ingolf has left
  691. mh has joined
  692. arc Who hosts us?
  693. ralphm I find it hard to pick if dedicated hardware or Cloud is better for our case, but don't think Board has to make that call. Our ED + iteam can do this just fine.
  694. adiaholic has left
  695. MattJ We should consider our DNS/mail server atlas, for example. We can purchase a replacement, seek a sponsor of newer hardware for the bunker, or even other hosting options or managed services
  696. MattJ I am very okay with moving to third-party hosted DNS. I'm less sure about mail
  697. jonas’ It would be nice if we could gain mailman3 eventually.
  698. marc0s has left
  699. marc0s has joined
  700. MattJ That's partly blocked by our old hardware
  701. MattJ Which is how this came up
  702. marc0s has left
  703. marc0s has joined
  704. ralphm Let's not have that discussion here. What's blocking you/team from making a plan and just doing it? How can we help unblock?
  705. MattJ I was hoping for some more input on the decisions :)
  706. Dele Olajide has joined
  707. marc0s has left
  708. mp5 has left
  709. mathijs has left
  710. marc0s has joined
  711. MattJ Especially as there are significant differences in them from the financial perspective
  712. arc Hardware so old it can't run Django?
  713. arc That would be extremely frightening. I can run Mailman 3 on a raspberry pi
  714. MattJ arc, we need to upgrade the OS, but at least one of our other servers won't boot newer kernels. We can risk an in-place upgrade of this server, but have no fallback if it goes bad.
  715. jonas’ arc, hardware so old that you don't get packaged mailman3.
  716. jonas’ you truly don't want to know ^_^
  717. arc Oh. That's different
  718. Calvin has left
  719. jonas’ MattJ, lacking board input, I propose we two as iteam members sit together and make a plan some time
  720. adiaholic has joined
  721. jonas’ or two plans
  722. jonas’ and offer them to board for decision
  723. MattJ Sure, okay
  724. ralphm Again, if you say it makes sense to buy new hardware, let's do so. But I'm equally ok with having a VM in some cloud provider. Yes, it will be more expensive. But let's do a calculation on that vs. effort and see if we can afford that. We might also get sponsors for that
  725. arc I have no strong opinion on this
  726. MattJ Right. We'll do as jonas’ suggested then, if nobody has an opinion or guidance at this stage.
  727. Tobias has left
  728. Tobias has joined
  729. ralphm I have plenty of opinions, but in general the answer is 'it depends' 🫤
  730. mathijs has joined
  731. ralphm So +1 on that suggestion
  732. arc Two plans sounds great, then we can feel like we're making a decision even though the decision will likely be obvious given the options
  733. arc +1
  734. MattJ :)
  735. Tobias has left
  736. ralphm We have plenty more on the agenda, but it looks like most of those could be done (initially?) on list?
  737. Tobias has joined
  738. adiaholic has left
  739. MattJ That's fine with me if we need to wrap up
  740. Calvin has joined
  741. arc Let's have something to discuss for next week
  742. arc I'm actually free for the next hour but I'm happy to keep these to 30 minutes
  743. ralphm I am not unfortunately, but can participate in email
  744. ralphm Or next week
  745. MattJ Next week or +2w? :)
  746. ralphm Ok, let's do +2W
  747. adiaholic has joined
  748. gooya has left
  749. gooya has joined
  750. MattJ Hmm, that's 10th August? I might actually be travelling that day
  751. MattJ I *could* do next week though
  752. Ingolf has joined
  753. ralphm Ok +1W
  754. ralphm Cya then
  755. ralphm Thanks all!
  756. nuron has left
  757. MattJ Thanks! I'll send minutes soon
  758. nuron has joined
  759. ralphm bangs gavel
  760. pasdesushi has left
  761. chipmnk has left
  762. chipmnk has joined
  763. raghavgururajan has joined
  764. jcbrand Sorry for the silence, I have another meeting running in parallel. I did read everything though
  765. Louis has left
  766. pasdesushi has joined
  767. MattJ No worries, thanks :)
  768. jcbrand Next week I'm on holiday, but I'll have my phone with my and will try to join
  769. jcbrand arc: my monthly holiday
  770. arc You Europeans and your monthly holidays lol
  771. arc I envy you
  772. sonny has left
  773. mh has left
  774. mh has joined
  775. eevvoor has left
  776. MSavoritias (fae,ve) has left
  777. atomicwatch has left
  778. SteveF has left
  779. pasdesushi has left
  780. MSavoritias (fae,ve) has joined
  781. adiaholic has left
  782. Steve has left
  783. pasdesushi has joined
  784. kurisu has left
  785. harry837374884 has joined
  786. adiaholic has joined
  787. coleman has left
  788. kurisu has joined
  789. Sam has left
  790. Sam has joined
  791. marc0s has left
  792. marc0s has joined
  793. atomicwatch has joined
  794. Sam has left
  795. sonny has joined
  796. Sam has joined
  797. kurisu has left
  798. adiaholic has left
  799. atomicwatch has left
  800. papatutuwawa has left
  801. atomicwatch has joined
  802. kurisu has joined
  803. Ray22 has left
  804. kurisu has left
  805. Tobias has left
  806. adiaholic has joined
  807. Tobias has joined
  808. emus > ralphm wrote: > My take is: please just make a plan and execute. We have money and this is a good place to spend it. 👍
  809. Fishbowler has left
  810. Fishbowler has joined
  811. emus > jonas’ wrote: > It would be nice if we could gain mailman3 eventually. +1
  812. emus > MattJ wrote: > That's partly blocked by our old hardware > Which is how this came up oh, ok I see
  813. Zash Just Do It!
  814. Mikaela has joined
  815. kurisu has joined
  816. emus > MattJ wrote: > Right. We'll do as jonas’ suggested then, if nobody has an opinion or guidance at this stage. I prefer not cloud, but I am also the one with fewest knowledge here 🤷🏻‍♂️ In any way, if I can support this let me know. Besides, I was think of a general survey with xsf members. the hardware and service infrastructure could be one topic. but this is maybe overkill for this decision (but generally speaking good IMO)
  817. papatutuwawa has joined
  818. emus jcbrand: but do you have an opinion on the hardware stuff? MattJ: singpolyma might support with the hardware/hosting question, too (if you want more opinion) maybe a mail to members could give you an impression too. Happy to support again
  819. kurisu has left
  820. moparisthebest the only opinions that matter are the people actually supporting it, I wouldn't ask anyone else's opinion, at least broadly like that
  821. Zash Let's build a 300 node raspberry pi k8s cluster!!!!11!eleven /s
  822. Guus Cloud-based infra might give is more access / reduce dependency on the one person that has physical access, and will have less upfront costs. It tends to be more flexible, for what it's worth, with regards to resizing, and it can be more fault tolerant (assuming the cloud provider replaces broken instances automatically).
  823. kurisu has joined
  824. Zash But email?
  825. Guus But email.
  826. Zash Hm, but email is probably orthogonal.
  827. marc0s has left
  828. marc0s has joined
  829. Kev We know we've had basically no issue with mail from the bunker, my inclination would be to just replace atlas with another low-power server in the bunker and be done with it. Path of least resistance.
  830. Guus Generally speaking, I'd be in favour of outsourcing anything that we reasonably can to people dedicated to the service to be maintained. They probably have better qualifications and tooling, and it frees up our most scarce resource: brainpower.
  831. mh has left
  832. floretta has left
  833. marc0s has left
  834. marc0s has joined
  835. marc0s has left
  836. marc0s has joined
  837. mh has joined
  838. MSavoritias (fae,ve) has left
  839. MSavoritias (fae,ve) has joined
  840. floretta has joined
  841. Sam has left
  842. emus MattJ Zash: Whats your gut feeling what go for?
  843. Zash 🤷️
  844. Zash Pancakes I think
  845. Sam has joined
  846. marc0s has left
  847. marc0s has joined
  848. Dele Olajide has left
  849. marc0s has left
  850. marc0s has joined
  851. marc0s has left
  852. marc0s has joined
  853. emus Guus: I would also not go against even its not my prefered solution. The only thing I expect is respect to privacy of the setup
  854. Zash For running public mailing lists?
  855. Titi has joined
  856. Matthew has left
  857. Half-Shot has left
  858. uhoreg has left
  859. homebeach has left
  860. Half-Shot has joined
  861. Matthew has joined
  862. homebeach has joined
  863. uhoreg has joined
  864. debacle has left
  865. antranigv has left
  866. antranigv has joined
  867. antranigv has left
  868. antranigv has joined
  869. antranigv has left
  870. emus Zash: wouldnt be only public right? maybe then we can also.have member mails etc.? and would you like to have a service full of tracking?
  871. neshtaxmpp has joined
  872. emus (not that I expect anyone.here will go for something like.this)
  873. MattJ There are private mailing lists and subscribers who join may not want to publicly disclose their subscription status (I don't know if this is a property that mailman has or not)
  874. moparisthebest what are we trying to protect against exactly? email isn't very private
  875. marc0s has left
  876. neshtaxmpp has left
  877. marc0s has joined
  878. emus moparisthebest: at least tracking and ReCaptcha for subscription 😊
  879. singpolyma Can always just run your own subscription form with almost any mail provider. What kind of server used, or even full cloud services, isn't going to mandate any of that kind of tracking
  880. adiaholic has left
  881. Calvin has left
  882. wgreenhouse has left
  883. mathijs has left
  884. mathijs has joined
  885. adiaholic has joined
  886. wgreenhouse has joined
  887. neshtaxmpp has joined
  888. emus ok
  889. adiaholic has left
  890. Titi has left
  891. goffi has left
  892. karoshi has left
  893. karoshi has joined
  894. goffi has joined
  895. xnamed has left
  896. adiaholic has joined
  897. Louis has joined
  898. marc0s has left
  899. marc0s has joined
  900. adiaholic has left
  901. Sam has left
  902. Sam has joined
  903. alex11 has joined
  904. alex11 has left
  905. goffi has left
  906. xnamed has joined
  907. adiaholic has joined
  908. pablo has joined
  909. antranigv has joined
  910. Sam has left
  911. Sam has joined
  912. adiaholic has left
  913. derdaniel has left
  914. pablo has left
  915. floretta has left
  916. Calvin has joined
  917. chipmnk has left
  918. chipmnk has joined
  919. marc0s has left
  920. marc0s has joined
  921. marc0s has left
  922. marc0s has joined
  923. floretta has joined
  924. sbach has left
  925. sbach has joined
  926. antranigv has left
  927. antranigv has joined
  928. antranigv has left
  929. marc0s has left
  930. marc0s has joined
  931. sbach has left
  932. sbach has joined
  933. marc0s has left
  934. marc0s has joined
  935. marc0s has left
  936. marc0s has joined
  937. marc0s has left
  938. marc0s has joined
  939. Tobias has left
  940. marc0s has left
  941. marc0s has joined
  942. marc0s has left
  943. marc0s has joined
  944. sbach has left
  945. sbach has joined
  946. Tobias has joined
  947. Tobias has left
  948. Tobias has joined
  949. sbach has left
  950. sbach has joined
  951. Tobias has left
  952. mathijs has left
  953. mathijs has joined
  954. Tobias has joined
  955. alex11 has joined
  956. gooya has left
  957. gooya has joined
  958. harry837374884 has left
  959. Apollo has joined
  960. wgreenhouse has left
  961. goffi has joined
  962. wgreenhouse has joined
  963. Matthew has left
  964. uhoreg has left
  965. Half-Shot has left
  966. homebeach has left
  967. Half-Shot has joined
  968. Matthew has joined
  969. homebeach has joined
  970. uhoreg has joined
  971. karoshi has left
  972. karoshi has joined
  973. Tobias has left
  974. Tobias has joined
  975. mathijs has left
  976. Titi has joined
  977. adiaholic has joined
  978. mathijs has joined
  979. floretta has left
  980. krauq has left
  981. arc has left
  982. arc has joined
  983. krauq has joined
  984. floretta has joined
  985. mathijs has left
  986. adiaholic has left
  987. marc0s has left
  988. marc0s has joined
  989. mathijs has joined
  990. kurisu has left
  991. Steve has joined
  992. kurisu has joined
  993. marc0s has left
  994. marc0s has joined
  995. Skull Fucker has left
  996. Dele Olajide has joined
  997. Dele Olajide has left
  998. wladmis has left
  999. coleman has joined
  1000. papatutuwawa has left
  1001. wladmis has joined
  1002. Skull Fucker has joined
  1003. pablo has joined
  1004. Calvin has left
  1005. pablo has left
  1006. Mikaela has left
  1007. antranigv has joined
  1008. antranigv has left
  1009. antranigv has joined
  1010. Tobias has left
  1011. neshtaxmpp has left
  1012. antranigv has left
  1013. neshtaxmpp has joined
  1014. konstantinos has left
  1015. arc has left
  1016. arc has joined
  1017. mp5 has joined
  1018. atomicwatch has left
  1019. bung has left
  1020. floretta has left
  1021. floretta has joined
  1022. marc0s has left
  1023. Yagiza has left
  1024. Calvin has joined
  1025. wgreenhouse has left
  1026. wgreenhouse has joined
  1027. Alacer_dsrt has joined
  1028. Alacer_dsrt has left
  1029. mathijs has left
  1030. adiaholic has joined
  1031. marc0s has left
  1032. marc0s has joined
  1033. arc has left
  1034. arc has joined
  1035. atomicwatch has joined
  1036. adiaholic has left
  1037. Zash has left
  1038. Zash has joined
  1039. wgreenhouse has left
  1040. marc0s has left
  1041. marc0s has joined
  1042. wgreenhouse has joined
  1043. kujiu has joined
  1044. floretta has left
  1045. Tobias has joined
  1046. stp has left
  1047. floretta has joined
  1048. wgreenhouse has left
  1049. wgreenhouse has joined
  1050. Patiga has joined
  1051. karoshi has left
  1052. mathijs has joined
  1053. wurstsalat has left
  1054. marc0s has left
  1055. marc0s has joined
  1056. Patiga has left
  1057. Patiga has joined
  1058. lskdjf has left
  1059. mp5 has left
  1060. atomicwatch has left
  1061. floretta has left
  1062. xnamed has left
  1063. lovetox has left
  1064. floretta has joined
  1065. Kev has left
  1066. arc has left
  1067. arc has joined
  1068. lovetox has joined
  1069. jcbrand has left
  1070. Kev has joined
  1071. mp5 has joined
  1072. Calvin has left
  1073. Patiga has left
  1074. atomicwatch has joined
  1075. Alex has left
  1076. pasdesushi has left
  1077. Calvin has joined
  1078. arc has left
  1079. arc has joined