a probably very stupid question. looking at https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-schmaus-kitten-sasl-ht-07
what does `initiator-hashed-token := HMAC(token, "Initiator" || cb-data)` mean?
|| is a concatination so the bytes for cb-data the string "Initiator" are just added to the bytes of "Initiator" - but what does `token,` mean? isn’t that another concatination?
or in other words what is the difference between` token || "Initiatior" || cb-data` and `token, "Initiatior", cb-data`
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Zash
HMAC takes a key and a message
Zash
So, one is `token`, the other is `"Initiator" || cb-data`. Good luck guessing which is which! :)
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Daniel
oh ok. I thought it's just hash(…)
Zash
No, it's two hashes in series with some padding and stuff.
Daniel
but yeah that makes sense. thank you
Zash
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hmac#Definition but your crypto library really should provide it
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goffi
Hi. What would be the recommanded image format nowadays in a XEP for lossy compression of images (mostly photos)? I'm thinking mostly about patent issues. Is JPEG OK to use? WebP?
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Link Mauve
goffi, JPEG is still the only one with widespread support sadly. :(
Link Mauve
WebP is often not an improvement over JPEG, and then you have formats like AVIF which are, but with exactly no support on mobile.
Link Mauve
There are JPEG features you should avoid if you’re worried about patents, but most implementations don’t support them anyway, so if you stay with JPEG Baseline you’re good.
goffi
Alright, thanks Link Mauve
Link Mauve
If you know your recipient is on either Windows or Linux, AVIF is an option.
Link Mauve
Otherwise, use JPEG.
goffi
Link Mauve: it's for a protoXEP, thus is should be available on as most plateform as possible, thus I'll go with JPEG
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singpolyma
JPEG for photo for sure I think. WebP for everything else (stickers, animations, etc)
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Link Mauve
I think most Linux distributions still don’t ship with WebP support out of the box.
Link Mauve
I’d recommend PNG and GIF instead, if you want widespread support.
moparisthebest
It's ok Linux users are used to things being broken until they install the right stuff :D
singpolyma
I mean, WebP works in Firefox on Debian Stable
singpolyma
it's not exactly new
singpolyma
PNG can't animate, APNG never got good support, and GIF looks like garbage, so for animations especially WebP is very nice
Link Mauve
singpolyma, Firefox uses it explicitly, but most XMPP clients (AFAIK) are not web clients.
Link Mauve
singpolyma, for large animations you want a video format anyway.
singpolyma
Sure, the clients may need to add support, will depend on how they are rendering images etc
singpolyma
WebP *is* a video format, luckily :)
Link Mauve
Actually no.
moparisthebest
What linux desktop client supports inline gif even?
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singpolyma
moparisthebest: I'm not aware of one
Link Mauve
It’s using VP8 for its lossy compression, but only supports keyframes so you will get much bigger files if only small parts change frame-to-frame.
Link Mauve
moparisthebest, any based on GTK I think?
moparisthebest
Not Dino I think
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trung.fun
last time I checked, Dino 0.3 use VP8
Link Mauve
trung.fun, video calls in Dino go through Gstreamer, while image decoding goes through gdk-pixbuf.
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Link Mauve
Two different libraries with different support for different formats.
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larma
Dino supports gif fine, it just restricts itself to displaying the first frame only. Same for all other animated image formats that gdk pixbuf supports.
larma
pixbuf does support animated images, but who would want those to be actually animated?
Link Mauve
<3
edhelas
👀
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larma
Also, for anything that is not a video, just use animated svg please! Much smaller files and even scale perfectly to every screen resolution and hidpi devices
Link Mauve
Yes!
Link Mauve
Also, mobile client devs, please add support.
edhelas
<iframe> is what you're looking for, with animated CSS
larma
I can do css animations on svg without iframes
larma
that's how all animations in gtk are done already 🙂
singpolyma
I'd be happy to use animated SVG if I'm authoring something new, just depends on the kind of content
edhelas
One of the issue that I have with stickers and animated stickers is more getting nice content for me, so finding artists that can craft content that I can package in my client
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Zash
This is why stickers must come in packs from a sticker store where you buy them so you can pay the artists!!
Zash
Thus we must launch XMPPCoin!
singpolyma
I'm happy to pay the artist, but yeah there's so many sticker images around on the web I'm not sure if making more is the priority? But I guess it all depends on users and what they need
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Link Mauve
I’d really like to have a sticker pack using animated SVG, but almost all of my contacts are using Android which doesn’t support this format. :(
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Link Mauve
It doesn’t even support normal SVG, not even SVG Tiny…
singpolyma
there are libraries for it I'm sure
Link Mauve
Sure, but how many additional MiB are you ready to ship with your application?
Zash
Just ship a full browser!
Link Mauve
For such a fringe feature, which is fringe because you don’t.
trung.fun
> Two different libraries with different support for different formats.
I don't know what it does underneath, but it takes nearly half a minute to launch.
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trung.fun
Guys, if u want wide adoption as quickly as u can, stick with jpeg, png and gif. You can come back and upgrade all them codec later. (I would be quite impressed if you make a client that has support for Apple Prores444 but hey)
Anyway, I think lets not create more issues for the people who want to try xmpp for the first time.
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singpolyma
edhelas: do you have ideas of stickers you'd like to see, or you just want to hand a budget to an artist and ask them to go nuts?
The sticker XEP opts for a kind of distributed sticker storage fed by the users… so, if that's supported, you just scrape signalstickers.com (they have a python library), and unleash Sticker Hell™️.
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singpolyma
millesimus: yes, for sure. lots of places we can get them from
singpolyma
on android the users can also get sticker packs right in their keyboard
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millesimus
Iirc, Samsung allows you to combine emojis to create stickers. Quite funny.