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edhelas
So I'm bringing back 0080 support in Movim :) 8 years old code to resurrect
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emus
edhelas: 👍
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wurstsalat
> So I'm bringing back 0080 support in Movim :) 8 years old code to resurrect that's a XEP I'd really like to see in Conversations as well. static geo:-URIs are not the same :)
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edhelas
The XEP is actually pretty good :)
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edhelas
Maybe having a small update for privacy handling (whitelisting JIDs) could be interesting
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edhelas
Would be fun to have locations event in MUC as well :p
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emus
Maybe Monal devs could also have a word on the xep improvements
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emus
> edhelas: > 2022-09-18 06:58 (GMT+02:00) > Would be fun to have locations event in MUC as well :p ouh yes
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edhelas
Then you could embed a minimap and follow friends, when going to a convention for example
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edhelas
Or start a hide&seek game :D
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singpolyma
edhelas: it's pep right? So if you want to whitelist you just set a whitelist on the pep node?
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edhelas
singpolyma yes :) but talking about it in the XEP might help
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edhelas
sharing location can bring big privacy issues, not the same thing as Mood or Tune for example
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singpolyma
Just like a one line "note you may wish to set the pep node to whitelist security" just in case the reader is unaware of the options?
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edhelas
Dunno, I'll see where I'm going with it
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MattJ
As usual with reusing generic mechanisms to fulfil specific tasks, you'll want to look at edge cases, such as what happens if a client forgets about an ongoing sharing activity. You might want to bake some TTL and/or "sharing ended" into the protocol.
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wurstsalat
"share my location for 30 min" is an option seen in many IM clients
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lovetox
MattJ this exists already natively in PubSub
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lovetox
but nobody implements it, and thats sad
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lovetox
pubsub#item_expire
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lovetox
this would be so useful for data which are only valid for a small duration
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MattJ
Maybe it's time to change that? :)
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lovetox
tune, location and a future status xep
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lovetox
check your issue tracker :D
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edhelas
pubsub#item_expire damnit :D
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MattJ
Okay, it's only been open 2 years :)
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lovetox
yeah thats recent, i have issue on the Gajim tracker from Zash which are 10 years old 🤤
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edhelas
Again the prophecy is right, 0060 is magically adding feature each time you have a look at it
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mdosch
Wasn't the prophecy about 0045?
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Zash
Both.
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edhelas
I heard some found pieces of 0045 in 0060
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Zash
They have both reached the critical size where they start growing by themselves.
- Maranda heard XEP-0045 was going to be replaced by XEP-0060 🤔
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edhelas
I have mixed feeling about that 🤔
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Maranda
indeed.
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Maranda
although I think I have enough proof of fact that with a few rooms with 500+ occupants, MUC *can* _indeedly_ cause server detonation now 🤭
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guus.der.kinderen
"each of our clients joins 5000 rooms. Why is it slow?" <-- last week
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edhelas
"We have 5000 rooms. Why is it slow?" <-- Matrix client admin
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edhelas
*server
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guus.der.kinderen
Oh no, these had 150.000+
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Maranda
150000 ...rooms?
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edhelas
It's over 9000
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Maranda
🤔
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guus.der.kinderen
> 150000 ...rooms? Yes, to get started
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mdosch
Wow.
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Zash
Let me tell you about dunbar numbers.
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MattJ
guus.der.kinderen, a very similar example is why I worked on XEP-0437
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guus.der.kinderen
Which is what I am implementing next...
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guus.der.kinderen
Thank you for that. ☺️
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MattJ
Because, yes, as Zash rightly points out - whether you "join" 5000 rooms or not is irrelevant, people in reality will only interact with 5 on average
- Maranda thinks that still the traffic generated by 150000 with 1-2 occupants is far less by a few with 500-10000
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Maranda
And it's mostly passive traffic, so not generated by actual interaction either
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Zash
Maybe we should investigate more into cutting down noise from joins, parts, random presence in public chats. It does seems like a multiplier, especially when we have the same 20 people in 20 rooms...
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Maranda
(And surprisingly the killing factor is actually IQs and not presences)
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Zash
disco?
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Zash
Disco can be cached closer to the requesting client.
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Maranda
Disco, vCard fetching (💥), last Activity, version ... <Inserti payload>✎ -
Maranda
Disco, vCard fetching (💥), last Activity, version ... <Insert payload> ✏
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Maranda
Clients tend asking a lot of stuff to newcomers, a bit less after
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Maranda
And most clients don't just lazy load the occupants roster, so they just queue alle the IQs on a first join stalling as well and blocking
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Zash
Could have a disco cache in the MUC itself. Avatars, I'd like to see something like that image hash thing, ie squeeze a in a very small version of the image into presence directly (like max 8x8px), then lazy-load the real avatars.
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Zash
and who uses last activity today???
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Maranda
> <Zash> and who uses last activity today??? 😅
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lovetox
Gajim did this for a long time
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lovetox
queuing multiple IQs for every participant
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lovetox
rather not queuing, i mean we just sent it out
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lovetox
now we really queue it and send one per second or something
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lovetox
but this means it needs a lot of time until you have everything, but i guess avatars are not that important
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singpolyma
Should be on the server to slow it down if needed not the client. Though client may also need to throttle to remain performant in some cases I guess
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Link Mauve
Zash, I already started working on that very small avatar thingy, fyi.
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Link Mauve
I already have some code for that in a branch of roezio.
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singpolyma
How small is very small?
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Link Mauve
A few blocks of BC7 at most.
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Link Mauve
Something which can fit in a few hundreds bytes of base64 at most.
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Link Mauve
One block (4×4) is 16 bytes, so about 22 bytes after base64.
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Link Mauve
If you want to go 8×8 like Zash suggested, that’s 64 bytes, or 86 bytes of base64.
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Zash
I'm mostly thinking 8×8 as an upper limit
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singpolyma
So 8x8 pixels?
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Link Mauve
I’m writing the protocol (in the future) and two implementations (one in a client and one in Prosody (that one is in the future too)), admins will be able to configure that upper limit obviously.
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Link Mauve
roezio renewed my motivation lately (thanks pep.!), but that’s based on some old discussion already.